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forgive student loan debt, stimulate the economy
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:05 AM Author: racy juggernaut The rich get richer, and when they get poorer...well, they get bailed out. That's how it seems lately. As Congress prepares to spend a trillion bucks (in addition to the $700 billion bailout from last fall), it makes one wonder when the working middle class will get some love. The pending American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (H.R.1) will no doubt help our economy in some form, but it's not nearly enough and it's not aimed at all demographics. If we can save the suits, why can't we save the common man, right?
Robert Applebaum, an attorney from New York, thinks so and has an idea on how to help many in his shoes -- and trust me, there are many -- while stimulating the economy at the same time. The 35 year old started up an online campaign this month to bail out those "hard-working, educated middle class" suffocating in college loan debt on Facebook. He formed the group "Cancel Student Loan Debt to Stimulate the Economy" because he believes forgiving student loan debt for those making under $150,000 annually would help boost the economy from "the bottom up."
"I struggle to pay my rent and bills and have never defaulted on my student loans," he said Feb. 4. But I also don't spend money on consumer goods anymore -- not only because I can't afford them, but because I'm afraid the situation will only get worse..."
He continued, "One-time tax rebates and meager tax cuts do nothing to stimulate the economy. A recession is as much a psychological phenomenon as anything else. Knowing I'd have an extra $500 per month in my pocket will get me spending again. Multiply that across the country and the economy will start to move again."
Applebaum has been fighting off his own loans since 1998, and owes more now than he did when he graduated. He said he decided to form a group on the social networking powerhouse because he's sick of watching people like him pay the price for choosing to go for higher education and advanced degrees.
"I was watching the news about not only the current economic stimulus package but the second bailout for the financial institutions that's coming down the pike (in addition to the $700 billion TARP bailout). News about lavish vacations, exorbitant bonuses and the redecorating of the Chairman of Merrill Lynch's office absolutely disgusted me," recalled Applebaum, who has seen his group surpass 3,000 in just a few days after he formed it.
"It occurred to me that these guys are responsible for the mess yet they have their hands out asking the taxpayers for billions of dollars [while] continuing to spend money like drunken poets on payday," he added.
Applebaum's not alone in his thought processes. Fellow Facebooker Kevin Bartoy, a 35-year-old archeologist from Old Hickory, TN started up a similar group a few weeks ago because he and his wife have been drowning in student loan debt as well. Applebaum contacted Bartoy, and the two have since banded together, running their respective groups as "sisters." The goal is to gain enough traction it'll grab President Obama's attention. The creation of this petition will surely help.
"This would truly allow the educated lower and middle classes to create a solid foundation for a new economy," Bartoy said. "It is frustrating to be a society in which you need the educational credentials to succeed, but to get them, you have to put yourself in so much debt that you lose your independence in the process."
Applebaum said it'll be hard for Washington to not take this proposal seriously if their movement continues to gain members and online "signatures." At the very least, he said, they have to consider it. "I'm sure there are plenty of Washington staffers in the same boat as me. I'm hoping this will catch the eye of some of them and pass the idea along to the powers that be," he said.
"If nothing else, it warrants a good, hard look and some analysis as to whether it could work... We have an entire class of highly educated poor people. The idea is no crazier than handing over billions if not trillions of additional dollars to the very institutions responsible for the crisis."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-chattman/forgiving-student-loan-de_b_164103.html |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:17 AM Author: Charismatic Dingle Berry Resort That's nearly a trillion dollars. I'm not sure how much debt is for those making over $150,000, but we're probably still talking about well over 500 billion dollars. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975021) |
Date: September 6th, 2010 12:06 AM Author: Geriatric meetinghouse the whole argument boils down to the last sentence; basically, "there are things equally as bad as forgiving student loan debt, so why the fuck not?!" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15974963) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:08 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea Hey, while you're at it, be nice if someone forgave my mortgage. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15974972) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:25 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat wouldn't your mortgage be forgiven if you walked away? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975082) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:26 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea Why would I walk away from 200K in equity? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975092) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:26 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat well then what are you complaining about? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975100) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:34 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea I would like someone to forgive my mortgage. Why are you complaining about student loan debt? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975172) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:38 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat look, you have to acknowledge that for a lot of borrowers it's a total clusterfuck and will fuck our economy for a long time. taking an unduly punitive position will be bad for everyone except for the few who basically scammed their way into getting their hands on that federal loan money. we don't really want to reward them anyway.
and if you were underwater you could walk away. a lot of student borrowers are underwater, so to speak. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:40 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea Too bad. Sorry, you Student loan paupers get zero sympathy from me. You signed the papers, now go act responsibly and pay back the loans quick as a bunny. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975210) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:41 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat what is the rationale for the position you're taking? also, do you support making every type of debt nondischargable? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975218) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:46 AM Author: Charcoal tantric brunch as long as they give up their degrees and give up the right to use them for employment purposes they should be able to discharge the debt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975255) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:48 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat what's your rationale for preventing them from using the degree for employment purposes after acquiring the human capital? seems like it'd be a greater net waste because they couldn't use a skill they'd spent years building.
also, would you only allow it to be entirely discharged? what about partial write downs? could they use the degree if they were given a partial write down? |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:49 AM Author: aphrodisiac windowlicker I wonder how many lawyers would opt for being disbarred in order to have their debt forgiven. Maybe 15%? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975281) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 3:46 AM Author: crystalline dog poop Much much higher...I'd say 35-40%.
I could do a poll of my peers right now, myself included, and I'd think the number would be close to 75-80%. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:28 AM Author: racy juggernaut this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977346) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:50 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat neway, i'd go for the partial write down. i think that better reflects the value of the degree and what they can pay back.
i'd let them use the degree. it'd just be a waste if they couldn't. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:55 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building "i'd let them use the degree. it'd just be a waste if they couldn't."
nice job of rewarding losers, idiot. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:57 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat it rewards everyone else too. they're going to be more productive/pay more taxes/make more money to pay off their debt if they can use the degree. taking it away is just a punitive position that satisfies the anger of people with a misplaced interest in punishing student borrowers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975340) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:03 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building lol. this is complete bullshit. these morons would find a way to blow their money (and max out credit) on the next fads/dreams/fantasies. we'd be right back where we started.
lol @ all the morons who get taken for this ride over & over but never learn anything. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:26 PM Author: useless high-end double fault turdskin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977799) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:30 PM Author: Burgundy galvanic athletic conference No dumbshit. 0% car interest just means he paid too much for the car. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978218) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:04 AM Author: Gold sandwich BOOTSTRAPS VOTERS FTW (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975417) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:59 AM Author: supple chest-beating house idiot The point of collateral is to compensate the lender, not punish the borrower. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975368) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:09 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building the other guy wants to make all of these morons "whole" so we can bail them out again in 3-5 yrs. but imagine the PRODUCTIVITY!
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:44 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat *tumbleweed rolls by as xo waits for your reasoning* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975239) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:47 AM Author: Gold sandwich http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413205&mc=144&forum_id=2#15953871 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975260) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:48 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat post text plz (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975277) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:52 AM Author: Gold sandwich Doesn't have theirself to blame for their predicament. Zero sympathy from me no matter how many sob stories you throw my way.
. . . .
You were supposed to live within your means and not overextend yourself.
. . . .
I paid for lawschool in cash.
. . . .
Mine. I worked for it prior to lawschool, saved, acted responsibly and went to a school with a reasonable tuition and graduated debt free. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:53 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat so your position is based on anger. yah, generally doing things out of pure anger doesn't produce a good result. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975314) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:54 AM Author: Gold sandwich not my position. Guy Noir's position (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975324) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:55 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat oh, then ty for finding thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975327) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:57 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building lol. the foundation of our economy is emotion. why else do morons go 100k+ in debt for TTT degrees? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975338) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:57 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat lolwut? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975347) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:58 AM Author: Gold sandwich The fact that we allow TTT to massively mislead prospective students in a manner that would land a CEO in jail plays a LARGE role. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975355) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:06 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building lol. if you can get through four years of college, you're supposed to know about charlatans and do SUBSTANTIAL research before signing over your life for the empty promise that JD = guaranteed riches.
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:09 AM Author: Gold sandwich ROFL in 50 years when these practices are outlawed people who defended the legality of these practices will be laughed at. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975472) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:10 AM Author: Flesh greedy mediation garrison like that'll happen (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975478) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:11 AM Author: Gold sandwich It is inevitable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975488) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:12 AM Author: Flesh greedy mediation garrison yeah cuz you know the future right?
Whatever dood
All I know is a sucker is born every minute, why is it that no body does their homework? Schools offer what they offer, you can take it or leave it, but it's not their fault only the people who make the decisions. I doubt this will ever change. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:14 AM Author: Gold sandwich LOL
I guess in your mind Ken Lay should never have went to jail. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:16 AM Author: Flesh greedy mediation garrison wtf man, I'm done talking with you and your assumptions
You're comparing apples to oranges, lol enron to Law school departments? Give me a break!
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:18 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat there is some basis for comparison there. they purposely misreport salaries so people will borrow money to attend their schools. how is that better than a company misreporting its financial position so you invest? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975567) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:21 AM Author: Gold sandwich There is a strong and obvious basis for comparison and he knows it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975592) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:24 AM Author: Flesh greedy mediation garrison The difference is though is that one is a major organization committing universal fraud while the other is just marketing itself in a down economy, albeit disingenuously
This is not news in academia man, disciplines rise and fall, popularity and worth rises and falls as well. Oversupply, undersupply.
I'm sure there were a lot of frustrated wood ship building majors when steel plated ships were invented or Astro majors that were too late after space /rocket funding got cut. This shit happens and it has more to do with the state of the world than it does with academic institutions embellishing their facts.
Your assumption may be right in this specific case, but I have a hard time seeing how they are truly similar beyond that. One is an outright fraud and the other has some merit to and is a long established institution that dates back to colonial times, albeit if they may embellish a few facts.
You make your own decisions people, do your research, that's the moral of the story.
In summary: they may be fraudulent on the same principle, but they are in entirely different leagues due to the severity of their disingenuity |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:29 AM Author: Cowardly chartreuse home dude...it's not much of a difference when it involves an investment of thousands of dollars. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975654) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:34 AM Author: Flesh greedy mediation garrison sure but that's not my point or what we are talking about
We were initially talking about whether or not the laws were going to change to discharge student debt and this dood brought up enron
I doubt the laws will change because this shit has happened before many times in different disciplines and I don't remember any 'great student loan bailouts' in my history book when it happened.
If I'm wrong please correct me |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:44 AM Author: Cowardly chartreuse home just bc it hasn't happened in the past doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. people were saying the same thing when obama was running for president "we'll always have a white male as president bc that's how it's always been." but really that line of thinking just leads to a self-fulfilling prophecy.
if enough people decided to raise hell regarding student debt then surely we will get our bailout. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:46 AM Author: Flesh greedy mediation garrison well sure, obviously it could happen, I just don't think it probably will ok?
Call me conservative or whatever, I just don't see it |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:00 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building "if enough people decided to raise hell regarding student debt then surely we will get our bailout."
lol @ trying to organize a movement of that size.
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:34 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building both are easy to dampen, though
INVESTING: diversity (buy multiple stocks in unrelated industries, or broad index funds)
SCHOOLING: look at the websites of major law firms. how many associates went to the University of Denver? |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:32 AM Author: Gold sandwich If a corporation reported profits using the same procedures that schools use it would be considered a crime.
Also, I would add it is horribly inefficient to allow universities to engage in the practices they do. A major reason we require honest accounting is because we want investors to be able to have accurate information to make a decision. Public policy could easily apply the logic you do to education, but it doesn't because we know it would in a significantly higher rates of poor investments.
Many of the problems with students picking bad universities/majors is tied to inaccurate information put out by schools. The benefits of forcing universities to comply with basic accounting principals far outweighs the personal responsibility meme. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:36 AM Author: Flesh greedy mediation garrison Yeah and I agree too mang, I just think Enron was 1000x worse that is all so I didn't like the comparison.
It's not like everyone graduating with a law degree gets screwed though, albeit these days it seems like there is a lot more but that wasn't the case for a long time.
People are still living in this fantasy world created by the boomers. Not everyone graduates with crushing debt either and these people aren't necessarily in a terrible spot, even if they went to a crappy school.
EDIT: And I dunno mang about the personal responsibility thing...I was always taught, even high school that there were BS universities out there and that you really had to do your research. This was coming from my teachers and parents from nearly everyone I knew. We live in america dawg, there are scammers and hyped up shit to buy everywhere, I don't see how this is news. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:42 AM Author: Gold sandwich Oh okay were more in agreement than I realized, comparisons are always difficult.
I guess why I'm hung up on this is that I was touring a prospective student around my LS a month ago as a favor to a friend. I had to explain to this guy that Universities lie about their employment stats. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:45 AM Author: Flesh greedy mediation garrison We were in agreement on some issues, I just don't like it when people make blatant judgments about me, especially to the likes of filth at enron, it's an insult man and you know it.
You're comparing apples and oranges and I didn't appreciate it, I just don't agree that the laws will change like you, but you don't see me insulting you for it. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:44 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building this is wrong. investors could rely on other sources of information, like books, magazines, journals, analysts reports etc (anybody with 1/2 brain avoided the Enron scam)
the same applies to schools. tons of affordable books/magazines explain which institutions are good values and which are not.
this isn't rocket science, nigger. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:50 AM Author: Flesh greedy mediation garrison exactly, wtf we live in the internet age, if you want to know about anything you basically can for free or next to free. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975867) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:04 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building yep, that's why it's a terrible idea to bail out losers. they need to feel the pain of bad judgment and wise the fuck up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975989) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:07 AM Author: Flesh greedy mediation garrison I'm tired of people who think they are entitled to shit
There is no such thing as security no matter what anyone tells you. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:29 AM Author: Cowardly chartreuse home crcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975655) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:19 AM Author: Gold sandwich Yes it is utterly absurd that I'm comparing dishonest practices by corporations and universities that are committed for money. Yup absurd to make the comparison.
100 years ago you would have been denouncing attempts to create accounting rules. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:02 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building i guess the main problem here is that too many americans expect complete honesty from institutions created to sell lies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975959) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:34 PM Author: useless high-end double fault turdskin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977841) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:16 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building lol @ the moronic Enron employees who had much of their 401k invested in a SINGLE stock.
BUBBLE OF DELUSIONAL OPTIMISM
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:17 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975552) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:28 PM Author: useless high-end double fault turdskin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977812) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:28 AM Author: Charcoal tantric brunch if all the people whose debt was forgiven gave up their degrees and gave up the right to use them for employment purposes this would be analogous (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975115) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:29 AM Author: Gold sandwich The number of JDs from TTT that would jump at this deal is staggering. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975131) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:10 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building doubtful. most of them live in a fantasy world where the next gravy train is right around the corner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975483) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:09 AM Author: olive coiffed rehab Doesn't this already exist? Don't they just have to pay 15% of their income above 25k? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15974978) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:22 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building yea, we already have safety nets in place for clowns who drank too much kool aid.
http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/students/english/OtherFormsOfRepay.jsp |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:09 AM Author: supple chest-beating house idiot Killing off a bunch of financial/lending institutions really sounds like a smart way to "stimulate the economy" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15974981) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:12 AM Author: Twinkling boltzmann locus It's HuffPo, bro. Ariana made her millions by marrying a gay guy; try extrapolating that to the broader economy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15974998) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:19 AM Author: aphrodisiac windowlicker cum work for gross old david geffen. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975040) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:26 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat these institutions have been zombies since 07, as they should be. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975088) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:08 AM Author: supple chest-beating house idiot You sound like you're just parroting phrases from the financial press and have no idea what you're actually talking about. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975462) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:27 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat you can say parroting if you want but hundreds of banks have failed over the past couple of years and more would have if not for the bailout that we were told was necessary. the ones that have been propped up by the government are zombies, plain and simple.
http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/info-Failed_Banks-sort.html |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:30 AM Author: supple chest-beating house idiot That's not a good argument for letting even more banks fail by completely canceling perfectly legal debt obligations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977039) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:38 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat they made loans that can't be repaid and not just to students either. they failed in their function of evaluating loans, which isn't surprising given the incentive structures at some of the banks. they should be allowed to fail. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977086) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:29 AM Author: Spruce school cafeteria police squad I would vote for absolutely anyone seriously promising to do this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975123) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:30 AM Author: Gold sandwich Hitler-Stalin 2012 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975135) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 3:22 AM Author: Spruce school cafeteria police squad Where's the fucking ballot? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15976405) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:33 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975164) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:14 AM Author: Swollen halford seeing as how im on pace to pay off my 150k in loans thanks to working like a slave in biglaw and bypassing more attractive career opportunities, if this happens, i am going out in a BLAZE OF FUCKING GLORY. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975519) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:16 AM Author: Gold sandwich This is one reason why it will be difficult to reform the current loan policies. I went through the process so should you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975537) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:26 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975600 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975631) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:43 PM Author: Spruce school cafeteria police squad If that was the logic that was being used then no one would ever get bailouts. Fortunately for me, the irresponsible get bailed out all the time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15982342) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:05 AM Author: Flesh greedy mediation garrison like that'll happen (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975425) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:18 AM Author: sooty underhanded field lol no. discharging student loan debt is just a handout to the future rich. making student debt dischargable in bankruptcy, however, is a sensible policy move. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975568) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:23 AM Author: blathering diverse spot so bk attorneys can get more business? you really want to encourage more people to file for bk? no |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:34 AM Author: Vivacious amethyst deer antler boistinker "so bk attorneys can get more business?"'
I call this stimulus |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:37 AM Author: blathering diverse spot true, but it is perhaps stimulus of the worst kind. encouraging people to be financially irresponsible |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:40 AM Author: sooty underhanded field people are stupid. whenever credit permits, they'll take out huge loans. socially it makes sense to make lenders responsible for exercising discretion, as they're sophisticated institutions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975763) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:48 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building lol. the government is the culprit. guess who guarantees student loans? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975845) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:31 AM Author: supple chest-beating house idiot Canceling debt is much more of an encouragement to be financially irresponsible. At least bankruptcy has some consequences and stigma. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977045) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:38 AM Author: sooty underhanded field the whole student loan market is fucked. stupid 18 year olds are signing away their entire lives for shit degrees. it would make more sense for lenders to lose swiftly and thoroughly when a student loan goes bust; that'll choke off the flow of credit to shit degrees, shit students and shit schools. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975735) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:51 AM Author: Hilarious Church Building you can't really feel sorry for them, given the availability of low-cost options (comm college, state schools, AP exams, etc). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15975875) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:11 AM Author: lavender kitchen cuckold no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15976021) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 3:23 AM Author: Cobalt autistic sanctuary i notice that the article is from january 2009 and that absolutely nothing has been done in this regard since then, which leads me to believe it is a dead letter at best. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15976422) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:06 AM Author: Burgundy galvanic athletic conference haha faggots. go make money and pay off your debts you pieces of shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15976961) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:27 AM Author: Fluffy trip shrine hunting ground Forgive the debt, will never happen.
What should happen is that student loans should be at about 2.5% interest rate. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:26 PM Author: sadistic exhilarant generalized bond jap The jump to 6.8 back in 04 or 05 was fucking criminal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977801) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:38 PM Author: useless high-end double fault turdskin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977859) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 6:46 PM Author: racy juggernaut absolutely. i can't believe my zero risk, federally guaranteed debt is at 8.5%. fucking robbery. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15980782) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:18 AM Author: drab at-the-ready private investor property At LEAST freeze usury interest rates! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15976993) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:22 AM Author: frisky tattoo At most, the government should forgive the interest on those loans. However, they definitely should NOT forgive the principle as that would be a huge slap in the face to anyone who has ever paid for schooling or paid off their loans in full.
*Perhaps there could be a deal where your loans would be forgiven, but you'd have to give up your degree (sort of like how home owners can walk away from their house). |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:24 AM Author: Bat Shit Crazy Hominid Site *majors in art history* *owns an iPhone* *leases a new car* *buys a Mac notebook* *spends $8 per beer each Friday night at happy hour* *eats out several times a week* *DEMANDS STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS BECAUSE IT COSTS TOO MUCH MONEY* |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:28 AM Author: frisky tattoo CR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977027) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:30 AM Author: Swollen halford lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977042) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:32 AM Author: supple chest-beating house idiot so credited (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977048) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:30 AM Author: Burgundy galvanic athletic conference (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977365) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:43 PM Author: useless high-end double fault turdskin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977894) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:04 PM Author: Bat Shit Crazy Hominid Site Well, first, you're one of XO's shittiest posters, so I could fucking care less about how shitty your life is. And second, the fact that 90%+ of the student loan population is living a charmed life bitching about loans makes my post far more accurate than your piss-poor complaining about how sad your life is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978467) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:35 AM Author: buff space There's an element of truth here.
Think about what the boomers did when they returned from WWII and graduated college on the GI Bill and had no debt. The world was their OYSTER and they went out and innovated. Today's indebted grads might have ideas or the willingness to branch out and create something remarkable, but they're wage slaves who need cash flow to fund their student loan debts (not to mention, as many do above, their entitled lifestyles).
I'm not saying that everyone would turn into entrepreneurs if their loan debt dissolved, but it might unleash our creative forces in such a way that the fed govt could be making a sound investment. Compared to the stimulus, would this be THAT unsound of an investment? |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:37 AM Author: frisky tattoo Bro, most people just made bad decisions. Lets not sugarcoat. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977078) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:40 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat you have to admit, it's pretty dumb that student loans are the only kind of debt you can't default on. it's also unsustainable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977098) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:41 AM Author: frisky tattoo No, it's not pretty dumb because with student loans, you still have the degree. If the degree was revoked along with the discharge of debt, that'd be a different story.
People want to have their cake and eat it to. If you want to discharge your loans, give up your degree as well. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:43 AM Author: drab at-the-ready private investor property Interest designs them so they take forever to get paid though! They're a massive ponzi scheme. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977122) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:43 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat there are a number of students who would give up the degree.
though i think taking away the degree would be dumb. it's not like it's collateral that can satisfy a judgment. the bank won't benefit from them losing the degree like they would a homeowner giving up a house.
what is the rationale, in your opinion, for making student loans nondischargable, or requiring them to give up the degree to discharge them? |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:45 AM Author: Gold sandwich punish the borrower (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977134) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:46 AM Author: frisky tattoo My rationale is that you're basically saying that it's okay to make poor financial decisions because, if you do, you'll just get bailed out. It would also be a huge fuck you to those who already paid for their degrees or paid off their loans in full.
If you want to get rid of your debt, you shouldn't be allowed to benefit from the degree you didn't pay for. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:50 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat nah, i think we should write the debt down to something they can reasonably afford to pay. this way we're not fucking our economy so much and they aren't getting off scott free.
those who have already paid off their loans obviously didn't have this economy to deal with. in case you haven't noticed unemployment is twice as high as it was 2 years ago and new grads are bearing the brunt of it. ask twentynine about oci her year compared to oci this year.
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:53 AM Author: frisky tattoo Most people can reasonably afford to pay, unless they have like $300k+ in loans or something. I'm sorry, but someone needs to be held accountable. If you don't want to pay, fine, you don't have to, but give up your degree. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977170) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:54 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat no, a lot of people cannot reasonably afford to pay. i think you don't understand ITE.
i bet you a lot would give up the degree, but i oppose that because of the detriment to society that you aren't giving due consideration to. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:08 AM Author: frisky tattoo Can't have it both ways. Sorry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977232) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:12 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat it's not up to you. your position's ridiculous. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977251) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:15 AM Author: frisky tattoo My position is based on the fact that no one forced you, or anyone else, to take out massive loans to attend a certain school. Taking out $200k to attend Grinnell College and graduate with a degree in English is no fault but the person's own.
There are tons of in-state schools that are available at an extremely low cost. If you prefer to go elsewhere and pay up, it's on you. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:17 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat how is that the best economic decision? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977266) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:18 AM Author: frisky tattoo People could easily attend college or grad school in-state, get a degree, and come out with little to no debt. It's not my fault they're now saddled with extreme loans; loans that didn't have to be extreme.
Stop looking to get bailed out. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:19 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat how does your position make the most economic sense? you haven't answered that question. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977280) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:22 AM Author: frisky tattoo I just told you above that if students want a bailout, get rid of the interest, but the principle should remain. If they feel like they can't pay, extend the principle out over 35-40 years, but definitely do not just allow people to take out massive loans, get a degree, decide they don't want to pay or can't pay, keep the degree, profit from the degree, and wipe their hands clean of any expense related to the degree. The economy won't be in the shitter for 40 years; they'll eventually be able to pay. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977312) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:23 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat you should've thought about that years ago before you sat by and allowed lenders to put taxpayers on the hook for other peoples' debt. but you didn't and now you have to pay for it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977321) |
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Date: September 8th, 2010 6:16 AM Author: Aquamarine big puppy sans UC Irvine's first year class, can you name an affordable state law school in CA? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15993697) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:51 AM Author: Gold sandwich This would work fine for a lot of professional jobs were the degree is necessary for the license. I'm confused on how this will work for a lot of undergraduate degrees.
Should the borrower be banned from putting on their resume that they even attended the University?
I'm sure employers would ask what you were between 18-22. Since degrees are just about signaling, I doubt they will care if you tell them the degree was revoked. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:52 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat regardless of whether you want to punish the borrower (even more than you would making them pay off some of the debt) it's not worth the productivity costs to society of preventing them from using skills they spent year building. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977169) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:54 AM Author: frisky tattoo Most jobs require a college degree. If yours was revoked, you technically aren't qualified for the job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977182) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:46 PM Author: useless high-end double fault turdskin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977922) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:42 AM Author: buff space Look, I agree, and I think we already have too many college grads emerging this year who are grossly unqualified because we've lowered our standards to allow people to coast through.
But the logic of the bailout was that it frees up investment. In the case of banks, save them because they're the only massive lenders in the game, whom we rely on to fund any expansion in business. Sure, some shitty banks will not have to pay for their bad decisions and we risk creating a precedent fueling moral hazard going forward, but the bailout can yield returns.
I think this isn't an unreasonable comparison. Do a one-time intervention so we don't have a lost generation. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:44 AM Author: frisky tattoo Fine, do away with the interest, but not the principle. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977129) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:53 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat no, even just the principle is too much (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977174) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:12 AM Author: frisky tattoo You clearly have a shitload of loans and no job. Correct? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977252) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:13 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977255) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 3:06 PM Author: crystalline dog poop I see what ya did here bro, 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978840) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:43 AM Author: Gold sandwich Most people made bad decisions because of poor public policy. People don't make decisions in a vacuum, and thus it is fair to say society itself is partly to blame. If you change public policy the % of people who make bad decisions will decrease.
Fine to oppose a bailout (though I think foolish because you're accepting worse economic growth) but it is clear at this point that student loan policies must be changed if you want to avoid the incoming waves of students from making the same poor decisions. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:07 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea You can still get college. Paid for on the GI bill you fucking coward. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977224) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:11 AM Author: buff space I understand. That's not the point of my post, though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977248) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:16 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea This is still an option for anyone willing to risk their lives in defense of our country. Short of that, you want to go to college at an uber prestige school and get that useful liberal arts degree, go for it. But don't expect any sympathy or money from hard working tax payers. Student loan paupers made their own bed with bad decisions. Tough luck baby. Bad decisions have consequences. Probably the best lesson any one of them learned through college. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977263) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:17 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat if you care about tax payers you should be protesting the lenders putting them on the hook in the first place. why should i back some random person's debt so some lender can make a risk free loan? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977270) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:20 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea I would love to get rid of the government guarantees. But all these beats would then squawk about "poor me, I can't go to Brown". Fuck that. Go to state U if you can't afford the Ivy league. Or take out massive debt. I don't care, but don't come crying me asking for loan forgiveness when your brilliant plan to spend a fortune on a piece of paper blows up in your face. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977289) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:21 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat no, you haven't answered the question. you need to be protesting banks putting taxpayers on the hook.
also, the very reason they can't afford brown is because of the unlimited loan money. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:22 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea The only reason it's unlimited is because it's non dischargeable and government backed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977314) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:24 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat and that's what you've failed to hold the government accountable for. why weren't you protesting this years ago before lenders put you on the hook for about a trillion in student loan debt? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977322) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:29 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea I've been pissing into the wind on the one forever dude. When the US policy has been to get everyone a house and a four year degree a lot of stupid policy decisions get made. Priorities in this country are completely fucked. Not everyone needs a degree, not everyone needs a house. Yet even after this BS blew up in our face and tanked the economy, did the government pivot and reconsider it's course? Nope, they doubled down.
Thanks Obama. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:32 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat freddie and fannie were privately owned when the housing crisis started. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977381) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:34 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea Don't be facetious...this whole thing started with the government declaring a national priority to put everyone in a home. A policy supported and backed by both parties. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977397) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:35 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat explain (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977407) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:37 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea No. Read the WSJ or FT and educate yourself. Plenty of good books on this now as well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977418) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:03 PM Author: racy juggernaut for the first time in this thread, you're right. although it was really the lack of regulation of MBS/CDO that allowed the problem to get so huge. it did at least start with the gov't encouraging home ownership though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977599) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:05 PM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat still seems so many degrees away from where it actually blew up, which was with mbs/cdos and privately owned freddie and fannie corp. that's pretty far removed from a world where freddie and fannie were govt owned and banks had a lot more skin in the game on their housing loans. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977617) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:25 PM Author: racy juggernaut to say fannie/freddie were privately owned is not exactly right though. they were gov't sponsored private entities (just like the entities that are the guarantors on student loan debt), still subject to gov't oversight and regulation.
i agree that allowing the banks to originate and sell immediately to a seemingly unlimited demand because of MBS/CDO's was the main problem. but if mortgages weren't encouraged in the 70's and 80's, and lending standards not relaxed for sub prime borrowers at the gov't's request, it may never have taken off. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:13 PM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea Much more importantly, Fannie and Freddie made the whole thing possible to begin with. Banks wouldn't have made risk loans if they didn't know they could sell them off to Fannie and Freddie, Fannie and Freddie lowered standards for the loans they would purchase to the point where it was all a fucking shell game.
There are a lot of bad actors, but if you want to know what made the whole fucking mess possible - it was this. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:40 AM Author: Passionate Crusty Death Wish Electric Furnace I can't believe there r poasters who r legitimately against making student loans dischargable. This needs to happen at a minimum.
You claim to believe in the free market and letting the "borrower pay" and yet you allow for a completely unrealistic, bizzaro-land market for the lender, where they have no incentive to investigate the soundness of the loan and where federal loans r 100% guaranteed by the government. this is just batshit crazy and horrifically bad policy. any conservotard w/ half a brain in his head should be against this.
the FTC should also be brought into investigate the blatantly deceptive marketing practices of universities and graduate schools. some of the poasters claim that "anyone can find the REAL numbers on the INTERNETS!" - really? where? xo? there is no nonbiased depository of stats for this - the bloodsucking vampires of higher education wouldn't have it.
also, we have to remember that we are dealing with 17/18 yr olds who are bombarded by "go to college/get educated/the higher the rank, the bigger the bank" bullshit their entire lives - we should recognize their vulnerability.
grad students should in theory be more sophisticated but this doesn't change the fact that employment stats are cooked and that banks have no incentive not to lend to the avg cooley grad since there's no potential for bankruptcy. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:43 AM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat some of the fraud that preceded the first great depression wasn't covered by any particular precedent at the time. that seems to be the case this time. the fraud and abuse is real, but it's a little different than what's been punished in the past. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977462) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:47 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea What kind of interest rate will 18 year old liberal arts majors be charged on dischargeable unsecured debt? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977491) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:00 PM Author: Passionate Crusty Death Wish Electric Furnace guess what douche - that's the whole point! lenders will give better rates for better schools/majors based on the likelihood of finding a job post-grad (and the likely salary).
faggots who want to pay 200K to get a queer studies degree from a ttt will have to think long and hard about doing it when they see the banks offer (assuming the bank even makes an offer - which is very unlikely). this is how the market is supposed to work. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:20 PM Author: Burgundy galvanic athletic conference They just won't get the loans in the first place. Exactly as it should be. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978137) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:51 AM Author: racy juggernaut titmfcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977514) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:19 PM Author: Burgundy galvanic athletic conference You started out OK saying we should allow bankruptcy. But the rest of your screed is shit, pure shit.
People should of course be allowed to file bankruptcy. But the upshot of this is that all those people just wouldn't get loans in the first place. Also, people who file bankruptcy should get nothing discharged unless they really need it, and in any case get put on payment plans where they pay what they can, and their credit should be ruined nearly forever, and employers may choose not to hire them because of bad credit. This is how it should be. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:49 AM Author: racy juggernaut Guy Noir is missing the point: most students are encouraged and told to take on massive debt at unfavorable rates to enrich universities at way above market tuition rates. the parents don't understand what's going on, the students don't understand what's going on, and the government says it's ok.
Obama said "everyone should have at least 1 year of college." what the fuck do you do with 1 year of college? and that year cost $20k, even at many State U. the government encourages *everyone* to go to college, and calls loans "aid", and fixes the interest rates at 8% and makes the debt nondischargeable.
so now you have universities charging $40k / yr. for undergrad, hiring more and more faculty to improve their student / faculty ratio, spending millions on research facilities to game the rankings, none of which improves the education, and 17 year olds making one of the biggest financial decisions in their life without a clue. the parents don't fucking know any better either, because when they went to college you couldn't get a degree in fashion design and it cost $10k, not $150k (even at the best schools).
and GradPLUS is WAY worse.
it's exactly like the housing bubble: let's let uninformed people make poor financial decisions with large amounts of money they would never in any other situation qualify to borrow, which then drives up prices to unsustainable levels, all with the government's blessing.
Apollo Group (Univ. of Phoenix) is an almost $7 billion public company. tuition rates across the country have almost doubled since the mid 90's. there is almost $1 trillion in outstanding student loan debt, more than the amount of outstanding consumer debt. over 60% of that debt is currently either in deferment, forbearance or default. if you can read those numbers and still hold the position that nothing should be changed, you're a dumb.
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:53 AM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea The change I would make is to make drop the government backing of then loans. Of course, none of you would ever be able to take out a student loan at reasonable interest rates again. But loan forgiveness...no fucking way. Adults making bad decisions suffer consequences. Moral hazard to say, wow, that sucks, well, we can look the other way this time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977525) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 11:57 AM Author: racy juggernaut changing that now doesn't get rid of the $1 trillion in outstanding student loan debt, the majority of which has yet to enter repayment.
and what about allowing loans to be discharged in bankruptcy? *every* other type of debt, even debt incurred for necessary medical expenses, is dischargeable.
also, no moral hazard when most people who entered into the contract didn't understand the terms in the first place. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:04 PM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea The moral hazard is precisely in letting people skate because "they didn't understand the terms". Grow the fuck up and be responsible for your actions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977604) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:07 PM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat there really shouldn't be any debt that is personally nondischargable. that is the premise underlying bankruptcy law right? i don't see what is so special about student loans. yah, the interest rate would be high on some degrees, but that just means those loans shouldn't be made in the first place, not that the debt should be fed guaranteed and nondischargable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977627) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:26 PM Author: racy juggernaut plus, guaranteeing the loan isn't the only form of subsidizing the gov't could use. they could still allow the loans to be dischargeable, and just pay a portion of the interest, or pay an origination bonus, or...? there's all kinds of ways that don't fuck over the borrower so much. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977802) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:36 PM Author: Burgundy galvanic athletic conference Allow bankruptcy, free market for higher education, higher ed spending nationwide contracts 70%, people who file BK are still forced to pay as much as they can for a time, get their credit fucked and the possibility of employers turning them down for bad credit.
That's exactly how it should go. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:14 PM Author: racy juggernaut apparently you don't understand the term "moral hazard". also, good job avoiding my other two points. how do you go about solving the $1 trillion problem that already exists? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977685) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:45 PM Author: up-to-no-good ape toilet seat even when, according to you, employment stats are faked?
Date: April 18th, 2010 1:03 PM Author: Guy Noir
He's right - some of those numbers are obviously just faked.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1286238&forum_id=2/#14745741)
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:07 PM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea Yes - even when. People are free to do their own thinking and research and to the best of my knowledge, none of the loan documents contain any covenant of any kind of guarantee of employment with whatever degree is being pursued. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978065) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 3:11 PM Author: crystalline dog poop I was going to mention a number of your points, but well done sir--I shall subscribe to your newsletter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978876) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 6:50 PM Author: racy juggernaut ty. this is an issue i'm passionate about (probably like the only one). i'm 100% convinced there's a higher ed bubble, and it's fucking our generation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15980830) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:02 PM Author: mind-boggling area Make government backed student loans interest free and only applicable to a public school education. Make them non dischargeable.
Go to private school, have to get private loans w/ interest that are dischargeable.
Win fucking Win. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:11 PM Author: mind-boggling area (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977653) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:15 PM Author: racy juggernaut i could go for this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977694) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:18 PM Author: mind-boggling area why isn't my genius shit getting more attention (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977733) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:20 PM Author: Vibrant scourge upon the earth weed whacker Why do you want UC-Irvine to jack up its tuition even more? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977761) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:04 PM Author: mind-boggling area Under my plan Govt would restrict tuition hikes at public institutions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978041) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:35 PM Author: Zippy mustard heaven Why are we even talking about this? They won't even pay for us to just get old and do nothing all day, why would they do this for us? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977844) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:39 PM Author: razzle-dazzle people who are hurt immigrant for the future: bring in strict price controls and only allow the top 15-20% of high school leavers go to university. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15977864) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:29 PM Author: Burgundy galvanic athletic conference this is the direction that "liberal" policies would take us, but its retarded. no social mobility. lots of people with potential don't apply themselves in high school and then do so later. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978214) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:52 PM Author: razzle-dazzle people who are hurt immigrant there has to be a limit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978396) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:04 PM Author: Burgundy galvanic athletic conference free market (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15982575) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:18 PM Author: curious faggot firefighter lol everyone in this thread is a poor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978114) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:26 PM Author: Spectacular Orchestra Pit Another way for Obama to ruin the country. To hell with personal responsibility and frugality. Fucking asshole liberals. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978183) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:31 PM Author: Burgundy galvanic athletic conference cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978230) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:05 PM Author: curious faggot firefighter [bootstraps loving bitchfaggot] (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978471) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:11 PM Author: Spectacular Orchestra Pit yea man the people who built this country all lived on welfare for decades. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978506) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:08 PM Author: Burgundy galvanic athletic conference (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15982621) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:43 PM Author: Spruce school cafeteria police squad I would fucking campaign for him if he was serious about doing this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15982350) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:35 PM Author: Bipolar fuchsia voyeur travel guidebook interesting idea from berkeley prof in nyt:
Public universities should be free; in return, graduates would then be required to pay back 10 percent of their first 10 years of full-time income. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:55 PM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea *works part-time as a lifeguard for ten years* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978412) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:57 PM Author: Gold sandwich libertarian comedy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978424) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:58 PM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea people respond to incentives (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978431) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:01 PM Author: Gold sandwich LMAO if you think any significant portion of the population will work part time for a decade as a lifeguard. Libertarians really don't understand how human beings live their lives. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978451) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:06 PM Author: Jet-lagged chapel marketing idea I'm not even close to a libertarian (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978475) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:55 PM Author: Bipolar fuchsia voyeur travel guidebook yeah this is retarded. given the option of working part time at 15k per year and full time at 40k, i would guess 75% would go full time. im speculating, but like you said, people respond to incentives. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15978762) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 2:10 PM Author: Spectacular Orchestra Pit the average college grad probably makes somewhere around $32k their first year out of college. 10 yrs of income will likely be around $380k on average, so you're suggesting the average public college is worth $38k adjusted for inflation at 0%.
this seems reasonable. as long as it only covers tuition and books, and has zero impact to living costs.
also would need to be changed around the edges where most xo'ers are. so the "best" public schools don't discourage the best students from attending, somehow deal with professional / graduate school education, etc. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:09 PM Author: indigo slippery love of her life stain He's never defaulted on his loans, but owes more now than he did in 1998. I don't understand.
FWIW, forgive those bitches, but I am confused. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:10 PM Author: irradiated principal's office Are you talking about Obama? Holy shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15982662) |
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Date: September 7th, 2010 1:30 AM Author: racy juggernaut income sensitive repayment, i'm guessing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1415595&forum_id=2#15985090) |