The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
|
 |
 
|
The more I learn about the Trump trial the more I realize its all fraud and lies
Poast new message in this thread
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:03 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king They literally cannot prove a crime occurred. The entire case is based on subjective opinion and hearsay. They don't have Trump anywhere saying, "Would you please pay off Stormy Daniels with my election money? I need her to keep quiet so I can win the Presidency. And definitely hide it so no one finds out. Make it a fake line item. I will sign off on this once it's done."
I mean... it's having to prove so many different subjective elements. It's so crazy. It's all interpretation. There's no factual basis for a crime and no legal basis. There's neither legal nor evidentiary basis of a crime. Not any. Who is the victim of the non-crime? The people of New York? Who were defrauded by the not fraud? Unbelievable. |
 |
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:07 AM Author: disturbing naked parlour "Election money" wasn't even used. The whole case is based on the theory that using his OWN money to shut a whore up was an unreported campaign contribution and it "unlawfully influenced" the election because accounting entries made after the election said "legal services" instead of "stormy daniels hush money." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659682) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:11 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king Ridiculous. At this point Trump can't lose. If he's acquitted they look like clowns for bringing forth the charges. If they convict him on something so abysmally ticky-tack then he will shoot up wildly in the polls. No one in America, not even shitlibs want this. The only people who think they want this are the screeching TDS MSNBC NPR watching crowd and even they will come to rue it in time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659691) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:03 PM Author: Chartreuse slimy forum tattoo seems like shitlibs want this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660723) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:20 AM Author: Peach Aromatic Senate So their position is that he SHOULD have used campaign money (not personal funds) to pay her off??
C’mon. If he’d done that they’d have charged him with misusing his campaign funds. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:31 AM Author: nubile newt Their position is his quarterly campaign filing should have listed the hush money payment (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660098) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:43 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native even if it should have come from the campaign, there is no evidence that trump directed it to come from his personal funds knowing that.
“I don’t know if you know but I tweeted about the payments,” Trump said in the "Fox & Friends" interview, pushing back. “But they didn’t come out of the campaign. In fact, my first question when I heard about it was, did they come out of the campaign, because that could be a little dicey. And they didn’t come out of the campaign and that’s big.”
He added: “But they weren’t .... that’s not even a campaign violation.”
if trump *knew* the funds were supposed to come from campaign funds, why would he go public saying that they came from his personal; funds as a defense? even if the funds should have come from the campaign, and trump directed they come from his personal funds, the evidence shows that he *thought* that was proper! there is no evidence that even if he directed them to come from his personal funds there was criminal intent! |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:38 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Cr see, e.g., Carbanez v. United States, 233 U.S. 568, 574 (1985) ("Since the founding of the United States, it has been well established that our Constitution does not countenance the conviction of a citizen under a criminal statute unless the prosecution can identify the victim of the purported crime.")
Zero chance a conviction withstands appeal. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:04 PM Author: Chartreuse slimy forum tattoo *DUI driver, slurring to the cop* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660729) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:05 PM Author: odious shimmering property karate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47662409) |
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:06 AM Author: vigorous awkward office boiling water It's easily one of the worst cases I've ever seen brought. Usually when there's a politically motivated trial it happens with the tiniest amount of an understanding that an actual crime has to have occurred. Here there's literally nothing.
I don't know why libs didn't just stick to the insurrection stuff. That was also basically flame but at least close to an actual crime. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:33 AM Author: citrine rough-skinned church genital piercing In all seriousness it was a big mistake to cheer on these local-yokel state prosecutions. Not only do they diminish the credibility of your actual federal prosecutions (brought by a real, basically politically independent H-grad with smart, ton-of-the-line assistants), now they're actually pushing them back past election day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660448) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:45 PM Author: vigorous awkward office boiling water At least the Georgia case has something approximating a real crime being committed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661060) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:31 PM Author: brilliant alpha They always knew any charges they brought were getting thrown out on appeal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661028) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:05 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Care to make a little wager, my friend? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661114) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 6:59 PM Author: Bisexual affirmative action I hoap Trump goes to federal fuck me in the ass prison, even if for just one day. Show the world what a banana republic we've turned into (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661807) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:20 AM Author: Aphrodisiac wild meetinghouse It's insane what's happened to this country. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659696) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:14 AM Author: chocolate soul-stirring area kitty cat Couldn’t happen to more deserving human swine. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659810) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:29 AM Author: Smoky travel guidebook macaca But it sounds SOOO bad the way the media portrays it. HUSH money. Ooohhhh that sounds so illegal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659702) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:33 AM Author: dull masturbator blood rage MSM is doing free marketing for Stormy’s OF page (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659707) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:33 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king After all, it is THE Trump "Hush Money" Trial!!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659708) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:05 AM Author: salmon deer antler set The weird thing is Stormy won't shut up about it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659805) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:34 AM Author: Supple Ceo Gas Station I was somewhat mocked for this and admittedly don't understand crim procedure, but i don't get how the fuck this this is in front of a jury?
What is the jury even deciding here? It seems like the facts are pretty clear, and the prosecution can't really even articulate what the crime is.
It's 100% going to be in appeals for decades over like 30 different issues with the prosecution's case. It seems crazy to have this "trial" now where it seems like the jury is just going to decide if they feel like Trump committed an undefined federal crime (because the NY AG can't charge that crime and doesn't seem to be even articulating what that crime is...) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:35 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king Trump said they had 8 years to bring these charges and only did it now for political reasons. Seems blatantly obvious. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659710) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:41 AM Author: Supple Ceo Gas Station That's one of the huge issues for appeals.
The NY charges are actually a misdemeanor and the SOL has run out of them.
They need to show the fraud was part of a crime to get it to a felony - but they're relying on a federal crime to get the NY crime to a felony (otherwise the NY crime is outside the SOL).
This stuff is really a house of cards. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:44 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king I am hoping for the jury to return the correct verdict and nip it in the bud. But yeah it's a reach. It's obviously a misdemeanor. You also have the fact that there is no way possible the state would be looking into some random guy for this crime from 8 years ago if it wasn't their political opponent. I believe Hunter actually had some charges dropped because they said that it would be unreasonable for them to have investigated a regular person for so long on it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659718) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:48 AM Author: Supple Ceo Gas Station It's not even a misdemeanor.
Here is a good article on how convoluted the case is:
https://news.syr.edu/blog/2024/05/07/law-professor-the-manhattan-district-attorneys-convoluted-legal-case-against-donald-trump-gets-more-convoluted/ |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:52 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king I can't even process this info it's too byzantine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659724) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:42 AM Author: Disrespectful station volcanic crater Lol wtf
there is so much in here that is insane
so they are charging him with a felony connected to a misdemeanor that was never charged and for which the SOL has long passed?
Wouldn't that just allow a prosecutor in NY to charge a felony under this statute connected to a misdemeanor that occurred like 80 years ago? If the SOL has passed then there is no time limit.
Also, they have to show "intent to defraud"...who exactly is the one he is alleged to have defrauded? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:04 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king Defendants HATE this One Weird Trick (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659804) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:24 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native it can also be attempt to conceal. if he falsified his records in an attempt to conceal a crime he would be guilty. but there is no second crime. and they know that, because otherwise he would have been *charged* with the second crime!
this is like charging someone with possession of a weapon while commiting a crime without charging them with a crime. how can he be charged with doing something to conceal a crime when he hasn't even been charged with a crime?! |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:48 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660307) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:27 PM Author: Disrespectful station volcanic crater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660592) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:39 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "but there is no second crime. and they know that, because otherwise he would have been *charged* with the second crime!"
Not how it works. I sued RT for violating RICO, but didn't sue him for civil mail fraud. You think RT has a great issue for appeal on that one? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:47 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native i'm not saying a person MUST be charged with a second crime. i'm saying that the only reason he's not charged with a second crime here is because they don't even have a singular theory on what that second crime is.
you discussed the NY election law as being a possible "second crime" below. so why wasn't he charged with that? if he did violate that law it is possible that he didn't misclassify his records to promote or conceal it. so why wouldn't they charge him with the object offense too?
answer the answer is obvious and the prosecution has pretty much just said it -- they're throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. they want to show that trump attempt to violate some amorphous, undefined "second crime." but if they actually believed he misclassified the records in further of a second crime, they'd have a theory on what that second crime is. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:52 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "because they don't even have a singular theory on what that second crime is"
Just like with the RT case, they'll have to specify this crime and its elements in the jury instructions.
"the NY election law as being a possible "second crime" below. so why wasn't he charged with that?"
I don't specifically know, but there's neither a statutory or constitutional requirement to charge a defendant with every possible crime.
"if they actually believed he misclassified the records in further of a second crime, they'd have a theory on what that second crime is"
Pretty sure this will have to be in the jury instructions. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:57 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native my point is that they don't *truly* believe trump attempted or committed a second crime, which is why they didn't charge it, and in fact refused to specify one when asked. i understand that this was done for strategic reasons. the fact that they are resorting to this strategic maneuvers to try to convict a major party candidate and former potus of a class e felony with an attenuated legal theory goes to show what their motivations are. they're not trying to uphold the law and do justice, they're trying to get trump any way they can. that's fine in civil matters. i think it's pretty disgusting they are leveraging the criminal courts in this way though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661098) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:04 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "which is why they didn't charge it"
You're just guessing here. A shorter statute of limitations on that offense would be one obvious potential answer, but there could be many other reasons.
I'm sure the Italian crime families were really mad that they didn't indict the Irish mob or whoever else, and probably felt like they were being picked on. It's not clear to me why a person should think that prosecutors should refrain from pursuing charges against people on the grounds that they're running for elected office. But FWIW, Bob Menendez agrees strongly with your position. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:07 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native you're right i'm just guessing. this was a shitpost on xo. i wasn't asserting that they legally had to charge the second crime or that this is literally the 100% reason. to be clear, i was saying that not charging him with the second crime is a strong indication that they don't believe a second crime occurred themselves. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661119) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:22 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "not charging him with the second crime is a strong indication that they don't believe"
And you'll further agree that if, for example, the SOL had passed on that by the time they got sufficient evidence from Cohen or whomever, the fact that it wasn't charged isn't an "indication" of anything at all? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:32 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native maybe in some circumstances, but not here when they had ample time to press charges before the SOL tolled. also, this is strongly rebutted by other factors such as them refusing to state what specifically is the second crime they are alleging. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661188) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 5:52 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "they had ample time to press charges before the SOL tolled"
1. "tolled" isn't the word. 2. What is the SOL on those offenses? 3. On what date did they interview Cohen and learn the details he just testified to?
It's fine that you don't know 1, but unless you know the answer to both 2 and 3, you don't have any basis to make that assertion. Since you don't have any basis for that statement, you'll have to admit that you made it without knowing whether it was true, likely because you're mad that people are being mean 2 Trump. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 6:15 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native i misspoke. see, i can take an L. i do know the difference though. when you first entered this thread i talked about how i have respected your legal analysis in threads before. but it's slipping now that you're being very weaselly and trying to use smarmy type "gotchas" rather than address the merits of what i'm saying. instead you're stooping to spacepornian "are you even a lawyer" and critiquing typos and such.
the other two don't matter. i already said whether the SOL expired or not doesn't matter. i don't know whether it has or not honestly. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:02 PM Author: Histrionic frozen degenerate were you suing him for a felony? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661109) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:06 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker No this was in civil court. But do you have the sense that prosecutors are required to pursue either all potential charges, or no charges?
The late great Al Capone is in your corner on this one. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:28 PM Author: Supple Ceo Gas Station This is a stupid logically reason fail of an argument.
Capone could be charged for failing to apy taxes on his income. You don't need the second crime.
Here the prosecutors can't charge the misdemeanor becuase of SOL, they can only charge teh felony, which can only be charged if they have a second crime. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:49 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "so they are charging him with a felony connected to a misdemeanor that was never charged and for which the SOL has long passed?
Wouldn't that just allow a prosecutor in NY to charge a felony under this statute connected to a misdemeanor that occurred like 80 years ago? If the SOL has passed then there is no time limit."
This isn't actually unusual. For example the feds often bring RICO charges where the SOL on the underlying predicate acts has long expired. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 8:44 AM Author: Iridescent Cruel-hearted Mother Abode this is excellent (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659979) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:48 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660308) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 8:59 AM Author: Jet-lagged tanning salon this explains exactly what I have been wondering about this case. Its far worse than I even expected in terms of legal stretching fuckery.
Its obvious that the goons arranging all of this from above (White House, Norm Eisen, etc) know that this was a sham case, but are using the media to blow it up as a "hush money bad" thing that they can talk about in the media and make regular people not following this complicated sham think that Trump actually did something bad. And maybe just maybe they can eek out a conviction using a biased jury. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:50 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660320) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:26 PM Author: Diverse aquamarine clown voyeur "Sir, that will be $9 -- tip not included." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661011) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:12 PM Author: indecent location From 1985 to 1988, between college and law school, Eisen worked as the assistant director of the Los Angeles office of the Anti-Defamation League. He investigated antisemitism and other civil rights violations, promoted Holocaust education and advanced U.S.–Israel relations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661126) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:29 AM Author: swashbuckling hilarious field quadroon it's 180 this one is coming early because it will delegitimize all the other trials due to public boredom heh (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659775) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 4:21 AM Author: dashing gaped factory reset button background story (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659840) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:21 AM Author: Coiffed Cordovan Liquid Oxygen Nowag Wait do you mean to say libs are evil shit for brains trash weaponizing the justice system to attack their enemies!? Wow! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659813) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:27 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king New poaster first day. Hatp. New stories. Vote hatp. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659817) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:48 AM Author: dull masturbator blood rage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659831) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:27 AM Author: Brass multi-colored hall https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659818) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 7:23 AM Author: Trip Laser Beams what sentence are they seeking? just a fine - or is there an actual potential for jail time under this statute? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659874) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:01 AM Author: Jet-lagged tanning salon I think that libs are going for jail. I think the AG (or maybe Bragg) and also the NYC mayor have made public statements about Rikers being "ready" for Trump (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660008) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:31 PM Author: Supple Ceo Gas Station If this was a regular defendant, it'd be probation. But he could get sentenced to like 40+ years in prison.
It doesn't seem out of the question given NY just fined him $500 mm for "defrauding" lenders he paid back and testified they were not defrauded. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 8:30 AM Author: tan know-it-all half-breed bbw this used to be a law board. you can more than reasonably infer his criminal intent from the evidence so far. you don’t need him on tape saying what you said and that never even happens IRL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659950) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 8:46 AM Author: Racy sepia institution you are a mentally retarded TDS brain broken jewish pedophile (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47659985) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:52 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king MANY SUCH CASES (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660323) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:46 PM Author: Submissive Snowy Stag Film I think we should just let xo’s Indian bootlickers decide what the laws are (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660656) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:52 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker xo2024: "ThERe's nO EVIdenCE!!!" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660683) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:00 PM Author: Trip Laser Beams cr we just kinda "know" he's guilty and isn't that enough? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660711) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:10 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker If there's no evidence he'll obviously be exonerated, if not by the jury then by one or another appellate court. One of the main appellate arguments in crim cases is "insufficient evidence." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660753) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:05 AM Author: costumed ruby locale I tried matching up allegation, offense and proofs with the defamation and NY Fraud trials.
None of it made any sense and all seemed like blatant overreaching. I haven't taken the time to do so with this hush money bullshit. At this point, I am just going to assume it's BS unless someone sits me down and proves that it isn't.
It all just kind of hammers home that our legal system is designed in a way that anyone who interacts with the world in any way is guilty of some offense so that if "they" want to get you, "they" can and will. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:17 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660055) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:57 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660348) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:38 AM Author: citrine rough-skinned church genital piercing Meanwhile israel is actively slaughtering literally tens of thousands of brown women and children in a 25mi x 5mi rectangle from which there's no entry or exit, and pedantically quibbling over whether Element 4 of "genocide" has really been met here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660471) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:24 PM Author: costumed ruby locale (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660583) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 4:52 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661439) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:16 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native the craziest thing about it is that even if they establish all the facts they are alleging they still lose. the indictment should have been dismissed.
even if trump personally directed for the money to come from his personal funds rather than campaign funds because he was trying to cover up the catch-and-kill scheme because he thought it was illegal, he still wins because that scheme was not illegal.
catch-and-kill schemes are not illegal. seeking to plug leaks of negative facts to influence and election is not illegal. id bet that nearly every campaign has attempted to suppress bad press in some way. whether he asked stormy not to talk about it or whether he paid her not to is irrelevant. you don't think every candidate in history has skeletons they've avoided getting public? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:18 AM Author: tan know-it-all half-breed bbw cooking the books to lie about what the money was (a hush money payment and not a fee paid to a lawyer) absolutely IS illegal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660057) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:25 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native yes. it's a misdemeanor. it's only a felony when the books were cooked to advance or conceal another crime. what is the other crime here? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660081) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:18 AM Author: tan know-it-all half-breed bbw election fraud (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660218) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:27 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native please cite authority that paying for an NDA to avoid damaging yet legal facts becoming public to influence an election is election fraud.
if trump committed election fraud with this scheme, why was he not charged with election fraud? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:25 AM Author: Racy sepia institution you are a mentally retarded TDS brain broken jewish pedophile and are probably on illicit drugs of some kind right now to the point where this retarded statement actually makes sense to you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660084) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:39 AM Author: contagious rigpig "cooking the books to lie" is just begging the question. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660126) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:46 AM Author: costumed ruby locale OK I know i said i wasn't going to do this.
Is it illegal for someone to pay another person to refrain from disclosing damaging information about a presidential candidate?
This is really the only thing that matters IMO.
Without the underlying crime, the "coverup" is just a minor internal accounting error, even if intentional, that would never in any other circumstance be prosecuted.
|
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:01 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native anyone who understands the law here but doesn't recognize this as a politically motivated witch-hunt has extreme TDS.
the federal documents case at least has merit. i think it's a politically motivated witch-hunt too, but at least in that case the facts that they allege does equal a crime. in this case, even if they establish everything, there is no felony. it's mind-boggling that this was even allowed to proceed. and it's even more mind-boggling that libs think that prosecuting trump on utter nonsense will do anything but help him. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:20 AM Author: tan know-it-all half-breed bbw tbf you think the Jan 6th and document charges are also politically motivated and that Trump did nothing wrong there so you don’t have much credibility when you claim the by charges are politically motivated (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660222) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:30 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native even havens for shitlib lawyers like lawyer subreddits believe this is bullshit. take trump out the equation and nobody who understands the law would think that a felony occurred here. even if all the facts are proven, there is no felony.
ascribe whatever motivations you want to why the charges were brought. there is no felony here even if the prosecution convinces the jury of everything they allege. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:32 PM Author: brilliant alpha Libs only cared about getting to trial. They have no expectation of winning. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661031) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:56 PM Author: Charismatic Stage Organic Girlfriend There are millions and millions of them absolutely convinced he's going to jail and they'll be saved from the bad orange man (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661097) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:39 AM Author: Jet-lagged tanning salon do we even know which federal crime they decided to tie into this? The indictment is silent on that https://manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Donald-J.-Trump-Indictment.pdf (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660124) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:05 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native nope. according to the prosecutors they don't have to charge, or even allege, what the second crime was. which is insane.
how is a layman jury supposed to even know what a crime is? people have to go to law school to get a firm understanding of what is criminal. and even then most lawyers aren't campaign finance specialists. i'm a lawyer and i wouldn't be able to tell you what is or isn't illegal in campaign finance. how the fuck is a jury supposed to know?
i can't wait to see whether the jury instructions include what the prosecution is alleging as the second crime. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:34 AM Author: Jet-lagged tanning salon Is that right? Seems insane to me
I don’t know what the criminal version of a MSJ is, but I assume that this “theory” survived whatever that MSJ would be? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:41 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native motion to dismiss an indictment
In addition, there is "no requirement that the People allege or establish what particular crime was intended." People v. Mahboubian, 74 N.Y.2d 174, 193 (1989). Rather, the People need only establish "general intent to commit [or conceal] a crime . . . not [defendant's] intent to commit [or conceal] a specific crime." People v. Thompson, 206 A.D.3d 1708, 1708 (4th Dep't 2022); see also People v. Mackey, 49 N.Y.2d 274, 279 (1980).
|
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:21 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native "The People's response to defendant's request for a Bill of Particulars stated that the identification of particular crimes that defendant may have intended to commit or conceal was "expressly without limiting the People's theory at trial." People's Resp. to Def.'s Req. for a Bill of Particulars 5 (May 12, 2023) (citing People v. Barnes, 50 N.Y.2d 375, 379 n.3 (1980)). The People adhere to this express reservation of rights here."
we can charge you with a felony and don't even have to tell you what we're accusing you of!
how the fuck can any thinking person agree with this? this is a major party candidate heading into an election. for all the lisping libs do about trump "destroying democracy." jesus christ. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:30 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king Every lib I've talked to says they have absolutely no problem with this case being brought forth. They all believe Trump would be doing the same thing if he could. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660440) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:37 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native except that he had the opportunity to when he was president and didn't. in fact, they fucking impeached him claiming that him questioning hunter bidens involvement in ukraine was politically motivated persecution -- and it turns out hunters involvement *was* grift! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660467) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:40 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king "except that he had the opportunity to when he was president and didn't"
But we, the MSNBC watching soyboys of America, know that he is literally, literally Hitler. You will never convince these people otherwise. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:26 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native this time they're probably right though. i hope trump takes the high road, but it's completely in his character and frankly justifiable to employ the same means the libs employed against him.
that's another thing. why are they poking the bear? trump is a catty bitch. if you're going to come at the future king, you best not miss. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:19 PM Author: Jet-lagged tanning salon wholly shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660569) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:40 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Is that what you think is required? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660637) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:45 AM Author: Boyish violet temple The more I learn about the Trump trial the more upset I am about Trump's disrespect of Judge Merchan (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660146) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 9:47 AM Author: costumed ruby locale (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660152) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:10 AM Author: azure bespoke home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660201) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:50 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660318) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:51 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660321) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:28 PM Author: Diverse aquamarine clown voyeur le happy merchan (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661018) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 8:36 PM Author: motley space mediation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47662051) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:22 AM Author: tan know-it-all half-breed bbw cr without Trump on tape specifically admitting to each and every element of the crime there is no case. check mate libs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660416) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:31 AM Author: Racy sepia institution there isn't even a "crime" to admit to you mentally retarded jewish pedophile. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660441) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:26 AM Author: hairraiser sadistic jap even with three or four lolyers on the panel, there is NO way this jury will comprehend what is necessary to apply facts to these laws and render a verdict.
this is a feature, not a bug, for the prosecution, because what the verdict becomes is "trump: yay or nay"
and they get to do it in manhattan
|
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:13 PM Author: Chartreuse slimy forum tattoo This is what I had assumed as well. The charge is really complicated, so you just get it to the jury to say yes or no on the question of "Orange man bad, right?" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660767) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:27 AM Author: Electric Impertinent Internal Respiration Famous Landscape Painting i dont see why shouldnt be a directed verdict for the defendant
prosecution hasn't introduced any evidence that "legal expenses" was an incorrect classification for the expenses in the financials, hasn't even specified a second crime that the alleged misclassification was meant to hide, let alone presented evidence that such crime was implicated. the whole case is just "look isnt this a bunch of shady shit" and hope for conviction. a travesty of justice. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:31 AM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king Same thing happened to Ken Paxton except it was neocons + dems vs MAGA. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660442) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:33 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native this case is such bullshit that im starting to think the judge is a trumpmo playing 3d chess by allowing it to proceed.
im not a trumpmo but since 2016 i have been forced to side with him constantly because of libs increasingly deranged and baseless accusations. trump could not have won in 2016 and won't have won in 2024 without the libs making him martyr. even my lib lawyer friends agree this is a witch hunt. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:43 AM Author: Electric Impertinent Internal Respiration Famous Landscape Painting im completely with you. trump is a bozo and surely will be an ineffectual president again in his second term, but these lawfare campaigns are so outrageous that you cant help but hope he wins so that this kind of abuse of the judicial system isnt incentivized (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660481) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:52 AM Author: Apoplectic offensive native cr.
anyone that is basing their vote on "preserving democracy" should be voting for trump. it is absolutely stunning that libs justify shit like these baseless prosecutions and attempting to remove him from ballots with "we need to preserve democracy! trump is an authoritarian!"
to preserve democracy we must destroy democracy! we need to lock trump up and prevent people from voting for it because he's a bad dude! the people should not be able to vote for candidates we determine are bad! |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:56 AM Author: Electric Impertinent Internal Respiration Famous Landscape Painting libs literally tried having some unelected woman take trump off the ballot in maine in the name of "protecting democracy". orwell comes alive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660503) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:08 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native it's so cliche to say "libs are the real racists!" and "libs are the real facists!", but it's so often true.
99% of the time when if a lib spergs out when discussing this shit it comes down to "insurrection! fascist! authoritarian!" it's clear that this isn't some neutral application of the law, and it's all in service of doing whatever it takes to make sure trump isn't elected. and not matter how many times i say "look, i don't like the guy either, but..." they can't get it out of their heads that any defense of trump must equal support of him. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:15 PM Author: Chartreuse slimy forum tattoo I think you're missing what people mean when they say "preserving democracy." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660777) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:43 AM Author: contagious rigpig cr.
the term was "legal expenses" and not "attorneys fees." it clearly was a legal expense. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:49 AM Author: violent keepsake machete Directing others to make false bookkeeping statements IS the second crime. It’s called criminal conspiracy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660492) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:50 AM Author: violent keepsake machete Trump is telling Cohen to lie to the FEC in an official statement about the nature of the reimbursement. If you believe Cohen’s testimony, then that is a crime (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660494) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:52 AM Author: Electric Impertinent Internal Respiration Famous Landscape Painting so your theory is he falsified business records with the intent to conceal his having directed people to falsify those same business records? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660496) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:55 AM Author: Ebony parlor old irish cottage Telling his CFO to misstate the payment to Cohen as retainer is the misdemeanor. Telling Cohen to lie about it to Congress and FEC is the added felony (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660501) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:05 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native it's slightly less circular than that. cohen did plead guilty to FEC violations in how he recorded these expenses with his own entities. the allegation here is that trump recorded his payments to cohen in the trump organization funds rather than campaign funds, and recorded them as legal fees, in an attempt to promote or conceal cohen's misrecording.
of course that makes no sense because there's no evidence that anyone in trump's circle knew how cohen was handling his own accounting. and cohen's misreporting happened after trump's payments of course. so trump would have had to misrecorded his own books to promote or conceal cohen's misreporting. i doubt trump wanted cohen to misreport his books anyway, why would he? this catch-and-kill scheme is legal. there's no requirement that it be recorded as "hush money payments to stormy daniels." even if these were all properly reported as campaign contributions, the legal catch-and-kill scheme would not be revealed, much less the details of it. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:10 PM Author: tan know-it-all half-breed bbw Yes they have. Cohen testified that the line item they marked as a legal expense was hush money, not a legal fee paid for legal services (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660538) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:11 PM Author: Electric Impertinent Internal Respiration Famous Landscape Painting and what evidence was presented for the premise that payment to secure a legal agreement cannot be reasonably characterized as legal expenses? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660543) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:23 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native the lib pumo is a retard and doesn't even know the prosecutor's theory.
no one is arguing that recording this as "legal expenses" was unlawful. obviously paying a lawyer to execute a legal agreement and reimbursing him for expenses are legal expenses. the argument is that this was structured as a retainer and paid out over time in order to disguise the repayment. and that the timing of the payments was unlawful.
this all might be true, but if anyone thinks trump was in the weeds on the accounting on this they are insane. and even if he was that it was done in this way to conceal the scheme itself. what, if he just recorded it as a lump sum people would have guessed it was a hush money payment? or if he recorded it as a lump sum for legal services in his campaign records? everyone knew cohen was trump's lawyer and so it would not raise any red flags to see payments to him.
also, all of this occurred in january 2017. you know, when trump was president-elect and scrambling to put an administration together? even under ordinary circumstances trump is obviously not in the weeds on accounting minutiae for matters under $1m, likely not ever. if you think he was in fucking january 2017 you are out of your mind. of course, this is the mind of people with TDS. although i think in their heart of hearts they know trump is innocent but are ok with him being convicted of anything regardless of whether he is guilty. they want to seem him hang and don't care how it happens. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:25 PM Author: Electric Impertinent Internal Respiration Famous Landscape Painting last two sentences really get at the heart of this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660586) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:30 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king It's been 9 years of the media bashing him. TDS is real. They really cannot see the forest through the trees. It would be like telling a Nazi party official in 1938 that Jews weren't really a problem at all and the war was misguided. They'd sooner put a bullet in your head than listen to you. That's how far gone libs are. Past a point of absolute no return. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660604) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:34 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native libs treat politics like a religion at every level. trump is the devil, so everything he does and says is bad and evil. that's the beginning and the end of their reasoning.
it's always funny when cons present libs with trump quotes attributed to a lib and watching them enthusiastically agree. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:35 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king "Nevertheless, you persisted" - Adolf Hitler (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660622) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:31 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native the question of whether these should have been recorded as campaign contributions in the first place is rather tenuous to begin with. trump is a businessman and public figure who is running for office. how do you delineate between whether his actions are to promote his campaign or to promote his business or to maintain his public image outside of politics? they're all inexorably intertwined.
at every level of this case there are gigantic factual and legal holes. it's unfathomable that a case like this would have been brought against anyone other than trump. which is why it never fucking has before. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:35 PM Author: tan know-it-all half-breed bbw nonsensical obfuscation like this is likely why your wife left you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660625) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:45 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native it's hard to even tell if you're just trolling and running a braindead lib schtick. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660655) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:32 PM Author: tan know-it-all half-breed bbw Cohen’s testimony (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660611) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:35 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native you're a fucking retard. he's asking what the authority is that recording this as legal expenses is a mischaracterization. cohen's testimony has nothing to do with it. no one argues the facts of the case insofar as how the shit was recorded. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660624) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:57 PM Author: tan know-it-all half-breed bbw you’re dumb. you don’t need to present a witness to testify that classifying a construction expense as an automobile purchase is a falsification. the jury is permitted to use their common sense on such minor issues (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660694) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:20 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker You should become a tax lawyer. The IRS would HATE you for constantly PWNing them with arguments likes this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660792) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:42 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "prosecution hasn't introduced any evidence that "legal expenses" was an incorrect classification for the expenses in the financials"
Lol, what definition you are using for the word "evidence" in this sentence? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:44 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native he's clearly using it in the general sense and not as factual evidence. and you know that, stop being pedantic. he meant authority. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660651) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:48 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Hypo for you: A ledger describes a series of six payments to Michael Cohen LLP over the first half of 2017 as "legal expenses." Michael Cohen testifies that he performed no legal services during that period.
Would this be "evidence" that the payments were improperly classified? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:58 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native yes. and you'll see i clarified libpumo above pointing that out, he was arguing categorizing the payments as legal expenses period was the improper recording. the trump organization is likely guilty of the misdemeanor of misclassifying business records. that's not really in dispute.
what's the crux here is that this misclassification could not have done to promote or conceal a second crime, because there is no second crime. a catch-and-kill scheme is legal. operating a catch-and-kill scheme to prevent legal yet potentially damaging information from coming to light in order to influence an election is legal. this misclassification happened after the election anyway. so what is the second crime?
even if trump personally and knowing it was unlawful structured and recorded the payments in this fashion, what crime was he seeking to promote or conceal by doing so? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:08 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "the trump organization is likely guilty of the misdemeanor of misclassifying business records"
Sec. 175.05: "*A person is guilty* of falsifying business records in the second degree when, with intent to defraud, he: 1. Makes or *causes a false entry* in the business records of an enterprise"
I gather they're alleging that Trump caused the false entries to be made.
"because there is no second crime"
You're just declaring that. I gather they're alleging that spending money to advance a political campaign while misclassifying it as a "legal expense" is a violation of some NY election statute.
"this misclassification happened after the election anyway"
Why would that matter? You can't amend your 2022 tax filing in 2024 with some false entries, but say "I made those false entries well after 2022."
"what crime was he seeking to promote or conceal by doing so"
I gather it has something to do with NY campaign/election law. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:11 PM Author: Jet-lagged tanning salon "I gather they're alleging that spending money to advance a political campaign while misclassifying it as a "legal expense" is a violation of some NY election statute."
Indictment never says that. None of us (nationwide cabal of lawyers) can figure out what that other "violation" even is |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:15 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "(nationwide cabal of shitlawyers)"
Fixed that for you chief. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:19 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native see the shit i quoted earlier. the prosecution literally refused to answer what the second crime is when trump asking in his request for particulars. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660787) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:17 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native except he's being charged under 175.10
§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof"
"I gather they're alleging that spending money to advance a political campaign while misclassifying it as a "legal expense" is a violation of some NY election statute."
it's clear at this point you haven't even done cursory research on this. but they need to establish a second crime. your circular argument here makes no sense. how can the misclassification itself be the second crime?
"Why would that matter?"
because one of the "second crime" theories is "unlawfully promoting a candidate", and so the misclassification could not have been done to promote trump since it occurred after the election
"I gather it has something to do with NY campaign/election law."
it's actually mostly theories involving federal campaign laws, which is why it's so funny you jumped all over doodikoff for asking about a federal statute. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:42 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "I gather they're alleging that spending money to advance a political campaign while misclassifying it as a "legal expense" is a violation of some NY election statute."
"it's clear at this point you haven't even done cursory research on this. but they need to establish a second crime. your circular argument here makes no sense. how can the misclassification itself be the second crime?"
I don't follow. The recordation is the 175.05 misdemeanor, and the crime that it "conceals" is a violation of some kind of election law.
"because one of the "second crime" theories is "unlawfully promoting a candidate", and so the misclassification could not have been done to promote trump since it occurred after the election"
I'm just guessing here, but I expect that campaign funding laws can be deemed violated by post-election book-keeping activities, just like tax laws can be violated by things you do after the tax year has passed.
"it's actually mostly theories involving federal campaign laws"
I got the NY notion from what that law professor wrote: "How would Trump even know about the obscure New York Election Law § 17.152 provision that he is being accused of intentionally concealing?" |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:57 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native "I don't follow. The recordation is the 175.05 misdemeanor, and the crime that it "conceals" is a violation of some kind of election law."
the statute says ANOTHER crime. so if the misclassification violates a campaign finance law as well it's not relevant. you can use the misclassification as the ANOTHER crime just because it violates another law. not even the prosecution is arguing that.
"I'm just guessing here, but I expect that campaign funding laws can be deemed violated by post-election book-keeping activities, just like tax laws can be violated by things you do after the tax year has passed."
there is no doubt that the misclassification can be unlawful even though it occurred after the election. the issue is that it can't have been done to "promote a candidate" when it occurred after the election. note that no one is arguing that the catch-and-kill scheme was illegal, which is why they are quibbling with record violations.
"I got the NY notion from what that law professor wrote: "How would Trump even know about the obscure New York Election Law § 17.152 provision that he is being accused of intentionally concealing?""
that is one of the prosecutions theories but most rely on federal election laws. even in this NY statute they are arguing the "unlawful" element is satisfied by a violation of federal law. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:58 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "if the misclassification violates a campaign finance law as well it's not relevant."
I haven't read, but I assume the campaign finance violation isn't the recordation itself, but the submission of a report of some kind that is based on the falseness.
"can't have been done to "promote a candidate" when it occurred after the election"
I think the "promote a candidate" charge is alleged under a conspiracy theory, isn't it? If the conspiracy begins with an agreement to pay Stormy to promote the candidate and was carried through to the recordation, that's a very typical use of conspiracy theory in criminal charges.
|
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:05 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native "I haven't read, but I assume the campaign finance violation isn't the recordation itself, but the submission of a report of some kind that is based on the falseness."
they don't even know. they've thrown a bunch of theories against the wall. my question to you is whether *YOU* think trump is guilty and why or why not. you can pick one of the myriad of second crime theories the prosecution lays out. i don't think any of them hold water.
"If the conspiracy begins with an agreement to pay Stormy to promote the candidate and was carried through to the recordation, that's a very typical use of conspiracy theory in criminal charges."
no one is arguing that the payments to stormy or the catch-and-kill scheme was unlawful. that is why they are focusing on recordation violations. if the scheme was lawful, and the scheme was used to promote trump, how does recordation violations have been part of the conspiracy to promote the candidate considering they all occurred after the election? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:14 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker The answer to your first question is I don't know since I haven't seen the forthcoming jury instructions about the second crime. Have you?
Your second point just seems to quibble with how conspiracy theory is routinely understood. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:27 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native no, i have no read the jury instructions that have not been drafted yet. but i do know the facts and the law, and believe he is not guilty for the reasons i've expressed itt. as a lawyer you could also do this without the aid of jury instructions.
it's not a quibble. if the conspiracy was to unlawfully influence an election, than the conspiracy would have to include acts that occurred preceding the election. at best you could argue there was a conspiracy to unlawful cover up lawful acts after the election. but that couldn't have been used to promote a candidate unlawfully. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 5:47 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "no, i have no read the jury instructions that have not been drafted yet"
Then you're like a child who walks into the room in the middle of movie, bleating "this movie doesn't make any sense!!"
"but i do know the facts and the law"
'I don't know either what the instructions say or the elements of the offenses, but I know THE LAW, goddammit!!' |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 6:08 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native how do you think the prosecutors were able to create the indictments without jury instructions?
you're just copping out. you said you'd give me an answer at the outset, and now you're slithering away.
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&mc=235&forum_id=2#47660675
i know what charges trump has been indicted for. frankly, it doesn't matter what the second crime they're alleging because it's clear that trump isn't in the fucking weeds directing how small payments like this are structured and recorded, nor is he even aware of campaign finance laws to ever be able to form the requisite mens rea required here. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:58 PM Author: tan know-it-all half-breed bbw you’re missing the point that UNLESS they specifically have Trump on tape saying “I wish to fraudulently structure this hush money payment as a payment for legal services” then there is no case (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660701) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:15 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660775) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:45 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker So the overthrow of Autoadmit.com by TTT grads and non-lawyers is finally complete. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660654) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:46 PM Author: Submissive Snowy Stag Film Did you take a 5 year vacation or something (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660658) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:48 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Haven't posted very much since around 2010. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660672) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:47 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native you're frequently unbiased when it comes to trump's legal shit like with the colorado ballot removal shit. it's sad to see you make a drive-by adhom. i'd like to see you actually lay out how you think trump violated this statute. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660665) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:50 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker I will if you really want, but I'm mostly commenting on analyses ITT like OP's opening declaration of "no victim, no crime" and Doodikoff's query "WhaT FedERal StATutE WAs VioLATeD??" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660675) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:02 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native fair re the OP
but you're off base with doodikoff's shit. first of all it's not really fair to make fun of him for asking a question considering he at least read the indictment.
but worse than that it seems like you're making fun of him for even thinking that a federal statute was violated. however the prosecution has explicitly laid out several federal laws as a hook for the "second crime." so, if that's the case, you're the one wrong here. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:14 PM Author: Jet-lagged tanning salon I mean, can you spell out the specific federal statute that was violated, or any other statute that makes this a felony? The indictment is somehow silent on that part. I can't find it anywhere else either, and in fact it was cited above the following (by the prosecution) "In addition, there is "no requirement that the People allege or establish what particular crime was intended." People v. Mahboubian, 74 N.Y.2d 174, 193 (1989). Rather, the People need only establish "general intent to commit [or conceal] a crime . . . not [defendant's] intent to commit [or conceal] a specific crime." People v. Thompson, 206 A.D.3d 1708, 1708 (4th Dep't 2022); see also People v. Mackey, 49 N.Y.2d 274, 279 (1980)"
So yeah I am a dumbass so please help me out here. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:46 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native if you read the motion i poasted in the relevant parts they do list a few different theories on what "may" be the second crime. but they've refused to allege any one particularly. it's complete bullshit.
their theory is that the statute punishes criminal intent, and it doesn't matter if the second crime was even attempted. which makes sense -- someone can be guilty of falsifying business records because they were going to attempt a crime that they ultimately didn't do. but if *they* can't even allege what the second crime trump attempted was, how the fuck could *trump* have had criminal intent? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:07 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king We all know he's guilty of intent to commit a crime. Just look at him. His thoughts are criminal. Worse than Nixon imo. *farts cum* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660951) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:16 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native it's funny that libs always accuse trump of being a blithering retard. but this case would require him to be some super competent guy who was in the weeds directing how minor expenses were recorded. and have superior knowledge of campaign violence laws and accounting standards.
no one at his level is like this. this is what lawyers and accountants are for. i'm sure he said "yeah, pay cohen X." but there's no fucking way trump did directed specifically how it would be recorded, let alone that he directed in this manner with criminal intent.
after this shit came to light he went on fox & friends and bragged about how he recorded it as a personal expense. why would he admit that if the whole reason he recorded it that way was to cover up some other crime? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:20 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king I think in a show of solidarity with Alvin Bragg the State of New York is going to open up the books on all the liberal Jewish billionaires in Manhattan and go line by line through every expense and see what was mislabeled and covering up a criminal conspiracy of an unknown crime. A huge rise in this happening to someone you know after this trial. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660998) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:29 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native cr. they're probably just using this incredibly attenuated legal theory as a "test case" before they start charging tons of other people with it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661023) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 10:51 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47662366) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:52 PM Author: pale seedy school cafeteria partner i hate to break it to you man but have you not been actually reading his words for the past, idk, at least 10 years? epah hasn't broken character in any appreciable way for a very long time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660682) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:59 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native he was pretty balanced during the colorado ballot legal analysis and predicted it would be overturned easily. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660706) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:53 PM Author: titillating drab stock car lodge Lol you dork he's just a weird old fag trolling for replies to his nonsense (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660687) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:51 PM Author: Disrespectful station volcanic crater feel free to explain how this crim law professor just really doesn't understand what he's talking about
https://news.syr.edu/blog/2024/05/07/law-professor-the-manhattan-district-attorneys-convoluted-legal-case-against-donald-trump-gets-more-convoluted/ |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:02 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker It'd take some time, but the general sloppiness of this fellow's writing suggests that his analysis is muddled also:
+"Section 175.05, in turn, provides that the defendant is guilty of a misdemeanor “if, with the intent to defraud, *you* make, or even cause through other means, a false entry in an enterprise’s business records.”"
+"Judge Marshan allowed the District Attorney to proceed"
+"So the misdemeanor requires proof of intent to “defaud,” the"
+"Despite Trump’s denials, the argument that Michael Cohen paid *$175,000* to Stormy Daniels on his own does not seem credible. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:03 PM Author: Disrespectful station volcanic crater feel free to explain how this crim law professor just really doesn't understand what he's talking about
|
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:12 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker I could spend 3 hours digging in and doing that, but my point is to highlight how sloppy and error-ridden his prose is. It's possible he saved the smart parts of his brain for the analysis, but when I see opposing counsel write like this, it's almost guaranteed that their understanding of the issues and caselaw is SPS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660762) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:17 PM Author: Disrespectful station volcanic crater OK, I am persuaded that you could easily go through the ciminal law prof's analysis about all the hurdles faced by the prosecution and show why he is wrong repeatedly, but don't really want to because you have enough indication that he is wrong based on his prose. I have changed my mind. Thank you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660785) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:06 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native you're being really catty lately by constantly attacking people's typos to discredit their arguments. i get that a law prof's blog is different than an xo poast, but you do it here too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660736) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:14 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Sloppy writing is a hallmark of sloppy thinking IME. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660770) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:29 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native so far you've laughed at doodikoff for asking what federal statute they are alleging is the second crime when federal election violations are most of the prosecution's theory on what the second crime may be. and quoted the wrong statute trump is being charged under that you lifted from that professor's "poorly written" blog post.
i'd say these careless errors and misassumptions are a much better indicator of sloppy thinking, regardless of how eloquently you express yourself. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:46 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker No silly I didn't quote the "wrong" statute -- a violation of 175.05 is a predicate of a 175.10 violation. That means we first need to see if 175.05 was violated. I was showing how a jury could believe that Trump "caused" the false entries in response to some pumo saying that only the Trump org could be guilty of the violation.
"when federal election violations are most of the prosecution's theory on what the second crime may be"
Do we know that's true? Can you link to a non-xo source? The law prof seems to think the second crime is something about NY election law. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:49 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native you quoted that when i was admitting that the misclassification may have occurred, which is why a conceded that the trump org may have violated 170.05. the issue isn't so much whether the misclassification occurred, it's the second crime elements of 170.10.
"Can you link to a non-xo source?"
yes, in the prosecution's opposition to dismiss i quoted above. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:53 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Oh I thought you were indicating that any violation would be by the trump org. But I take it you also concede that the jury could conclude that Drumpf "caused" the false entries to be made?
As we work toward common ground here we'll likely get right to crux of the issue. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:00 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native i was indicating that because i don't think there's any chance trump caused the false entries to be made, which is why i said "it's likely the trump org." but i concede that this evidence could be used to find that trump caused the entries to be made, sure.
the crux is whether if trump caused these entries to be made whether it was to promote or conceal another crime. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:19 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Man I keep forgetting whether or not you're a lolyer? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660994) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:25 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native i am. but if i was a layman this exchange would be particularly embarrassing for you considering your frequent misassumptions and mistakes on the law. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661007) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:42 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Follow up Q (just to gauge the level at which I should pitch my forthcoming Socratic Method on the second crime): Did you go to a good law school or a TTT? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661056) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:52 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native good school. but why don't you respond here where we were debating this in substance:
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&mc=184&forum_id=2#47660919
i've already conceded for the purpose of this debate that trump may have directed this misclassification. the question i have for you is what, specifically, is the second crime that trump misclassified this to promote or conceal? |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:00 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker "when federal election violations are most of the prosecution's theory on what the second crime may be"
Wait, dID yOU ReaD or even skim the opposition brief you linked? There are a couple of pages at 23-25 that discuss federal and NY election law interchangeably, then pages 32-37 are specific only to NY election law. So no, "most of the prosecution's theory," at least as argued there, is about NY law, not federal law. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:05 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native they start their argument discussing federal election laws and then move on to NY election laws, which also involve a violation of federal law satisfying the "unlawful" element of that statute, so at every level federal law is involved.
you're quibbling with my use of "most." ok, change it to "some." my point is still the same. you were mocking doodikoff for asking about a federal statute because you didn't think federal law was involved at all. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 12:49 PM Author: zippy bright cruise ship immigrant between orange man bad and covfefe and russia hacking the election through facebook i think the gop should just give this one to libs since they didnt get him removed from office the past few times they tried to impeach him unlike when nixon resigned. itd be fair imo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660673) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:03 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native legally he was ineligible for candidacy the moment he said pussy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660725) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:05 PM Author: zippy bright cruise ship immigrant https://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528314&mc=5&forum_id=2
i rest my case, counselor |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:08 PM Author: Smoky travel guidebook macaca Love epah's smugness ITT. He knows the law, you don't (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660742) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:24 PM Author: Electric Impertinent Internal Respiration Famous Landscape Painting based on his replies itt, this does not seem to be the case, he's just being smug for smugness sake, which is his MO (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660806) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:33 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native he quoted the wrong statute because he just briefly skimmed that professor's blog post. so, not only does epah not know the law, he doesn't even know *which* law he doesn't know. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660832) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:48 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker No silly I didn't quote the "wrong" statute -- a violation of 175.05 is a predicate of a 175.10 violation ("predicate" means we first need to see if 175.05 was violated.) I was showing how a jury could believe that Trump "caused" the false entries. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660889) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:48 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker You have no "evidence" that I'm being smug. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660890) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:55 PM Author: Electric Impertinent Internal Respiration Famous Landscape Painting the pumo testified to it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660909) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:11 PM Author: Jet-lagged tanning salon you were mean to me though... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660958) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:40 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Sorry man I take it back (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661053) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:55 PM Author: Charismatic Stage Organic Girlfriend He had a history of btfoing online and IRL legal mastermen but I see no evidence of that ITT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661095) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:57 PM Author: brilliant alpha He thought Michael Avenatti was legit and made threads praising him. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661100) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 1:49 PM Author: tan know-it-all half-breed bbw You can’t read Trump’s mind libs so you can’t prove he had criminal intent. Sorry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660892) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:04 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Libs overlook the fact that crimes have to be proven BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. That means if shitcons have doubts, Drumpf can't be convicted.
|
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:09 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king How did Trump know he was intending to commit a crime when the state can't even allege what's that crime is? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47660955) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:29 PM Author: brilliant alpha All of the charges against Trump in all of these venues are weak AF and any convictions would be thrown out by SCOTUS on due process grounds alone. OP is simply illustrating the problem. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661025) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:32 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native ...? what? what due process grounds? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661032) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:33 PM Author: brilliant alpha Fuck off shitforbrains (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661034) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:34 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native i am dumb as fuck so this is a great opportunity to prove it to the world by explaining what due process grounds you think scotus would use to overturn a conviction here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661039) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:33 PM Author: contagious rigpig i am convinced, altho i have no direct proof, that a cabal of Norm Eisen types workshopped all these various charges. the indictments are so convoluted and weak. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661036) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:56 PM Author: Sexy step-uncle's house Everything Normie E has ever poasted about this case makes this clear, plus he literally tried to impeach Trump using, among other things, the same set of facts. I think it’s a 98+% certainty that he was instrumental in convincing Bragg to reverse his decision and pursue the prosecution. It’s weird (and also a testament to the low IQs and short attention spans of loyal Fox viewers) that Norm hasn’t been viciously pwn3d for his transparent chicanery in this case. It really is a shame that SCOTUS helped to block the Jan 6th trial, because if it had gone forward we could’ve all been spared this bullshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661096) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:57 PM Author: brilliant alpha National politicians get their credentials laundered in New York too. Bragg probably got offered AOC's seat after AOC gets elevated to the Senate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661099) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:37 PM Author: hairraiser sadistic jap this would be pleasurable if only because it would complete the journey we began in earnest with Bush v Gore.
Libs have captured EVERY INSTITUTION except the fucking scotus and to be thwarted by their one solitary miss would likely trigger the much talked about civil war |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:54 PM Author: brilliant alpha Fuck Bush v. Gore. THIS case is all u need:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Chicago_v._Morales
Look at the mental contortions shitlibs ITT have to do to justify these charges. They are far more elaborate than anything Chicago was saying. This Georgia RICO statute is fuckin joke that's already going down in flames separate from anything to do with Trump. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 2:36 PM Author: contagious rigpig Turley's views on Cohen's testimony.
https://pjmedia.com/matt-margolis/2024/05/14/how-michael-cohens-testimony-helped-donald-trump-n4929015 |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:19 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Barbara McQuade on the same issue: https://www.npr.org/2019/02/28/699118959/how-michael-cohens-testimony-could-affect-president-trumps-legal-position
Which do you think has more experience with criminal prosecutions? My guess is that JT has never tried either a civil or criminal case. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:50 PM Author: contagious rigpig lol, McQuade? lazy trolling.
In 2017, McQuade became a regular contributor to MSNBC, initially commenting primarily on purported scandals related to President Donald Trump, though the range of topics she analyzes has become broader over time. Since 2021, she also co-hosts the #SistersInLaw podcast with Jill Wine-Banks, Joyce Vance and Kimberly Atkins Stohr.[9]
btw, she was one of the US Attorneys that trump fired. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 5:40 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Wasn't that when JT became a regular contributor to FNC? I cited her specifically as the counterpart to JT (except that she has courtroom experience, whereas JT was an environmental lawyer before FNC elevated him to being a "constitutional/trial law expert") (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661567) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 5:52 PM Author: contagious rigpig c'mon, jack. McQuade wears blue filters on all issues. Turley calls'em like he sees'em, regardless of politics. but because of that, Turley is immensely useful to Fox because Turley is one of the rare pundits who will call out bullshit on the left. MSM has no use for people like Turley. MSM has endless use for people like McQuade. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661591) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:12 PM Author: Exhilarant sanctuary XOXO 2024: the underemployed and highly online dude who relocated so he could be the the 15th poster to fuck the box has a highly informed and cogent take on the state’s ability to meet their burden at trial in a criminal cases based on what he has seen on twitter and reddit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661125) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:15 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661136) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:18 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king Oh shut the fuck up you would swim the English channel in February just to sniff having a chance with her (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661142) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:20 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker I wasn't blank-bumping that part of it. I like tbtp. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661147) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:24 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king I know. She likes you too but said you're too old. I at least respect that you have the humility to admit you're attracted. Numerous xopoas have tried and failed with her (recently!) and I keep the identities private so they can continue on with their poasting careers without having to live with that shame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661159) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:36 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native you don't have to keep throwing salt in the wound. i shot my shot. so what? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661206) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:39 PM Author: Comical rose school You are all subhuman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661213) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:41 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native that's exactly what tbtp said when she rejected me :( (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661220) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:55 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king Lmao (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661264) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:53 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king I've been awaiting this mea culpa for a long time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661261) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:17 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king "And Other Tales" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661141) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:37 PM Author: Comical rose school What a poast (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661209) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 3:56 PM Author: Insane Confused People Who Are Hurt Really Tough Guy lol @ retards itt replying to EPAH (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661269) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 4:34 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king In which way is it funny (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661389) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 5:01 PM Author: spectacular ticket booth telephone wait, you had to research anything about the case to know it was a pack of bs? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661474) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 5:09 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native it's a matter of degree.
the federal documents case is a political prosecution, but there it's at least plausible violated the law in a very minor and never-before-prosecuted way. it would be like a cop who didn't like charging you for speeding for going 56 in a 55.
this is bullshit factually and legally, and it's broad overreach. it would be like a cop charging you for vehicular homicide when you were on a cruise. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 5:15 PM Author: Smoky travel guidebook macaca epah, can you please eviscerate this poaster with a smug takedown? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661511) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 5:18 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native he tried and got btfo and abandoned the thread with his tail between his legs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661518) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 6:43 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king So a typical day for EPAH? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661761) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 5:42 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Sure:
"a very minor and never-before-prosecuted way"
My friend John Edwards would like a word. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 5:58 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native first, i was referring to the federal classified docs case.
second, i seem to recall that john was charged with receiving hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign donations that were used to fund his lover and child. not only was this case brought federally, where campaign finance violations are almost always brought, but is was that edwards was spending campaign money to fund his ex to keep the news from being leaked.
in this case, trump *DID* use his own money! yet for some reason people think that the money should have come from campaign funds in trumps case? i suppose if you pay a woman off using a campaign funds without an NDA it's illegal, but if you do it with an NDA is must come from the campaign? seems like a bullshit distinction, which is *probably* why a justice department willing to charge trump with stupid classified documents charges declined to charge him for any campaign finance violations.
seems odd you'd bring up edwards since the distinction between these two cases demonstrates further why the case against trump is bullshit. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 6:06 PM Author: umber shivering windowlicker Oh sorry, in that case my response is:
"a very minor and never-before-prosecuted way"
Since no POTUS has concealed classified docs in the way Drumpf did, one can hardly be surprised that it's not previously been prosecuted against a POTUS. But it's prosecuted against fed employees all the time, and without the courtesy of subpoenas and months of pleading. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 6:19 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native or perhaps it's common and no one has ever prosecuted before because of how stupid and common it is. for example, i also seem to recall joe biden had a bunch of documents at his house. although i guess the facts here are somewhat different since biden was only VPOTUS and didn't have the power to declassify trump did. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661673) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 5:19 PM Author: vigorous awkward office boiling water Didn't he declassify the documents before taking them out? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661521) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 5:23 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native not through official channels.
the argument is that the whole classification system is based an executive order, therefore a former president cannot violate it for documents that entered his possession as POTUS. or that he can declassify them in any way he chooses, including just thinking it.
although he kind of fucked that potential argument because there is testimony he showed people some of them and was like "i could have declassified them, but i didn't" |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 6:22 PM Author: pale seedy school cafeteria partner after skimming this thread my main conclusion is that all american lawyers (including xo poas, sorry bros) must be executed by end of business tomorrow. I apologize in advance for any inconvenience, thank. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661685) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 6:23 PM Author: Trip Laser Beams whew (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661689) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 6:23 PM Author: Apoplectic offensive native (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661691) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 6:25 PM Author: Electric Impertinent Internal Respiration Famous Landscape Painting fair (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47661695) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:10 PM Author: Comical rose school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47662421) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:30 PM Author: wonderful gold elastic band they played a recording of him arranging to pay her off because it would hurt his 2016 prospects if he didn't. then he called it a legal expense (because lawyers always reimburse clients for legal services, obviously). that part is open and shut. the part about whether or not the $125,000 loan constitutes a felonious contribution because it exceeds the $5,000 contribution limit is also open and shut:
accordingly, he committed 34 felonies because he falsified business records to conceal a felony. |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:31 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king Trump will never be President now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47662442) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:42 PM Author: wonderful gold elastic band "i was just obliterated so now i'm going to shift the goalpost to a more easily defended claim" (hat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47662457) |
|
Date: May 14th, 2024 11:49 PM Author: big red public bath philosopher-king Yep, no, you're right. Another unmitigated victory for benzo. There's literally 0, and I mean 0, chance of Trump's acquittal and subsequent victory in November. Wow. Neither of these could possibly come true. Benzo you really are a savant. And I'm sure given your track record of total honesty you will be the first to pen a mea culpa screed if this doesn't go your way. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5528327&forum_id=2#47662488) |
|
Date: May 15th, 2024 4:05 AM Author: adventurous magenta house O rly? You can’t escape truth conservatards, CNN is applying FACTS to LAW. Cope.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2023/07/politics/trump-indictments-criminal-cases/ |