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WSJ debunks female hypergamy & attacks men looksmaxxing

When Joel Stein was a teenager, he was woefully ignorant of ...
naked rusted skinny woman
  04/08/26
fuck these creepy old jews and boomers these kids should ...
irradiated jew lay
  04/08/26
looksmaxxing should come naturally from athletic- or adventu...
vigorous nofapping stag film
  04/08/26
...
Boyish idiot quadroon
  04/08/26
poast the text, faggot
Dark Library Factory Reset Button
  04/08/26
Can’t. On my phone and don’t have subscription
naked rusted skinny woman
  04/08/26
By Joel Stein April 5, 2026 12:00 pm ET When I was a t...
vigorous nofapping stag film
  04/08/26
why did Joel Stein write this
curious jewess dingle berry
  04/08/26
he's a creepy old jewish boomer
irradiated jew lay
  04/08/26
It’s objectively well written and funny. Sorry.
hairless bateful senate
  04/08/26
yeah I actually "read" it and the article has basi...
saffron genital piercing
  04/08/26
moderately funny in that very jewish way tp - The Autoadm...
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
...
Indecent bearded kitchen
  04/08/26
...
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
I'm Amalek btw
curious jewess dingle berry
  04/08/26
...
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
...
saffron genital piercing
  04/09/26
it reads made up as fuck
sienna goal in life
  04/08/26
Many such cases!
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
the "debunking" of female hypergamy is always &quo...
racy fluffy alpha parlour
  04/08/26
get back on the Beta Male Provider Plantation, goy
irradiated jew lay
  04/08/26
i'll have you know that my wife and i have a deep, genuine r...
racy fluffy alpha parlour
  04/08/26
...
Aphrodisiac Up-to-no-good Piazza Lettuce
  04/08/26
"Women aren't like that. Trust me, I know."
abnormal nighttime mad-dog skullcap
  04/08/26
...
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
Is male online poastmaxxing acceptable to Talmudic-American ...
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
...
curious jewess dingle berry
  04/08/26
...
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
cq
irradiated jew lay
  04/08/26
...
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
...
Indecent bearded kitchen
  04/08/26
...
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
"Even if this is true,"
saffron genital piercing
  04/08/26
...
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
...
Aromatic jet den trust fund
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Aromatic jet den trust fund
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irradiated jew lay
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Aromatic jet den trust fund
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Aromatic jet den trust fund
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Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
tp
Aromatic jet den trust fund
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Poppy Double Fault
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Aromatic jet den trust fund
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Poppy Double Fault
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Aromatic jet den trust fund
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Poppy Double Fault
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startled half-breed
  04/08/26
...
Aromatic jet den trust fund
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Poppy Double Fault
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Aromatic jet den trust fund
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Poppy Double Fault
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...
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
...
Aromatic jet den trust fund
  04/08/26
Gorgeous-souled Pumo tp :-)
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
...
big-titted business firm
  04/08/26
...
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
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pontificating black woman reading party
  04/08/26
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Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
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pontificating black woman reading party
  04/08/26
...
Trip emerald roommate set
  04/09/26
lookmaxxing is rape culture and needs to be banned.
Claret voyeur
  04/08/26
(tp.)
Poppy Double Fault
  04/08/26
this topic is really boring now, it's basically an absurd pa...
opaque nowag school
  04/09/26
It’s a funny spin on it to me to have an aggressively ...
Provocative Frum Water Buffalo Lodge
  04/09/26


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 12:50 PM
Author: naked rusted skinny woman

When Joel Stein was a teenager, he was woefully ignorant of his facial width-to-height ratio.

Today many boys measure the space between their eyes and the angle from their chin to their neck, rating themselves from Chad to midtier normie. They are running a spreadsheet of stats on their own looks, following the theory that romance works the exact same way as fantasy-league football.

This is part of the manosphere, called looksmaxxing. The idea is that 20% of the men get 80% of the women and they want to attract as many as possible. They are certain that joining this 20% is largely based on your looks.

Even if this is true in today’s online dating world, it’s dangerously short-term thinking, like buying a memecoin with your sex life.

🔗 Read more: https://on.wsj.com/48t6y34

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49803839)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 12:53 PM
Author: irradiated jew lay

fuck these creepy old jews and boomers

these kids should be celebrated

https://x.com/GoySuperstar/status/2041885615269277845

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49803850)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:17 PM
Author: vigorous nofapping stag film

looksmaxxing should come naturally from athletic- or adventure-maxxing

otherwise it's retarded feminine-like vanity

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49803947)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:23 PM
Author: Boyish idiot quadroon



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49803979)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 12:57 PM
Author: Dark Library Factory Reset Button

poast the text, faggot

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49803866)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:09 PM
Author: naked rusted skinny woman

Can’t. On my phone and don’t have subscription

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49803935)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:13 PM
Author: vigorous nofapping stag film

By Joel Stein

April 5, 2026 12:00 pm ET

When I was a teenager, I was woefully ignorant of my facial width-to-height ratio. Today many boys measure the space between their eyes and the angle from their chin to their neck, rating themselves from Chad to midtier normie. They are running a spreadsheet of stats on their own looks, following the theory that romance works the exact same way as fantasy-league football.

This part of the manosphere, called looksmaxxing, has even spread to my 16-year-old son’s liberal, private Los Angeles high school. Their hero is Clavicular, the 20-year-old looksmaxxing live streamer with nearly one million Instagram followers, who pushes extreme beauty products—methamphetamines, steroids, and a hammer to break your jaw bone so it regrows stronger—and who was recently arrested in Florida on a battery charge.

This all seems like a good idea. But I would like to add a warning from someone who did an older version of looksmaxxing.

No, I didn’t have leg lengthening surgery, take peptides or even mew, the basic looksmaxxing exercise of pushing your tongue against the roof of your mouth to strengthen your jaw muscles. But I did work out four days a week with a celebrity trainer, text every gram I consumed to a nutritionist and got hair transplant surgery. I wrote about this in a GQ magazine article which was accompanied by professional photographs of my shirtless body.

I have maintained many of these habits and a few of my six pack. And I have come from the future to warn all the young men that this is a bad idea in the long-term. I have returned as the first looksminning influencer.

Though their obsessions with moisturizers and eyebrow grooming seem pretty girlie to someone of my generation, looksmaxxing is rooted in objectification. The idea is that 20% of the men get 80% of the women and they want to attract as many as possible. They are certain that joining this 20% is largely based on your looks.

Even if this is true in today’s online dating world, it’s dangerously short-term thinking, like buying a memecoin with your sex life.

On average, dating lasts for less than 20% of your adult life. You’re with your spouse for more than 60% of adulthood. And looking great is one of the worst things you can do for your marriage.

When I first told my lovely wife Cassandra about my plans to proto-looksmax 11 years ago, she said, “Oh, great. Now I have to get in shape.” I had been expecting something more along the lines of “Can I help by incentivizing you with sex?” or “Let’s work out right now on this bed!”

Instead, as soon as I started to get a tiny bit of muscle definition, Cassandra became self-conscious, insisting on turning the lights off during sex. Which was also suddenly less often. “This has really backfired on you,” she told me.

Even worse than not wanting to be intimate with me, Cassandra didn’t want to go out to dinner with me either, because of my carb-watching. I told her that I could go to any restaurant and find something to order. Which just made her angrier.

“I hate those women who are like, ‘It’s OK. I’ll order a salad with no dressing, and I won’t drink.’ I don’t want to go out to eat with that person. That person isn’t fun. That person makes me feel bad for eating a steak frites.”

When I told my trainer about Cassandra’s reaction, he was not surprised. The wives of some of his clients—including actors who needed to get ripped for roles as superheroes—had tried to sabotage them by baking desserts.

After losing weight for his “Guardians of the Galaxy” role, Chris Pratt told an interviewer in 2015 that his then-wife Anna Faris wasn’t happy. “Part of her is hedging her bets that one day I’ll be fat again, and she’ll say, ’Remember, honey, I always told you I preferred you this way.’”

Orna Guralnik, the clinical psychologist who hosts Showtime’s “Couples Therapy,” told me that a couple on the upcoming season of “Couples Therapy” dealt with this dynamic. “Her husband was losing weight and she was finding it unnerving. Until she started losing weight,” she said. This sounds like the kind of thing that is more likely to happen when you are being taped for a TV show.

But Guralnik also said that “there are plenty of women that are desperate for their husbands to look better,” she said. “And when they look better, sex gets better.” Likewise, Emily Morse, the host of the Sex with Emily podcast said that as long as you’re not obsessing, looksmaxxing can be a plus. “Confidence is attractive. Self absorption is not.”

I’m sure that improving your relationship by looking better is possible. But close your eyes and picture a happy fat couple eating cake and watching “Couples Therapy.” Now try to picture a happy thin couple running marathons, eating power gel and smashing their jaws with hammers.

How do you looksmin? Luckily, it’s really easy. You’re going to want to consume a lot of instant ramen doused with soy sauce so the sodium gives you moonface, hiding any hint of a zygomatic arch. For the rest of your calories, try to drink them so your jaw doesn’t get a workout. Don’t exercise at all. Not just because of the muscle building, but because you might break a bone, which apparently is a huge advantage to your looks. You want to keep your bones nice and weak so that when your perimenopausal wife frets about bone density, you can, too.

Stay up really late so you wake up with the kind of high upper eyelid exposure that gives you Prey Eyes. Develop a forward head hunch. This might sound like a lot, but it can all be accomplished by getting a desk job.

And don’t get complacent with your dad bod. You’ve got to accessorize with long shorts, football jerseys, ankle socks and high-tops. Have you ever seen a divorced man dressed like this? Of course not. Looksminning has been unwittingly developed in the labs of happily married suburban dads for decades.

Here’s something else they know: how to self-mog. If you run across a professional athlete, pose for a photo standing right next to him, beta-smiling in admiration, and post it on social media. Put a framed copy on your desk. Maybe slip it onto your wife’s bedside table. And know that, if that athlete is married, you’re getting way more action than he is.

Copyright ©2026 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49803940)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:46 PM
Author: curious jewess dingle berry

why did Joel Stein write this

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804091)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:52 PM
Author: irradiated jew lay

he's a creepy old jewish boomer

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804106)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 3:56 PM
Author: hairless bateful senate

It’s objectively well written and funny. Sorry.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804596)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 4:12 PM
Author: saffron genital piercing

yeah I actually "read" it and the article has basically nothing to do with looksmaXXXing per se. it's moderately funny in that very jewish way, fwiw ymmv

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804623)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 4:21 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault

moderately funny in that very jewish way tp

- The Autoadmit.com Story (I've really liked it here)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804640)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 9:24 PM
Author: Indecent bearded kitchen



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49805460)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 9:24 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49805461)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 5:59 PM
Author: curious jewess dingle berry

I'm Amalek btw



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804945)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 6:00 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804950)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 9th, 2026 8:57 AM
Author: saffron genital piercing



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49806106)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 6:15 PM
Author: sienna goal in life

it reads made up as fuck

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49805000)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 6:16 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault

Many such cases!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49805004)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:19 PM
Author: racy fluffy alpha parlour

the "debunking" of female hypergamy is always "well, yes, 20% of guys, or less, do get 80% of women, or more, but eventually women get old and desirable guys lose interest in them and an old, run through woman might be willing to extract resources from you, so, uh, female hypergamy is debunked"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49803958)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:20 PM
Author: irradiated jew lay

get back on the Beta Male Provider Plantation, goy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49803962)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:22 PM
Author: racy fluffy alpha parlour

i'll have you know that my wife and i have a deep, genuine relationship that red pill incels can only dream of. i give her all my resources and do what she says and she looks at me with barely disguised contempt

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49803972)



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Date: April 8th, 2026 1:23 PM
Author: Aphrodisiac Up-to-no-good Piazza Lettuce



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49803978)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:36 PM
Author: abnormal nighttime mad-dog skullcap

"Women aren't like that. Trust me, I know."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804039)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:45 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804324)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:25 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault

Is male online poastmaxxing acceptable to Talmudic-American sensibilities? Asking for a friend

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49803987)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:37 PM
Author: curious jewess dingle berry



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804045)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:13 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804193)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 1:38 PM
Author: irradiated jew lay

cq

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804051)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:13 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804192)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 9:25 PM
Author: Indecent bearded kitchen



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49805464)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 9:26 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49805467)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:05 PM
Author: saffron genital piercing

"Even if this is true,"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804147)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:13 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804196)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:34 PM
Author: Aromatic jet den trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804276)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:44 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804323)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:51 PM
Author: Aromatic jet den trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804361)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 3:12 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804434)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:18 PM
Author: irradiated jew lay



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804207)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:20 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804221)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:47 PM
Author: Aromatic jet den trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804335)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:49 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804340)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:50 PM
Author: Aromatic jet den trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804355)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 3:12 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804435)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:35 PM
Author: Aromatic jet den trust fund

tp

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804278)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:44 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804322)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:47 PM
Author: Aromatic jet den trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804334)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:49 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804342)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:50 PM
Author: Aromatic jet den trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804358)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 3:12 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804436)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:47 PM
Author: startled half-breed



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804332)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:48 PM
Author: Aromatic jet den trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804338)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:49 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804343)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:51 PM
Author: Aromatic jet den trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804364)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 3:10 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804432)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:48 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804339)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 2:50 PM
Author: Aromatic jet den trust fund



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804351)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 3:11 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault

Gorgeous-souled Pumo tp :-)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804433)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 3:13 PM
Author: big-titted business firm



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804444)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 3:14 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804446)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 6:35 PM
Author: pontificating black woman reading party



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49805075)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 6:35 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49805076)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 9:15 PM
Author: pontificating black woman reading party



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49805442)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 9th, 2026 8:07 AM
Author: Trip emerald roommate set



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49806031)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 8th, 2026 4:22 PM
Author: Claret voyeur

lookmaxxing is rape culture and needs to be banned.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804643)



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Date: April 8th, 2026 5:35 PM
Author: Poppy Double Fault

(tp.)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49804885)



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Date: April 9th, 2026 8:09 AM
Author: opaque nowag school

this topic is really boring now, it's basically an absurd partisan loop like US politics:

"women are liek that" - young single Loser

"nuh uh you're just an incel" - cucky wifeguy betadood

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49806033)



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Date: April 9th, 2026 11:55 AM
Author: Provocative Frum Water Buffalo Lodge

It’s a funny spin on it to me to have an aggressively rat-faced Gen X Jew as the wifeguy. “Yeah sure my ethnic group actively shames and guilt trips any Jewish women as traitors/ties the entire lineage of our people to their wombs, and looks the other way when Jewish guys pursue goy women even very prominent Jews like Zuckerberg who openly advertises his Asian fetish, but I don’t see what that has to do with anything.”

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5855021&forum_id=2],#49806409)