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So 2nd hand embarrassed that Chabadniks believe Shneerson is Moschiach HFS LOL
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Date: June 20th, 2026 10:59 PM Author: Ricky (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5876074&forum_id=2/#49952614) |
Date: June 20th, 2026 11:01 PM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., I’m first hand embarrassed. The messiah isn’t coming if they all believe this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5876074&forum_id=2/#49952618) |
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Date: June 20th, 2026 11:07 PM Author: getulio You probably misunderstand the doctrine and probably conflate the median Lubavitcher belief about Schneerson with what the extremists and fundamentalists believe As he actually puts his thoughts on the Messiah it's fairly reasonable; the Messiah is kind of a distributed force rather than a singular event. He's said (as I interpreted it) that everyone is part of the Messiah whenever they're performing certain mitzvahs or finding themselves in the right place at the right time. It's unusual but not particularly offensive in that light. I don't know if I believe this myself but I don't find it offensive or controversial either, and it's very humanistic in a way innate to more left-wing interpretations of Judaism. Not an expert but I spent a while trying to understand it and this is how I remember it |
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Date: June 20th, 2026 11:09 PM Author: Riders On the Turn sounds insightful (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5876074&forum_id=2/#49952640) |
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Date: June 20th, 2026 11:13 PM Author: getulio You can find this stuff pretty easily on the Chabad website and I'm pretty sure if you ask a moderate Chabadnik what they believe regarding him it's going to be something like that It raises some other questions regarding scriptural interpretations of what or who the Messiah is supposed to be and there are a few verses I think in Ezekiel or Daniel that perhaps contradict it but I think there's probably grounding in it via commentary that would make it acceptable. |
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Date: June 21st, 2026 7:19 AM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., >I'm pretty sure if you ask a moderate Chabadnik what they believe regarding him it's going to be something like that
a "moderate" chabadnik will tell you "moderate" propaganda to your face but they believe the same stuff the extremists do |
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Date: June 21st, 2026 7:38 AM Author: getulio i think that's your own cynicism shining through, and it's understandable in the late modern American cultural psychosis these aren't Scientologists though afaik. granted i'm not out there polling and canvassing a wide spread of chabadniks but from the material and spread of articles and writings and what not available it doesn't seem as much like these people are going to pull you into a room and have you swearing fealty to the Lubavitcher so much as they're going to read verses with you |
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Date: June 21st, 2026 7:50 AM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., the "moderate" chabadniks have a very strong incentive to be very closeted about it -- because their "brand" depends on them not being seen as kooks. their brand depends on them just being normal and mainstream so their outreach stuff works.
so thats why chabad.org isnt going to publicly spew extreme views, and no mainstream chabad rabbi will either.
the yellow flag yechi adoneinu types are all renegade chabadniks who dont have "official" posts in the movement. |
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Date: June 21st, 2026 8:00 AM Author: getulio i would have to investigate these claims further and i'm not really in any state or disposition to at the moment but my poll of information comes from forums and a variety of other less formal sources than the official org website as well as conversations with people of the group here and there over the years the stated mission, as it seems to me, appears to be good and holy (and truly so amongst a peoples that has historically been so quick to leave others who practice the principles of the torah out in the rain due to petty cultural or racial differences; russian jews shed no tears over the polish ones, and american jews across the atlantic scarcely heard the cries of either as the cruel machinery of generalplan ost descended upon them) and i think they ask a lot of questions of the faith that break with orthodoxy and place themselves in atypical positions to elicit difficult answers about the practice from the practitioners and i think that's probably a good thing in an era where the youth of the practice are turning away from it to sects that put less of an emphasis on canonical commentaries and scripture or even plain jane jewish flavored secularism schneerson's doctrine as its stated is not particularly offensive to me nor, of what i know of it, do i find it to be a serious disruption of the practice of the fundaments of the faith. the topic of the messiah is very hotly contested and likely always will be until something truly concrete and obvious at a glance comes along but i do think that his interpretation is a useful religious signpost for people asking difficult questions to adonai and finding answers to be as perplexing or difficult to follow in a new and confusing era like our own. i tend to side with the more humanitarian interpretation of intense doctrine like the matter of messiah when considering interpretations of events or belief through a strictly judaic lens, and schneerson's teachings on the matter pass the muster for enabling the individual practitioner to feel empowered to perform mitzvah and find and create moments of what's sublime in creation to "please the sight of hashem". my comment below regarding the cultural context also comes back into question where, as the tolerance shown towards the traumatized leaving the german situation was considered (and indeed, this informed some of the early modern Israelite's cultural context), the situation for people leaving the bolshevik situation should be considered similarly. there's a lot going on there and it's not something i'd pry into too deeply until psychological factors regarding then cultural and political context that the movement originated within are considered and weighed accordingly. to do anything but is inhospitable and barbaric when considering intra-sect dialogue, especially when it's attached to a corpus like the chabad organization's. |
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Date: June 21st, 2026 9:07 AM Author: getulio this isn't to write an apologetic for the organization as a whole either as i understand that there are quite a few abuses associated with it but on the matter of this doctrine so long as it's interpreted as i've stated it it seems sound enough outside of that, i agree that in a classical or more orthodox interpretation schneerson probably wasn't the messiah as more conservative sects understand the topic. they interpret the moschiach concept differently rather than try to fit schneerson into the mold of an orthodox understanding of the moschiach. both seem valid (i don't believe in a very prescriptive interpretation for a very, very difficult topic like that, at least not at this point in time) |
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Date: June 20th, 2026 11:12 PM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., I read something that 90% of Chabad people at least secretly think he’s the messiah. So The median Chabad guy is the same as the yellow flag extremist in his neshama (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5876074&forum_id=2/#49952645) |
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Date: June 20th, 2026 11:16 PM Author: getulio In their doctrine, he is, but it's an atypical interpretation. I could be wrong. but Schneerson himself was very open ended about it and I don't recall him ever confirming or denying his claim. There may be instances of messiahs after him, and there were instances of Messiahdom before him, and frankly because Chabad doctrine is an odd mix of ortho right and reform left belief the way they seem to view the essence of Moschiach is not unlike the Christian "Holy spirit" or what have you, and there is sufficient grounding in verse to syncretize the two imo. To me it seems like a very Solomonic sort of interpretation of the fundamental concepts involved where these things are being defined by their suffusion of spirit (Sufism is also big on this fwiw) rather than the more concrete or literalist or even Davidic interpretation. I think because we come from more conservative or traditionalist interpretations with more of an emphasis on the OT/Torah words as written it's more difficult to understand the different lens that that sect uses to define the concept. |
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Date: June 20th, 2026 11:08 PM Author: Brother Peter Dimond what % of them believe that in you estimation? some say almost all of them, sounds like you might think they do too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5876074&forum_id=2/#49952633) |
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Date: June 20th, 2026 11:09 PM Author: getulio I do think there's a personality cult around him and that gets sort of mixed up with the religious devotion (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5876074&forum_id=2/#49952639) |
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Date: June 20th, 2026 11:23 PM Author: getulio A lot of these Chabad guys came from Eastern European countries under Marxist-Leninist regimes (lot of Russians and Poles in Chabad iirc) and that emphasis on the Soviet style personality cult probably stayed with them after they either moved out or opened up ties to western organizations and minyans or what have you It's probably more of a cultural predilection than a strictly religious one, and it's not one that I necessarily consider to be idolatrous or morally corrosive (perhaps on a long enough timeline, but for now it's too early to tell) to the strictures of the practice as its practiced within their communities. |
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Date: June 20th, 2026 11:13 PM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., As I said above, I’ve read 90% are at least closeted about it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5876074&forum_id=2/#49952652) |
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Date: June 21st, 2026 8:26 AM Author: getulio i'd hazard a guess that you could ask a slim majority "Was Schneerson moschiach?" and the answer would be "Yes, but..." and that "but" goes off in a very different but still arch-Jewish direction and winds up at a conclusion that I have personally, and without much bias, to be sufficiently "textually sound" and without much controversy in context. Speaking only to that specific doctrine here. If you cut them off right before the "but" as Sunnis do to certain Shias regarding the topic of imam Ali, you'd never find out the actual reasoning they have behind it and I suppose it'd sound pretty controversial or blasphemous towards more orthodox and conservative interpretations of the topic. On that matter of that specific doctrine, I'd say where their interpretation lands on the spectrum between left (liberal/reform/secularized) and right (torah-textualists/orthdoxy) it'd be somewhere in the center with some serious Z axis action, as it is quite a different but still inspired take on the idea of moschiach. Other typical Chabadnik points are a mixture of conservative and reform, but there is an internally consistent set of notions behind it if you study the scripture. The tanya is very heady and contemplative (I tend to enjoy that sort of stuff, but this was very difficult to get through in larger study sessions, though not in a bad or unpleasant way) and it's easy to see where the apparent eclecticism comes from. |