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MSN Money: ARE BABY BOOMERS TO BLAME?

Not to spoil the surprise or anything, but you've probably g...
fluffy hyperventilating corner
  05/24/12
way too optimistic, assumes gen x and y can actually change ...
tan stage
  05/24/12
180
wine codepig
  05/24/12
"Why do I need to save for retirement? I have plenty of...
henna mad-dog skullcap faggotry
  05/24/12
...
naked twinkling coffee pot home
  05/24/12
Why is not everyone in this thread supporting this article? ...
bright famous landscape painting rigor
  05/24/12
CP. We need someone to stand up against the Boomers bro? Wh...
razzle magenta institution
  05/24/12
tl;dr: HAHA YOUR FUCKED
infuriating fragrant school cafeteria
  05/24/12
...
Bipolar Mischievous Cuckold
  05/24/12
this is just so fucking depressing... i'm honestly scared fo...
Titillating blood rage hospital
  05/24/12
leave the country. that's what i'm doing. America has econom...
infuriating fragrant school cafeteria
  05/24/12
this is going to reverberate through every western nation. a...
Slate coiffed rigpig therapy
  05/24/12
Australia is calling brother
infuriating fragrant school cafeteria
  05/24/12
as good as it gets pretty much but still in the thrall of ch...
Slate coiffed rigpig therapy
  05/24/12
my logic is this: i expect to make somewhere between $100k a...
infuriating fragrant school cafeteria
  05/24/12
so you're a boomer in spirit
Slate coiffed rigpig therapy
  05/24/12
no, i'm not shifting my burden on to someone else because of...
infuriating fragrant school cafeteria
  05/24/12
if you believe in progressive taxation, given that you've ac...
Slate coiffed rigpig therapy
  05/24/12
people who believe this shit can suck my dick. not sure why ...
bateful dragon
  05/24/12
the society you're born into has everything to do with the t...
Slate coiffed rigpig therapy
  05/24/12
sure, but the u.s. has gotten to the point that it asks far ...
bateful dragon
  05/24/12
idk man it's all fucked
Slate coiffed rigpig therapy
  05/24/12
*is NYTimes * *changes the subject to gay marriage*
Bipolar Mischievous Cuckold
  05/24/12
...
henna mad-dog skullcap faggotry
  05/24/12
...
lake irate dopamine sanctuary
  05/24/12
...
tan stage
  05/24/12
...
infuriating fragrant school cafeteria
  05/24/12
fucking assholes just put all your retirement "savings&...
tan stage
  05/24/12
holy shit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932012_...
tan stage
  05/24/12
lol what the fuck do they stand for? that's the problem wit...
racy brilliant senate newt
  05/24/12
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2012/05/23/10...
swashbuckling base ratface
  05/24/12
lol well i dunno about that, but isn't it also important to ...
Elite roast beef
  05/24/12
if the roots are tainted, you gotta yank them out
Gold property international law enforcement agency
  05/24/12


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:57 AM
Author: fluffy hyperventilating corner

Not to spoil the surprise or anything, but you've probably gathered that I'm not a boomer. And I'm not here to go after boomers on social issues, or on the way they wasted the Greatest Generation's legacy: America as the world's sole superpower, a dynamic economy, a vibrant middle class and state-of-the-art infrastructure. OK, maybe I'm a little miffed.

Although there are grounds for an intergenerational fight, I'm more interested in the tragic nature of all this. Boomers, fully committed to the postwar consumerist culture and suffering from the rise and fall of two epic asset price bubbles, haven't saved enough for retirement. They also didn't have enough kids -- you know, sexual revolution and all. I'll have more on that in a minute.

Rising life expectancies make the problem worse. And long-stagnant wages for the middle class haven't helped.

The 2012 Retirement Confidence Survey (.pdf file) by the Employee Benefit Research Institute paints a grim picture. Only 14% of workers are very confident they will be able to afford a comfortable retirement. Some 60% of workers report that the total value of savings and investments, excluding the value of their primary residence, is less than $25,000. And while 56% expect to receive benefits from a defined-benefit plan in retirement, only 33% report that they or their spouse currently has such a plan.

Clearly, false hope and procrastination are at work.

Thus, instead of enjoying the twilight of life atop a Harley or upon white sandy beaches, a lot of these folks will be staying in the workforce -- often at low-paying, menial positions -- just to survive. The percentage of respondents expecting to retire before the age of 60 has fallen from nearly 20% in 1991 to just 8% now, while the percentage of workers expecting to clock out at 70 or older has jumped from 9% to 26% over the same period.

With the stock market coming off its worst 10-year performance since the Great Depression and with housing still in the tank, that's not surprising. But here's the kicker: By clogging up the job market, this army of gray labor will make it harder for the cohort of would-be workers ages 16 to 34 to get any traction. And that will only get worse, because the oldest boomers are now 66.

Younger workers are the folks who put money into housing and the stock market; they're the buyers who allow older folks entering retirement to cash in those assets. They also pay the taxes that keep entitlements like Social Security going.

It's a vicious cycle. Boomers are working longer because they can't retire, and they can't retire because their homes and nest eggs aren't holding their value, much less gaining. This keeps younger folks from taking over their jobs, which would allow the younger folks to buy those homes and start building their own nest eggs, pouring fresh cash into investments. (Instead, it seems, a lot of those younger folks are moving back in with their boomer parents. The cycle of misery is complete.)

No wonder net household wealth in the U.S. is down 15% from its pre-recession peak.

Young and old, both going nowhere

I saw this demographic debacle in action last week at the Las Vegas MoneyShow. Attendees were -- how should I say this -- of a certain vintage: baby boomers and even older. What I heard was a far cry from the popular excitement with which investing was viewed back in the 1980s and 1990s. The people who are still actively managing their investments are focused on capital preservation, thrift and income -- as they should be as they age -- not capital gains and investing fads like social media.

The young, bloodthirsty risk-takers were MIA.

The shift can be felt in many ways. Here at MSN Money, reader traffic often spikes during market meltdowns, while quiet uptrends are largely ignored. Since the recession ended, the action has focused on things like bonds and dividend sources as money is pulled out of equities. Mutual fund data show that over the past three years, private investors have been net redeemers of stocks two-thirds of the time as they sell into rallies and tuck the cash into more defensive, income-producing assets.

So it's not surprising that New York Stock Exchange primary market volume has fallen to levels not seen since the late 1990s. It was then that the share of the population focused on risk and capital growth (those ages 25 to 49) peaked at around 39%. Since then, the share of the capital preservers (ages 50 to 74) has grown from around 20% to 28%.

In short, investors are checking out. Data from the Investment Company Institute show that the portion of financial assets in retirement accounts peaked in the late 1990s at around 35% and has been flat-lining ever since.

You can see it in the labor market, too, as Gluskin Sheff economist David Rosenberg recently pointed out in a note to clients. Since the Great Recession ended, folks 55 years old and older have seen their employment jump by 3.8 million; for everyone else, employment has dropped 8.2 million.

Labor participation rates suggest that boomers are keeping youngsters out of jobs. The employment-to-population rate for the 55-and-up crowd has hovered near 38% over this time; for everyone else, it's dropped from 73.3% to 68.5%. As a result, the unemployment rate for teens ages 16 to 19 is a Europe-like 25%, while for the 20- to 24-year-olds it's a painful 13%.

Rather than fight their parents and grandparents for jobs, many choose to hide out in college, pushing up tuition costs and student indebtedness. Total student loan debt has reached more than $1 trillion. Now, 94% of those graduating with bachelor's degrees are in the hole, versus 45% two decades ago.

That's why these post-baccalaureates are landing on their parents' couches.

Feeling sick yet?

The other dynamic here is that as the boomers age, they will put increasing strain on the social entitlement system, since there are fewer young workers available to pay into the programs. At the same time, the biggest bugaboo -- health care -- is suffering massive cost inflation. We're just beginning to feel the pinch. Right now, the ratio of those 65 and older versus those 15-64 is right around 20%. By 2035, it'll be closer to 35%.

The math gets ugly when that happens, according to Credit Suisse economist Neal Soss. The surge in retirees pushes up costs for Social Security and Medicare (cost as a percentage of taxable income) while the income rate (tax revenue as a percentage of taxable income) remains more or less flat.

Looking only at Social Security, the cost exceeded tax revenues in 2010. Should this continue, the disability insurance fund will run out in 2016 and the Social Security trust fund will be empty in 2033.

Given the situation with retirement savings, more and more people depend on these funds for basic expenses. Indeed, the share of income for those 65 and older from Social Security has increased from 31% in 1962 to 37% now. Given the data I just outlined, this is likely to continue to rise. So cutting benefits isn't a realistic solution.

Politicians will probably choose to raise taxes on younger workers -- the ones who can find jobs and are repaying their student loans. The Social Security Administration's 2012 trustees report projected that if the payroll tax rate were immediately increased by 2.67% of income, the trust could keep going through 2086. Just try to sell that to indebted, underpaid youngsters. We'll have our own version of Spain's indignados movement.

It's the same story with health care. Health expenditures in the United States are among the highest in the world -- and focused overwhelmingly on the very old, courtesy of the government -- while spending on the 20- and 30-somethings, the people we need to keep healthy to pay those Social Security taxes, is relatively low.

Still, until we find a solution to the underfunded entitlement programs, the government's overall debt/deficit problem isn't going away.

Stuck in limbo

So, what's the takeaway from all this?

For investors, stocks probably won't break out of their 12-year funk until young workers start generating enough income to pay down debt, overcome high tax burdens, buy homes and start saving for retirement in a big way. And they won't be able to do that until other structural issues -- especially the debt/deficit problem -- are resolved. We're in a trader's market, searching for special stocks going up rather than marketwide gains, and we'll be there a while.

For all of us, it's time to pressure politicians to take action and break this cycle. We're only 12 years from all tax revenues going to aging boomers and interest payments. We're only 21 years from the Social Security trust fund running dry.

And we can see these moments coming. They've been in the cards since the first boomer was born on New Year's Day in 1946. THERE'S NO EXCUSE FOR NOT GETTING READY. AND NOW MY GENERATION WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.

http://money.msn.com/investing/are-baby-boomers-to-blame-mirhaydari.aspx

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20757629)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:27 PM
Author: tan stage

way too optimistic, assumes gen x and y can actually change shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761151)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 10:28 AM
Author: wine codepig

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20757748)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 10:29 AM
Author: henna mad-dog skullcap faggotry

"Why do I need to save for retirement? I have plenty of equity in my boat and jet ski."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20757750)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 10:31 AM
Author: naked twinkling coffee pot home



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20757755)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 1:28 PM
Author: bright famous landscape painting rigor

Why is not everyone in this thread supporting this article?

THIS is why the boomers are walking all over us. Gen X and Y just shrug, bend over and take it in the ass.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20758419)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 3:16 PM
Author: razzle magenta institution

CP. We need someone to stand up against the Boomers bro? When will it be enough? Boomers throw random issues at us to try to distract us. We fight over racial issues, CGWBTs, and basketball while these boomers are off in their timeshares in Florida riding their Seadoos and drinking margaritas.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20758963)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 1:34 PM
Author: infuriating fragrant school cafeteria

tl;dr: HAHA YOUR FUCKED

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20758451)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 1:45 PM
Author: Bipolar Mischievous Cuckold



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20758528)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 1:37 PM
Author: Titillating blood rage hospital

this is just so fucking depressing... i'm honestly scared for the future

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20758466)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 1:46 PM
Author: infuriating fragrant school cafeteria

leave the country. that's what i'm doing. America has economic issues that can't be fixed and a political environment fed by CNN and Fox that will actively work to make things even worse. we were born at the wrong time, and we're lifelong fucked as Americans. even if there were light at the end of the boomer tunnel, our politicians and society are running in the opposite direction. anyone from our generation reading the news today is like listening to Zed unbuckle his pants while you're bent over with a ball gag in your mouth: you know it's coming, and there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20758539)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:20 PM
Author: Slate coiffed rigpig therapy

this is going to reverberate through every western nation. are you going to go to an already shitty country

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761067)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:23 PM
Author: infuriating fragrant school cafeteria

Australia is calling brother

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761106)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:26 PM
Author: Slate coiffed rigpig therapy

as good as it gets pretty much but still in the thrall of china and therefore the west. i hear china is slowing down.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761131)



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Date: May 24th, 2012 9:29 PM
Author: infuriating fragrant school cafeteria

my logic is this: i expect to make somewhere between $100k and $200k for the next 20 or so years. i want to be in the country that is not going to be forced to tax me to subsidize an enormous population that makes less than that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761165)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:48 PM
Author: Slate coiffed rigpig therapy

so you're a boomer in spirit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761296)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:49 PM
Author: infuriating fragrant school cafeteria

no, i'm not shifting my burden on to someone else because of shitty planning and reckless spending on my part.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761304)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:56 PM
Author: Slate coiffed rigpig therapy

if you believe in progressive taxation, given that you've accrued your advantages in life in u.s. society, then you'd be taking in the form of human capital without returning it

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761349)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 10:00 PM
Author: bateful dragon

people who believe this shit can suck my dick. not sure why you believe the u.s. gave him so much he owes them a large cut of his lifetime earnings.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761373)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 10:02 PM
Author: Slate coiffed rigpig therapy

the society you're born into has everything to do with the talents and skills you develop

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761383)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 10:07 PM
Author: bateful dragon

sure, but the u.s. has gotten to the point that it asks far too much of upper-middle class people in relation to what we get or got

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761428)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 10:10 PM
Author: Slate coiffed rigpig therapy

idk man it's all fucked

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761460)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 1:44 PM
Author: Bipolar Mischievous Cuckold

*is NYTimes *

*changes the subject to gay marriage*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20758522)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 1:45 PM
Author: henna mad-dog skullcap faggotry



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20758534)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 3:08 PM
Author: lake irate dopamine sanctuary



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20758935)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:26 PM
Author: tan stage



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761136)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:00 PM
Author: infuriating fragrant school cafeteria



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20760900)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:27 PM
Author: tan stage

fucking assholes just put all your retirement "savings" into housing and the stock market because ronald reagan or something

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761142)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:29 PM
Author: tan stage

holy shit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011%E2%80%932012_Spanish_protests

list reasons why we can't do this here.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761163)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:59 PM
Author: racy brilliant senate newt

lol what the fuck do they stand for? that's the problem with youngs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761366)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 9:56 PM
Author: swashbuckling base ratface

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2012/05/23/10-10424.pdf

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761351)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 10:05 PM
Author: Elite roast beef

lol well i dunno about that, but isn't it also important to remember where we came from? (aka, our "roots")

yes, they haven't alwasy been able to make the correct financial decisions. but remember, they were raising kids at the same time! (we were those kids, etc).

remember, hopping on the bandwagon is easy if you don't care who you run over!



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761410)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 24th, 2012 10:11 PM
Author: Gold property international law enforcement agency

if the roots are tainted, you gotta yank them out

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1955839&forum_id=2#20761476)