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Posner's ratings are the most preftigious!!
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:19 PM Author: hairraiser volcanic crater home Subject: Here they are: 1. Harvard 2. Columbia 2. Chicago 4. Yale 4. NYU 6. Stanford 7. NU 8. Virginia 9. Penn 10. Mich 10. Cornell 12. Boalt 13. Duke 13. G'Town
I agree with them more than any others, except: Move Yale to 2, tie CC for 3rd, NYU 5th. Move Penn above NU to 7th, make NU 8th. Leave the rest, clearly Duke and G'Town are closer to UCLA/USC than the other top schools. |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:20 PM Author: curious chapel goal in life not preftigious to me (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3434986) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:24 PM Author: hairraiser volcanic crater home Explain (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435012) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:20 PM Author: orchid toilet seat Link? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3434987) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:23 PM Author: hairraiser volcanic crater home http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=703821 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435011) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:24 PM Author: Translucent cuckoldry interesting. it cites the GTO study. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435014) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:36 PM Author: sick pale athletic conference holy shit it does (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435088) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:37 PM Author: cracking mildly autistic quadroon Wow, what's Posner's screenname? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435100) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:42 PM Author: Boyish principal's office StabbyMcLawyer.
Duh. |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 11:36 PM Author: Turquoise vivacious haunted graveyard newt Posner is an NU troll! (Not that that's a bad thing.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3438117) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:42 PM Author: Gay orchestra pit selfie Madame Cunt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435153) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 9:19 PM Author: exciting stock car Yes, this is how the world should be. Except Yale after harvard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3436884) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 11:36 PM Author: Turquoise vivacious haunted graveyard newt Why take your opinion over Posner's? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3438122) |
Date: July 28th, 2005 5:30 PM Author: transparent lodge candlestick maker Wow, this is an intense comment:
"Berkeley is notorious for affirmative action, which is probably what is responsible for its unimpressive showing in column 3, and I would predict that the result would be a distinct dumbing down of the teaching there." |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:32 PM Author: hairraiser volcanic crater home Honestly, I can see the merit of a HP/P-type system at a school like Yale, where it's pretty much a given everybody is smart.
But why would they do that at Boalt? It basically allows the TTTs to cover up their ineptitute by saying they got all "P"s. |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:36 PM Author: transparent lodge candlestick maker Oh, my comment was more about him claiming that AA -> dumbing down of teaching without any merit for such a claim. That is a very strong claim, and while may be verfiable, can't be made without such verification. He needs to do so. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435089) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:42 PM Author: Gay orchestra pit selfie Do you seriously doubt that selecting less qualified people to teach at your school will lead to a decrease in teaching quality? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435143) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:49 PM Author: transparent lodge candlestick maker I assume you mean "slecting less qualified people to LEARN" because I think he is talking about using AA to select students leads to dumber students, which forces professors to dumb down the material. I only quickly skimmed his paper, so correct me if I'm wrong.
If this is the case, though, then I don't think the latter necessarily has to follow from the former. There are thousands of perfectly qualified students and giving a slight edge to minority students does not mean you will be admitting inferior students who will not be able to handle the higher-level intellectual work and will need to receive dumbed-down teaching.
I am just saying it doesn't necessarily have to be so. Of course, AA could be admitting extremely inferior students. But my point was that Posner shouldn't make such a claim -- a very touchy one -- without providing justification.
P.S. I would rather not see this turn into a debate on AA.
EDIT: I did find some justification, although to me it's not enough because it's his supposition rather than actual data. He says, "For the weaker the bottom group of students is, the greater the pressure on faculty to “dumb down” the teaching so as not to lose the bottom of the class. We know for the years after 1998 what LSAT score 25 percent of a school’s students are below and what score 25 percent are above, and the greater the difference in the two scores the greater the heterogeneity of the student body and therefore the greater the pressure to dumb down." |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:52 PM Author: Gay orchestra pit selfie Oh, I assumed he must have been talking about faculty, since it has been illegal to practice affirmative action in California for many years now. Maybe Posner didn't get the memo.
"If this is the case, though, then I don't think the latter necessarily has to follow from the former. There are thousands of perfectly qualified students and giving a slight edge to minority students does not mean you will be admitting inferior students who will not be able to handle the higher-level intellectual work and will need to receive dumbed-down teaching."
The Grutter case and other sources have made it clear that the AA advantage is not "slight." It's huge. And the data from the Sander article show very clearly that AA admits perform significantly worse than their non-AA classmates. Granted, this isn't proof that the teaching has been dumbed down; perhaps the reason URMs perform so poorly is that it hasn't been. |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:56 PM Author: transparent lodge candlestick maker Hmm, good point. Easy way to refute his argument! Although, are you sure the ban is on all AA and not just for undergraduate schools? I feel like Berkeley Law hasn't had any changes in its minority make-up since the law was passed. And what else could explain the large dispersion of LSAT scores? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435298) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 6:05 PM Author: Gay orchestra pit selfie It applies to all levels. I'm pretty sure Boalt's URM population plummeted after the law passed (though perhaps not its "minority" population, as there are plenty of Asians to fill the gap). They've managed to bring it up somewhat by de-emphasizing the LSAT in their admissions process, which has led to the admission of a bunch of TTT white kids along with the TTT URMs (which is why their 25% LSAT is so low).
There are some indications that Boalt is going to start playing the US News game again, which should lead to a decrease in URM admissions. |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 6:18 PM Author: transparent lodge candlestick maker Well I hope they don't before I apply with my TTT LSAT score. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435496) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 9:56 PM Author: Dashing sneaky criminal "TTT white kids"
how about "obnoxious jews who have trust frunds and have undergone breast reduction surgery and have no friends other than 'virtual' ones"? |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 10:02 PM Author: Beady-eyed nowag trump supporter Uh, you mean implants? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3437225) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 11:33 PM Author: Anal Brunch Juggernaut These women would probably have more friends if they had opted for enlargement instead. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3438086) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:50 PM Author: Beady-eyed nowag trump supporter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435235) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:31 PM Author: excitant gaped resort half-breed this is correct (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435063) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:39 PM Author: sick pale athletic conference I don't know why he didn't use some more updated data (some of it is as old as 2000) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435123) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:50 PM Author: excitant gaped resort half-breed yeah, he has the usnews rankings from like 2002 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435236) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:52 PM Author: spectacular offensive black woman He could be trying to use static data to try and account for trends. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435261) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 6:04 PM Author: sick pale athletic conference 2000 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435375) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:51 PM Author: Coral Address Persian Where did you get the idea that this is his ranking? The last column of his chart is not the ranking that he endorses, it's just an average of some of the other rankings.
It's pretty cool that he cites autoadmit.com, though. Why didn't GTO get in on the Rankings Symposium at IU-B? |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:53 PM Author: excitant gaped resort half-breed i always knew nu was better than michigan (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435266) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:54 PM Author: hairraiser volcanic crater home Shhh, you should never question propaganda. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435282) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:54 PM Author: Coral Address Persian So the next question: which Chicago poster is Posner's RA who sort of shamefacedly brought him the GTO study? I have my hunch ... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435277) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 6:02 PM Author: Titillating Senate I bet it's sugarywitch. Didn't she say something the other day about how she's an RA? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435351) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 9:46 PM Author: Geriatric Blood Rage Hayeklives?
Why wouldn't posner know about xoxo and the fiasco through his reading of Volokh/Leiter/ |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 11:40 PM Author: Turquoise vivacious haunted graveyard newt Well, it is the most prestigious... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3438154) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 11:47 PM Author: Bull headed canary codepig It's one of the below:
(1) Posner is omniscient.
(2) Former clerk, now a young law prof, alerted RAP.
(3) Sexpert. |
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Date: July 29th, 2005 2:47 PM Author: Coral Address Persian Nah, there are other U of C posters here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3443152) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 5:54 PM Author: maroon mood party of the first part ROFLZ TEXAS IS WTFPWNED IN THIS (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435280) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 6:02 PM Author: Rose comical gaping pit Shameless Chicago troll. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435355) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 6:03 PM Author: Lemon area liquid oxygen I might be missing something, but the OP just listed Posner's "Average Rank" on page 8 of his article. Why does the OP extrapolate this to mean that this is actually Posner's ranking of law schools? Why not extrapolate that the "Average Academic Rank" is Posner's own ranking? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3435364) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 6:21 PM Author: excitant gaped resort half-breed b/c Posner acknowledges that from a prospective student's point of view, column 10, the composite rank, is probably more useful than the usnews rank. the fact he does not use the average academic rank instead is telling.
actually though, Posner seems to advocate that column 3, dispersed lsat rank, might be the most accurate ranking system. that ranking proceeds as follows:
(1) nyu
(2) harvard
(3) yale
(3) columbia
(5) stanford
(6) chicago
(6) nu
(8) cornell
(9) penn
(9) michigan
(11) gulc
(12) duke
(12) uva
(12) usc
(12) fordham!! |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 9:45 PM Author: Vigorous mad cow disease NYU #1!!!!!!!!
I think that result speaks for itself. |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 9:49 PM Author: Lemon area liquid oxygen Yeah, it does speak for itself, and it says "this ranking that puts NYU at #1 cannot be accurate."
I mean, come on, we can argue all the time about CLS vs. NYU, but we all know that neither school is the #1 law school in the country. The great thing is that it truly doesn't matter all that much, except, of course, on this board. |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 9:52 PM Author: Vigorous mad cow disease Its kinda funny that we are using an article that says rankings aren't really useful and very crude, and quoting the "rankings" stated in that article.
All the article says is that rankings are stupid, and that they only do a good job in measuring tiers of law schools. It says to stop using rankings, and here we are using the "rankings" (that were never meant to be rankings). |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 10:01 PM Author: copper floppy boltzmann depressive That's far too sophisticated for the xoxo orthodoxy to absorb. Burn in hell, heretic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3437216) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 10:52 PM Author: sapphire crotch range Rank the USNEWS critics:
1) Posner 2) College Deans' Letter
TTT) LEITTTER |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 11:42 PM Author: Turquoise vivacious haunted graveyard newt I'd buy that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=229190&forum_id=2#3438167) |
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Date: July 28th, 2005 11:42 PM Author: Turquoise vivacious haunted graveyard newt "but we all know that neither school is the #1 law school in the country."
And how do we *know* that? Is it because we just sort of take it as a given and allow that to be our knowledge? |