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~Law School Rankings according to USN Lawyers/Judges Survey ONLY
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:18 PM Author: startled ocher windowlicker orchestra pit Subject: Today I will change your life. pres·tige, n. 1. The level of respect at which one is regarded by others; standing.
PREFACE:
When a decadent and/or shrewd individual decides to pursue a juris doctor, she must take into account the weight of prestige of the degrees offered by the country's motley of academic institutions. But whose metrics of prestige should be favored in this analysis? Leiter's? Cooley's (http://www.cooley.edu/rankings/ )?
Convention tells us that U.S. World News Law School Rankings is the one true knighter of prestige. I respectfully diverge...
As the matter of prestige is wholly a matter of reputation, I dare say that prestige is best viewed through the lens of the people. U.S. News does a fine job of ranking academic QUALITY, but not academic PRESTIGE.
Now, granted, I don't reccommend a country-wide survey of all citizens be conducted asking which law schools are the most prestigious. This is primarily because only a small portion of the populous comprises the audience which assigns prestige to the institutions in legal academia: lawyers and judges. Note that I don't include legal academia itself in this "audience" (hence my omitting the USN peer ranking) because it is quite unprestigious to ask legal academia to prestige rank itself.
Some of you may find my angle vexing, and I make no apologies. I will not preemptively respond to criticisms, though I do invite you to leave them below. Debate will most certainly ensue.
However, I am confident that many of you will find these rankings enlightening, compensating for your doubts in the overall USN law school ranking system. You will notice many interesting deviations in the ranking of particular schools between the two systems. You will also notice that my Tier/Echelon system is revolutionary, and astutely brilliant, and I thank you for your praise for this in advance.
And now...
THE XOXO PRESTIGE RANKINGS, as measured by USN's 2007 assessment score by lawyer's and judges.
*Tier 1/1st Echelon* [Scores < 5.0] 1. Yale (4.8) 1. Harvard 1 Stanford 4. Columbia (4.7) 4. U. Chicago 6. NYU (4.6) 6. Michigan 6. UVA 9. Boalt (4.5) 9. UPenn
*Tier 1/2nd Echelon* [Scores < 4.5] 11. Cornell (4.4) 11. Duke 11. Northwestern 14. Georgetown (4.3) 14. Univ. of Texas 14. Vanderbilt 17. UCLA (4.0) 17. UNC
*Tier 1/3rd Echelon* [Scores < 4.0] 19. Emory (3.9) 20. GWU (3.8) 20. U.C.-Hast. 20. Minn. 20. Notre Dame 20. W&L 20. WU-STL 26. Boston Col. (3.7) 26. W&M 26. U. Illinois 26. Iowa 26 USC 26. Wisconsin 32. Boston U. (3.6) 32. Fordham 32. Ohio State 32. U.C.-Davis 32. Wake Forest 37. Indiana-BL (3.5) 37. Florida 37. U. Washington
*Tier 1/4th Echelon* [< 3.5] 40. Grg Mason (3.4) 40. Tulane 42. American (3.3) 42. Baylor 42. BYU 42. Case-Western 42. SMU 42. Alabama 42. U. Pitt. 42. Villanova
Tier 2/1st Echelon [< 3.25] 50. Temple (3.2) 50 Colorado 50. Georgia 53. Penn St. (3.1) 53. Rutgers [Both] 53. St. Louis 53. Arizona 53. Kansas 53. Maryland 53. Missouri 53. Oregon 53. Tennessee 62. Arizona St. (3.0) 62. Catholic 62. Florida St. 62. Louisiana St. 62. Loyola-Chicago 62. Seton Hall 62. U. Cincinnati 62. U. Conn 62. U. Kentucky 62. U. Miami 62. Nebraska 62. Oklahoma 62. Michigan St. *** 62. Mississippi ***
Tier 2/2nd Echelon [< 3.0] 76. Loyola-CA (2.9) 76. Marquette 76. Pepperdine 76. U. Richmond 76. South Carolina 76. Utah 76. Yeshiva-Cardozo 76. Syracuse *** 84. Depaul (2.8) 84. Chicago-Kent 84. Indiana-INDY 84. Santa Clara 84. U. Seattle 84. St. Johns 84. Buffalo-SUNY 84. U. Denver 84. U. Houston 84. U. San Fran. 84. Gonzaga *** 84. Hofstra *** 84. Loyola-NO *** 84. Arkansas *** 84. South Dakota ++++ *Tier 2/3rd Echelon* [Scores <2.75] 97. Brooklyn (2.7) 97. Lewis & Clark 97. New Mexico 97. Creighton *** 97. Howard *** 97. U. Wyoming *** 97. Duquesne ++++ 97. Valparaiso ++++
***- denotes jump from U.S. News Tier 3 ++++- denotes jump from U.S. News Tier 4
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:25 PM Author: Aromatic ebony locus cumskin this makes a good bit of sense. tyty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935416) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:28 PM Author: startled ocher windowlicker orchestra pit ywyw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935431) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:30 PM Author: frum fuchsia senate hissy fit UNC tied with UCLA is a stretch. Other than that, pretty credited, minus the NYU=UMich=UVa>Penn+Boalt fiasco. Glad BC is above BU. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935438) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:33 PM Author: startled ocher windowlicker orchestra pit keep in mind a lot of old fuck lawyers and judges have no idea that UNC has been in decline lately. this shows that prestige is fairly settled, not subject to much flux. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935453) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:30 PM Author: adventurous bright party of the first part this seems to fit better with the overall perception of the schools from law students as well (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935441) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:32 PM Author: Godawful meetinghouse Except for UVA and MICH being above PENN, I agree. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935449) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:34 PM Author: frum fuchsia senate hissy fit Credited. I'd probably put Boalt along with UVa/UMich. They are the best publics, they should be grouped together anyways. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935459) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:36 PM Author: titillating white institution idiot lol. pEnn trolls are retarded. it's hilarious to see non T4 shitholes fight amongst themselves. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935467) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:39 PM Author: frum fuchsia senate hissy fit NYU troll. It is clearly CCN if you are a Chicago or Columbia troll. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935480) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:43 PM Author: titillating white institution idiot i mostly do the T4 schtick in jest, but pEnn trolls really are delusional. can you please name some prominent pEnn law grads? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935493) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:53 PM Author: frum fuchsia senate hissy fit Martin Luther King, George Washington, Howard K. Stern (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935554) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:42 PM Author: Godawful meetinghouse Uh, 1) no fighting so far, 2) there are 'fights' for the number four spot, 3) subtle troll for T4
You're right, though, someone IS retarded.
*nods head toward no and rolls eyes* |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:45 PM Author: titillating white institution idiot >*nods head toward and rolls eyes about no*
haha.
*shakes fists angrily at skippy. take out wizard staff and cast level 4 fireball.* |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 3:16 PM Author: Overrated mauve theatre Penn is right where it should be. It deff doesnt belong any higher, but it still should be in the top 10. UVA and Mich are certainly better though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7936066) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:32 PM Author: burgundy clown theater stage here we go again with the leiter bullshit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935447) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:34 PM Author: startled ocher windowlicker orchestra pit dude, I think Leiter is a douche. I'm no UT troll. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935457) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:52 PM Author: spruce unholy tank Hello, Brian. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935545) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 2:12 PM Author: startled ocher windowlicker orchestra pit subtle georgetown troll (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935686) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:44 PM Author: Glassy Codepig Boiling Water credited! everyone knows that EMORY is a legit T20. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935498) |
Date: April 15th, 2007 1:42 PM Author: Soul-stirring feces dopamine *Waits for EMORY student to arrive* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935490) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:47 PM Author: Soul-stirring feces dopamine PWN3D!!!
Reply
Date: April 15th, 2007 1:44 PM Author: emory student (yes, THE emory)
credited! everyone knows that EMORY is a legit T20.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935498)
ReplyEdit Your Message
Date: April 15th, 2007 1:42 PM Author: Civility to XOXO (RETIRED)
*Waits for EMORY student to arrive* |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:48 PM Author: Glassy Codepig Boiling Water ...and arrive we have, friend! into the T20!! huzzah! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935518) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:48 PM Author: Odious brass box office awesome ranking based on sweet 5% response rate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935515) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 2:09 PM Author: startled ocher windowlicker orchestra pit link? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935668) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 1:50 PM Author: Stirring Kitchen The flaw in your reasoning is this - why should the subset of us who focus exclusively on the elite T14 care what "judges and lawyers" think about those schools? I care what federal district and court of appeals judges and supreme court justices think, and I care what BIGLAW partners in about 5 cities think. I care what lawyers for some parts of the federal government think. And that's it.
Your ranking dirties the mix with unwashed state judges, small firm and solo practitioner toiletheads, administrative hearing officers, people in Tampa and Indianapolis, etc.
HTH |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 2:11 PM Author: startled ocher windowlicker orchestra pit Who do you think is actually more likely to respond to a USN ranking survey? A tampa personal injury lawyer or a douchebag BIGLAW associate in NYC?
This is not to assert that I think you're entirely off here. Perhaps this ranking is more useful to understanding the T25-T100 than the T14. |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 2:23 PM Author: Soggy Marketing Idea Chapel What about that hole you left uncovered - the T15-T24? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935733) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 2:25 PM Author: titillating white institution idiot anti-fordham troll. i'm guessing you go to notttre dame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935741) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 2:18 PM Author: Swollen Stubborn Volcanic Crater Really Tough Guy throw in big business (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7935710) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 3:09 PM Author: narrow-minded aphrodisiac nursing home depressive Also, a truly preftigious ranking would have stopped counting after the T10. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7936006) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 4:27 PM Author: startled ocher windowlicker orchestra pit prestige is a continuum my man (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=613656&forum_id=2#7936510) |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 2:46 PM Author: irradiated property why the hell should we accept the views of 'judges and lawyers' as more legit than the overall rankings? At best I think any single lawyer or judge could truly have a substantive opinion of four or five schools (from personal experience working with grads from such schools or from teaching there/knowing students there or whatnot). The rest of their ranking probably comes from how USnews ranked schools while they were applying, or from past issues they have looked at. For example, a judge in Chicago has no business ranking BU vs BC having not met one single grad, or stepped into either school once in his career, or talked to a single professor from either school. And I bet this is the norm rather than the exception for lawyers and judges, thy just don't have that kind of experience. |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 3:24 PM Author: Drab lettuce I agree. Further, an academic is likely to have a better understanding of the relative qualities of schools. For that reason I look mainly at the Peer Assessment Score. Further, for other disciplines, peer assessment is the entire rank, so clearly it is more meaningful in the grander scheme of things.
I disagree that the overall rankings mean anything, because UsNews does not measure school quality as much as it measures a school's ability to manipulate statistics.
Truth is that peer rep scores closely mirrors true quality and prestige in the legal field. |
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Date: April 15th, 2007 4:00 PM Author: startled ocher windowlicker orchestra pit It doesn't matter whether or not they have a more "legitimate" claim to ranking schools, all that matters is that THEY are the only audience that matters. We are talking about "prestige" here-- not academic "quality"
Read again: The matter of prestige is wholly a matter of reputation. U.S. News does a fine job of ranking academic QUALITY, but not PRESTIGE.
HTFH |