The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
|
 |
 
|
RSF how does paying for lunch/bar tab/dinner work when raging w 12 bros
Poast new message in this thread
Date: July 22nd, 2025 9:35 AM Author: Risten Seems like these big groups at fancy locales could easily have $2-5,000 bills. Do you split it, or are you with the same people enough that it all evens out, or what. Any resentment towards freeloaders who never reach for the check? |
 |
Date: July 22nd, 2025 9:39 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT Bill / # of people = price per person. Or one person pays and everyone else venmos them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121133) |
Date: July 22nd, 2025 9:37 AM Author: .,.,.....,.,.;,.,,,:,.,.,::,...,:,..;,.., CC roulette obv (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121128) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 9:40 AM Author: fulano im curious about this too. the complication imo would be the random sluts that get brought along to each meal. they are obviously not paying for anything but I wonder if there is a slutmax or something where the guy paying is like 4 sluts tops bro you brought like 9 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121135) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 9:43 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT Girls who aren’t someone’s date are expected to pay. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121142) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 10:41 AM Author: Risten Wow (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121332) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 10:43 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT No freelunch for birdbrains, stop simping for slits (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121336) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:03 AM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121395) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:06 AM Author: Risten I don't interact with "women" or others hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121406) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:23 AM Author: Metal Up Your Ass this reminded me of when Tony was getting revenge on his neighbor and kept calling him "cooze". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121469) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:32 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT 180 ep (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121502) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:23 PM Author: richard clock (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121661) |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2025 8:08 AM Author: Trump Tariffs Can Do No Wrong (TDNW) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49124045) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:02 AM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., are there ever collection issues? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121391) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:04 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT I've been in St. Trop since May and we have had ONE incident on Bastille Day. By the end of the eve all $ was collected except for one entitled birdbrain insisting she didn't eat or drink so shouldn't have to pay (she did both). It was a comically low per person at that table though, so for that to be total slippage for the summer to date is pretty good. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121397) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:10 AM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., rofl everyone should gang rape her (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121420) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:13 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT We have a 150+ person group chat for summer. She was named and shamed then expelled from the group. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121427) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:14 AM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., was she hot? pics? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121433) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:15 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT I’d say 7.5, no pics. Part of her shunning was insta unfollows. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121437) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:20 AM Author: .,.,.....,.,.;,.,,,:,.,.,::,...,:,..;,.., dude you're like 42 and still doing this retarded shit? be an adult. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121455) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:21 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT Yea much more sensible to text 16 people individually to confirm plans bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121461) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:28 AM Author: .,.,.....,.,.;,.,,,:,.,.,::,...,:,..;,.., sensible would be to spend the summers in your 40s doing shit with your kids and family (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121482) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:29 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT Cool story bro, you realize many of these people have kids and are still able to have their own lives right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121486) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:37 AM Author: .,.,.....,.,.;,.,,,:,.,.,::,...,:,..;,.., i'm sure many of them are shitty parents (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121522) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:38 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT No longer living once you have kids is a very cucky and uniquely American concept (amongst cucky loser Americans only). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121526) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:50 AM Author: .,.,.....,.,.;,.,,,:,.,.,::,...,:,..;,.., I played 54 holes of competitive amateur golf this weekend and consumed multiple domestic beers plus a cobb salad and a patty melt. and yea, everyone knows euros are shit people with a shit culture who raise shitty kids. not new jersey bad but up there.
spending time with family instead of getting drunk with foreign weirdos you barely know isn't "not living" you weird as fuck jewbag. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:53 AM Author: toll job (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121566) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:56 AM Author: columbo luis (🧐) I played 54 holes of competitive amateur golf this weekend and consumed multiple domestic beers plus a cobb salad and a patty melt tp (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121575) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:07 PM Author: Judas Jones (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121612) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:00 PM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT You sound as furious as i’d imagine you are after doing that (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121584) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:06 PM Author: .,.,.....,.,.;,.,,,:,.,.,::,...,:,..;,.., last match was 14 straight holes before we finally halved one. patty melt was 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121608) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 1:11 PM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., Once wife is done nursing after a year, wife and I plan on taking a big summer 2026 trip. Should we go to Roland Garros? Madagascar? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121841) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 2:08 PM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT RG + Trop (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49122032) |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2025 8:11 AM Author: Trump Tariffs Can Do No Wrong (TDNW) Madagascar has like 90% dirt/mud roads
not cr with small kids |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2025 8:16 AM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., we'd be leaving them with the grandparents bro. not going to any of these places with small kids. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49124055) |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2025 8:25 AM Author: Trump Tariffs Can Do No Wrong (TDNW) both of you ditching your 1 yo is an asshole thing to do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49124066) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:12 AM Author: fulano you guys should have brought tommy out and then everyone promise to venmo him but never do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121426) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:13 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT Nah i’d have covered TT of he came but he REFUSED (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121428) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:14 AM Author: fulano That is NOT content creation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121436) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:31 AM Author: columbo luis (🧐) very sad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121501) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:21 AM Author: Metal Up Your Ass I assume guys are expected to pay for their dates? Or does the group cover it?
I know this will seem retarded to some, but ive been out with some retards, both male and female. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:28 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT Guys cover their date unless the date is covering herself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121484) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 9:46 AM Author: Malicious Pedophile Crew (MPC) (gunneratttt) its stunning how autistic and antisocial xo is. how can you make it to middle age and not know how group dining works. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121147) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 10:51 AM Author: fulano this is a perfectly fine sociological question. venmo typically gets used by proles who want reimbursement for a $3 cup of coffee. totally would be normal for someone to foot the $5k bill and not expect anything in return |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:07 AM Author: Malicious Pedophile Crew (MPC) (gunneratttt) ive never once had anyone not have venmo except for luddites like lex who avoid tech as much as possible. and they generally carry cash for these situations.
all the dudes either throw their cards in the middle and split it evenly, or one guy pays and everyone venmos him. unless there is some gross disproportionately (sobermo dining while other rage, lower income pal, etc), which is mitigated on a case by case basis.
this all came up somewhat recently in a doodikoff thread and it was eye-opening how poorly socialized poasters are on average. its a good reminder to take what's poasted here with a grain of salt. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:11 AM Author: fulano when i go out to a dinner in MFH (amongst a certain set) there is almost always a person who pays the entire bill. i can only think of one instance where we split it and it was actually kind of embarrasing for everyone.
no reason the RAGE bros in St Trop wouldnt adopt this same method of just rotating the bill. its not some socially clueless question |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:14 AM Author: Malicious Pedophile Crew (MPC) (gunneratttt) ok fair enough. coincidentally that was the result in the doodikoff thread too.
i interpreted this as more of a "how does group dining work?" rather than "split or rotate payor?" |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:14 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT That works better with smaller groups and we do that in St. Barth. Not everyone is in town long enough to rotate through with a group of 16. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121435) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:25 AM Author: Judas Jones That's because you're out for dinner as part of a group of catamites for a David Geffenesque rich daddy figure (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121473) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:27 AM Author: Risten Was lusting after a person this morning and realized I was making Obongo/catamite face (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121480) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:28 AM Author: fulano i'm no longer the catamite and now give back (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121481) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:28 AM Author: Judas Jones (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121483) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:14 PM Author: columbo luis (🧐) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121635) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 1:21 PM Author: Master P?s Apotheosis (No Future) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121877) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:17 AM Author: Risten Throwing in cards for 6+ people seems prole to me and not even allowed at some places. And venmoing definitely seems prole and a buzzkill. So crass, scrolling through venmo to see if everyone venmoed their share.
When vacationing or hanging out for multiple days with friends, I much prefer the notion of "I've got this one" and it all evens out because we are white and hang out enough that there are multiple things and people want to do their share and not shirk. But that seems harder in the huge groups RSF describes where people flit in and out. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:22 AM Author: Malicious Pedophile Crew (MPC) (gunneratttt) yeah you're right. fulano is correct i missed the point of this thread. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121464) |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2025 8:02 AM Author: Paralegal Muhammad Perhaps you’re the one who’s poorly-socialized and Losery, champ. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49124042) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:03 AM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., no we dont know how group dining works among 9-fig net worth playboys (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121393) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:12 AM Author: Malicious Pedophile Crew (MPC) (gunneratttt) this bort is supposed to be for prestigious lolyers now 10+ years into their career which means not only should people have had plenty of experience dining with richmos but they should be umc enough that dining is not an expense they put much thought into (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121425) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:13 AM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., rofl @ this. biglaw service ptnrs arent on the same stratosphere as idle rich rsf types worth 9 figs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121430) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:16 AM Author: Malicious Pedophile Crew (MPC) (gunneratttt) theyre rich enough that they shouldn't get anxiety over bill splitting.
they do care because they're nebbish dork beancounters. im saying they shouldnt. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:17 AM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., who cares what you or i think. neither of us know how things work in rsf's world. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121444) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:21 AM Author: Malicious Pedophile Crew (MPC) (gunneratttt) yes i do, see: you should have experience dining with richmos.
im sure not everyone in rsfs social circle is independently wealthy. but if they are, its not like richmos dont rage with umc wagecucks. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:23 AM Author: Risten Shut the fuck up gujuratttt nobody wants to hear about how ur 25 person desi family divvies up the mutter paneer during diwali (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121468) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:26 AM Author: Malicious Pedophile Crew (MPC) (gunneratttt) im talking about raging with my fellow whites and white-adjacent bros. dining with my family is a complete shitshow. jeets are embarassingly stingy at every socioeconomic tier. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121479) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:30 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT Have not dined with a jeet yet this summer! We had a NOWAG from Singapore and a NOWAGETTE who I believe was Viet at various points though…oh also two American NOWAGettes I believe one was KOLEAN, not sure about the other. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121494) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:43 AM Author: Malicious Pedophile Crew (MPC) (gunneratttt) when whites are seated jeets and gooks instinctually take a deferential posture. its baked into our dna and ancestetial memories at this point. the jeet who dutifully venmos an even split will calculate and pay only their actual consumption when with their own kind. right down to counting # of samosas consumed in a shared plate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121542) |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2025 8:13 AM Author: Paralegal Muhammad Are you actually Indian? Gtfo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49124049) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 1:14 PM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., Devastating (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121850) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:24 PM Author: michael doodikoff most of my richmo friends (including some ultra richmos) act just like they ever did in these situations when it comes to splitting bills fairly, and they certainly do not like being taken advantage of by leeches. Only difference is that sometimes the ultra richmos will take the entire bill, and we all buy them lots of drinks and thank them profusely afterward. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121663) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:18 AM Author: .,.,.....,.,.;,.,,,:,.,.,::,...,:,..;,.., easy part of country club life is there is none of that nuance. you don't even get a bill or sign anything once you're done eating/boozing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121450) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:25 PM Author: richard clock cr, everyone just throws a card at let it do. it's fine. only if the place has some gay policy about splitting do you need to worry about venmo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121668) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:29 PM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT CR. Here it’s all tap tap so they bring the bill and we divide by # of people including a reasonable tip if deserved and everyone taps and signs. Takes like 2min (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121680) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:35 AM Author: fulano rsf where do you guys all stay? huge houses for 30 people or all you all scattered around the city? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121512) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:36 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT Not practical to have one house since some people come for 5 days and i’ve been here since May. Rotating groups usually sort their lodging together for the week they roll in. Long term residents do their own thing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121516) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:41 AM Author: Risten What's the yacht situation? Friends with legit oligarch yachts? Or tiny pink rentals? Or "yachts are soooo played out ljl" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121538) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 11:46 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT Some generally older people w GIGAYACHTS which are fun for parties (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121549) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 1:15 PM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., Do you own any boats?
I know a former employment lawyer who has a knack for boat buying and could help you buy one. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 2:07 PM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT Have already (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49122031) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 2:48 PM Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,. 180. DESCRIBE the boat. I'm considering doing the boat club thing but a have a neighbor who I'm friends with who is shopping for a boat right now (28'). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49122190) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:02 PM Author: """'"'"""'' you know this jewish man itemizes everything and if any of his "bros" are a nickel short they are excommunicated in perpetuity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121588) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:10 PM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT You need to pick a position my man you’ve claimed in the past I pay for everyone so they hang out w me and now that I invoice them to the cent or boot them, which is it? Can’t be both. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121618) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:11 PM Author: """'"'"""'' ur confusing me with a different quotemo. I would never accuse you of paying for others. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121624) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:14 PM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT Lol k (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121633) |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:16 PM Author: """'"'"""'' ???
My position on you has been very clear since the day you were outed. You are clearly jewish and embody all jewish traits and positions, which includes bill splitting. thank you for your attention to this matter. |
|
Date: July 22nd, 2025 12:20 PM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT So to be clear since splitting bills is “jewish,” the proper thing here is to just cover everyone’s entire summer from May through Aug. Cool. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49121652) |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2025 8:27 AM Author: Trump Tariffs Can Do No Wrong (TDNW) clsg would pay the whole thing and collect the venmos, then expense the whole amount
I knew another fag from LA who did this all the time |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2025 8:28 AM Author: The Soo CR National Champions JUGGERNAUT And calculate the venmo to cover his share and then brag about how generous he is (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5753289&forum_id=2],#49124071) |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2025 8:40 AM Author: Trump Tariffs Can Do No Wrong (TDNW) yes that too
and he would give the tip in cash just to impress the minions cuz he’s so cool |
|
Date: July 23rd, 2025 8:43 AM Author: ...,,..;...,,..,..,...,,,;.., MFEs: are there IRS regs on this?
seems kosher. the meal is a business expense, and the venmos back to him are personal gifts.
biz meals are at 50%. the IRS obv doesnt care about this shit anyway. |