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Boomer higher-ed hypocrisy (WSJ)

GAS. THEM.
laughsome plaza
  08/09/12
link to article?
talented cruise ship voyeur
  08/09/12
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000087239639044424690457757...
ungodly provocative knife brunch
  08/09/12
jesus christ. death panels now. kangaroo courts for these...
ungodly provocative knife brunch
  08/09/12
boomer shitlib prof doesnt mention boomer tuition increases. why
adulterous mood macaca
  08/09/12
Yeah, it's even more infuriating than the article makes it o...
laughsome plaza
  08/09/12
*presses starter* *turns ignition* *fires up the motherf*c...
Supple shrine
  08/09/12
...
ungodly provocative knife brunch
  08/09/12
*guy with dyed undercut, zero * shirt, plaid shirt tied arou...
irradiated sepia dog poop
  08/09/12
*listens to silverchair and uses severed boomer head as a ha...
Supple shrine
  08/09/12
lmao frogstomp silverchair i hope
irradiated sepia dog poop
  08/09/12
honestly you should gas yourself if you're going to pay 60K ...
chrome stock car home
  08/09/12
For us who already knew that things are awful, this should b...
comical property legal warrant
  08/09/12
cr. They are worthless parasitic boomer inventions.
autistic sound barrier spot
  08/09/12
...
ungodly provocative knife brunch
  08/09/12
C FUCKING R. I know so many people who went to OOS state...
Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate
  08/09/12
"I know so many people who went to OOS state unis"...
disrespectful cocky school cafeteria patrolman
  08/09/12
You went to a private college, right? How did you pay for i...
Supple shrine
  08/09/12
loans/parents/large grant. i went to a school that gave me b...
disrespectful cocky school cafeteria patrolman
  08/09/12
Yeah, just curious. All the SUNY schools seem super depress...
Supple shrine
  08/09/12
yeah, it's a shame that none of the SUNYs come close to uva/...
disrespectful cocky school cafeteria patrolman
  08/09/12
it makes total sense when you have a 1) dumb middle class ki...
Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate
  08/09/12
"2) dumb middle class boomer parents who want to put a ...
jade bespoke station messiness
  08/09/12
describe how dumb these people were
Emerald gunner
  08/09/12
some of them were just random upper middle class types who j...
disrespectful cocky school cafeteria patrolman
  08/09/12
"Reduced taxpayer support for higher education" is...
concupiscible casino
  08/09/12
we just need to cap tuition or something or start taxing end...
Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate
  08/09/12
I'm no constitutional scholar, but it seems like capping tui...
Sooty box office affirmative action
  08/09/12
You could somehow tie it to their tax exempt status.
indecent mint tanning salon mediation
  08/09/12
Unis don't have a right to having their students take out lo...
Honey-headed Odious Sanctuary Azn
  08/09/12
Her son didn't have to go to fucking notre dame. plenty of...
flickering submissive laser beams bawdyhouse
  08/09/12
"She says she feels trapped in financial purgatory, bet...
Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate
  08/09/12
she makes a six figure income. i'm sure that she and her hus...
disrespectful cocky school cafeteria patrolman
  08/09/12
what shocks me is that they don't connect this problem to th...
Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate
  08/09/12
Tbf, it is ridiculous how you get massive subsidies on a low...
comical property legal warrant
  08/09/12
the subsidies aren't so massive. most of the time it's just ...
Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate
  08/09/12
Note: she claims to be a FINANCIAL PLANNER.
amber splenetic pocket flask market
  08/09/12
What's going to happen is more parents are going to end up s...
saffron titillating cumskin site
  08/09/12
See my post above. Funneling more money into higher ed is th...
comical property legal warrant
  08/09/12
no, the easiest way is to cap tuition and fees. the general ...
Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate
  08/09/12
tl;dr lazy boomers never saved any money and are shocked...
azure range
  08/09/12


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Date: August 9th, 2012 9:45 AM
Author: laughsome plaza
Subject: GAS. THEM.

******Money quote************************

"The boomers are the first generation shifting the cost of college to their kids," both through increased student borrowing and reduced taxpayer support for higher education, says Susan Dynarski, a professor of education and public policy at the University of Michigan.

*****************************************

Rising college costs and a sagging economy are taking the biggest toll on a surprising group: upper-middle-income families.

According to a Wall Street Journal analysis of recently released Federal Reserve data, households with annual incomes of $94,535 to $205,335 saw the biggest jump in the percentage with student-loan debt from 2007 to 2010, the latest figures available. That group also saw a sharp climb in the amount of debt owed on average.

The surge is leading many such families to look closer at cost and value when choosing colleges. If the new frugality continues, experts say, it could make it difficult for all but the most selective schools to keep pushing through large tuition increases.

For Thomas and Mary Beth Hofmeister of Albany, N.Y., the news in December that their son was accepted to the University of Notre Dame, Ms. Hofmeister's alma mater, was met with equal parts excitement and anxiety. The family's financial-aid package included only a tiny grant, meaning the family will have to sink deep into debt to cover the annual cost of nearly $58,000.

Ms. Hofmeister, an insurance broker and financial planner, says she and her husband, an operations manager, combined earn a six-figure income that puts them in the upper-middle class and were surprised by the amount they will have to borrow. She says she feels trapped in financial purgatory, between "people with lower incomes who have a lot of subsidy, and the truly affluent, for whom this isn't a problem."

The Journal's analysis defined upper-middle-income households as those with annual incomes between the 80th and 95th percentiles of all households nationwide. Among this group, 25.6% had student-loan debt in 2010, up from 19.5% in 2007. For all households, the portion with student loan debt rose to 19.1% in 2010 from 15.2% in 2007.

The amount borrowed by upper-middle-income families, meanwhile, has soared. They owed an average of $32,869 in college loans in 2010, up from $26,639 in 2007, after adjusting for inflation, according to the Journal's analysis.

Borrowing has also increased for lower-income families, but by a smaller amount. Families with lower incomes tend to send their children to lower-cost schools and to cover a greater portion of their costs through financial aid, according to Sallie Mae. The typical low-income family receives grants and scholarships totaling 36% of the cost, the lender says, while for higher-income families such packages total 21%.

The figures put this segment at the heart of a larger trend striking across income groups. More than three million households now owe at least $50,000 in student loans, up from about 794,000 in 2001 and fewer than 300,000 in 1989, after adjusting for inflation.

"There's no doubt that this is a squeeze on a lot of household incomes that many people did not anticipate," says Wells Fargo chief economist John Silvia.

Many well-off families remain willing to dig deep for the most prestigious schools and should be able to handle higher debt loads. The upper-middle-income households now repaying student loans spend just 3.2% of their monthly incomes on debt payments, according to the Journal's analysis, meaning they should have an easier time meeting those obligations than less-affluent families.

Even after adjusting for inflation, the average sticker price of four-year colleges has more than doubled since 1985, according to the College Board. Now there are signs that financial pressures are fostering a greater cost consciousness, even among wealthier families, and an increased focus on value.

According to the Cooperative Institutional Research Program at the University of California at Los Angeles, which surveys more than 200,000 freshmen, the portion of last year's freshmen who said cost was a "very important" factor when picking a college increased by 20.7% since 2007 for students with family incomes of $150,000 or more, the biggest jump for any income group, says John Pryor, the program's director.

Rhonda Ker, a private-college counselor in the Los Angeles area, says some well-off families she works with are now willing to apply to second-tier schools where their total cost can be cut by half. Adds Ms. Ker, "I've been seeing these more realistic calculations and choices, rather than families just going for highest-ranked schools."

Even if the economy rebounds strongly, "this downturn has been long enough and severe enough that, for a generation, it will alter the way families think about price and higher education," says Richard Bischoff, vice president for enrollment management at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. A July 26 report from Moody's Investors Service noted that reductions in net worth, lackluster job growth and stagnant incomes have "created the stiffest tuition price resistance that colleges have faced in decades."

To be sure, some families are turning to loans because they spent heavily or used extra cash to save for retirement. More than one-third of parents with incomes of $95,000 to $125,000 with a child who entered college in 2011 didn't save or invest for that child's education, according to a survey by education consultants Human Capital Research.

But with college costs rising, twin blows from falling home values and the stock market plunge of 2008-09 have sent many families over the edge. On average, upper-middle-income households' median net worth fell 19%, to $369,320, in 2010 from three years earlier, according to Journal calculations.

Robert Bremer, a sales manager, expected college savings to cover two years of tuition for each of his two children, a senior and a freshman. But he says he "lost a lot of paper money" and now only has enough for one year apiece. He plans to borrow to cover the shortfall.

Some well-off households are squeezed because of their preference for costly private colleges. Mary Nucciarone, associate director of financial aid at Notre Dame, says families earning $125,000 to $250,000 pose the biggest challenge for private institutions because "the contributions expected from them are probably higher than what the family is prepared to do."

But public universities also are seeing a shift. At Pennsylvania State University, where tuition has increased 21% over the last five years and state appropriations have fallen by 25%, "we've seen unsubsidized loans skyrocket," says Anna M. Griswold, executive director of the Office of Student Aid, partly because of stepped up borrowing by families that don't qualify for subsidized interest rates.

With their finances strained, some higher-earning parents are making their children pick up more of the tab. Among families earning $100,000 or more, students paid 23% of their college costs in 2012 through loans, income and savings, according to Sallie Mae, up from 14% in 2009; the share covered by parents fell to 52% from 61%.

"The boomers are the first generation shifting the cost of college to their kids," both through increased student borrowing and reduced taxpayer support for higher education, says Susan Dynarski, a professor of education and public policy at the University of Michigan.

Some families are trying to keep debt to a minimum. Laura Casey's daughter initially planned to attend the University of Arizona at Tucson this fall, but instead will work and attend a community college in South Carolina. Her goal is to qualify for in-state tuition at Clemson University and eventually attend medical school. "Her goal is to avoid borrowing," says Ms. Casey. "Even though it's a little painful upfront, it is probably what all of us should do."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295416)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 9:48 AM
Author: talented cruise ship voyeur

link to article?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295423)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2012 9:48 AM
Author: ungodly provocative knife brunch

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444246904577575382576303876.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295425)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2012 9:48 AM
Author: ungodly provocative knife brunch

jesus christ.

death panels now. kangaroo courts for these apes.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295424)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 9:50 AM
Author: adulterous mood macaca
Subject: boomer shitlib prof doesnt mention boomer tuition increases. why

"The boomers are the first generation shifting the cost of college to their kids," both through increased student borrowing and reduced taxpayer support for higher education, says Susan Dynarski, a professor of education and public policy at the University of Michigan.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295432)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 9:51 AM
Author: laughsome plaza

Yeah, it's even more infuriating than the article makes it out, because of course boomers are running the universities in question. I'm guessing the WSJ didn't run with that story because it, too, is run by boomers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295439)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 9:50 AM
Author: Supple shrine

*presses starter*

*turns ignition*

*fires up the motherf*cking guillotines*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295436)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2012 9:52 AM
Author: ungodly provocative knife brunch



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295442)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 9:55 AM
Author: irradiated sepia dog poop

*guy with dyed undercut, zero * shirt, plaid shirt tied around waist and doc martens dropping the guillotine*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295456)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2012 10:23 AM
Author: Supple shrine

*listens to silverchair and uses severed boomer head as a hacky sack*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295543)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2012 10:35 AM
Author: irradiated sepia dog poop

lmao frogstomp silverchair i hope

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295582)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2012 9:59 AM
Author: chrome stock car home

honestly you should gas yourself if you're going to pay 60K to send your cumspawn to UND

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295470)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:01 AM
Author: comical property legal warrant

For us who already knew that things are awful, this should be a little bit encouraging. People are focusing on cost. Smart kids can just start going to cheaper schools and pwning their way up from there. Don't forget that study that showed that your college rank did nothing for your earnings when controlled for SAT and hs GPA.

We should be working fervently toward a paradigm shift. College should be available for next to nothing. Get into that scene from Good Will Hunting when he points out that you can learn all of that crap for free at the library. Well now we also have a little thing called the internet. For example khan academy.

College should cost next to nothing, the cost should only focus on the minimal credentialing function and showing employers that you have learned something and how well you did.

All of these things should die: five year long parties on resort-style campus living, the idea that most people should be full time students and not working, billion dollar campus facilities, armies of admins, etc etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295481)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:02 AM
Author: autistic sound barrier spot

cr. They are worthless parasitic boomer inventions.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295488)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:06 AM
Author: ungodly provocative knife brunch



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295499)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:14 AM
Author: Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate

C FUCKING R.

I know so many people who went to OOS state unis because are public uni didn't have enough of a party/football rep. Such faggotry. Hopefully the generation right below us 14-18 y/o will know better.

But boomer parents deserve most of the blame. They never ask "what kind of job will my kid have." It's all about how nice the dorms/dining halls are, what the student union looks like, and what bumper sticker they can put on their car.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295513)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:21 AM
Author: disrespectful cocky school cafeteria patrolman

"I know so many people who went to OOS state unis"

i'm from ny and know so many people who went to uconn, umass, udel, rhode island, etc. it didn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295539)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:24 AM
Author: Supple shrine

You went to a private college, right? How did you pay for it?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295549)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2012 10:33 AM
Author: disrespectful cocky school cafeteria patrolman

loans/parents/large grant. i went to a school that gave me better options than the SUNY schools, though, and which didn't actually cost much more than SUNY binghamton. i don't think that the OOS schools i mentioned above are any better than binghamton/buffalo/etc in terms of education, jobs, student body and so on.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295571)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:38 AM
Author: Supple shrine

Yeah, just curious. All the SUNY schools seem super depressing for some reason. Even the name SUNY just makes them seem so TTT, even though a couple have decent stats. The system definitely could definitely use a flagship school (preferably with solid D1 sports) for some visibility.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295595)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:43 AM
Author: disrespectful cocky school cafeteria patrolman

yeah, it's a shame that none of the SUNYs come close to uva/umich/just about any of the UCs. most are in god awful depressing areas, especially the true ttts (oneonta, oswego, etc--massive party schools filled with imbeciles).

suny stony brook is actually quite good at the graduate level (very good math/hard science departments). huge commuter school at the undergrad level, though. the founder of renaissance technologies was a profi there and has hired a number of stony brook PhDs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295625)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:25 AM
Author: Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate

it makes total sense when you have a 1) dumb middle class kid who has been indoctrinated by van wilder and other movies, 2) dumb middle class boomer parents who want to put a bumper sticker on their car and think overpaying for college means they've made it.

i knew a (legit poor) girl who went to an OOS flagship because of a specialty program she couldn't get in-state and it worked out really well for her. i knew another guy who went to the same program for business (read: they had a sick bball team) and it was a flop. the latter probably shouldn't have gone to uni at all or should have gone to local CC/state college.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295553)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 11:52 AM
Author: jade bespoke station messiness

"2) dumb middle class boomer parents who want to put a bumper sticker on their car and think overpaying for college means they've made it."

So true, brother

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295989)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:25 AM
Author: Emerald gunner

describe how dumb these people were

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295555)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:35 AM
Author: disrespectful cocky school cafeteria patrolman

some of them were just random upper middle class types who just wanted to party but weren't completely dumb. they seem to have normal account representative type jobs or something. mostly females.

a few also did accounting-->>big 4/regional accounting firm which isn't a bad option, but you could do that from binghamton.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295580)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:24 AM
Author: concupiscible casino

"Reduced taxpayer support for higher education" is code for "we can't end our underfunded pension systems for emeritus professors so we're passing it on to the students until you approve a tax increase for us to perpetuate higher prices."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295550)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:28 AM
Author: Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate

we just need to cap tuition or something or start taxing endowments. it's getting ridiculous. even removing fed loan guarantees and making loans dischargeable in bankruptcy won't solve the problem since parents will just refi their homes or draw from their retirement.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295561)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 11:26 AM
Author: Sooty box office affirmative action

I'm no constitutional scholar, but it seems like capping tuition might be a bit tricky from a legal standpoint.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295819)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 7:33 PM
Author: indecent mint tanning salon mediation

You could somehow tie it to their tax exempt status.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21299439)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 7:42 PM
Author: Honey-headed Odious Sanctuary Azn

Unis don't have a right to having their students take out loans up to cost of attendance.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21299496)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2012 10:34 AM
Author: flickering submissive laser beams bawdyhouse

Her son didn't have to go to fucking notre dame. plenty of SUNY schools in her backyard

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295577)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2012 10:36 AM
Author: Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate

"She says she feels trapped in financial purgatory, between "people with lower incomes who have a lot of subsidy, and the truly affluent, for whom this isn't a problem."

JFC what an asshole. Those lower income kids are struggling to afford ANY college unless they get into an Ivy. This boomer's only problem is that her kid can't go to an overpriced private school that is really popular only because of their dying football program. Just man up and send your kid to SUNY.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295586)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:45 AM
Author: disrespectful cocky school cafeteria patrolman

she makes a six figure income. i'm sure that she and her husband can ramp down their lifestyle to make it happen if they wanted to, but they probably wouldn't want to move from their house to a condo, trade in their cars, and so on.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295632)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:49 AM
Author: Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate

what shocks me is that they don't connect this problem to the larger fucking over of the middle and lower classes on higher ed. this is what people have been dealing with for years now.

her response is like "what? i can't have everything i want without any financial impact whatsoever? when did this happen?"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295648)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:55 AM
Author: comical property legal warrant

Tbf, it is ridiculous how you get massive subsidies on a low income and then completely pwned as soon as you make anything above that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295669)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 11:04 AM
Author: Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate

the subsidies aren't so massive. most of the time it's just eligibilty for moar loans with a higher interest rate than the middle class parents get pulling money from their home equity.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295715)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:54 AM
Author: amber splenetic pocket flask market

Note: she claims to be a FINANCIAL PLANNER.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295665)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:46 AM
Author: saffron titillating cumskin site

What's going to happen is more parents are going to end up saying "we can pay X amount per year. you can go wherever you want, but you'll take out loans for everything over X." I imagine a bunch of posters here will do just that, and they'll be committing the same sin the boomers have by passing debt onto the next generation.

Also, tea partiers, does cutting education still sound like such a great idea?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295635)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 10:54 AM
Author: comical property legal warrant

See my post above. Funneling more money into higher ed is the last thing we should do; it would be idiotic. What we need is a radically different system that can deliver the core value of education at 1/10th of the price -- and there is absolutely no reason this can't be done. How to get there? To me, the best/only way is to completely eliminate government student loans, perhaps by phasing them out over 10 years.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295666)



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Date: August 9th, 2012 11:06 AM
Author: Cerise Out-of-control Stage Karate

no, the easiest way is to cap tuition and fees. the general higher ed market is fundamentally irrational because people are irrational about higher ed. it's a veblen good. if there are no student loans parents will find some other way to get that money.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295724)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2012 11:20 AM
Author: azure range

tl;dr

lazy boomers never saved any money and are shocked, shocked to learn that it will cost them an arm and a leg to send their middling kids to a non-elite, expensive private college

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2018729&forum_id=2#21295784)