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"Serial" -- do libs really think Adnan is innocent?
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Date: December 14th, 2014 1:48 PM Author: irate orchid psychic I heard in the latest episode that they're bringing an ineffective assistance claim for Adnan, just lol. His lawyer may have been a screeching harpy but she was probably better than 90% of the attorneys doing murder defense trials.
The host finally started to seem skeptical of Adnan until the "Innocence Project" crusader lady came on and blew smoke up her ass. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:21 PM Author: supple persian resort i don't get ppl shitting on his lawyer. her cross sounded effective. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928525) |
Date: December 14th, 2014 1:50 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop shitlibs often confuse legal concepts with factual concepts. they confuse whether adnan actually did it with whether adnan was guility beyond a reasonable doubt. it's just how they confuse the fact that zimmerhero killed baby tray with the legal concept that zimmerhero isnt guilty of murder.
the IAC claim is just based on a plea. which is retarded. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 1:53 PM Author: irate orchid psychic But who fucking cares if she can create or find "reasonable doubt" in the prosecution's case? If the case came down to whether people believed Jay (despite some of his details not seeming right), what's the point in saying "yeah but if I were on the jury I wouldn't have voted to convict"? No question a reasonable jury could have found the way it did, even if the defense had done a better job poking holes in the prosecution's case. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928371) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 1:58 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop it's valid journalism to make the point that defendants are locked up on the flimsiest of cases where the cops and prosecutors do shady shit and there isn't even close to evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and the jurors are complete morons, even if those defendants probably did the crime.
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Date: December 14th, 2014 1:59 PM Author: irate orchid psychic "there isn't even close to evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt"
Is Adnan's case supposed to be one of those instances? |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:02 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell I'm guessing that 100% of people with IQs of 115 or over would have voted to acquit, even if there is reason to believe that Adnan was the most likely murderer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928433) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:04 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928444) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:11 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater "I'm guessing that 100% of people with IQs of 115 or over would have voted to acquit"
Let's amend this to people with IQs of between 110-120 - as we like to call them on xoxo "redditors."
If you're either smarter or dumber than this, you'll realize that voting to acquit Adnan is based on your own over analysis.
The facts of the case that matter are much, much simpler than presented in Serial. There's an eye witness who ties Adnan to the murder, and that eye witness had special knowledge of the murder. There's also cell phone records tying Adnan to the place the body was buried during the time it was buried.
That's it. That's way more than you need to show that beyond a reasonable doubt Adnan was involved in the murder.
Beyond a reasonable doubt does not mean that everything Jay said is correct, or that beyond a reasonable doubt the state's timeline and motive are correct.
It's just whether or not Adnan killed her. We know beyond a reasonable doubt he did because there are no other alternatives that are reasonable. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:16 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell "We know beyond a reasonable doubt he did because there are no other alternatives that are reasonable."
I don't think it works that way bro: the prosecution's story doesn't make sense because of X, Y, and Z, but I can't think of another killer, so fuck it, let's convict.
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:20 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater Of course it does. We have an eye witness with special knowledge of the murder saying Adnan did it.
The only alternatives are that (a) Jay is framing Adnan - which to me doesn't constitute a reasonable doubt given how ridiculous it would be, or (b) Adnan was in on the murder in a lesser role, in which case I don't have a problem charging him with murder if he was in fact only an accessory to murder who won't testify which actually happened.
Like what is your reasonable doubt here? That Jay is a genius gambling murderer? |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:25 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell I'm not even sure I understand your point. A criminal trial isn't about some Matlock moment and uncovering what actually happened to Hae Lee. The only question is did the prosecution prove that defbro did it. When the manner in which defbro is supposed to have done the crime doesn't make any fucking sense, a jury is supposed to throw up their hands and say, "this doesnt make any fucking sense" and acquit.
I agree that in practice, juries say "Defbro has not provided us with a better explanation" but that is because they are not smart. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:35 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater The point is you are all trying to make this case much more complicated than it is. The state doesn't have to prove that Adnan killed Hae at 5:37 pm in the Best Buy parking lot. They just have to prove that he did it.
Now I think we can all agree that:
(1) Jay has special knowledge of the murder due to his finding of the car.
(2) Adnan's cell phone places the cell phone at the site of where Hae was buried.
(3) Jay has implicated Adnan as the murderer.
Given that we all accept 1-3, it becomes a binary question. Was Adnan heavily involved in the murder, of is Jay just trying to frame him?
To me, the idea that Jay is trying to frame him is preposterous. As soon as Jay goes to the police, he is their #2 suspect. That means if someone did take roll and Adnan was at track practice, if he was with someone else going to a movie, if he had any way of proving where he was - Jay is getting the death penalty. Jay is also going to fry if he fucked up and left any physical evidence at the murder scene, or if Adnan can prove that Jay alone had his cell phone and car. That's ridiculous.
So if that is ridiculous, and there are no other scenarios that are consistent with 1-3, then you've proved it beyond a reasonable doubt. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:45 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell No, they don't have to prove that he killed her at any particular time or precise location. Obviously this is a fruitless conversation. But you're basing your conclusion in large part on the testimony of a biased witness who has holes in his story. To me, that is the definition of reasonable doubt. I think people can only reach a contrary conclusion if they reverse the burden of proof - which is what frequently happens in criminal trials.
If I were a defbro with a case like this, I would definitely request a bench trial. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:48 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater Can you explain how you think Jay is biased? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928971) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:50 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell Bias to conceal one's own involvement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928985) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:53 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater But then you're essentially saying that Jay did it and framed Adnan.
In my opinion, we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this is not what happened. It's too outlandish. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:56 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell "In my opinion, we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this is not what happened."
Do you see the problem with this? If you do not, or your response is that there are only two possible stories, then I'm not sure what to say. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:05 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater What I don't think you seem to be grasping is that while there are an infinite number of possibilities, many of them are so unlikely they aren't worth mention.
Draw yourself a probability tree and assume that beyond a reasonable doubt = 95% confidence.
So in my opinion we would have something like:
(a) Jay is telling more or less a fuzzy version of the truth = 60%
(b) Jay is hiding many facts and deliberately lying to protect himself or Jen, but Adnan was still heavily involved 38.5%
(c) Jay committed the murder on his own and framed Adnan after the fact = 0.5%
(d) Jay committed the murder with the deliberate intention of framing Adnan 0.5%
(e) Something else crazy happened - from the implanting memories into Jay's head to Jay being a manchurian candidate sent to destroy Adnan who was to be our savior = .5% chance cumulatively
So if you see above, I showed my work. I would love for this people who say "you can't possibly say he did it beyond a reasonable doubt!" to show their work. Because if you're assigning a 50% chance that Jay is framing Adnan, you're the one who is not being honest. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:22 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell I agree that you can completely rule out (d) and (e) based on evidence presented. I also agree that it is not the prosecution's job to affirmatively rule out alternative theories.
My point is much more simple: we are nearly 100% certain that the crime did not occur the way that the prosecution attempted to prove that it did, and the way that the only witness (who has a motive to throw someone else under the bus) testified that it did. You can try to minimize this if you want, but really, the only points of Jay's story that we can believe beyond a reasonable doubt are: (1) He was somehow involved in burying the body. (2) He was somehow involved in ditching the car.
If your response is that there are serious doubts about an alternative story, I will once again respond with that's not supposed to be defbro's problem.
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:09 PM Author: sickened brunch you got destroyed in this subthread. hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929046) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:35 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop they're both making valid points and kinda arguing about different things, and i'm not sure they're that far apart.
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:38 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell Yes, but I'm the only one starting from the correct place w/r/t burdens of proof. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929182) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:00 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater The burden of proof is the burden of proof. Quit thinking like a law school gunner and start thinking logically.
If the evidence presented shows there is less than a 5% chance the murder was perpetrated without the efforts of Adnan, you've met the burden.
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:07 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell No, what the evidence shows is that there is less than a 5% chance that the murder was not perpetrated without the efforts of Jay. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929336) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:11 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater Dude, shut up or show your work. Break down the probability of each scenario you think is plausible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929363) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:19 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell You don't get it. I don't care about which scenarios are plausible. All I care is that there is only evidence of 1 scenario introduced at trial, and I have reasonable doubts about that scenario. In this limited analysis, I don't give a fuck about what actually happened. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929389) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:24 PM Author: Wine Shaky Jap Senate (burden of proof masterman) so you're stupider than the avg redittor. got it. leave it to the pumo. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:26 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928872) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:37 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater ^^^Guy ignoring that an eye witness with special knowledge of the case testified to the defendant's admission of guilt, as well as burying the body in a location where the defendant's cell phone was placed at the time of burial, because "there might not have been a payphone at Best Buy in 1999!" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928911) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:42 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell ^ Guy ignoring fact that eye witness (with special knowledge of the case) has a changing story with fairly significant holes in it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928934) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:46 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater The holes aren't significant in a way that suggest Adnan had no involvement.
Perhaps Jay is hiding the fact that Jenn was also involved. Perhaps he is trying to minimize his own involvement.
But nothing in the inconsistencies in his testimony to me suggests that he is either (a) trying to frame Adnan or (b) had nothing to do with the murder. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:11 PM Author: sickened brunch What are the fairly significant holes and how do they create reasonable doubt that Adnan is the killer? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929055) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:03 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop based on ONLY the evidence presented at trial, and us not being make any inference regarding adnan's failure to testify, etc etc, it seems from prior threads that a jury of xo poasters would unanimously find that that there was reasonable doubt. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928439) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:05 PM Author: irate orchid psychic That doesn't surprise me but I think it's ridiculous that people are seriously taking the view that only retards or fools could fail to find reasonable doubt.
Edit: I didn't see "unanimously" which does not seem consistent with some of the threads I've read. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:07 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop xo shitlibs and xo conservaheros all easily find reasonable doubt. that tells you something. i do agree w the other poaster that anyone w a 110 iq would feel the same. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928452) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:08 PM Author: irate orchid psychic idk I have a hard time signing on with that apparent consensus -- I haven't arrived at any conclusion of whether reasonable doubt existed, but mostly because I think it all boils down to Jay's credibility, which is exceptionally hard to gauge without seeing and hearing the testimony firsthand. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928462) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:13 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop yeah, but we can only go based on what we have. we have audio tapes of jay and he comes off as shady imo, plus his inconsistent statements should have been a gold mine at cross if adnan didnt have some shrew scary bitch atty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928485) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:15 PM Author: tantric philosopher-king I agree that it comes out of Jay's credibility which is reasonable to doubt in almost any case. The really interesting question is what went on between Jay and the police prior to his tapes interviews his plea deal indicates that he was going very favorable treatment in exchange for very favorable testimony and it's entirely possible that the police and Jay together constructed a story that put the murder on Adnan it it's entirety while minimizing Jay's involvement which is probably not accurate it seems more likely that Jay was an accessory before the fact however the police would've had a very difficult time convincing either Jay or Adnon if they had charged both with murder and had not gotten crossed testimony from the two defendants
Sorry this was dictated |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 1:53 PM Author: Concupiscible smoky alpha the Innocence project lady seemed like a real fucking weirdo. wouldn't surprise me that much if the people running it are like her.
Actual paraphrased quote from her: "His motive was her breaking up with him? That makes no sense! People get dumped all the time and don't murder." |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 1:54 PM Author: irate orchid psychic Have you listened to the part about how there might have been racial/ethnic bias? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928378) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:00 PM Author: Concupiscible smoky alpha yeah, there was some stuff in the bail hearing, but I'm guessing to overturn a conviction there needs to be more than that (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928410) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 1:54 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell it is motive, but a very weak one considering the circumstances (nobody thought he was broken up about it, fucking other girls, etc). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928380) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 1:59 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop cr.
but adnan's weak motive is still more of a motive than jay's motive to kill hae alone, which seems like zero motive. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:38 PM Author: Shivering cerebral trailer park didn't her diary say that he went insane about the breakup? i didn't listen that closely. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928616) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 1:57 PM Author: tantric philosopher-king IT MAKES ALL THE SENSE THAT HE CANT EXPLAIN THOSE 6 HOURS!!! ITS BECAUSE HE IS INNOCENT!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928391) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:00 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell Srs question: what evidence corroborates Jay's story? Is it just the phone call to Nisha - who apparently does not remember speaking to Adnan and Jay on that day? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928415) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:07 PM Author: tantric philosopher-king 3 minute call nisha while adnan was supposed to be at track practice and away from his cell phone - nisha had voicemail set up on that phone, couldn't be a butt dial
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:16 PM Author: Concupiscible smoky alpha she *didn't* have voicemail, but at trial she remembers talking to them briefly.
I think adnan supporters say that she was remembering a different conversation and that it was a butt dial |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:32 PM Author: tantric philosopher-king Hmm link? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928585) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:48 PM Author: Concupiscible smoky alpha couldn't find the thing about the voicemail but I distinctly remember Sarah Koenig confronting Adnan about that
Adnan had two trials. The first trial ended in a mistrial after a juror overheard the judge referring to defense counsel as a liar. But, before that mistrial was declared, Nisha testified at the first trial, and this is what she said when asked about the call where she talked to Jay:
Ummm, it’s a little hard to recall, but I remember [Adnan] telling me that Jay invite- invited him over to a video store that he worked at. And, he basically well Adnan walked in with his cell phone and then like- he told me to speak with Jay and I was like ‘okay’ cause Jay wanted to say hi so I said hi to Jay. And that’s all I can really recall. And then, when asked about what time of day that call occurred, Nisha responded, "I would think towards the evening, but I can’t be exactly sure."
As Sarah Koenig notes in the sixth episode, there are two problems with this testimony, one obvious and one less obvious. The obvious problem is that Nisha thinks the call was "towards the evening" when the call on January 13th was actually at 3:32 P.M. That's not a huge deal because Nisha herself says she's not sure about the timing of the call, and you can even legitimately construe a 3:32 P.M. call as being "towards the evening."
The bigger, less obvious, problem is that Hae's murder was on January 13th and that Jay didn't take the job at the video store until the end of January. Moreover, Jay mostly worked nights at the video store. This would tend to corroborate Nisha's testimony but place the Adnan/Jay/Nisha call weeks after Hae's murder.
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:55 PM Author: tantric philosopher-king 3:32 is the towards the evening in the north in January, when days are very short.
If she didn't have voicemail, a butt dial could last 3 minutes if no one picked up, right? I'm not sure what to do with the video store. I don't know if it's importsnt at all. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:57 PM Author: Concupiscible smoky alpha video store is crucial because jay started working there a few weeks after the murder. she's clearly remembering a different call.
and yes, it's possible the butt dial lasted 2-3 minutes if no one picked up at her landline |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:10 PM Author: tantric philosopher-king Partial corroboration by location of car (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928472) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 3:15 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater (1) He knew where the car was ditched (this is obviously the biggest thing as it shows he had special knowledge)
(2) Phone records and locations
(3) They went to that girls house together
(4) The fact that he basically was turning himself in to be an accessory to murder and providing the cops with enough evidence to lock him up for life if he slipped up. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:00 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928418) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:08 PM Author: Puce comical field main people i briefly dated a girl who worked there. total shrew cunt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928460) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 2:17 PM Author: Concupiscible smoky alpha describe the level of self-righteousness (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26928506) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:15 PM Author: sickened brunch As this thread demonstrated, yes there are still insane libs who think Adnan is innocent. Once they started grasping for the racist/muslim angle it was basically confirmed that they have nothing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929070) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:27 PM Author: Wine Shaky Jap Senate hurr durr pigs always get their guy hurr durr can't doubt a jury conviction hurr durr a complete lack of incriminating forensic evidence means nothing hurr durr eye witness testimony from a single extremely unreliable eye witness means everything hurr durr i'm a pumo hehehe libs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929121) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:28 PM Author: supple persian resort (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929124) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:29 PM Author: sickened brunch JFC are you a millennial? Shut the fuck up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929128) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:30 PM Author: Wine Shaky Jap Senate oooo the shitpumo is hissing maf now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929132) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:31 PM Author: sickened brunch Sorry I don't feel like parsing retard millennial speak, little breh. Since you are clearly the one who is MAF, please explain why you're so angry that Adnan is in prison and that shitlbs are incapable of showing any innocence? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929140) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:34 PM Author: Wine Shaky Jap Senate just do shift the burden of proof lol sorry the state can't prove it's case to non sub-100 iq bootlickig pieces of shit lil shitpumo breh |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:36 PM Author: sickened brunch Sorry I don't feel like trying to decipiher your posts. Learn to speak english dumbfuck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929177) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:38 PM Author: Wine Shaky Jap Senate get maf shitpumo get maf (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929185) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:39 PM Author: sickened brunch LOL at this retard. Try breathing into a paper bag little guy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929190) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:40 PM Author: Wine Shaky Jap Senate you're done here. thanks for the tryout. back to tls you go (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929195) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:42 PM Author: sickened brunch LOL at this angry little mutant. Keep posting ad hominems; you're "winning" here! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929210) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:44 PM Author: Wine Shaky Jap Senate "though my stupidity is transparent and powerful my pumo will protect me!" the tlser convinced himself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929219) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:45 PM Author: sickened brunch (MAF) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929223) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:45 PM Author: Wine Shaky Jap Senate (low iq) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929227) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:46 PM Author: sickened brunch (MAF) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929228) |
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Date: December 19th, 2014 12:00 AM Author: Henna flatulent idiot market Worse - he's canadian (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26960283) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:30 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929138) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:32 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop ? nobody on xo is convinced adnan is innocent. i think xo consensus is that he more likely than not did it, but there wasnt enough ev at trial to convict. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929144) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:34 PM Author: sickened brunch That perception is based 100% on the obfusciation presented by SK. No one on xo knows what it was like to be on the jury because SK is a stupid bitch and didnt present the story that way. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929154) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:35 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop fair. but even with SK being a stupid shitlib kike bitch, nobody on xo is a crusader for adnan's actual innocence.
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:37 PM Author: sickened brunch So you say but some of the posters like the MAF guy above seem to be on a crusade. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929180) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:40 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop no, he's not crusading for actual innocence, meaning adnan didnt do it. he's crusading for the jury verdict being bullshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929194) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:41 PM Author: sickened brunch He knows nothing new based on the posters below. Why is he so MAF? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929199) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:36 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell This is so obvious that it's not even worth saying. Yes, if there are facts that SK has not presented to listeners, our analysis would change. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929170) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:38 PM Author: sickened brunch Please state your IQ before engaging me further. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929186) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:41 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell I agree that my second sentence was not entirely fair to your point. My first sentence is still true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929200) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:43 PM Author: sickened brunch It's true about your post. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929216) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:39 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen lmao i know that 95 IQ pumo was probably pissing himself with joy when he figured out that the way that people present facts about a situation affects the way that others think about that situation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929192) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:40 PM Author: sickened brunch And yet people are MAF that Adnan is sitting in a cell. Why? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929197) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:41 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen if you need it explained to you, you're too dumb to get it anyway (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929203) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:42 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop cr.
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:43 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell cr cr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929215) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:44 PM Author: sickened brunch No I get entirely what the burden of proof concept is. I think it's hilarious that after 10 episodes of this lib tripe, not one of you shitlibs can cogently articulate why the jury was wrong. Instead we have a bunch of 115 shitheads bumping each other's ad homs. This sort of analysis will surely serve Adnan well on appeal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929222) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:47 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen Do you post on TLS? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929236) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:47 PM Author: sickened brunch Oh cool, another ad hominem. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929242) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:48 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen not an ad hom, real question. Do you post on TLS? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929244) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:48 PM Author: sickened brunch Disingenuous and full of ad homs. Pretty much a typical shitlib. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929250) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:49 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen Do you post on TLS? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929253) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:53 PM Author: sickened brunch (Clever, interesting poster who makes good posts) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929266) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:54 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen Do you post on TLS? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929277) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:00 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen UPDATE: He posts on TLS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929305) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:02 PM Author: sickened brunch Stay angry, little lib. Stay angry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929319) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:11 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen Do you post on TLS, though? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929360) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:47 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell "In my opinion, we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this is not what happened. It's too outlandish."
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:51 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop the jury "got it right" in the sense that their common sense would suggest that adnan did it, especially given his failure to testify or present any other exculpatory evidence.
but that's not the standard. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:43 PM Author: sickened brunch LOL and another shitlib has nothing to say. Why are you retards so angry? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929213) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:48 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop look, adnan's case isnt the best example of someone rotting in jail who was wrongly convicted. this isnt some black guy who was framed by some racist cops in the south and totally didnt do it, and newly uncovered dna proves his actual innocence, and he still cant get out bc of some legal technicality.
but it's more interesting journalism to present a case of a guy who is probably guilty but, nonetheless, may very well have been convicted based on evidence that didnt exceed the reasonable doubt standard. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:49 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell CR. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929252) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:52 PM Author: sickened brunch Ok, so we all agree that Adnan is not innocent. And we agree that Jay probably lied about stuff. And the prosecutor's theory wasn't 100% accurate. But has she presented enough new facts for anyone to be certain the jury was wrong? The snarky responses above clearly say no. Yet all the shitlibs are fuming at me for some reason. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929261) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:54 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop see above what i said -- the jury "getting it right" doesnt mean that they voted to convict based on a proper application of the reasonable doubt standard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929275) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:55 PM Author: sickened brunch Doesn't explain 1) why the jury was wrong under the "proper application" or 2) why there are a bunch of fuming retards circling this thread. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929286) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:58 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop nobody on xo seems to have read the trial transcript and knows exactly what was presented and obviously that shitlib kike is telling us an incomplete story of the trial, but based on what we know so far, one doesnt have to be a muslim-sympathizing shitlib to have questions about whether there was reasonable doubt. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929301) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:01 PM Author: sickened brunch Sure and I question it too. But you guys have made up your mind, even thugh you aren't able to pinpoint exactly why other than I assume Jay is shady and durrrr cell phone towers are unreliable. The retard outrage itt is clearly unwarranted. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929311) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:08 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater "one doesnt have to be a muslim-sympathizing shitlib to have questions about whether there was reasonable doubt"
My point in this thread is to point out that if you do have reasonable doubt, you should have a reasonable alternative theory - which is something no one is ever able to present.
This isn't a case where we found the ex-boyfriends footprint in the blood spatter and the entire case is based on that. There's an eye witness claiming there was the burial of a body and a confession.
The fact that an alternative theory was never presented at trial is extremely telling. As if the fact that Adnan didn't take the stand.
While you can't hold it against him that he didn't testify, you can hold it against him that his friend was like "we buried the body together and hung out all day", a cell phone record linked him to the park where the body was buried, and the only thing Adnan and his lawyer had to say about it was "so you said you were at McDonalds at noon but really you were there at 3:00 pm! and isn't it true that the state gave you the business card of a lawyer!" |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:11 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell This is our disagreement:
"My point in this thread is to point out that if you do have reasonable doubt, you should have a reasonable alternative theory - which is something no one is ever able to present."
I, and apparently everyone else ITT, think it's enough to say that there is reasonable doubt about the defendant on trial. Full stop. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:27 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929425) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:11 PM Author: Wine Shaky Jap Senate "My point in this thread is to point out that if you do have reasonable doubt, you should have a reasonable alternative theory - which is something no one is ever able to present. " yes that is a legal standard. fucking moron |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:19 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater an eye witness confession by someone with special knowledge of the crime which is corroborated by showing the defendant's cell phone (which he never said was missing) was at the site of the burial is more than enough to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt for me.
at that point, the defendant or his defenders need to show me why the above is false.
do me a favor, show me what your probability tree is. what percentage chance do you think there is for each scenario you think is plausible? |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:29 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell Dude enough with the probability tree. The entire fucking point of a criminal trial is that prosbros try to prove Scenario X and defbros try to knock down scenario X. You can knock down Scenario X by showing evidence of Scenario Y or by showing Scenario X did not happen. If you choose the second option, Scenario Y is irrelevant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929439) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:49 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater No. This is wrong. It's whether or not they prove beyond a reasonable doubt the defendant committed the crime - not whether or not scenario X happened.
Consider this scenario:
A and B are locked in a room together. Three days later, the door is opened and B is dead with A's knife in his back.
The prosecutor's show at trial that A's fingerprints are the only ones on the knife and it was impossible for anyone else to go in the room. They show at trial that A was mad at B for sleeping with A's wife. They have an expert testify that the body shows B was likely killed in the first two hours the door was closed.
B's defense attorney gets up and says that it is unlikely A killed B for sleeping with his wife because they were in an open relationship and A actually encouraged his wife to sleep with B. In addition, their expert witness testifies that the state's witness is using bad science, and that B was killed on the third day.
---Extrapolating your statement, you're saying that since there is reasonable doubt as to whether or not Scenario X happened, you must acquit A.
I'm saying it doesn't matter whether or not Scenario X happened, just that given the evidence there are no other alternatives other than A killing B that would cast reasonable doubt on finding A guilty. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:59 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell This is my last response ITT. You're right. I was being loose with "Scenario X" language.
This is more like the following: A, B, and C are "locked" in a gigantic mall together. Even though they are "locked" in, there is a door through which anyone else in the world can come and go. After 3 days, A is found strangled to death. There is no physical evidence linking either B or C to A's strangling. C testifies that B hated and killed A, and that C helped move the body. Other people testify that B did not in fact hate A. C lies repeatedly in telling his story. Police can only corroborate that C moved the body.
Clearly, at some point the burden goes to the defendant to show that he is innocent despite the fact that he is found with the murder weapon next to the victim's body. I don't think Jay's story gets you there. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 6:03 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater Agreed, except they can corroborate that (i) B's brand new cell phone was at the part of the mall where the body was buried (to which B claims he loaned it to an acquaintance), (ii) B stopped calling A as soon as she died, (iii) a person known only to B was called by the phone, (iv) B had written out that he wanted to kill A, and (v) there were an infinite amount of other people in the mall, such that C would never have been convicted of being an accessory to murder if he had just kept his mouth shut but instead chose to gamble and cooperate in hopes of beating the murder that way. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929660) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:55 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell She has not presented facts for me to be certain that Adnan did not do it, or even conclude that it is more likely than not that he is innocent. It is enough for me to conclude that the prosecution did not prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. XOXOHTH. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929281) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 4:56 PM Author: sickened brunch That's nice. You still didn't answer the question. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929288) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:06 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell Are you asking us (1) WHY the jury got it wrong, or (2) WHAT SPECIFICALLY gives me reasonable doubt?
If (1) I have no idea, but I suspect an inability to process information similar to what you have displayed in this thread.
If (2) I suspect you are really asking me to prove why Adnan is innocent. But that is not my, or anyone else's, point ITT. What specifically gives me reasonable doubt is that the prosecution depends 100% on a not credible witness. The only things that can be corroborated go to Jay's own involvement. His claims about Adnan's involvement are not independently corroborated. The only thing that comes close is the call to Nisha, but she doesn't even remember the call. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:14 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater It doesn't rely 100% on a not credible witness. Adnan's cell phone was placed at Leekin park at the time Jay said they were burying the body - and Adnan never reported that his cell phone was missing.
Also the other stuff - his suspicious behavior at that other girls house, the motives, the writings saying that he was going to kill the victim, etc. That stuff is all minor, but the cell phone location at Leekin park is huge. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:16 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen " and Adnan never reported that his cell phone was missing. "
do you listen to the show or just read about it and then poast? the whole thing is that he stated that he gave jay his cell phone |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:29 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater just loan your car and your brand new first cell phone to someone you call "more of an acquaintance" but forget to tell the cops about it until they present you with the phone evidence
also, don't call your ex-gf once she goes missing even though you previously talked to her all the time and were carpooling with her the day she went missing
also, say you have "no one to blame but yourself," even though your story is that your friend murdered your first love and framed you for murder |
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Date: December 15th, 2014 8:03 AM Author: Diverse vermilion piazza Jay admitted he had Adnan's cell phone for portions of the day. This was common practice at the time you dumb millennial. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26933946) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:03 PM Author: Copper fragrant striped hyena love of her life shitlib here, i think he's guilty. he's either psychopath conartist or in deep denial about it. probably a combination of both. he'll probably never admit to it since it brings such shame to his family. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929323) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:21 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen i think some pumos ITT would benefit from reviewing this: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/dr/hln/www/release/sites/default/files/imagecache/textarticle_640/2013/07/12/173362387.jpg (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929398) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:27 PM Author: Naked Razzle Hell It's just the one pumo and his dumb probability tree. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929429) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:30 PM Author: Wine Shaky Jap Senate it's tmf lol and a rondo low iq shitpumo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929458) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:30 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater The standard is generally 95%.
Show me a few plausible scenarios that you think add up to a 6% chance Adnan wasn't involved, and I'll shut up. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:32 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen OK
1) Jay killed her
2) Do you post onTLS? |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:40 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater So myself and the jury thought there was not a 5% chance that Jay killed her, given that he essentially turned himself into the police and would face the death penalty if Adnan was able to provide any sort of alibi or if he left any physical evidence at the scene. It'd be a preposterously stupid move given that it seems the likely scenario would be that (i) Adnan would tell the cops he was at track practice, which the coach would corroborate, (ii) Adnan would tell the cops - oh yeah Jay had my car that day and borrowed my phone - do you think he did that to kill Hae? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929508) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:52 PM Author: bateful very tactful quadroon Why again did Jay turn himself in? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929588) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 6:05 PM Author: Fiercely-loyal Bearded Volcanic Crater It's unclear because the podcast doesn't dwell on it in order to create doubt.
It's really hard to think why Jay would cooperate with the police unless he was telling the truth and felt guilty / scared. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:48 PM Author: bateful very tactful quadroon If the standard is generally 95%, I guess that means you would take 21/20 odds that Adnan did it?
I sure as fuck wouldn't. |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 6:05 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop off-topic, but link to legal scholarship on 95%? (or any % for any other bop besides more likely than not.) poli sci shithead lawyers dont like quantifying this shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929667) |
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Date: December 24th, 2014 5:48 PM Author: disturbing learning disabled fanboi library percentage is impermissible argument (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26992834) |
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Date: December 24th, 2014 5:48 PM Author: disturbing learning disabled fanboi library literally unconstitutional to assign a percentage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26992831) |
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Date: December 14th, 2014 5:33 PM Author: godawful snowy state 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26929478) |
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Date: December 15th, 2014 7:14 PM Author: irate orchid psychic Just finished episode 11. JFC Koenig is naive as shit and really stretching to defend Adnan. She's not asking the hardest question, which is why on earth Jay would fabricate the story and, if he did, why the fuck he'd have any reason to kill Hae. It's completely obvious that if Adnan had nothing to do with Hae's murder, then Jay is almost certainly guilty. Yet Koenig avoids this obvious point, and frankly so does Adnan -- the whole "I'm not angry at him because I'm at peace" attitude makes no sense when you know that Jay lying means Jay is likely the fucking murderer. Instead, Koenig is content to poke small holes in witness memory etc, but they're mostly beside the point.
Side note, I don't get the 0Ls/1Ls ITT who seem to think that reasonable doubt exists if the prosecution's overarching narrative doesn't add up. So fucking what? Prosecutors take the strongest facts they can -- which in this case pointed to Adnan being the most likely killer -- and try to tell the story as best they can. It might not always be the right story of how things went down, but that doesn't really matter. |
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Date: December 16th, 2014 9:55 PM Author: violet odious ticket booth If I can't believe how and why he killed her, can I really believe that he killed her in the absence of the smoking gun? I suppose that is a metaphysical question. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26945044) |
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Date: December 16th, 2014 10:00 PM Author: Aromatic Low-t Range Electric Furnace he was MAF he got dumped for whitey, he literally wrote on paper that he was going to kill her, and hardcore Muslims generally don't need an excuse to murder women. which part are you having trouble with? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26945084) |
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Date: December 16th, 2014 10:03 PM Author: irate orchid psychic koenig and her naive listeners have constructed some unrealistic scenario where the motive only lines up if adnan were constantly brooding and outwardly depressed up until the time of the murder. "oh he maybe banged another girl after breaking up with hae, he clearly was totally over her." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26945113) |
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Date: December 16th, 2014 10:13 PM Author: Aromatic Low-t Range Electric Furnace on episode 3 she lets him completely gloss over his answer to why he immediately stopped trying to call her after she was killed. if she had even a slight interest in truth-seeking she would've pushed a little bit harder on something so damning. since then the horrifying reality has gradually sunk in that this entire series is the product of a reverse profiling shitlib crusade. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26945204) |
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Date: December 16th, 2014 10:19 PM Author: Vibrant brethren clown his answer for why he isn't more vocal about Jay framing him and lying was equally bullshit. "It is what it is." LMAO just a chill bro framed for murder, interviewed for dozens of hours and has no comment about how he feels about the guy who *allegedly* put him there based on total lies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26945249) |
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Date: December 16th, 2014 10:19 PM Author: irate orchid psychic I really can't stand koenig's approach to bad evidence for adnan. she briefly brings it up to him almost apologetically, lets someone notorious for talking his way out of trouble explain it away, and doesn't press him on anything. then she goes on for 40 minutes about trivial holes in the prosecution's theory. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26945254) |
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Date: December 16th, 2014 10:35 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop her goal is to drag this bullshit on for as long as possible. if she cross-examines him, he tells her to fuck off, and it's over. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26945401) |
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Date: December 19th, 2014 12:04 AM Author: Henna flatulent idiot market Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26960299) |
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Date: December 16th, 2014 10:13 PM Author: Vibrant brethren clown this is cr all of her endless head-scratching and pontificating about minor holes in the State's narrative are boring as hell, and totally beside the point. Jay took the cops right to Hae's car, so he has some direct knowledge about the murder. How can you have a podcast series about this case that barely even addresses this point, yet spends an entire episode discussing dumb rumors about Adnan? |
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Date: December 16th, 2014 10:19 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26945251) |
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Date: December 16th, 2014 10:14 PM Author: Bronze place of business gaming laptop 1st paragraph is very well said. ive been saying this for weeks. completely cr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26945211) |
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Date: December 15th, 2014 7:17 PM Author: laughsome chartreuse laser beams cruise ship "not right now lib babe im trying to explicate an argument in favor of either a piece of shit muslim immigrant or a relatively small time african-american thug"
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Date: December 16th, 2014 9:46 PM Author: irate orchid psychic (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26944978) |
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Date: December 16th, 2014 9:55 PM Author: Aromatic Low-t Range Electric Furnace based on everything presented so far I would 100% vote guilty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26945046) |
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Date: December 16th, 2014 10:06 PM Author: Copper fragrant striped hyena love of her life do you think he's a psychopath? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26945139) |
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Date: December 19th, 2014 12:02 AM Author: Henna flatulent idiot market Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26960289) |
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Date: December 24th, 2014 5:45 PM Author: hairraiser liquid oxygen (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2756186&forum_id=2#26992826) |