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America's Best Colleges 2008 - Forbes.com

http://www.forbes.com/opinions/2008/08/13/college-university-rankings-oped-college08-cx_rv_mn_0813intro.html

America's Best Colleges sorted by Rank - Forbes.com

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/94/opinions_college08_Americas-Best-Colleges_Rank.html

Americas Best Colleges: #1 Princeton University - Forbes.com

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/94/opinions_college08_Princeton-University_94312.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10077527)

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=845208&mc=18&forum_id=1

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10077846)

I'm sure your rebuttle is going to destroy this:

http://tinyurl.com/6hm98o

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10080051)

America's Best Colleges 2008

Richard Vedder and Michael Noer 08.13.08, 6:00 PM ET

Competition is good.

Choosing a four-year undergraduate college is one of the biggest decisions a typical American family can make. And for too many years, information about the quality of American higher education has been monopolized by one publication, U.S. News & World Report.

We offer an alternative.

In conjunction with Dr. Richard Vedder, an economist at Ohio University, and the Center for College Affordability and Productivity, Forbes.com inaugurates its first ranking of America's Best Colleges, an annual list. In this report, the CCAP ranks 569 undergraduate institutions based on the quality of the education they provide, and how much their students achieve.

The best school in the nation? Princeton University, followed closely by the California Institute of Technology, Harvard, Swarthmore and Williams. The U.S. Military Academy at West Point came in sixth on our rankings, spearheading a generally strong showing by all the service academies.

CCAP's methodology attempts to put itself in a student's shoes. How good will my professors be? Will the school help me achieve notable career success? If I have to borrow to pay for college, how deeply will I go into debt? What are the chances I will graduate in four years? Are students and faculty recognized nationally, or even globally?

To answer these questions, the staff at CCAP (mostly college students themselves) gathered data from a variety of sources. They based 25% of the rankings on 7 million student evaluations of courses and instructors, as recorded on the Web site RateMyProfessors.com. Another 25% depends on how many of the school's alumni, adjusted for enrollment, are listed among the notable people in Who's Who in America.

The other half of the ranking is based equally on three factors: the average amount of student debt at graduation held by those who borrowed; the percentage of students graduating in four years; and the number of students or faculty, adjusted for enrollment, who have won nationally competitive awards like Rhodes Scholarships or Nobel Prizes. (Click here for complete methodology.)

The data show that students strongly prefer smaller schools to big ones. The median undergraduate enrollment in the top-50-ranked schools is just 2,285, and only one of the top 50 (the University of Virginia) has more than 10,000 undergraduate students.

Generally speaking, big state schools performed poorly: the University of Wisconsin, Madison, ranked 335th; the University of Texas, Austin, 215th; and the University of Minnesota 524th. California public schools scored relatively well, with the flagship Berkeley campus coming in 73rd place.

Small liberal arts schools shine in our rankings, probably due to both the quality of their faculty and the personal attention they can provide. Williams and Swarthmore both rank in the top five, while Pomona, Smith, Middlebury and Amherst all come in the top 20, ahead of such schools as Stanford (23rd) and Brown (27th).

Several relatively unknown schools do surprisingly well in our rankings. Wabash College, a tiny, all-male school located in Crawfordsville, Ind., ranks 12th on our list, and Centre College, a highly regarded liberal arts school in Danville, Ky., ranks 13th. With an entering class of just 250 freshmen, Wabash benefits from both high student satisfaction with their courses and lots of graduates who received distinctions in their post-collegiate careers. Centre was in the top 10% of schools on all criteria.

There were some interesting regional surprises. In North Carolina, Duke University ranked in 80th place, behind both the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, (66th) and Wake Forest (69th). Northwestern (11th) was the top school in the Midwest, beating out regional powerhouses like the University of Chicago (18th), Notre Dame (77th) and Washington University in St. Louis (146th).

The list also suggests that some schools--the University of Pennsylvania (61st), Georgetown (76th), Cornell (121st) and Dartmouth (127th)--may be living a bit off of their reputations. Graduates of these schools typically ran up large debts; at most of them, notably Dartmouth, students are not particularly happy with the quality of instruction. (CCAP did take perceived course rigor into account while determining student assessment of instructors and courses.)

It is important to remember that if a school appears on this list at all, that indicates it meets a certain level of quality. In other words, the Milwaukee School of Engineering (569th) is by no means the worst school in the nation. According to the U.S. Department of Education, there are more than 4,000 college campuses in the U.S. The CCAP ranks only the top 15% or so of all undergraduate institutions.

Some schools refuse to cooperate with any publication ranking colleges. CCAP ranked them anyway. Sarah Lawrence, which traditionally has remained "unranked," comes in 25th on the list.

Unlike other lists, the CCAP doesn't subdivide its rankings into categories like "National Research Institution" or "Liberal Arts Colleges." When choosing a college, prospective students ultimately select only one, meaning that all undergraduate institutions are competing with one another for students. It is not as though a high school senior selects one large, public school and one small, private school. The senior picks only one, and our ranking reflects that decision process.

Admittedly, there is an inherent absurdity in ranking colleges and universities with mock precision from first to 569th. The sort of student who will thrive at Williams might drown at Caltech, to say nothing of West Point. And it is possible to get a "Harvard" education at the University of Minnesota, just as it possible to get a "University of Minnesota" education at Harvard. When choosing a school, it is important to match the student to the school.

Nonetheless, we believe that these rankings reflect, in a very real way, the quality and cost of an undergraduate education at a wide range of American colleges and universities. And when families have to make a decision with a six-figure price tag and lifelong impact, we think they deserve all the information they can get.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10078822)

But wait:

"Based on the most recent data available from [Consortium on Financing Higher Education’s] survey of the Class of 2006, 96.4 percent of Dartmouth graduates were very or generally satisfied with the quality of instruction at Dartmouth; 97.8 percent were very or generally satisfied with the out-of-class availability of faculty, and 92 percent were overall satisfied with their undergraduate experience".

Forbes should be ashamed of themselves.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10081501)

http://thedartmouth.com/2008/08/15/news/forbes/

LOL.

Distortion, creating false posts, where does it all end with you!! Dartmouth was ranked 127th. Deal with it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10081530)

FORBES JOINS THE COLLEGE RANKINGS GAME (August 14)

Forbes, the venerable journal of the business world, today unveiled its own ranking of colleges and universities. It claims to do so "from the student's point of view" and says its rankings are based on quality of education and how much students achieve.

"Competition is good," the magazine announced.

"Choosing a four-year undergraduate college is one of the biggest decisions a typical American family can make. And for too many years, information about the quality of American higher education has been monopolized by one publication, U.S. News & World Report.

"We offer an alternative."

Forbes made its choices in consultation with Richard Vedder, economics professor at Ohio University and visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, D.C. Vedder researches and writes often about higher education, among other issues.

Forbes' Top Five: Princeton University, California Institute of Technology, Harvard University, Swarthmore College and Williams College. Forbes also likes the military academies -- the U.S. Military Academy at West Point came in sixth.

The magazine also includes what it calls a "list of surprises," where it makes clear that it doesn't necessarily subscribe to traditional opinion. Example: Carnegie Mellon University of Pittsburgh is generally regarded as an excellent school, especially for science and math. Forbes is not that impressed, ranking it No. 266. Ivy Leaguers Cornell and Dartmouth only scored 121 and 127 respectively, from Forbes, while the University of Michigan, considered a "Public Ivy," ranked 161.

http://www.hewi.net/news/news.asp?Type=Colleges

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10081565)

Again, you completely miss the underlying point; they claim to represent student opinions, but, as I have shown, they completely ignore the students' point of view (96% approval of instruction at Dartmouth is an example). How in the world can they claim to represent the students if they ignore a simple satisfaction survey? They can't.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10081717)

Ouch, the envy here stings!!!

2008 US News Rankings with Changes

2008 Rankings with Changes (below)

National Rank / School / Peer Assessment Score

1 Princeton , 4.9

2 Harvard , 4.9

3 Yale , 4.8

4 Stanford , 4.9

5 U Penn , 4.5

5 Caltech , 4.7

7 MIT , 4.9

8 Duke , 4.4

9 Columbia , 4.6

9 U Chicago , 4.6

11 Dartmouth , 4.3

12 Wash U , 4.1

12 Cornell , 4.6

14 Brown , 4.4

14 Northwestern , 4.3

14 Johns Hopkins , 4.6

17 Rice , 4

17 Emory , 4

19 Vanderbilt , 4

19 Notre Dame , 3.9

Year to year change:

School, Ranking Change, PA score change

Princeton , 0 , 0

Harvard , 0 , 0

Yale , 0 , -0.1

Cal Tech , -1 , 0

Stanford , 0 , 0

MIT , -3 , 0

U Penn , 2 , 0

Duke , 0 , -0.1

U Chicago , 0 , -0.1

Dartmouth , -2 , -0.1

Columbia , 0 , 0

Wash U StL , 0 , 0

Cornell , 0 , 0

Northwestern , 0 , 0

Brown , 1 , 0

J Hopkins , 2 , 0

Rice , 0 , -0.1

Emory , 1 , 0

Vanderbilt , -1 , -0.1

Notre Dame , 1 , 0

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10078829)

The Forbes uses criteria such as "debt at graduation". That has nothing to do with how good a school is, as I'm sure you will agree. They just want to seem competitive.

Fun fact for you, DMD11:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/07/30/college-salary-graduates-lead-cz_kb_0730topcolleges.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10078879)

Date: June 25th, 2008 6:22 PM

Author: sferret

This columbia kid has a serious chip on his shoulder.

As someone who has experienced Dartmouth's alumni network (and I'm only a sophomore at DC), I'll tell you that I have absolutely no concerns about finding a high paying job after college. The alumni network is among the best in the country, mainly because the alumni are so enthusiastic about the school (second highest giving % in the league).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10078962)

Author: IvyWise

Yes, I am DMD11 and DarkKnight, but Princeton is still the UNDISPUTED CHAMPION.

We all know who you are.

You have yet to address the fact that the Forbes rankings are based on BS criteria, as any unbiased source will tell you. Example: Alumni on the "Who's Who" list is a criteria. As I said, BS.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10079189)

http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=829053&forum_id=1#9920327

Both you and Patriot seem to employ the classic tactic of attacking the messenger when you don't like the message. I would rather put my faith and trust in one of America's most respected business journals (Forbes) than the opinion of a sophmore at the nation's 127th ranked school.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/94/opinions_college08_Americas-Best-Colleges_Rank_6.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10079486)

And we make the most of all college alumni, a measure that actually matters.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10079920)

Not that there is any doubt that DarkKnight is in fact DMD11, IvyWise, CommodoreLanzky, deller, and the other troll aliases.

Did you notice how the Princeton fanatic is now taking the persona of a Princeton grad superhero? LOL maybe he really thinks he is Batman and went to Princeton.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10079535)

1. sferret's 2006 posting was fraudulent

2. Batman (Bruce Wayne) did attend Princeton

On all other matters, you are both wrong and lacking in proof (but as with sferret and Patriot, I am sure that won't stop you!)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10079673)

No wonder you and sferret are making wild, unsubstantiated and fraudulent accusations.

Look, your schools were downgraded and exposed long before the Forbes ranking. Forbes merely acknowledged what already existed.

http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10078829

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=846478&forum_id=1#10081443)