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What direction can Dems realistically go in from here?
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:19 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage They touted social issues when the majority of voters were thinking about economic issues. Dems historically were the party of the workers and organized labor. But unions are shifting towards the right as Republicans have made a stronger case for economic populism.
I think one area where the left is struggling is it's difficult to be the party of wealthy white collar workers and hold the values and mores of costal elitism and find any way to relate to labor. How can a guy in an office building making a high six figure salary relate to the struggle of his delivery driver?
It's one of those sort of universal truisms in politics where you have to own the thing that you are. Democrats have won a lot of elections in the last 20 years and they've done it it times where there was a rising tide, they've done it in areas where people are generally well off. They've won in years when Republicans were either too focused on corporate America and profits, or too focused on conservative social issues that lacked broad appeal.
But I just don't know how you go from dominating pockets of white collar UMC to relating to the Guatemalan roofer who's up on a ladder on a hot day. There's an inherent disconnect. As much as Cenk and TYT want to usher in this blue collar working class movement from the left, the party just isn't there. They're eating caviar on Martha's Vineyard. And the GOP is in a prime position to steal some traditional Democrat issues by following through on their promises and not reverting to the old neocon ways. Of course, the left is going to hate everything Trump does, but lots of people in the middle are optimistic that this iteration of the Republican party is going to follow through and do something for them. |
Date: December 27th, 2024 12:35 AM Author: chocolate sinister location nothing will change in MURICA until people begin to understand that the real division exists between the ruling class (which i will loosely define as including - but not limited to- high level politicians, oligarchs, those who own and control businesses and the flow of capital, entrenched govt administrators, etc) and the working class. the real issue is a socioeconomic one, not really a matter of political party.
the truth is that if you are an EMPLOYEE at ANY LEVEL (and yes, this ranges from mcdonalds employees up to striver lolyers making a 300k a year salary) that you are not in control of your own life and are being exploited for your labor. you have more in common with a manager at walmart than you do your billionaire overlords.
"they" (ie the media and the other entities/people controlling the flow of information) have done a masterful job of importing foreigners and riling up citizens against each other through controversies about abortion, gay marriage, immigration, etc. as most of us know, this is to sew dissent and division between people and make it easier to exploit the populace as a whole. we are all fighting each other for crumbs while they poison us and steal from us.
things in this country will get better once a poor white man in alabama realizes he has more in common with the poor black men around him than he does white billionaires. and when middle class to UMC folks of all races realize that the citizens below them on the economic ladder are not their enemies- its the people above them.
i consider republicans and dems to be two sides of the same coin. they obviously dont agree on social issues, but they agree on literally everything else. the wealthy always scratch each others backs. they are not a monolithic block obviously, but they work together when they need to fuck over the people below them and enforce the status quo.
I realize i didnt really answer your question. I will attempt to do so now. I dont think theres any way to "save" the democrats as they were presented with a choice in 2016 and have taken the wrong path- that of identity politics. they should have followed bernie the first time he ran for prez and become a force for the common man/worker. they made the wrong choice and they are fucked.
I think in general both parties are trash and this entire country is completely fucked. we are circling the drain. whatever happens, happens. we are just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic until fortuitous meteor wipes us out. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:40 AM Author: Garnet erotic institution "things in this country will get better once a poor white man in alabama realizes he has more in common with the poor black men around him than he does white billionaires. and when middle class to UMC folks of all races realize that the citizens below them on the economic ladder are not their enemies- its the people above them."
Very cr |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 7:07 PM Author: cerebral iridescent whorehouse toaster Seeing the board turn full circle to class-consciousness is hilarious (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48493686) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:51 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage Ty,excellent response. I agree with this in part but some of it I disagree with. For one I would say that the rural white guy in Alabama and the working class black dude actually are on the same team now. I believe historians will look back at the 2024 Trump realignment and say it truly was a working class coalition. I was recently talking to a Hispanic woman from a border county that flipped from blue to red for the first time in a century. She said her whole family is Dem but she went the other way, and it had nothing to do with social issues. Purely economic.
I also think that while your point that the UMC striver lawmo types ought to identify with the Wal-Mart manager, they presently do not. I think that UMC absolutely worship rich people and celebrities. Think about how big a deal Clooney and Megan Thee Stallion are to the left. They really have a thing for rich celebrities. Of course they hate on Elon, but they also have Reid Hoffman, Soros, and guys like JB Pritzker who had the most tone def DNC speech when he bragged about being a real billionaire lol. A guy who never worked a day in his life and inherited a hotel fortune.
Anyway, I think the working class coalition around Trump is very real, I think white collar UMCmos are generally star struck and worship celebrities. Maybe they ought to align around a transformative figure but they're presently too far apart. The left has a long way to go to restore anyone's credibility in the populist labor movement. There was a story in the paper about a blue county in West Virginia that slowly transformed into a red county from the 90s to today. It was all coal miners. The only thing I was remember is that it said Bernie was the only Dem who would talk to them. And I just listened to a podcast where the President of the Teamsters Union said Josh Hawley R-Missouri marched in a picket line on behalf of workers and said that Right To Work (anti union legislation) was bad for workers.
I'm not saying you have to like the GOP if you don't like them but realistically who is more on the side of labor today? And apparently the Teamsters really wanted Chavez DeRemer for Secretary of Labor and Trump's donors didn't like her but he listened to them. You don't have to buy it wholesale that GOP suddenly will do everything for the worker but there are signs of a seismic change coming. And even if you're maximally skeptical that anything will be different, where is anyone on the left putting the working class number one with a bullet? |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:20 AM Author: chocolate sinister location Ty for the thoughtful and thorough response. I will respond to your comments by paragraph.
1- I do agree that there is more class consciousness now than there was, say 20 years ago. I know you’re a big Trumpmo, but I don’t view him the same way that you do. (please note: I do NOT suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome either) Trump IS a part of the ruling class but doesn’t move in lockstep with them or identify with them. I think there are many reasons for this, first and foremost because he’s a narcissist and a loose cannon that doesn’t play by their rules or go along with their social niceties. He is also against ENDLESS WAR (which I greatly respect him for). As a result, he’s a bit of an outsider. I think he probably does care a little bit about the American people but it’s tied into his vision of himself as special/the leader they need and ultimately his need to be loved/adored. I think your example of the hispanic family flipping to the republicans says more about how far the democrats have fallen with their race-baiting garbage, full alignment with globohomo and people like the FUCKING CHENEYS and failure to lead than about Trump being a champion of the working class. Trump speaks out against the ruling class because they have rejected him and he has rejected them, not because he is genuinely part of or fighting for the working class the way, say, Bernie did back in 2016. However, I don’t want to get bogged down in this point because I think it’s probably the least important out of what we’re discussing here.
2- I agree completely. As a whole, Americans are as heavily propogandized as any other country in the world. It’s just done beneath a thin veneer of civility as it comes from our “educated media/elite” as opposed to, say, a government-run tv station or newspaper like those that exist in “bad” countries. We are propogandized about literally everything, but we are talking about wealth/celebrities here, so I'll stick with that. From birth, we are taught to worship the rich, that they are special and should be admired. We are simultaneously taught that poor people are poor through their own moral failings. Everyone wants to be a celebrity. Everyone wants to be rich. Our entire society is built on fraudlie$ and this is one of the biggest. From the time that we are born, this shit is zapped into our brains everywhere. Its no wonder that so many people are literally brainwashed into worshipping “celebrities” and view the wealthy/popular as “elite”. Its a very serious problem and UMC people in particular really need to examine their hero-worship of various annoying uberwealthy faggots that have charmed them into thinking they are “genius” or “for the people”. I’ll leave it at that without naming names because that’s a rabbit hole i don’t want to fall into.
3- I agree that the working class has coalesced around Trump, but still maintain my point in #1 that he’s not really one of them even though he's indicated a willingness to help them in some minor ways. Again, this is largely due to the Dems completely fucking abandoning and dismissing half the country as only caring about “God & Guns” and allowing their brains to rot in their liberal city enclaves. Echo chambers and more echo chambers. “Elite”/UMC Dems literally despise their own people. Their own (white) poor/working poor. But not the black/latino working poor, of course, because their brains have been rotted by the media propaganda re: race. I applaud Josh Hawley for standing up for unions, if that is indeed his true position and he will follow through with it.
4- I don’t like the GOP for many reasons but I also don’t want to get bogged down in that discussion. My hatred of them began during the Cheney administration- I truly believe that administration was the final nail in the coffin for this country. Many of them push agendas that benefit themselves and their wealthy friends and many push a conservative social agenda to win the votes of Christmos / evangelicals even if some don’t believe in it. You ask “And even if you're maximally skeptical that anything will be different, where is anyone on the left putting the working class number one with a bullet?” The answer is that nobody is. Bernie WAS back in 2016 and he was doing it without it being tied to the rest of the left’s bullshit with race and allowing unlimited immigration. I’ll never forget the debate where he dismissed open borders as a “Koch Brothers proposal” to benefit business owners with cheap labor. He wasn’t wrong. The fact is that the “left” -which is really “shitlibs”, not a true “left” - doesn’t really have a champion right now. Those that espouse protections for workers have gone so insane on social issues that I won’t vote for them. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:41 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage This is really good stuff. It's tough to live up to your level of rhetoric here. Very high level.
Firstly, you're spot on about the Democrats. Very well said. For context, my sister actually worked on Bernie's 2016 campaign. To this day she is still YSFFM about the way Hillary and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz conspired to torpedo him. She often lamented that she wish Bernie had a little more Trump in him, just a more brash attitude (See Jean-Luc Mélenchon for what a more brazen Bernie might look like, but I digress.) I think we can both agree though that Bernie was the true center of left wing populism and has never been replaced.
Btw I'm not a yuge social con, not a Christmo. Was raised Unitarian mb you have heard of it. So I understand that social conservatism isn't universally popular. There are just certain issues like I'm against transitioning children, and also wouldn't mind if the Dems shifted back closer to 1990s position on abortion of safe/legal/rare vs what it has become. I'm not the most far right guy on social issues but can't get behind the modern left going full Weimar Republic level debauchery.
I'm not going to try and pill you super hard on Trump but we're just at a place where it's wait and see. He has a unique opportunity to follow through on his campaign promises and prove to the world the neoconservatism is really dead. I didn't like Bush and Cheney either. But hey, it's 2025. Tabula rasa. Let us all hope for the best. If right wing populism isn't the answer, the left has a very long way to go to provide the counter-argument. And since we're stuck with the Cheeto for four years, may as well root for him to have a good one. If he ends two foreign wars, stops border crime, boosts the economy and a couple more layups he'll go down an all time hero. America needs some easy wins right now. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:26 AM Author: chocolate sinister location Thank you for the compliment. If I’m sitting at a keyboard and fully focused on what I’m writing, I am occasionally able to string together sentences that clearly express my position in a way that doesn’t make me sound like a mouth-breathing retard.
1- Yes, I absolutely agree about the Democrats. 180 AF that your sister worked on Bernie’s original campaign. I absolutely despise Hillary, or as 180 Tulsi Gabbard once described her: “The queen of warmongers, embodiment of corruption, and personification of the rot that has sickened the Democratic Party for so long”. (Her description of Hillary is maybe my favorite political quote of all time) The Dems fully and completely conspired to fuck Bernie over both in 2016 and in 2020. Their actions were absolutely shameful and a fairly significant part of me hopes that the Dem party is eventually completely destroyed because of their actions. I agree that Bernie was the center and primary force of that entire movement and had the potential to be a transformational leader. Either election could have been a watershed moment for this entire country if Bernie had been elected and the pendulum started to swing back in favor of workers’ rights. (I know he wouldn’t have been able to achieve ALL of his desired reforms, but that large shift in momentum would have been historic and changed the US for the better) Instead, the Dems abandoned their original principles and base and went fully all-in with the batshit crazy “establishment” candidates and pushing every shitlib social position possible. Of course Trump was elected in 2016 and in 2020 we wound up with a demented puppet president and braindead VP. But I digress.
2- I’m socially to the left of many of the people on this board, but I dont call myself a social progressive and I’m definitely not a shitlib. I think the fabric of our society used to be held together through a combination of family, strong communities that people valued, a shared sense of social responsibility, and God. However, over the past 50 years, we’ve slowly abandoned the things that made this country strong in favor of the capitalist carnival and globohomo garbage. As we were brainwashed into believing that more money and the accumulation of more “stuff” is always better and more technology is always progress, things fell apart. Why focus on maintaining strong communities and relationships when there is ca$h to be made as a rootless cosmopolitan? Why commit to one person/place when you can just toss them out like everything else that is disposable in this capitali$t hell$cape, and find someone/thing bigger and better somewhere else? Why go out and interact with people when you can just stay inside and go online? As a quick aside, I DESPISE Mark Zuckerberg for his contribution to this phenomenon. “In the past, people used to gather in churches and town squares. Now they’ll gather on Facebook.” What a great attitude to have. All this of course is happening while we’re basically allowing millions of immigrants to just flow into the country unchecked because we want to exploit their cheap labor. And the media is forcing their own agendas and division among people, based on social differences. All of these things (plus others, admittedly, but these are the things I feel like ranting about right now) resulted in a rapid decay of the social fabric here. We’ve all seen it literally decay in front of our eyes. Everything and everyone has become a commodity- something to be used, bought, or sold- and as a society we now value nothing more than ourselves and the almighty dollar.
I won’t get too far into specific social issues except to say that I am against biological men in locker rooms with or playing sports with biological females. And I can’t believe that this is even an issue or that shitlibs demonize women by calling them “TERFS”.
3- We’ll see with Trump. Personally I have very little confidence in him. But again, I don’t hate him. I just hate what this country has become. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 9:37 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth i think you and i align neatly on most political issues. it might be outside of the xoxo norm, but it's far from shitlib and much more in line with the irl zeitgeist amongst gen z and y. it's why xo aligns pretty neatly with the redscare sphere on reddit.
i'm just a classic lib that wants the government to function in a way that promotes the health and welfare of it's citizens. i don't want identity based policies, either socially conservative ones that promote old school values, or progressive ones that promote woke values. i don't want identity to be considered at all in policy. how about we just stop operating the government as if the goal is the maximize our country's economic output and rejigger it to maximize our people's QOL. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 9:31 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth this bort is mostly UMCmos and has been rabidly anti-GC, pro-populism and was way head of the curve on it.
i think you're biased because of your umcmo enclave roots. imo the millennial brand tends to be very anti-gc and anti-billionaire. every upjumped umcmo i know is either a berniemo or a trumpmo, which are two sides of the same coin as their path to either camp starts with "holy shit the working class is getting absolutely fucked by GC." |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:58 PM Author: Grizzly soul-stirring theater stage L O FUCKING L at this boart being “anti-GC.” Xo is rabidly pro Trump who is rabidly pro GC. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492228) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 9:17 PM Author: milky massive site round eye I don’t think you fully understand what “GC” means as xo uses it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48494119) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:53 AM Author: Lime forum psychic 💯💯💯 literally this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490676) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:21 AM Author: chocolate sinister location :) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490771) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:55 AM Author: talking exhilarant dopamine set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490684) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:02 AM Author: Transparent bipolar house associate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490705) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:18 AM Author: Appetizing Slippery Public Bath You think that people who staff McDonald's are going to ally with $300k/year risk averse lawyers to overthrow the "oligarchs" and successful business owners? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490761) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:00 AM Author: chartreuse adventurous son of senegal resort cr the professional managerial class whining about "elites" is just always going to be a nonstarter. the fact is that the PMC has enormous power/influence in our society and proles see right through people like xo lawyers victimizing themselves (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491698) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:08 AM Author: Vivacious startled abode newt race/ethnicity is a much, much stronger category than 'class.' we found that out when the USSR blew apart into ethic statelets like 'land of the kazakhs' and 'land of the uzbeks' rather than regional worker's unions or something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490865) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:13 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage It's not as big in the US. People don't care as much. People want an economic future. It's dinner table issues, not ideology. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490876) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:17 AM Author: Vivacious startled abode newt this model has already been tried and failed several times throughout US history. the closest it came was something like 'prairie socialism' in the relatively homogeneous upper midwest and prairie canada. you're free to try some more, if you want. i already know the outcome. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490880) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:20 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage No one is attempting Soviet style Marxism-Leninism dummy. We're just trying to figure out how to raise wages for working people and stop the plundering by the elites. We're not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490882) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:31 AM Author: Vivacious startled abode newt you're not going to be able to do that through the mythical 'cross-racial coalition.' not with an actual cross-racial group, as opposed to a supermajority group with smaller junior partners included within. look at a place like houston - do you think you can cobble together a 'coalition' which is 45% mexicans, 25% blacks, 20% whites, and 10% others?
good fucking luck. this is an old idea in US politics, and it has literally never succeeded. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 9:17 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth a race-focused policy is a complete nonstarter. even if you were right, it's far more mystical than trying to implement soviet-style communism here.
people that jerk off all day with groyper-esqe pipe dreams are not serious people. regardless of the merits of their ideas, they can't get past the problem that it's intolerable to like 95% of the population and has 0% chance of being attempted in our lifetime. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 9:15 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491347) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 3:00 AM Author: chocolate sinister location I would like to respond substantively to this and explain in more detail what I meant above, but it is late as fuck and my brain is pretty fried. I will return to this thread to respond tomorrow, pumo friend. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490916) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 9:21 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth no it's not. not in america.
we're a nation of immigrants. most white people here have no idea what their genetic test will spit out. we have far more regional divide (coastal versus flyover) than we'll ever have with race.
of course old world countries have a bigger issue with ethnic issues: those people have lived there for thousands of years. our most "ethnically entrenched" areas are dindu towns, italian neighborhoods, etc. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 9:28 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth the useful idiots proles on the right are temporarily embarrassed millionaires that don't realize how they're being exploited and have bought the lie we live in a capitalist meritocracy. the useful idiots proles on the left are those that think everyone making $100k+ is "rich" and not in their class.
in major cities a single income family of four making four times the national average is going to struggle to live a simpson's like lifestyle. it's easy to understand why someone making $30k/yr is going to have a hard time seeing how they're in the same class as the guy making $300k. but until they do, the UMC types are going to side more with GC, because the left wants to eat them.
https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/ |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:01 AM Author: chartreuse adventurous son of senegal resort it's easy to understand why someone making $30k/yr is going to have a hard time seeing how they're in the same class as the guy making $300k
it's easy to understand why someone making $30k/yr is going to have a hard time seeing how they're in the same class as the guy making $300k
it's easy to understand why someone making $30k/yr is going to have a hard time seeing how they're in the same class as the guy making $300k
because they FUCKING AREN'T, MAN. THAT'S WHY THEY DON'T "SEE" ANYTHING. this whiny yuppie bullshit is exactly why proles instinctively and correctly want to burn lawyers and the like at the stake. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:23 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth bro, acknowledging that the UMC are also exploited by GC is not the same as conflating everyone who is exploited by GC to the point that you don't recognize the extreme differences is their material conditions.
our poor have far better material conditions than the global poor. and your pearl clutching is essentially the same argument ezra klein types use to pretend globalism = humanitarianism.
all you're doing is reinforcing the sentiment that makes UMC types align with GC elites. if the working classes sees no difference between a biglaw associate and elon musk, than the biglaw associate is never going to align against GC elites. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:26 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage UMC choose to align with elites by their own volition. They worship celebrities and adopt all the left wing social values. No one made them do this. They universally look down on their porters and handimen. These are irrefutable facts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491840) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:29 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth http://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&mc=76&forum_id=2#48491374
explain xo then if this sentiment is "universal." how do vance, trump, etc. exist? if what you're saying was true, then you goofed bigtime supporting them. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:45 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage This bort is not representative of the population. Yes, I'm obviously talking about UMC enclaves. Look at the election map! Slightly less than half the country lives in a liberal bubble. Poasters are a tiny fraction of the country. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491906) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:52 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth ok, then it's not universal.
i think you'll find that many UMC and elites voted for trump. scapegoating people's opinions based on their identity is reductive and stupid. you tend to do this with everything: race, gender, and now class. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:54 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage False (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491940) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:39 AM Author: chartreuse adventurous son of senegal resort "if the working classes sees no difference between a biglaw associate and elon musk, than the biglaw associate is never going to align against GC elites"
The type of person to become a biglaw associate is on average not going to align against anything because their status is predicated on perpetuating our system--they purposefully sought out one of the safest paths to money and do not care one bit that their entire career is mostly built on exploiting bureaucratic inefficiency for money and adding zero value to society. Pretending anything else is the case is absolute fantasyland "haha GC elites" pandering nonsense. Proles are 100% correct to not trust yuppie types
Instead of taking the easy chickenshit way out and pretending "we're just one of you fighting the system!" man up and rebuild a sense of noblesse oblige. Until that happens nobody is going to trust the UMC any more than "elites" for damn good reason. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:50 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth see my poast above responding to HAtp
you're creating the self-fulfilling prophesy i'm talking about. and completely disregarding the UMCmos who act against their own self-interest. it's often been theorized that the PMC will be the vanguard for the elites, and this is why.
also, i'm sure you're UMC, so what are you even advocating for here? you seem pretty anti-GC yourself, so what is the point in arguing which bucket to put UMC people in? why can't there just be some class consciousness and every class that is exploited by GC aligns against them instead of bickering over who is exploited more? no one would seriously argue that the biglaw associate is worse off than the mcdonald's employee. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:01 PM Author: chartreuse adventurous son of senegal resort "why can't there just be some class consciousness and every class that is exploited by GC aligns against them instead of bickering over who is exploited more?"
Because it's fucking useless. This is exactly the type of feelgood pablum that sounds nice and does absolutely nothing because it doesn't even point to some concrete action we can take. There is no set of definitive "anti-GC" positions, and more importantly this line of thinking never leads to any serious change because everybody is always doing the spiderman meme: "who? elite? me? no it's the that guy!".
Incidentally what this line of thinking does result it in is it's incredibly easily exploited: see people like *Marc Andreessen*, someone who if he's not an elite, who the fuck is?, exploiting the "those gosh darn GC elites running society!" narrative to their own ends, such as casually tying together stuff like freeing Ross Ulbricht with relaxing any crypto regulations that would conveniently benefit businesses he's invested in. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:02 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491984) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:05 PM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth just because the elites run gc doesn't mean every elite aligns with gc-friendly policy.
there are temporarily embarrassed millionaire proles who will happily sign off on all the rapacious gc shit vivek would want. and there are engels type elites that are serious anti-gc despite their class.
you can slot umc into where ever you want, it doesn't matter. i'd like to just throw GC kikes from helicopters and whatever path gets us there the fastest i'm on board with. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:11 PM Author: chartreuse adventurous son of senegal resort The point is that being "anti-GC" or whatever as a narrative is feelgood nonspecific big-tent bullshit. Proles are always going to rightfully furrow their brow when lawyers or doctors or MBAs say "yeah fuck the elites!". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492025) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:13 PM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth we need a tent 50%+ to accomplish anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492034) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:17 PM Author: chartreuse adventurous son of senegal resort Accomplish what, exactly? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492043) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:27 PM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth anything. i assume the purpose of political debate is accomplishing some sort of change to the status quo, otherwise we'd just be sitting here saying "it's all good!" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492097) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:38 PM Author: chartreuse adventurous son of senegal resort There is no debate if you don't have a concrete position. It's the equivalent of a politician kissing a baby and saying "I'm for lowering the debt, protecting our troops, and improving our schools!" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492152) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:43 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage I met a Zoomer dude who said he was a Democrat because Republicans were for bad things happening and Democrats were for good things happening. It was just insane to me lol. He was super brainwashed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492167) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:47 PM Author: chartreuse adventurous son of senegal resort I'm Liberal, btw. I've just always been extremely skeptical of stuff like populist sentiment on a message board for lawyers (remember "Youthanize" lmao) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492181) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:11 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage I remember the moniker but what was his shtick? Remind me pls (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492301) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:13 PM Author: chartreuse adventurous son of senegal resort Youthanize wasn't a poaster (well maybe someone later adopted it as a moniker) but an xo "movement" where aggrieved young lawyers would, uh, group together to fight global capitalism and the boomer menace and... like, talk about stuff and fuck the system, man.
See: http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=1553939&mc=126&forum_id=2 |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:22 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage Incredible bort lore thank you. You're right this aborted project speaks volumes. I assume these people all got into Effective Altruism later in life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492347) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:00 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage This is 100% correct and exactly why shitlibs still have no idea why Trump won. Gunneratttt truly doesn't grasp the UMC enclave mentality due to his prole roots. I have always respected him for his humble origins and think his motley tribe is way more fun to be around than the people I grew up with who were mostly insufferable faggots. But he doesn't have a pulse on the elites. This nigga gotta hie to Montauk some day and try the $50 chicken breast.
Kamala campaign ran a full spectrum hello fellow proletarians campaign from a luxury enclave in Rehoboth or wherever the fuck it was. This is what they don't get. The working class know that they hate them. "Schumer thinks his constituents work for him." |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:06 PM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth you act like i don't live + work in the enclave and have for the past couple decades. the fact that i *HOLD* the opinions that you're saying UMC types *DON'T* proves you wrong. along with juris doctor vance and many others. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492006) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:09 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage No one is saying there isn't a counter movement and that some UMCmos like ourselves who are very Vance aligned aren't in it. But 48% of the country voted for shitlibbery and MOST of them live in liberal enclaves.
I know you live and work in UMCland but you aren't really one of them. You're an outsider. You don't really have their mentality.
Every county in the US with a high median home value voted blue. Hth. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:16 PM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth but im not ignorant of it at all either.
ultimately, im against assuming a person's beliefs based on their identity. yeah, most people will just act in their own self interest and not consider the bigger picture. dindus will want AA and gibes, elites will want policy that benefits them, etc. but not all, so it's far from universal. if it was we might as well give up because you need some UMC smartmos to lead the peasant revolts. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:23 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage The entire point of this thread is that Dems are out of touch with working people and it's because they are the party of the UMC. This isn't even disputed by anyone serious. Proles are never going to trust people who openly look down on them. Schumer and Pelosi behave like late stage Roman empire aristocrats. Proles instinctively know this and despise them in return. UMC is heavily, heavily coastal elite aligned both culturally and economically. They don't relate to the working class at all because they can't. They have too much money and their lives are too nice. They're post scarcity and they can't understand why anyone would care if the price of gas and eggs went up. These are macro scale fundamentals. There is no counterargument to this. These are politicial realities beyond dispute.
That being said yes there are counter elites like Trump who grew up rich but somehow found a way to become embraced and beloved by poor people in Arkansas. You, me, JD Vance. There are a ton of people who are going the other way. Leon Trotsky and Pol Pot grew up wealthier than the people around them. Wealthy enclaves periodically churn out agents provocateurs who go against the regime. But these are the EXCEPTIONS to the rule. The rule is working class despise UMC and vice versa. Dems can't be for the interest of both, or at least they weren't in 2024. I don't see how anyone could refute this. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:31 PM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth "There is no counterargument to this. These are politicial realities beyond dispute."
"I don't see how anyone could refute this."
well i guess the argument is settled then. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:33 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage Yeah it is on this narrow band in specific. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492136) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:37 PM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth you should spread this good news to the huge swaths of workings class voters that continue to vote dem despite there being no rational argument as to why. surely the millions of people that vote this way are just ignorant slobs that don't have defensible arguments for doing so. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492149) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:40 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage Flame? Working class has never been relatively more conservative than they are today. Trump has a unique once in a generation chance to build deep roots with working classmos. If he pulls it off then we could be looking at a long term multi ethnic coalition of working class voting R for decades. And it may have already begun. Thought you understood the basics of this... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492155) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:50 PM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth you're not catching what i'm throwing down:
there are a lot of arguments on why many working class people continue to vote dems. the multi-ethnic coalition you're lauding ignores the fact that minorities still vote dem in supermajority numbers. yes, the tide is shifting, but it's not over. and they have articulable reasons for doing so. but if your position is "they don't", then there's really no point in continuing, because you've repeatedly said there is no counterargument to your position. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:16 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage Ok there are some working class people who still vote Dem. Let's break down the typical reasons. Social issues and racialism, still distrusting of neocons, hate conservative social values, people who fear Trump is too aligned with corporatism. Some of these people are extremely dug in and won't budge. But a surprising number of them moved to the right in unprecedented numbers and it's in no small part to people like Josh Hawley bashing right to work and marching in picket lines. These used to be easy wins for Dems back when they were aligned with organized labor. And maybe they will reform around working class populism again.
But it's crazy of you don't think Dems bread and butter today isn't UMC wypipolandia. It's literally nuts if you disagree with this assessment. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:21 PM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth there is nothing in what i said today, my entire history of poasting, and what you know about me personally that should give you any indication that that's *MY* position.
but it is *OTHER* people's positions. and if you refuse to consider the merits of their arguments, you're no better than obeezy poasting above re: "LOL TRUMPMOS THINK X." |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:25 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage Every 4 years we all descend into a bitter, divisive politicial battle where one side ultimately prevails almost entirely by successfully pitching themselves as the adults in the room over the other guy. Of course Dems have a working class base. Of course they could hypothetically expand it. They're obviously not going away.
But they have lost ground in a key demo that used to be their historical bread and butter while gaining in the UMC demo to the point where many working class people find their platform wholly unrecognizable. These are once again facts not disputed by anybody.
The question in the OP was where do they go from HERE. There's no dispute about where they ARE. It's what do they do NEXT. If we can't agree on where they ARE how can we debate where they're going? You're talking about a group that still exists but is not the majority. That's what politics is. Expanding and contracting coalitions over time. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 10:11 AM Author: Maniacal diverse stag film incel This. ESCAPE THE MATRIX (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491469) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:32 PM Author: olive angry sex offender good screed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492394) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:37 AM Author: exciting pea-brained patrolman Come out against Indian immigration. I may vote for them (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490647) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:42 AM Author: Garnet erotic institution The best thing the DEMs can do is sit back and let the GOP show just how much they don't give a FUCK about "working class" issues.
Dems also need to allow the GOP to go BUCK WILD on deportations. Muslims and Latino's truly believe that Republicans are only going to screw over the "Bad" immigrants and that nothing negative will happen to them.
When the Dems tried to warn them about how bad the GOP were going to be, they were accused of "fear mongering". So the Dems need to just sit back and let the bad shit happen. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:50 AM Author: exciting pea-brained patrolman Huge Trumpmo here but this is CR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490667) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:53 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage There's definitely a chance Trump could screw it up and cuck to corporations. But if Dems main strategy is to root against America and hope for the other guy to fail while not putting forth a counterargument beyond we're not that guy is just sad. Admit that it's sad when Plan A is rooting for the President to fail. That's unamerican. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490678) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:40 AM Author: Garnet erotic institution a) Trump has been NOTHING BUT A CUCK FOR CORPORATIONS or did you think the 2017 Tax Cut was actually for the "working man"?
b) "rooting for the President to fail is unamerican" I'm sorry, have you been in a coma since January of 2009? |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:48 PM Author: saffron nibblets space Libs hated W at least as much as cons hated Obama. The 2000 election played a big part, and then there was a brief, limited pause from Sept 2001 to early 2003 in the run up to the war. But by the Dixie Chicks period and certainly by 2004 libs hated the fuck out of W and hated even more after he barely squeaked by Kerry and then had his approval in the 20s by 2006. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492186) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:23 AM Author: plum center persian (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490780) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:43 AM Author: lascivious spruce orchestra pit mad cow disease Who cares lol
The election is over, normal people stopped thinking about this shit by Thanksgiving |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:51 AM Author: exciting pea-brained patrolman Pretty vapid post, feel free to post in another thread that you’re interested in. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490670) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:54 AM Author: lascivious spruce orchestra pit mad cow disease Nah I'll post wherever I want thanks sweetie pie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490680) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:56 AM Author: exciting pea-brained patrolman Nice me too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490688) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:52 AM Author: Elite fanboi cuck Kind of a dumb thread.
Party in power has to basically throw a perfect game. All the Democrats have to do is sit back and wait for GOP to fuck up SOMETHING. Ukraine situation, deportations, economy, etc.
Then they run $500 mm worth of ads on how the Trump administration caused XYZ issue and they're back in the game.
Kamala *almost&* won the thing if not for a couple of % points in 3 states, and she basically had the abortion card vs 20+ cards held by Trump. Dems will have many more cards to play in 2028. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:56 AM Author: exciting pea-brained patrolman Depends on the issue. Economy pretty much the only thing they cannot fuck up. Declaring victory on crime, immigration etc. is more nebulous. Recession = ggwp |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:56 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage No one is saying Dems are out of play in 2028 and the biggest issue will be finding a personality as popular as Trump and we all know a guy like George H W Bush was an uncharismatic nerd who followed a folk hero... But goddamn you people are sad as fuck rooting for the country to fail and then your main argument in 4 years is we're not that guy. Just sad lol. Be a goddamn patriot and actually root for America to win. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490687) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:59 AM Author: Elite fanboi cuck I'm not rooting for America to fail. You asked how the Dems can compete.
It's not a hard question - its the same reason elections have been close the past 80 years.
The party out of power says they would've done all the same things that are going well, and would've done the opposite of the things that are going poorly.
The OP is akin to asking "How will the GOP ever win when gay marriage has a 75% approval rating that is climbing?!?!!" They'll just...stop talking about gay marriage... |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:04 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage Yeah they're not going to change that much and hope people get sick of Trump. But let's say he's successful and has a good four years, the economy is really hot and things are going good. Let's just hypothetically say that they're not going to win in 2028 on the same political brand they were roughly from 2012-2024 alone. They have to make genuine inroads somewhere. They have to broaden their tent somehow. Whom do they go after? I can't foresee right now whom exactly they can rope into their next program. But there's obviously a lot of time and everything will be different politically in four years. I just can't foresee what the change will be if at all. Would be kooky if they literally do nothing and run it all back. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490714) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:10 AM Author: exciting pea-brained patrolman I mean in that scenario they’re just not going to win. All you usually have to do to beat an incumbent is to show an important area where they failed that affects enough real people and an alternative way to address the problem, but Dems also have a toxic brand that they’re going to need to repudiate (at minimum a rebrand) If I was Josh Shapiro I would be praying everyday for a 2008 economic crash |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:15 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage Agreed. This was my entire point in the OP was that Dems are simply miles apart from labor and drifting further. The whole inspiration for that poast was Sean O'Brien on Tucker talking about how Kamala wouldn't answer any of their questions and then stormed off saying she'll win with or without them. And then no DNC invite.
Without labor I just don't see a future for Dems in national politics barring a) economic crisis, or b) an evolution that I cannot personally forecast, but very well may emerge over time.
The other thing Dems need is someone with the rizz of Barack Obama who makes people feel good no matter what he does. Maybe it's Shapiro idk. I have no clue. Nothing I have said is a prediction of any kind, merely an admission that I don't see the way forward and the Dems split with labor is not a good sign for them going forward. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:45 AM Author: Garnet erotic institution lol @ I want to see a follow-up interview with Sean O'Brien in 1 year when Trump has done absolutely nothing for organized labor.
And that's assuming that Trump DID NOT go through with his dumbass idea of Tariff's on China.
Like I said above, the DEMS need to let people suffer under the weight of their own stupid decisions. Blue collar workers really believed that Trump was going to do ANYTHING that benefited them.
They need to suffer the consequences of those delusions. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:12 AM Author: bespoke stage Continue to win roughly 50% of the electoral votes and maintain 99% of existing districts in congress. Abortion makes up for a lot. URMs would vote for a male dem over a Romney or Kasich or Huckabee (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490745) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:14 AM Author: exciting pea-brained patrolman PA is gone for Dems, R registrations are continuing to skyrocket post-election. By 2032, GOP will be able to win elections without a PA WI or MI. Their current coalition is cooked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490750) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:16 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage Agreed re: PA becoming a red state long term. It's Ohio 2.0. But for every action there's a reaction. Another red state could go blue. Colorado still haunts Republicans. And it happened very fast. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490755) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:18 AM Author: exciting pea-brained patrolman Probably GA. I hope retarded leftists can put Blue Texas to bed after this year though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490763) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:20 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage I argued with that lib pumo a million times this past year and he kept repeating the mantra that demographics was destiny. He said there's no future for GOP in Texas because of a younger Latino population replacing old white people dying off.
Maybe it would have helped if he had, you know, actually met a Texican. Not to doobs myself too hard but I literally know THOUSANDS of them. And you just might be surprised what they think about la economía... |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:01 PM Author: saffron nibblets space lol sup bro good to know you’re still very butthurt that I disagreed with you, partly just to get you riled up. I grew up in Texas, half my best friends are Texicans, and half the argument you of course leave out is that Ted Cruz is an inherently terrible and unlikeable politician. I also think any cons who are certain that they’ve claimed the RGV for the rest of our lifetimes are extremely retarded, and the reality is that Texas is a contest for Latinos (not just Texicans) for the rest of our lives. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492246) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:20 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage Explain star county niggy. I've never seen someone get blown out so hard and still claim victory. Yeah Texas could go blue and Buc-ee's could go out of business. Anything is possible! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492336) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:52 PM Author: saffron nibblets space I’m not claiming victory, and wasn’t ever arguing that Allred was a sure thing. And I fully admit that I was surprised that it wasn’t closer. Still your appeal to Starr county proves my point. Texas is a contest for Latinos in every election after this and that will be increasingly true as we age. Lots of Texicans like Trump, like that he is pro-men and anti-gender queer insanity, and like that he and the GOP were against the craziest Covid restrictions which was the most important and legit pro-working class and anti-UMC flashpoint of the entire Trump era. That set of issues was important, but so was the fact that the Dems ran a candidate who had a brain full of pudding that couldn’t speak coherent sentences. All great for MAGA, but not likely to matter much/at all in 2026, 2028 or after. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492755) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:57 AM Author: razzle umber idiot french chef They can sit back and let Trump make mistakes, crush the '26 midterms, and if then nominate a candidate who can win red state and working class support in '28. I'm thinking someone like Andy Beshear, Josh Stein, or possibly Mark Kelly.
But knowing Democrats, they'll probably double down on Kamala or Newsom and lose once again. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:00 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage Sean O'Brien said that Chuck Schumer and Kamala made him feel like they thought he worked for them. The elites look down on their constituents. They're just supposed to have this all in the bag. It's their country we're just living in it at their leisure. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490840) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:02 AM Author: razzle umber idiot french chef Schumer has always been a scowling, angry old man, even when he was in the House thirty years ago. I can't believe he ever became majority leader. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490843) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:04 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage He told the Teamsters President that he should be grateful that Biden gave them back their pensions. He said yeah thanks for returning them. Teddy Kennedy took them away in the 80s. Now what have you done for us lately?
Upon further reflection to tbtp's point in some other thread, it really is a matter of splitting up this enormous pie we call the economy. All someone has to do is figure out how to curb inflation on housing, education, and healthcare, and put a few more dollars in people's pockets. It's not rocket science. You fix that and you'll go down a hero. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:50 AM Author: Garnet erotic institution "All someone has to do is figure out how to curb inflation on housing, education, and healthcare, and put a few more dollars in people's pockets. It's not rocket science."
Welp, this is the dumbest thing I've read in this thread.
Bravo! |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:55 AM Author: chocolate sinister location "Upon further reflection to tbtp's point in some other thread, it really is a matter of splitting up this enormous pie we call the economy. All someone has to do is figure out how to curb inflation on housing, education, and healthcare, and put a few more dollars in people's pockets. It's not rocket science. You fix that and you'll go down a hero."
Things in MURICA are too far gone/fucked to be fixed through incremental changes or policy tweaks. We need major, simultaneous and substantative reforms in more areas than I even have the energy to list. OR we need a major, society-disrupting event/disaster that knocks us on our ass and FORCES us to make a change.
The first won't happen because the people in power wont let it happen and the American people are too numbed by the rat race and endless entertainment and cheap dopamine hits- sugar, porn, consoooming, vidya, swipe apps, media circuses, social media, etc to turn into 100 million Luigis and revolt/force change.
If the latter happened it would be painful short-term but we might have a fighting chance long-term. But as it stands now, we are circling the drain and re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
(its getting late so I will need to leave this convo soon) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 9:52 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491428) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 3:06 AM Author: chocolate sinister location (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48490924) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 2:49 AM Author: Garnet erotic institution "The elites look down on their constituents."
Not like the GOP, right?
Because the GOP has just put forth policy after policy that benefited the common blue-collar worker, right?
Raising federal minimum wage? Protecting the ACA? Child tax credit? Universal childare for working parents?
All of those were policies CHAMPIONED by the GOP, right?
"Hurr-durr, the DEMS talk down to me, so I'm going to show them by helping the Republicans win! That'll show those uppity Democrats! They'll regret their tone when they see the GOP pass YET ANOTHER tax cut that benefits the wealthy!" |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 9:52 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491429) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 9:23 AM Author: bat shit crazy sanctuary trust fund These threads are worthless catnip for Obeezy level pumos (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491361) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 9:40 AM Author: Pearly Underhanded Toilet Seat i'm curious about whether elite Dems will continue to choose their POTUS candidates (true since 2008) or will trust the primary's electoral process. if the latter, i can see the Dem base going progressive over centrist. what they need is a centrist governor. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491398) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 10:00 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth the past election was essentially a democrat own-goal. even pollsters like atlas had kamala ahead of trump at times. if they had nominated a competent politician they probably would have won.
i think it's a mistake to start doing victory laps before trump is even inaugurated. just look at 2020: even if trump does a serviceable job he could get COVID-pwned by events completely outside of his control. and it's possible he just fucks it up on his own.
this wasn't 1984, and the democrats came back after that too. it's not the end of history. the parties will realign to capture votes. and there are plenty of shitlibs out there. just go to normie places like /r/politics. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 10:15 AM Author: marvelous office police squad This. Trump and his team of incompetents will fuck up and give dems an opening in 2026 at the very least. 2028 depends on how much of a fuckup trump is and who dems run. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491483) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 10:58 AM Author: Grizzly soul-stirring theater stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491688) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 10:09 AM Author: marvelous office police squad Cast trump and reptiles as failures like they did in 2020. Will work again in 2026. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491463) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 10:58 AM Author: Grizzly soul-stirring theater stage Drop the tranny and race baiting shit and focus on how democratic policies are better for the working class.
It’s a two party system. Republicans will spectacularly fail to deliver so the balance of power will shift again pretty quickly.
People wrote the death knell of the GOP in 2012 too, and of the GOP in 2020. How did those pan out? |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:00 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth dems would be a juggernaut if they don't have a bunch of buttplug enthusiasts trying to shove woke shit down people's throats. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491700) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:11 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage This is only half the problem. The other half is they had no economic plan for working people. Instead they talked about legislation to protect crypto assets (but only for black men??). They very well may rejigger their economic policies by 2028 though. I don't think they can drop the woke. I think everyone has been missing my point ITT that when you are literally a UMC success story you can't relate to blue collar people. And I dispute your claim that every Millennial is Trump or Bernie. There are a ton who are still mainstream Dems. And they haven't got a clue how the other half lives. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491760) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:17 AM Author: Grizzly soul-stirring theater stage I don’t think that’s true though. Dems are just terrible at messaging and Trump is a propaganda genius. Having the wealthiest man in the world buy the biggest social media platform and turn it into a pure propaganda outlet is also really helpful for messaging as is the quarter of a billion Musk sunk into the race.
The billionaires hellbent on enabling GC have a ton of advantages in spreading their propaganda. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:22 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage (Guy whom even if he's right still fundamentally doesn't get what's wrong with the Dems) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491821) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:25 AM Author: Grizzly soul-stirring theater stage Even if Dems focus entirely on messaging their positive economic policies the propaganda machine they are up against is incredibly powerful. If you’re in a Fox News / X / OANN and assorted detritus bubble, you cannot be reached by facts and reality.
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:27 AM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage This is egregious flame and full bore copium addiction.
Like 15% of people in the middle don't like either party and just vote for who they hate less in the moment. You're nuts dude. |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:00 PM Author: Grizzly soul-stirring theater stage It’s a bid advantage to have a large, ideologically malleable, and fanatically loyal base that is fully propagandized and will do and say whatever they’re told. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491971) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:06 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage There may be 10-20% of Trump voters who are die hard Q tards or whatever but it's not even the majority of the 77 million who voted for him. Most are normal people who just want a functioning government. You're way off base. You're failing to read the room, here. Most Trump voters are normal people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492009) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:17 PM Author: Grizzly soul-stirring theater stage I wish that were true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492045) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:24 PM Author: Ebony 180 pocket flask stage It is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492083) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:27 AM Author: Translucent People Who Are Hurt Ticket Booth you're vastly overestimating how much thought the average voter puts into policy and how much they understand economics. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491842) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 11:13 AM Author: dull nofapping fortuitous meteor Just Be Racist imo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491766) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:00 PM Author: supple fear-inspiring cuckold straight into camps (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48491969) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:40 PM Author: olive angry sex offender up (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492157) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:50 PM Author: Transparent bipolar house associate Trump won by 1% against a literal brown prostitute that everyone hated including Dems and who had zero eloquence or intelligence
The country has browned and unless trump does 30 million mud deportations this might be the last R president of our lifetime |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 12:59 PM Author: Grizzly soul-stirring theater stage Also GOP has an overall very small edge in House and senate despite this being a favorable cycle by map. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492232) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:00 PM Author: Transparent bipolar house associate We’re on the verge due to demographic changes forced by Jews of becoming a permanent one party state like california (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492236) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:21 PM Author: Grizzly soul-stirring theater stage Lolno, and you’re also retarded and literally always wrong (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492341) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:21 PM Author: Transparent bipolar house associate Wrong (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492344) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 3:14 PM Author: Grizzly soul-stirring theater stage Did “Anglin” tell you that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492875) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:01 PM Author: olive angry sex offender Probably dems should run some one who isn't considered universally retarded (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492242) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:27 PM Author: saffron nibblets space It’s interesting that no one ITT has even mentioned that Biden was an absurd catastrophe for the Dem brand, but he’s gone now and the damage he did won’t last until 2028 in this media environment. But that debate was WILD. It takes a massive fuckup that’s wildly out of bounds for either side’s partisans to completely turn on their standard bearer and go with “anything else” as a better option but it seemed completely inevitable when there were still 45 minutes to go in that debate. Biden running again will go down as one of the most colossal fuck ups in US political history. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492372) |
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Date: December 27th, 2024 1:32 PM Author: olive angry sex offender Biden would have been fine had he held to his campaign promise of one term. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5655007&forum_id=2).#48492393) |