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Probably getting fired from BIGLAW, incident described herein
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:05 AM Author: wonderful tattoo We had an opposition to a motion due on Monday at noon. The opposition had been assigned to a very senior associate, who asked another junior associate and I to do some research into the matter as well as another opposition last Wednesday. I did some research into the matter, reported on it, and then was implicitly asked to draft the opposition. I drafted the opposition on Thursday and Friday morning, and I sent it off to the senior associate in the early afternoon on Friday, which is when he had asked for it.
The senior associate looked it over and made a few changes but thought it looked basically ok. He sent it off to some partners and another associate for review. I went home for the weekend, and just after I left work I got an email from a mid-level associate who mentioned that he thought the opposition could use some more case support in certain areas. I checked my email on Sunday around 6 PM, and I noticed the email from the mid-level but figured it wasn't critical at that time and was more a suggestion that could be dealt with on Monday morning. There were no other emails at that time. Thinking things are ok and being rather tired, I don't check my Blackberry later that evening.
At 7:30 PM the managing partner sends an email to me CC-ing the others about various things he thought the motion needed. The senior associate apparently freaks out and tries calling my cell phone at 9, which happened to be in a place I couldn't hear it. He tries calling me again at 6:30 AM, but I don't get that call either. Apparently he also called a couple of other associates that night and in the morning, and he got one of them to come in early to help out. I roll in to work at 9, and I call up the senior associate and offer to help--he's pissed, but he has me look up some things. The opposition gets filed with some minor changes from the version on Friday.
The managing partner finds out about the situation, probably from the senior associate, and he emails me saying that not being in contact is unacceptable. I respond saying that I checked it at 6 on Sunday and thought things were ok but was unavailable after that until "normal business hours" when I was in the office helping out.
So I get a call from him today, and he bitches about my unavailability. He talks about how he was talking to a client at 11-1 some night, and he lectures me on how we need to always be available. My use of the phrase "normal business hours" ticked him off (not entirely unintentionally), and he said it sounded like I just didn't want to be part of the team. I was noncommittal and said that I thought the opposition seemed basically ok as of 6 on Sunday. At the end I got the distinct impression that he was ready to get rid of me.
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:08 AM Author: Snowy base Welcome to biglaw man.
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:11 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Wow, I know, that's just how it is in BIGLAW. Partners are basically nuts everywhere. This is why my username is biglawserf. I'm ready to get out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082150) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:13 AM Author: Snowy base I dont mind it when the partner is in the trenches with me, which they typically are. If they sacrifice everything for the job, I'm ok with them asking me to do the same. It just isn't something I'm likely to do longterm, unlike them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082165) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:12 AM Author: Flushed Hospital Boistinker please be flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082158) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:13 AM Author: Snowy base Nah. Actually happened dooder. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082167) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:31 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Uh, no. You have a cell phone and a blackberry for a reason. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083200) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:18 AM Author: boyish hot theatre I applaud your badassness. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082222) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:21 AM Author: deep concupiscible area sneaky criminal You didn't learn as a summer that you are supposed to constantly check your blackberry even on weekends? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082254) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:25 AM Author: wonderful tattoo It's more that I think the level of Blackberry checking which seems to be expected is ridiculous. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082296) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:31 AM Author: Alcoholic Diverse Electric Furnace Walk around with those earplants like the cool kids do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082344) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:52 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Uh, wut? What on earth makes you think you're entitled to multiples of what the average person makes for pushing papers? You don't see how maybe keeping your blackberry on you and responding when it buzzes isn't too much? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083270) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:54 AM Author: Mischievous pea-brained house clown 1) i call flame. what briefs are due at noon?
2) you're an absolute moron if you thought you could start adding cases to a brief a couple hours before it was due |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:59 AM Author: wonderful tattoo 1) Local counsel had to deal with it after us.
2) If you're referring to the mid-level's suggestions, that could easily have been done in the morning. I never even saw that the partner wanted more as well until I got in at 9. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:03 AM Author: Vibrant Temple Ceo Again, if you had bothered to check your email anytime between Friday and 6 PM on Sunday, you would have seen the midlevel's suggestions, cluing you in that your work was not done and to be on the lookout for the partner's email on Sunday evening.
You keep acting like somehow you shouldn't be held responsible for failing to respond because it's not your fault you didn't receive their e-mails earlier. It's ONLY your fault, hth. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:07 AM Author: Mischievous pea-brained house clown you don't need to be clued in that the work is not done. if you submit something to someone, it's assumed that people will have questions and want revisions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082688) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:45 AM Author: maroon domesticated round eye pit "I went home for the weekend, and just after I left work I got an email from a mid-level associate who mentioned that he thought the opposition could use some more case support in certain areas. I checked my email on Sunday around 6 PM, and I noticed the email from the mid-level but figured it wasn't critical at that time and was more a suggestion that could be dealt with on Monday morning. There were no other emails at that time. Thinking things are ok and being rather tired, I don't check my Blackberry later that evening."
These 3 sentences pretty much sum up why you will be, and deserve to be, fired.
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:56 AM Author: big theater stage If you are so pressed about "normal business hours" then leave BIGLAW, find a government job or work at a think tank! Hours are from 9am-5pm, low stress, and you get to wear khakis and sandals to work. Casual Fridays included. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083294) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 11:37 PM Author: deranged field hairy legs it's sad that this is what humanity has come to, working around the clock. ridiculous. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12090345) |
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Date: October 16th, 2009 10:36 PM Author: orchid hateful trailer park This and the above posts are both right. It is kind of sad. At the same time, that's the job, and that's what you get paid $160,000 for. When people say "You don't like it, go work in some government job" there's this tone of disdain attached, as though there's something wrong with wanting to work at a human level. There's nothing wrong with wanting that at all, it's just not what one should expect from a big firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#13007801) |
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Date: October 17th, 2009 10:23 AM Author: Greedy university Subject: You know what's fucking stupid Two main points:
(1) No one explicitly told you to clear your weekend calendar because the few days before a brief filing can always lead to unexpected issues;
(2) That your knowledge, as a junior member of this trial team, was so fucking important that it had to be you and only you to make these non-substantial changes. I mean, it would take a midlevel or senior 30-45 minutes to add cases. Which would be the amount of time they probably spent trying to track you down.
The first is an issue of shitty management and your lack of experience and is the source of 80 percent of the fuck ups I witnessed working in two big firms.
The second is an issue of shitty management and ass covering. I'm guessing your client's legal footing isn't too good and the partner and more senior associates plan on using you as the reason why the brief is going to be a fail to either the client or (most likely) to the share/capital partner who is the attorney who brought this client to the firm.
Which takes me back to point one. The reason why there's such shitty management among lower level senior types is that they're trying to protect their fiefdoms. The best way to do this is to feed the young to the wolves early and often. They rely on young attorneys not knowing what's expected of them as the basis for a fuck up (which it usually is) but they will always deny any responsibility in fucking training junior associates or providing them clear guidance to govern their work product--this is the real reason why fuck ups occur. |
Date: June 25th, 2009 2:08 AM Author: Misanthropic doobsian office legend by the 3rd paragraph i knew exactly what the fuck was going on and, empathetic terror welling within me, i prayed for this lengthy screed to end with "...to settle my throne as the Prince of Bel Air" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082103) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:12 AM Author: violent immigrant locus To sit on my throne. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082161) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:19 AM Author: Grizzly Antidepressant Drug lol, he's been saying "settle" for years (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082231) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 10:33 AM Author: pale parlor patrolman HAHAHAHAHA... settle.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083455) |
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Date: October 17th, 2009 10:11 AM Author: Flatulent private investor mood never forget (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#13010090) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:10 AM Author: Bull headed gas station internal respiration BIGLAW sounds horrible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082138) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:12 AM Author: Snowy base The work is fine, it's the people that are often intolerable. Anyone who chooses a firm for prestige is an idiot if they want to take a crack at biglaw long term. Focus on the people and their reps in the industry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082157) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:13 AM Author: Bull headed gas station internal respiration even if the work is fine, I don't want to be dealing with it on a fucking Sunday night. Life is too short. And like you say, the people sound like assholes too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082171) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:16 AM Author: Snowy base There is no concept of personal time in biglaw. All nighters on the weekend are uncommon, but not unheard of. The greatest sin is not being available. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082203) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:17 AM Author: Bull headed gas station internal respiration fuck that (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082215) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:19 AM Author: Tan sinister national Not being available when you should obviously be available. E.g., when you're primarily responsible for filing something on Monday. You don't have to be available on Sunday when you have no reason to believe there's anything important going on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082234) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:23 AM Author: wonderful tattoo You know, if the partner had sent his email earlier in the day on Sunday (preferably by 4) I would have spent the few hours that evening to do it. As it was, he was just too late. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082275) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:49 AM Author: Vibrant Temple Ceo Even though you didn't CHECK your email till 6 on Sunday, the email from the midlevel was sent on Friday. You just didn't receive it till Sunday because you "went home for the weekend." If you had checked it on Friday, you would have been clued in that it was not a done deal, and that you should at the very least be on the lookout for more communication over the weekend, if not actively responding to the midlevel. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082546) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:19 AM Author: Snowy base Not for everyone. Some interesting opportunities come out of it though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082236) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:22 AM Author: Bull headed gas station internal respiration this is probably how I would treat it too: stay in for 2-3 years tops, then use it as a means to go into BIGFED, in house, or a less stressful boutique where I could make partner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082264) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:23 AM Author: Snowy base Yup. Just use the resources available to you to network a shit ton. It will make a big difference for moving on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082277) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:29 AM Author: hairraiser lilac therapy funny you say that since almost every post from you make you seem like an arrogant, entitled prick. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082330) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:36 AM Author: Bull headed gas station internal respiration learn to write, faggot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082408) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:47 AM Author: hairraiser lilac therapy learn to read, aspie. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082527) |
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Date: October 16th, 2009 10:31 PM Author: big-titted stage This is entirely correct. Word to the wise. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#13007723) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:14 AM Author: wonderful tattoo I'm miserable in it, and the work sucks too, at least in litigation. The whole litigation model is completely absurd. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082181) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:23 AM Author: Tan sinister national If this isn't flame, you probably have Asperger's or something. I do too. But dude--writing briefs is pretty much as good as it gets in BIGLAW. While it sucks that you have to wait for comments and edits from partners--who often are less smart than you and make the brief worse--that's just something normal people deal with. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082274) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:29 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Writing briefs is not really my cup of tea. I'm not sure work on the non-litigation side is necessarily better, but I just don't enjoy the lit work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082325) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:08 PM Author: Excitant Juggernaut race? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084184) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:23 AM Author: Bull headed gas station internal respiration I think the model is much different and more cost effective in European legal systems. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082278) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:11 AM Author: filthy point haunted graveyard I would post my "why I am getting fired from BIGLAW" story, but I would be outed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082145) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:22 AM Author: glittery cumskin does it involve redskins? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082268) |
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Date: October 17th, 2009 11:45 AM Author: submissive vivacious box office underrated (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#13010521) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:33 AM Author: Olive Native Persian Very insightful. Thanks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082381) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:15 AM Author: Tan sinister national If you're responsible for writing a brief, and it has to be filed on Monday, and you send it around on Friday, you're an idiot if you think you have the weekend free. You don't have to pull all nighters, but you obviously have to be responsive over the weekend in this situation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082195) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:18 AM Author: wonderful tattoo As far as I'm concerned, it was ready to file on Friday. You apparently like being exploited like this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082217) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:20 AM Author: Tan sinister national LOL. Well, you sound like an even more aggressive version of me. We'll see where we end up... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082242) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:22 AM Author: Snowy base As the junior, no one gives a shit about what your take on the issue was. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082261) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:30 AM Author: deep concupiscible area sneaky criminal I don't have much sympathy for you dude. You made a pretty bush league mistake if you thought your job was over when you, as a junior associate, were satisfied with your own work product. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082336) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:56 AM Author: Mischievous pea-brained house clown a brief is never "ready to file" upon completion of a rough draft by a junior associate. christ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082599) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:00 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Totally incorrect, but it helps the partners legitimize their existence. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082627) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:08 AM Author: Mischievous pea-brained house clown sounds like there are too many cooks in the kitchen on this brief. but any piece of writing that isn't read by more than one person isn't ideal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082704) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:34 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife You think this is exploitation? Wait until you have to get a low paying job where they give you weekend work AND pay you a fraction of what you're currently earning. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083211) |
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Date: June 28th, 2009 2:01 PM Author: khaki stage dingle berry tcr. i know people who work biglaw hours in a different industry, are equally slaves to the blackberry, and make 60-70K (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12106520) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:18 AM Author: Snowy base True. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082220) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:36 PM Author: lascivious garrison this is true. If I knew that something had to go out on Monday morning, and I sent it to a partner on Friday afternoon, I would never ever think that I can just blow it off until Monday morning.
Who doesn't check their blackberry all weekend? I check mine a couple times each weekend day, even if nothing is going on. Usually nothing is, but its a small price to pay for being paid $200k 4 years out of law school. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:16 AM Author: Grizzly Antidepressant Drug Wow doode, why didn't you just apologetically suck it up and admit you were at fault? I'm not saying you are at fault, but I would just always maintain that attitude especially ITE. Do you have exit options? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082206) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:19 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Sucking up legitimizes this kind of behavior from partners. I've had enough of this exploitation. No exit options, but I don't care right now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082237) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:22 AM Author: Snowy base It's easy to say this until you're looking at the streets. If you've developed a network you could tap, then go for it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082267) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:27 AM Author: heady site If you don't care - keep on doing what you are doing.
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:51 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife I don't think you have any clue as to what exploitation is, but I think you might pretty soon. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083266) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 11:08 PM Author: emerald talented space mad-dog skullcap I see that you are...familiar with the concept (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12090028) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:38 PM Author: lascivious garrison dude, it was legitimate behavior. I would be pissed at you too if someone sent something out on Friday when it was due on Monday and then proceeded to disappear for two days.
Have you ever had a job? |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:43 AM Author: arousing ladyboy But he was at fault. I mean, you're not saying it, but it's still true. He has what we in the industry call "sense of entitlement". He took the job, he took the money, and now he is bitching because he has to do the job. It's ridiculous. If he thinks this is "exploitation," he is welcome to get a job where it doesn't happen, and the fair market salary that comes with that job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083246) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 11:51 AM Author: Insecure school cafeteria lol @ "we in the industry." Yes it's a very trade specific term (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084023) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:45 PM Author: Aphrodisiac International Law Enforcement Agency Home titclol. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084424) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 11:28 PM Author: histrionic corner incel A fleshlight is less selfabsorbed and more insightful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12090264) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:55 PM Author: Sapphire stimulating pocket flask There is no way he isn't at fault. The brief had to be ready to leave the office on Monday. He left work after submitting it on Friday, and didn't check in with anyone all weekend. He even ignored an email that was sent to him on Friday. He should have checked it before Sunday, but even when he finally got it, he ignored it. At a minimum, upon receiving the email he should have responded that he would make the changes on Monday and offer to come in early. There was an actual deadline here. We're attorneys. Sometimes we have to give a little and work during non office hours when there is a deadline. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084496) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:21 AM Author: Alcoholic Diverse Electric Furnace How'd the senior associate play that one off so well? Hand off an important assignment to a lower associate, approve it, and then bitch at him to the partner when things go wrong? LOL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082253) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:25 AM Author: Snowy base It probably wasn't that important, otherwise the senior would be up shit creek.
That said, throwing juniors under the bus is pretty common. Most partners have longstanding relationships with their seniors and prefer to not get in confrontations with them. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:27 AM Author: Alcoholic Diverse Electric Furnace To create the illusion that partnership is possible? Shrewd, lulz. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082308) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:31 AM Author: Snowy base Na, it's just that losing seniors who are integral to cases is a giant fucking inconvenience. The ideal set up is to have all the cases the senior is on be winding down or have the senior be slowly phased out (since his rate is now "too high") right when he comes up for partnership. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082345) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:33 AM Author: Alcoholic Diverse Electric Furnace Awesome. So you see your grave being dug when suspiciously nobody gives you long term work anymore. BIGLAW sounds wonderful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082382) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:34 AM Author: Snowy base If you were smart, you made yourself integral to the client, which preempts this move by the partner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082393) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:35 AM Author: Alcoholic Diverse Electric Furnace By what, fucking his daughter? Everyone is a disposable cog in the machine. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082399) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:37 AM Author: Snowy base You dramaticly underestimate the power of personal relationships in the biglaw structure. If you've become friends with in house counsel, they will specificly request you be staffed on their matters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082424) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:38 AM Author: Alcoholic Diverse Electric Furnace Oh shit. So in some cases are there senior associates with more power than partners if say they get on the good side of a Fortune 10 client in house counsel? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082440) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:39 AM Author: Useless property generalized bond lol at how you think biglaw is all about doing business with prestigious "Fortune 10" corps (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082454) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:40 AM Author: Alcoholic Diverse Electric Furnace Dat's where the $$$ is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082462) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:46 AM Author: Snowy base Often the relationships are institutional to the firm, so no one really has a lot of power with respect to a major client. The client asks for certain attorneys, and the firm makes them available.
If the partner solely controls the relationship, he'll still be loathe to refuse to staff an associate if the counsel requests it. Also, senior associates are often superior repositories of institutional knowledge since they're familiar with the details of the case on a level most partners aren't.
To answer your question: probably not more power than a partner, but a partner is unlikely to piss of an important client unless he truly hates you. |
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Date: July 3rd, 2009 5:54 PM Author: Federal bawdyhouse Assuming the associate did good enough work and had a decent personality such that the client's request was not totally off the wall, what would make the partner hate the associate that much? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12151706) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:40 PM Author: lascivious garrison he didn't throw him under the bus. this guy screwed up....this isn't a 9-5 job sometimes...that is why they pay you twice as much as a 9-5 job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084396) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:31 AM Author: wonderful tattoo The senior associate is extremely well liked by the partners due to his devotion and 450+ hour months, for one thing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082351) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:33 AM Author: supple honey-headed boiling water is he married? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082375) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:34 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082390) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:36 AM Author: supple honey-headed boiling water guess he won't be soon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082412) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:34 AM Author: violent immigrant locus 5400 hrs/yr is always nice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082387) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:36 AM Author: wonderful tattoo He also billed 1000 hours in three months recently. Obviously he doesn't keep up that pace all year, but he could be at 3000/yr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082411) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:41 AM Author: violent immigrant locus That is still billing 80+ hrs/wk. Assuming a conservative estimate of billing efficiency of 10%, that would put him at 92 hrs/wk. Sounds like bullshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082472) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:46 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Billing 11 hours a day for three months straight, with no days off, gets you to 1000 in three months. I think he actually did this and had at least one trial at that time. Obviously he's a huge workaholic.
The 450 hour month is 15 hours a day every day that month (during a trial month). Absurd, but he said that number himself recently in reference to the crazy hours of trial. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:48 AM Author: supple honey-headed boiling water how do people like this guy balance between work and family? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082539) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:50 AM Author: wonderful tattoo I have no idea. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082559) |
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Date: June 26th, 2009 12:58 AM Author: Talking church kitty They don't. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12091121) |
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Date: June 29th, 2009 9:31 AM Author: curious violent nibblets dysfunction Bingo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12113505) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:50 AM Author: violent immigrant locus I declared bullshit, but realized I know psychos capable of shit like that. Insane. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082554) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:53 AM Author: Tan sinister national I've seen it happen too many times to disbelieve it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082581) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:11 AM Author: Mischievous pea-brained house clown he's probably padding, but having a 15-hr time period where you're doing work while you're at trial is totally normal. he may work from 9am to midnight, but he's probably billing for time he spends on the shitter or eating lunch. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082722) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:33 AM Author: Tan sinister national After rereading your post, I've changed my mind, at least if your story states all the relevant facts.
The worst thing you did was not respond to the mid-level associate. You should have made some changes and asked the senior associate and him if it was better now.
I don't actually think you need to be responsive past 6pm on Sunday in this situation, unless you blew off the mid-level associate.
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:34 AM Author: Alcoholic Diverse Electric Furnace Mid level associates are punks and your enemy. The only people that matter are the senior that assigned the work and partners of course. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082394) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:36 AM Author: Tan sinister national I'm just trying to figure out what happened here. If the senior associate OKed the motion on Friday, and it's 6 pm on Sunday, I don't think you need to wait by the phone in anticipation of the partner's comments.
I work in a super-intense litigation department. Absent the mid-level's comments, there's no way in hell I'd be willing to redraft this motion Sunday night/Monday morning because some shithead partner didn't read it until Sunday night. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:40 AM Author: wonderful tattoo I think you're correct that doing that would not have resulted in such fallout. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082469) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:36 AM Author: frum disturbing chapel Too bad you didn't do a better job sniffing out the lifestyle firms at OCI. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082410) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:39 AM Author: heady site eh- I just got laid-off from one of those. . .wished I'd taken the heartless gig that hasn't had any layoffs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082451) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:40 AM Author: irradiated jewess set This is why I always check my email last thing before bed. You never know when some partner is going to be working odd hours and sending you emails. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082464) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:42 AM Author: Tan sinister national I'm willing to chat with partners about the case when I'm drunk at midnight. I'm not willing to redraft a motion, unless there's an obvious god-damn emergency. You have to set your limits; I think this is a reasonable one. Most partners are very reasonable, I've found. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082482) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:43 AM Author: irradiated jewess set Yes but you could have replied to his email and then come in early on the Monday morning to do it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082495) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:47 AM Author: supple honey-headed boiling water both of you please breifly describe your workday. what time do you get up, get to work, go home, hit the sack, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082530) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:50 AM Author: Tan sinister national Get up around 7, get to work around 8:30-9, leave around 6:30-7, go to bed around 12. That's about 8.2 billables a day = about 2,100 a year.
But things are very different when shit's going on, e.g., when you're in the summary judgment phase of a case. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:42 PM Author: lascivious garrison seriously. That is what people don't understand. This wasn't just an every day occurrence. Something was being filed on Monday morning. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084406) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:51 AM Author: irradiated jewess set Typical day with no urgent deadlines or court on - in at 9.30, out at about 8, asleep around 1am. If we're in court I would usually come in around 8 in case of last minute things that need to be done. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082564) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 2:48 AM Author: Tan sinister national That's the way I would have handled this actually (and the way I have handled this in practice). Write something like:
Thanks for your comments [Partner]. I will make these changes by 10am tomorrow morning and send a draft around for your review. Thanks.
Then do not check Blackberry. Set alarm for 6. Make changes. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:01 AM Author: supple honey-headed boiling water so what now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082636) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:04 AM Author: wonderful tattoo I'm pretty sure they'll be getting me some layoff/firing paperwork soon. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082657) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:05 AM Author: supple honey-headed boiling water man, this whole thing is insanity. please keep us posted. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082676) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:07 AM Author: Tan sinister national Nah, dude. Sounds like you're talented but not deferential. That's much better than being useless and deferential. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082694) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:14 AM Author: wonderful tattoo I'm fucked, but they might keep me around until the big trial soon.
There was a previous incident as well: http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=940918&mc=97&forum_id=2 |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:23 AM Author: Tan sinister national It's hard to gauge the situation. The partners tend to be more assertive and aggressive than the norm. And you tend to be a more assertive and aggressive associate than the norm. This could all be flame, but it's not surprising that a situation like this would arise. I would try to get some work from other partners if you insist on behaving like this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082777) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:29 AM Author: wonderful tattoo I'm being aggressive in a way that pisses off this important partner--it's not a good kind of aggressive for my job. Really I just don't fit in BIGLAW as a result of this kind of thing--I'm fundamentally incompatible with BIGLAW. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082802) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:43 AM Author: Vibrant Temple Ceo You don't seem like you'd fit in at any profession where you are hired at-will and have to answer to someone. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082842) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:44 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Probably true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082852) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 4:49 AM Author: Chestnut hissy fit jew Tenured professor. Although that requires 5+ years as a PhD student and possible postdoc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082962) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 6:09 AM Author: Vibrant Temple Ceo Eh, when I said "at will," I meant the part where employers can fire you at any time for any reason, whether "fair" or not. Tenure isn't at-will employment, even if the original hiring (as a lecturer, asst prof, etc.) may have been. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083021) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:43 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife What will you do when you get canned? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083247) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:39 AM Author: Grizzly Antidepressant Drug In your thread from February you said you had just took the bar, but you also stated, in response to an accusation of flame, that you were a lateral. Were you taking the bar in a new state?? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082831) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:44 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Of course. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082851) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 3:47 AM Author: Vigorous shivering mother gay wizard I admire your chutzpah. I would do something similar, but I'd more likely avoid a big firm in the first place. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12082859) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 6:15 AM Author: Salmon Mentally Impaired Azn Candlestick Maker they're not going to fire you, but i'd say you're now in the sort of situation where you're going to get flogged over every little thing for a while to see whether you really want your job. if you're not prepared to take it for a while, then may as well start cleaning out your desk. and jesus man, check your fucking phone next time - you knew what the deal was when you signed up. they were being cocks about it this time, but it there are situations where not being able to get in touch fucks over a lot of other people who have already paid more dues. take some responsibility and figure out what you want. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083025) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 8:37 AM Author: Azure theater When anything is due Monday, you are supposed to simply have your blackberry on you. Check every e-mail that comes in.
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:34 AM Author: gold tripping menage Get over yourself. Doctors get up in the middle of the night to help patients if called. Hell, priests get up in the middle of the night to help church members if called. Why the fuck do you think that in the middle of a pressing issue you can just check out for "normal business hours"? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083212) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:55 PM Author: motley splenetic spot Ha, subtle dig... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649576) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:35 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife They may not fire you tomorrow, but when it comes time to reduce headcount your name will be near the top of the list. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083218) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:38 AM Author: arousing ladyboy The phrase normal business hours ticked me off as I was reading the OP. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083226) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:42 AM Author: beady-eyed rigpig heaven Wouldn't you be happier not having to deal with nonsense like that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083243) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:47 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife What makes you think he has a big bank account/trust fund to fall back on like you do? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083253) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:47 AM Author: beady-eyed rigpig heaven Who cares? I imagine he would be happier bartending. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083254) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:49 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Aspies typically make bad bartenders. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083260) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:51 AM Author: beady-eyed rigpig heaven If he were the typical aspie xoxo'er I don't think there is any chance he would have let an assignment go by the wayside. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083269) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:53 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Most XOers are Aspies who don't get human relationships but get the basic economic basis of the job. I think he gets neither. That's not really a feather in his cap. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083282) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:54 AM Author: beady-eyed rigpig heaven I am sure there is another aspie friendly career path that is less soul crushing if he can live without preftige and 160k+/year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083285) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:57 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Not really. Most of them will either call you in the middle of the night or pay complete shit. My mom is in IT and gets calls in the middle of the night all the time and for considerably less cash. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083299) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:50 AM Author: clear comical doctorate sex offender TITCR. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083261) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:56 AM Author: Electric Wrinkle It sounds like multiple people are at fault here, mainly for miscommunication and bad time management. Either the mid-level or senior associate should have known whether the project was one that might require weekend work, and should have conveyed that fact to you before the Sunday PM freakout by the senior associate.
It's always a good idea to check your blackberry before you go to bed for last-minute random nonsense like this, but it's also the responsibility of the more senior associates on the team to alert the juniors that they may be "on call". You could have been out of pocket for a number of reasons. It's frustrating when you're trying to reach someone who's being nonresponsive, but if you didn't give them the heads-up to keep checking their blackberry regularly throughout the weekend, you run the risk of this happening. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 9:59 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Uh, what? At my firm it was expected to keep a blackberry and/or cell phone on you pretty much at all times. It wasn't expected that you had a "heads up" that you might be getting more work. Especially when something big was submitted by you on Friday and will be submitted to a client on Monday. And I can assure you that giving any response that references "normal business hours" to a managing partner is a sure way to end up on his shit list. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083304) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 10:11 AM Author: Electric Wrinkle It wasn't expected, but it was more or less a courtesy that most people followed whenever possible, especially when dealing with very junior associates who might not know what's expected of them in certain scenarios. The OP didn't get any emails pertaining to this project all weekend other than on Sunday evening at 7:30 PM, so he's not completely unreasonable in assuming that he can go to bed early. Not to mention the fact that the 7:30 PM email didn't rally the troops to get them in the office.
The "normal business hours" reference is appallingly stupid and the OP should have been better about checking his blackberry. I also think he should have played politics a bit more and been more apologetic to the partner. The OP made a mistake by not checking his blackberry for those three hours, but it's an understandable one that most of us can relate to. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 10:15 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife He got an email at 6pm that he decided was "non-critical" even though it was headed for the client the next day. Had he started doing the work necessary, he would have noticed the follow-up email requesting more work. But he didn't keep an eye on either his cell phone or BB the night before a major document was going out. And then, rather than being profusely apologetic he became defensive? This is so bad I wonder if its flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083376) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 10:21 AM Author: Electric Wrinkle We don't know what these emails said, or what expectations were of the deal team regarding this document. I don't know if they wanted both juniors, the mid-level associate, the senior associate and the partner in the office on a Sunday night working on this document.
The OP didn't get the email at 6 PM. He CHECKED HIS BLACKBERRY on Sunday at 6 PM and saw the email was sent sometime on Friday evening after he left work. I agree that he should have been more attentive to his blackberry over the weekend, but if, on a Sunday at 6 PM, you see you've got nothing (even if there's a document due out to the client some time on Monday), it's not entirely unreasonable to get a bit more lax about the blackberry checking. It's a mistake, but not an unreasonable one.
I also think he should have been much more apologetic to the partner. He also should have asked the mid-level if they could use his help over the weekend re: drafting (if only to cover his own ass).
It's his attitude and not his inattentiveness to the blackberry that's getting him in trouble. If he told the truth, he would come across as a hardworking associate that just needs to be reminded to check his blackberry. Now, he comes across as someone who isn't a team-player. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 11:46 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Not a deal, a brief that's about to go out. That's worse than some minor memo to a client. I can't imagine not keeping your blackberry on you over the weekend. I even further can't imagine not being apologetic if you somehow forgot. Basically, this is either flame or his reputation at the firm is irreparably damaged, not that this matters since he's obviously not going to be there in the long term. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083973) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:44 PM Author: lascivious garrison who doesn't check their BBerry at all for 2 days? That is the weirdest part. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084419) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 11:35 AM Author: Vibrant Temple Ceo Wrong. He got the first email pertaining to this project on Friday. He just didn't bother to check his BB to read it till Sunday evening:
"I went home for the weekend, and just after I left work I got an email from a mid-level associate who mentioned that he thought the opposition could use some more case support in certain areas. I checked my email on Sunday around 6 PM, and I noticed the email from the mid-level but figured it wasn't critical at that time and was more a suggestion that could be dealt with on Monday morning."
That's what makes this particularly appalling. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 11:39 AM Author: Electric Wrinkle If that's the correct reading, then the OP is being unreasonably delinquent in his blackberry checking. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083904) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:01 PM Author: Vibrant Temple Ceo It's the most reasonable (and actually more forgivable) reading. The alternative would be that a brief needed go out on Monday, he was AWARE of feedback to make changes as early as Friday, but he felt he could deal with it after he strolls in at 9 on Monday, as if he could just put on the finishing touches himself. He'd be completely dismissive and disrespectful to others who may be dependent on his work earlier, and arrogant to think his last minute revisions wouldn't also need to be revised. Meanwhile, he's completely incommunicado--he neither clarifies with anyone whether it's okay to wait till Monday to implement the changes nor stays within earshot of his phone, despite KNOWING that this is not a done deal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084126) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:36 PM Author: Navy Frozen Knife CR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084370) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 10:27 AM Author: irradiated jewess set Quoting "normal business hours" at a partner is asking to be fired. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083426) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 10:30 AM Author: Electric Wrinkle He should be more worried about this than about neglecting his blackberry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083444) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 10:36 AM Author: Sapphire stimulating pocket flask This never happened. Nobody would say that shit about "normal business hours." It's no shock that biglaw can be demanding on your time well beyond 9-6, M-F. We're to believe that you knew of a deadline, knew your work needed revision, and neglected to respond to any phone calls or emails, and that you think you were in the right because as of 6:00PM Sunday you erroneously believed you work was fine? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083467) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 10:50 AM Author: Razzmatazz dull rehab Yeah, I think it's flame. It's not that far from the truth for a few outliers though. A lot of people find it hard to strike the right balance. More often than not, if people fail to get any balance, they become the associates who get walked all over and will cancel personal plans at the drop of a hat to address minor shit. But I've encountered a few who get all hardassed at the other end and just refuse to check or respond to emails or refuse to do work after a certain time or whatever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083551) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 10:48 AM Author: Razzmatazz dull rehab You know, I'm a big advocate for standing up for yourself in a biglaw job, but if this isn't total flame you are in the wrong here. It is true that some partners will trample over any personal boundaries if you let them, but as people said above, to a certain extent your pay grade is a function of your availability. This isn't a situation where a partner e-mails you three times in a row on a saturday night freaking out and asking you to confirm that a hearing is still scheduled a week from next Friday, this is jeopardizing an actual court deadline.
At the very least this job requires you to communicate on things like this -- acknowledge receipt of the e-mail and communicate your plans on when you will finish -- and you didn't even do that here. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:45 PM Author: Sapphire stimulating pocket flask that's exactly why this has to be flame. nobody is this stupid. you can't completely ignore emails from work pertaining to a document that is time-sensitive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084426) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 10:56 AM Author: Out-of-control dashing public bath (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12083584) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:15 PM Author: Electric Wrinkle I'm surprised "GUESS RACE?" hasn't been posted yet. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084234) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:23 PM Author: onyx abode son of senegal bc only a white dude would act this entitled. hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084286) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:36 PM Author: Navy Frozen Knife I think you're right, actually. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084372) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:42 PM Author: Sapphire stimulating pocket flask yeah, except this never happened. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084405) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:17 PM Author: Navy Frozen Knife You're probably right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101947) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:48 PM Author: Chocolate useless brakes some you people are overreacting. if you were supervising juniors and called out of the blue on saturday, you should expect delays in getting a hold of them unless they knew or should have known work was coming over the weekend. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084439) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:57 PM Author: Sapphire stimulating pocket flask Email sent to him Friday night. There is no excuse for not checking until Sunday. He knew he had just submitted a document that had to go out on Monday. Also, when he finally got the email, he ignored it. That is completely unacceptable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084509) |
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Date: October 16th, 2009 10:38 PM Author: orchid hateful trailer park I agree - I'm better about responding to e-mails than this and I'm a student. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#13007811) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 12:57 PM Author: lascivious garrison he DEFINITELY should have known. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12084514) |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 11:06 PM Author: misunderstood fragrant twinkling uncleanness windowlicker Sorry, dude. I've got to add my voice to the masses here. This isn't a situation where you can blame this shit on irrational expectations of your superiors. There's simply no excuse for a.) not seeing the e-mail sent to you on Friday evening until Sunday night; and b.) seeing the e-mail on Sunday night and proceeding to ignore it until 9 a.m. on Monday. You'd be at fault for not even bothering to check your blackberry one time between 7 p.m. on Friday and 6 p.m. Sunday even if you weren't aware that there was Monday filing deadline for a project you were working on.
I'm about as big of a slacker as you'll find in Biglaw, but even I think you sound like a whining immature baby AND were in the wrong on this. You fucked up. |
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Date: June 25th, 2009 11:23 PM Author: Sienna crotch resort Even though im someone who believes that all biglaw partners are god awful people who are hardly human beings, you are totally at fault with this one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12090186) |
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Date: June 26th, 2009 8:44 AM Author: wonderful tattoo I really don't understand all the hostility going on in this thread. This thread wasn't really designed to get your sympathy or your condemnation, but I was hoping some of you would come to bitch about how horrid BIGLAW is. Really I'm not just cut out for BIGLAW, and I'm ok with that. It's no big deal.
You guys are on my level, and if the majority of associates were more like me, we'd all be treated better. The idea that I'm at fault is entirely a value judgment about how you think BIGLAW should be. Sure, given how BIGLAW is I knew or should have known that I would get fucked by this (I think it was a combination, and I want out anyway). That doesn't mean that BIGLAW or partners should be this way.
Why the hate? Why bother propping up and legitimizing the BIGLAW model when it's just taking advantage of you until you become partner or get spat out? |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 6:59 PM Author: wonderful tattoo Any more comments? No more fallout yet, but I'm expecting to get canned after the big trial. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101863) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:05 PM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Because I wouldn't have had a problem being in your situation, which I was in plenty of times. You know what I did? I worked Saturday night, and occasionally Sunday night too. I didn't love doing it but I realized it came with the territory. I did good work too, but of course, I chose corporate and got economypwn3d.
You're probably flame. If not, I just hope they'll give me your job which I'll happily do for significantly less cash. |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:14 PM Author: glassy stain idea he suggested and now you're unemployed so all that work didn't mean a goddamn thing. I think that's dude's point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101924) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:16 PM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Eh, I still wasn't billing enough because the work wasn't there. When it was I obviously jumped at it.
Is that his point? I thought his point was "omg, how dare they expect that I do this work in *MY* free time rather than during "normal business hours"? |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:20 PM Author: glassy stain idea he suggested well, I think his point is that the expectations in BigLaw are unreasonable and since there is minimal payoff for complying and being treated like a bitch, why give in to it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101962) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:22 PM Author: wonderful tattoo Agreed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101971) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:22 PM Author: amber address nothing described above is "unreasonable." dumbass decided he was done and didn't need to bother checking in until monday morning. partner will ream his ass. he had it coming. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101974) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:23 PM Author: glassy stain idea he suggested ok striver (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101981) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:24 PM Author: amber address ok shitbag. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101984) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:25 PM Author: glassy stain idea he suggested enjoy your tiny pink life. Someday you just might make partner and it'll be ALL worth it!!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101997) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:40 PM Author: amber address sry, not in biglaw. not going there either. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12102086) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:30 PM Author: Navy Frozen Knife I see your point - I could have been completely terrible and still gotten canned just the same - I suppose they would have said mean things about me on the way out instead of "its not your fault, its the economy," but I'm not sure that would make any real difference.
But that's kind of it - if you do what he does you will fail in any economy. If you put forth an effort, you may or may not get fucked by random shit. No one succeeds without trying though. |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:15 PM Author: wonderful tattoo Why should it "come with the territory"? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101932) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:17 PM Author: Navy Frozen Knife What exactly do you think you do that merits earning that much cash given that you push paper for a living? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101943) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:21 PM Author: wonderful tattoo Answer the question. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101968) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:25 PM Author: Navy Frozen Knife That was the answer. You took a job where the tradeoff is ownership of your free time for massive chunks of money. Now you, for some reason, seem to think you're being unfairly when you're made to earn your cash. Explain, or at least just admit that this is lame flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101995) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:29 PM Author: wonderful tattoo Really I don't think that being available Sunday evening for immediate work was necessary in this case or in general. I understand that there are no fixed hours, but I do think it's unreasonable for me to be expected to be available when it's not actually necessary and I'm already at home. I've done my share of all-nighters in BIGLAW, but typically there's a good reason for them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12102016) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:30 PM Author: glassy stain idea he suggested see below for my Bartleby suggestion (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12102025) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:33 PM Author: Navy Frozen Knife The thing is, you're a junior associate. Its up to more senior attorneys to decide what's necessary and what's not. Frankly, sounds like they were correct and you weren't.
Weekends aren't particularly sacred in biglaw. That's how it works. Be happy if you can calmly complete it at home rather than having to come into the office. |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:17 PM Author: seedy topaz prole way to make yourself invaluable, fish. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101945) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:18 PM Author: Navy Frozen Knife :( (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101951) |
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Date: June 29th, 2009 8:23 AM Author: Cerebral sandwich location I'm symphathetic to your situation. A lot of associates in biglaw essentially have a slave mentality and you really can't compete with them since when they get shit on, they just smile and ask for more, in terms of availibility. Some of this mentality is cultural (protestant work ethic, striving) and some of it is due to folks like Fish who really need/want the money.
I am particularly not a fan of folks who say it comes with the territory. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:33 AM Author: Sienna crotch resort It has nothing to do with a slave mentality. I hated biglaw with the fire of a thousand suns, which is why I left. But I always understood that biglaw involves long unpredictable hours and the sacrifice of many weekends. Wanting to do biglaw without these sacrifices would be like wanting to be a firefighter without having to take out fires.
There are plenty of jobs that don’t require to be in on weekends, but those jobs wont pay 25 year olds with zero useful skills 160K+.
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Date: July 3rd, 2009 5:58 PM Author: Cerebral sandwich location People who think that have a slave mentality or work at an incredibly bad biglaw firm (for the employee, great for the firm). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12151726) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:13 PM Author: amber address http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101922) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:18 PM Author: wonderful tattoo This is not about competence, rather it's about my not being willing to be tied to work all the time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101950) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:18 PM Author: amber address it's about u being a clueless dumbass. and incompetent at ur job. and unable to perceive that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101955) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:21 PM Author: glassy stain idea he suggested he doesn't give a shit, that's what you strivers don't seem to understand (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101969) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:23 PM Author: amber address no, he wants it to be one way. but it's that other way. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101979) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:24 PM Author: glassy stain idea he suggested titc the wire reference (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101986) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:25 PM Author: wonderful tattoo We would be better off if BIGLAW weren't this way. Given how BIGLAW is, I don't want to stay in it. I'm just coasting and taking the nice paychecks for as long as I can stand it until I get fired. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12101990) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:29 PM Author: glassy stain idea he suggested dood, you ought to pull a Bartleby the Scrivener move and when a partner or senior associate asks you to do something, look them dead in the face and say "I would prefer not to." Then slowly turn back to your computer screen and wait for them to leave. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12102014) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:31 PM Author: wonderful tattoo lol, I do still like getting the checks for now though...Also I want to get laid off rather than fired for cause so I can get unemployment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12102028) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:32 PM Author: glassy stain idea he suggested it will completely fuck with their world, though. They won't have any idea how to respond and I'll bet you could hang on there for another couple months doing absolutely nothing except freaking them the fuck out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12102034) |
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Date: June 28th, 2009 1:10 PM Author: Navy Frozen Knife You mean, we'd be better off if we got huge paychecks and worked 9-5? lulz. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12106291) |
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Date: June 28th, 2009 1:31 PM Author: Sapphire stimulating pocket flask ALL law is this way. You are working in a field with deadlines that if you miss, you're fucked. Even shitlawyers have to work weekends when there is a motion due on Monday. Sorry about your tiny pink understanding of the legal profession, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12106376) |
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Date: June 28th, 2009 1:35 PM Author: Sapphire stimulating pocket flask It is horribly incompetent for you to ignore emails pertaining to a time sensitive document and figure that you could make the necessary corrections, have them reviewed and have the document go out in about three hours. Lulz @ your shitty work ethic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12106386) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:32 PM Author: amber address bottom line here is OP wants people to concur with him that he did "nothing wrong." it's obvious tho that he fucked up, and he has no excuse.
if u hate biglaw, then fine, leave. but don't try to pretend that u didn't have it coming when they can u. and u weren't being any sort of "rebel," and u don't have any moral high ground here. if u were a rebel, u would have been doing something real instead of taking the path of least resistance into biglaw to begin with.
u were just a lazy, incompetent fuck up. so u will get what lazy, incompetent fuck ups get -- gone. if ur happy that it's over, then i'm happy for u. but don't try to make it something it isn't.
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:33 PM Author: glassy stain idea he suggested does he actually say this somewhere in this thread? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12102046) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:34 PM Author: mind-boggling orange rigor whorehouse It's flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12102049) |
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Date: June 27th, 2009 7:34 PM Author: Navy Frozen Knife This seems right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12102051) |
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Date: June 29th, 2009 1:16 AM Author: wonderful tattoo I shouldn't have used the word "exploit" in this thread. Instead, I mean to say that in general employers do not consider themselves to have any moral obligation to their employees, and as a result they maximize their profits by attempting to extract from their employees as much as they can (this may in fact be exploitative, but this is a less loaded way to think of it). As a result, I don't feel like employees should feel any moral obligations to their employers--it should widely be considered fair game to try to extract as much as possible from your employer.
In general I think it's interesting and sad that there is this general perception of moral obligation by employees, yet employers are considered to be doing the right thing when they are simply maximizing profits. Where does this indoctrination come from? |
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Date: June 29th, 2009 8:55 AM Author: Galvanic brunch regret What pensive would say is that there is no sense of moral obligation by employees. Employees in BIGLAW check their blackberries 38 times per weekend not because of any sort of corporate loyalty, but because they're on the wrong side of a power dynamic, especially ITE.
There's no actual loyalty on either side anymore. An employee will leave if he thinks he can get better pay, advancement opportunities, and mentoring elsewhere. And he should. An employer will lay people off if it can't make adequate use of their work, as it likewise should. The problem isn't that corporations are profit-maximizing, but that they're extremely short-sighted and that the profit-maximizing ideology isn't applied fairly or evenly (employees get sacked before CEOs lose their ridiculous compensation and severance). |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:37 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Pensive would be right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12129712) |
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Date: October 16th, 2009 1:41 PM Author: thriller karate THIS. it's amazing how short-sighted people have become in recent years. nobody seems to think about long-term potential any more. everything is geared towards maximizing profits in the very near short-term. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:37 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Labor economics isn't really your thing, is it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12129704) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2009 5:59 PM Author: Lavender contagious alpha principal's office is it yours fish? thank god that free market worked to allocate biglaw jobs away from your shit-for-skillset demographic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#12151733) |
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Date: October 16th, 2009 1:48 PM Author: maize dog poop nursing home pwned (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#13003537) |
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Date: October 16th, 2009 10:20 PM Author: Charismatic angry plaza I think the OP made ATL
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/10/quinn_emanuel_wants_associates.php?show=comments#comments |
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Date: October 16th, 2009 10:26 PM Author: painfully honest orchestra pit dopamine No, but he was laid off a few days ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#13007666) |
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Date: October 16th, 2009 10:29 PM Author: infuriating adventurous puppy Whoa! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#13007700) |
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Date: October 17th, 2009 7:46 AM Author: Vengeful costumed forum nowag You sound like a little bitch dude. Seriously, cry more. Why else is your pathetic ass worth $200k per year if you are not willing to work harder than the average person? You are not that special or that smart.
At-will employment for a top tax bracket salary. You are, by definition, not being exploited. If you think the job is not worth the money, you are free to quit and go work at Wal-Mart. |
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Date: October 17th, 2009 8:59 AM Author: soul-stirring nubile bbw One thing people seem to be leaving out is how funny it is that people think the minor edits on a response brief were life-alteringly important. If it's one thing people in biglaw have, it's a gross overestimation of the importance of their work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#13009979) |
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Date: October 17th, 2009 10:27 AM Author: thriller karate so true. partners are usually control freaks for the sake of being in control, not because it has much of anything to do with actual job performance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#13010163) |
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Date: October 17th, 2009 10:56 AM Author: Greedy university Subject: This was my point. It's not that big of a fucking deal. These people are looking for a scapegoat and are probably using this fire drill to cover their own asses. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#13010280) |
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Date: October 17th, 2009 10:10 AM Author: Vermilion Exhilarant Indirect Expression I missed this post the first time around. What we have here is a kid who has never had a real job before biglaw. Frankly, he doesn't know what work is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#13010088) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 8:48 PM Author: wonderful tattoo This may be of interest to some around here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14648950) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:02 PM Author: Twisted cuckoldry cuck are you still working? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649084) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:06 PM Author: Apoplectic Pink Kitchen So, this is all TLDR and I skipped the middle banter. What happened to you since then as a result? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649127) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:09 PM Author: wonderful tattoo Yeah, I got fired last year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649160) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:12 PM Author: Apoplectic Pink Kitchen Fired immediately or near-immediately thereafter for cause from the incident, and you were the only one fired?
Or were you fired during reviews "for performance reasons"?
Or were you "laid off" with a group of other people?
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:14 PM Author: wonderful tattoo A while later, basically during reviews. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649216) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:09 PM Author: Exciting Territorial Codepig Roommate Interesting. Are you still at that job? Did you get fired? Do you still hate it?
I kind of sympathize with you. I think you probably messed up by not checking your blackberry, but it does kind of suck to work at a job where this kind of thing is required. On the other hand, I can't think of any interesting legal or business job where you have to check your blackberry on at least some weekends. Even the government sometimes has to file briefs, and I'm sure things get a little hectic before briefs are due. |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:11 PM Author: wonderful tattoo This was a worthless bullshit brief, and what I had initially was fine. We ended up losing the case anyway for other reasons, which turned out to be exactly what I knew was going to happen. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649182) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:12 PM Author: Exciting Territorial Codepig Roommate Did you find a better job at least? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649192) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:15 PM Author: Beta gay step-uncle's house Oh my god, you knew the client had a really bad position and you did half ass work and then your services weren't in demand? Insane that they would let go a junior lawyer who has the insight to save everyone money by not working that hard. You should have written a memo proposing a happy hour. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649230) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 10:30 PM Author: wonderful tattoo No, I'm saying that the partners were idiots and my brief was fine the way it was. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649842) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:11 PM Author: Drab Provocative Athletic Conference National Security Agency wha happened broserf? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649181) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:12 PM Author: wonderful tattoo Fired/laid off not long after. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649188) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:12 PM Author: Beta gay step-uncle's house And now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649199) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:15 PM Author: wonderful tattoo Taking some time off to enjoy life so far. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649226) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:14 PM Author: wonderful tattoo See http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1110865&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649211) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:26 PM Author: Brilliant marvelous senate queen of the night I'd fire your ass. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649329) |
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Date: April 8th, 2010 9:30 PM Author: Aphrodisiac International Law Enforcement Agency Home This seemed preordained after http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=940918&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14649359) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 12:39 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Sure, I knew I wasn't going to last there long from the beginning. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14651316) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 1:07 AM Author: Tan sinister national Looking back on this story...
What you did is not *that* out of line in my opinion. I happen to work for people at a BIGLAW firm who would never in a million years treat me like your firm treated you. I've also worked at a firm where your story was closer to par for the course, but still a little extreme. I'm not sure you've provided all the relevant facts to this story. But if everyone just ignored your brief on Saturday and didn't comment until Sunday at 6 p.m., I have to say -- you had a right to be pissed. |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 1:24 AM Author: spectacular giraffe Nah, dood, re-read. The mid-level commented it on it Friday, but this dood didn't *read* it until Sunday evening. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14651731) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 1:40 AM Author: wonderful tattoo If I remember correctly, the mid-level's comments basically consisted of a question and a mild suggestion rather than any indication that anything particularly urgent would be necessary. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14651915) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 1:44 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Yeah, I think the upper-level associate's approval should have been enough for me to rely on. To me, the brief was done at that point. Fuck the partners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14651950) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:16 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife What? The partner has the final say on everything. Why on earth would you think the senior associate's word would be final on anything? And ultimately, you work for the partners, not the senior associate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652144) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:22 AM Author: wonderful tattoo I am aware that the partners were employing me. I think the organization of this particular assignment was somewhat dysfunctional in that I got an assignment from the senior associate to help him out with this and I gave it back to him without a full understanding that this brief had actually become my assignment in the eyes of the partners and not his. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652167) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:35 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Which would have worked itself out if you had consistently checked your blackberry like reasonable associates do, yes? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652265) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:56 AM Author: wonderful tattoo I maintain that it was unreasonable to check the blackberry on a non-urgent matter like this outside normal business hours. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652381) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 9:31 AM Author: Beta gay step-uncle's house I maintain you can't know what is urgent until you check your blackberry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14653357) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:24 AM Author: wonderful tattoo TMF, I know how much you love to suck the cock of anyone with more power than you, but really it's just not my thing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652182) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:34 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife It's not that I love it, it is that it comes with the territory. Why on earth did you get into biglaw if this "wasn't your thing?" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652262) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:45 AM Author: wonderful tattoo I just wanted to make some decent money for as long as I could stand it really. It worked out about how I expected. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652320) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 1:23 AM Author: Talking church kitty I am more prone to being inquisitive, to promote discussion. I want to find out what your thinking was. I want to find out what your feelings are. And did you learn anything? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14651720) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:02 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Well, I was generally dissatisfied there to begin with, and I was particularly annoyed by that particular case, which we were on the wrong side of. The assignment kind of morphed from me helping out the upper-level associate with some brief writing into me being the only person responsible for answering to the partners on that brief without my really being informed that happened. I thought the issue was generally inane and inconsequential, as well as lacking case support on either side. So I wrote what I thought was sufficient for the purpose, got approval from the person who essentially assigned it to me, and figured I was done (or ought to be done). I honestly thought at that point, and was led to believe by the upper-level, that any meddling by the partners would be minor. I certainly didn't want to work on it on the weekend, but I figured that something minor would be ok. When Sunday came and there was nothing in the email at the time that I may have been willing to work on it a little, I was done with it. To me, it was the partner's problem for not getting to it earlier. In general, I'm really not interested in being their bitch all the damn time.
Did I learn anything? I learned yet again that partners always like to get involved at the last minute in more substantial ways than is reasonable at that point--I've noticed that particular thing multiple times with different partners. I learned more about how much of a huge asshole this particular partner is as well. I learned that I need to get the fuck out of BIGLAW and hierarchy in general, to the extent I didn't already know that. |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:17 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife So you got an opportunity to shine and instead decided that you had better things to do, amirite? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652148) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:23 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Shine? What the fuck are you talking about? There was no shining to be done on this particular thing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652171) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:28 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife In a terrible case you still have to put out as good of a product as possible to get the best settlement terms possible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652224) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:35 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Honestly I think our side of the case was morally wrong and illegitimate to begin with. In any case, there really wasn't any room for this particular assignment to produce any better results on that issue or put any pressure on or impress anyone on the other side. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652267) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:37 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Uh, wait, so you thought you would only be working on the "morally correct" side of cases? What, did you think biglaw would be something like Boston Legal? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652272) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:47 AM Author: wonderful tattoo The vast majority of cases aren't so clear. This one was truly an egregious abuse of the legal system. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652334) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:22 AM Author: Chestnut hissy fit jew So what were you paid per year and per hour? If it's what I think of biglaw in my mind, I think you simply were not willing to work what's expected for the level of pay. I mean, here we are on a web forum in the middle of the night. I know I check my email almost every hour at night. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652166) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:26 AM Author: wonderful tattoo It's funny how much xoers enjoy and legitimize their own enslavement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652199) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:27 AM Author: Chestnut hissy fit jew LOL, I'm nowhere near law. So what did you do on that Sunday night that was so important? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652207) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:29 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Not check my blackberry constantly, that's for sure. In fact I believe on that particular night I was hanging out downstairs in a bathrobe watching some TV before I fell asleep early. My cell phone was in my pants upstairs, so I didn't hear it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652228) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 9:33 AM Author: Beta gay step-uncle's house The sad part is this is my ideal Sunday night. But I keep my bb next to me with the red light facing me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14653367) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:29 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Question - what are you up to these days? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652229) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:57 AM Author: wonderful tattoo Doing as little as possible for as long as possible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652388) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 3:11 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Still in law? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652507) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 3:17 AM Author: wonderful tattoo I'm somewhat happily unemployed right now, but that can't last forever. I don't anticipate a return to being a lawyer--I don't want to go to another law firm, and I don't expect to be able to get an in-house job or even any half-decent government job. I might do something related, but I have yet to make a firm decision. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652565) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 9:29 AM Author: Tan sinister national It's not proper for a partner to send comments out of the blue on Sunday evening and expect them to be implemented that night. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14653352) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:30 AM Author: Purple Factory Reset Button Trump Supporter it's pretty clear OP works at a TTT firm. getting fired from a TTT = the undisputed apex of prestige. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652234) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:31 AM Author: copper shrine This thread makes me think that maybe missing out on BigLaw was not the worst thing in the world (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652241) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:32 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Really? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652243) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:32 AM Author: copper shrine I love money, but I also love slacking off (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652250) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:33 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Then why did you ever want biglaw? Did you not realize that you earn that money by being on call 24/7 and often working late/weekends? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652254) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:36 AM Author: copper shrine It was a combination of not realizing that, plus a feeling of "for that amount of money I'd do anything, anything at all."
As a SA, I saw what they were doing to some of the junior associates but I always thought that I wouldn't mind it for the paycheck or that I'd find clever ways to shirk.
I dunno, maybe I am deluding myself to be happy with my current fate. But it will be nice to have free time that's actually free. |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:42 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife Sounds like things definitely worked out for the best for you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652304) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:38 AM Author: bateful narrow-minded meetinghouse feces BIGGOV is prob the best thing that could happen for you, as long as it isnt really SHITGOV (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652277) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 2:43 AM Author: Navy Frozen Knife tcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14652306) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 8:24 AM Author: wild lay filthpig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14653203) |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 8:54 AM Author: Bipolar casino can't believe that no one has said
CHECK YOU EMAILS |
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Date: April 9th, 2010 9:32 AM Author: Tan sinister national I doubt even Bill Urquhart would say you need to check your e-mails on Sunday evening when you're unaware that there's anything going on. Litigation doesn't have emergencies pop up on Sunday evenings. The only issue here is whether the OP should have reasonably expected major comments regarding his brief and that's hard to tell without more context. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1026507&forum_id=2#14653364) |