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Summer associate here, need advice
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Date: July 25th, 2012 5:50 PM Author: Irradiated cruise ship V50 summer associate here. I've got a problem, which is that I'm fucking slow. A simple 6 page memo might take me 25-30 hours. Part of the problem is that I think my memory is poor; e.g., I'll read one case, forget most of it, read another case, and then be like, "oh, damn, I think that other case might have said something about that too." And then I'll have to re-read the earlier case. And I'm also just a slow writer.
Thing is, my work product is good--I've gotten good feedback on the few assignments I've done; one senior associate called a 5-page memo I did "fantastic." But I feel like I've done way fewer assignments than the other summers and I'm not sure I'll ever have the speed/turnaround ability to do succeed in lit.
Thoughts/advice? |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 5:55 PM Author: Ivory Address Blood Rage shut the fuck up (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174212) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 5:55 PM Author: Irradiated cruise ship what about this question is obnoxious... I'm just asking for perspective from bros in the know (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174217) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 6:06 PM Author: Ivory Address Blood Rage you won't succeed in lit with that sort of pace and that level of shit information management. lit clients will squeeze your billable hours until you are commercially inviable. Enjoy $36k this summer and find a new career. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174318) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 6:16 PM Author: Irradiated cruise ship thanks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174412) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 9:48 PM Author: Lavender Exhilarant Trump Supporter you'll bill more hours than your co-workers and quickly rise to the top. Welcome to big law, where inefficiency is rewarded! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21177110) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 9:54 PM Author: dun property cumskin cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21177207) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:30 PM Author: Misunderstood parlor national security agency This. Your life will suck though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178690) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:51 PM Author: Odious gas station I laffed bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178953) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:29 PM Author: ruddy university people who are hurt you'll probably get faster (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178689) |
Date: July 25th, 2012 5:52 PM Author: Orchid Hissy Fit the tech sector is starting to slow down, international markets are about to burst, and shadow inventory is about to lifepwn housing. you are fucked. get ready to get no offered and or laid off 3 months in (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174191) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 5:55 PM Author: adulterous sexy theatre Take notes.
Cut and paste from cases and slowly form an outline. Write down questions that occur to you for follow up later. |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 6:21 PM Author: Red mother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174457) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 6:49 PM Author: Irradiated cruise ship given what I said in the OP, could I still succeed in corporate?
If not, I need to abandon law b/c I'm BigLaw or bust. |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 9:51 PM Author: marvelous private investor http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=971140&forum_id=2Reputation#11371695 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21177152) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 9:52 PM Author: haunting green hell black woman This is ok. Do not worry about not completing a large volume of assignments for now. Just do the best job you possibly can on everything. However if you actually get out of work then try to seek some out but don't get too much. Try not to turn down any work, but if you absolutely can't get everything done by deadlines it is of course best to raise it in advance rather than blow through a deadline. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21177172) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 9:53 PM Author: dun property cumskin long hours are how we get paid. i'm inefficient and dumb as fuck and NOBODY has said shit about it to me in three years of biglaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21177196) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:32 PM Author: carnelian range dog poop you can't get away with this in midlaw because they'll just cut your hours (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178722) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:28 PM Author: carnelian range dog poop i get being slow but 25-30 hours on a 5 page memo is crazy. do you find the questions difficult or what? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178669) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:34 PM Author: snowy vibrant depressive I don't think this is that unusual for an SA.
Basically learning entirely new areas of law while also learning to use westlaw/lexis efficiently, way over researching things, quadruple-checking bluebooking, etc. and also doing legal writing for the first time.
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:36 PM Author: White pit agreed. i was just barely faster than this at first. my aim now is 1 hour per 14 size font double-spaced page. don't know/care how this stacks up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178764) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:37 PM Author: snowy vibrant depressive formatting also might be a thing. i do 12pt single. If OP is taking that long at 14 double... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178786) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:39 PM Author: White pit you do 12? I did 12 and then i clerked for a 90 year old bro who couldnt read 12 point. I got used to 14 point and now i think 12 point is unreadable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178793) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:39 PM Author: carnelian range dog poop i have never done 14. only 12 or 11 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178804) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:41 PM Author: Irradiated cruise ship OP here. 12 pt single.
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:36 PM Author: carnelian range dog poop idk, i am still learning new areas of law all the time and i can't imagine spending 25-30 hours on a short memo. unless you're told to do this. but doing it out of necessity, i don't get (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178769) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:40 PM Author: Irradiated cruise ship OP here. Yeah, what the other dood said is pretty accurate--unfamiliarity w/ Westlaw, Bluebooking, needing to double-check everything, etc.
Even then, I think I'm slower than most. I can't bullshit for the life of me, so if I'm not 100% sure that something I'm writing is correct AND phrased exactly right, I won't put it down. I'm also probably a bit less intelligent than others but can usually compensate with more cogent writing.
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:41 PM Author: carnelian range dog poop do you mean single-space? i could understand 6 pages single spaced taking that long
there is an easy way not to forget what cases are about anyways |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:41 PM Author: Irradiated cruise ship Yeah, single. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178817) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:41 PM Author: carnelian range dog poop why do u do them single spaced (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178820) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:43 PM Author: Irradiated cruise ship firm format
elaborate on the easy way? |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:45 PM Author: carnelian range dog poop oh i c
just write a few words on the front page of the case to help you remember
for cases you don't print out, do copy with reference for the different points you want to make and place them in the different sections you want them in
and if your problem is just obsessively looking on westlaw, at a certain point you have to stop and just start writing. once you start writing it's easier to go back in to look for cases to fill in certain specific points |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:45 PM Author: Irradiated cruise ship ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178866) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:32 PM Author: White pit one thing i've noticed is that there's very few things that haven't already been written -- especially if you're in a big state or are working on federal work. Just find a case on point, find the brief/motion thats aligned with your interests, and copy and paste. bill 4.2 hours then 3.1 hours then 6.3 hours. label it as researching and writing x portion of y assignment. check xo. call a friend. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178729) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:34 PM Author: White pit also, you'll get faster. no one expects you to be efficient. they expect you to work hard and turn in good work and work on the efficiency part. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178740) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:40 PM Author: Trip Disrespectful Orchestra Pit Toilet Seat When I finish reading a case, I put in bullet format the usefulness of the case. Example: (1) Addresses the issue of attorney-client privilege and crime-fraud exception; (2) _____
This helps me to quickly reference materials while writing and avoid having to figure out why I printed a certain case.
Also, if you are facing multiple issues. Be sure to organize your cases according to the issues. You don't want to have just one pile containing all of your cases. Create one pile for issue X, issue Y, etc. If you have a case that overlaps, just print out the first page and put "found in other pile" on the first page reproduction. I only use this if I have a huge ass fucking memo.
If you have an outline, be sure to start placing the case name as support for that particular bullet. |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:42 PM Author: Irradiated cruise ship ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178824) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:48 PM Author: alcoholic exciting parlour lol at reading an entire case. If someone hasn't done a note in a bar journal, a summary with analysis in a blog or a law review article on it for you why are you citing it? These days there are so many blogs and so many asshat partners who do nothing more than read every appellate case in their practice area and post about it that you should NEVER have to read a whole case yourself.
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:49 PM Author: carnelian range dog poop i like to look at the original source
that said i rarely read the whole case. i skip to the relevant parts |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:53 PM Author: Odious gas station I'm a 5th year and a partner asked me the other day how it took me 80 hours to write a fairly simple MSJ. I responded, "because the client pays their bills." Aw man, did we both laugh and laugh. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178987) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:55 PM Author: carnelian range dog poop is this a big law thing. the partners i work for are really mindful of being efficient for the client (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179014) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:58 PM Author: Odious gas station They are only pretending because you are a summer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179050) |
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Date: July 25th, 2012 11:58 PM Author: carnelian range dog poop i'm not a summer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179058) |
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Date: July 26th, 2012 12:00 AM Author: Odious gas station Oh, are you at a midlaw firm or something where you have to be cost competitive? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179094) |
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Date: July 26th, 2012 12:01 AM Author: carnelian range dog poop yeah lol. my hours get cut too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179115) |
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Date: July 26th, 2012 12:00 AM Author: lascivious community account The thing that's going to fuck you isn't your speed/inefficiency, it's that you can't recall shit. I've found that people always want updates. You need to organize your work in a way such that you can answer questions from the more senior attorneys when they call you out of the blue and ask something about what you're working on. Other than that you'll be ok. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179098) |
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Date: July 26th, 2012 12:02 AM Author: Odious gas station I have a shiTTYy memory, but I avoid the update situation by using email to give unsolicited updates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179143) |
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Date: July 26th, 2012 12:05 AM Author: razzle sapphire stage prole Wouldn't worry about this in biglaw (boutiques and midlaw are a different story). It takes some repetition to figure out how to achieve the right balance between understanding/accuracy and speed. It also takes some time to reduce paranoia from a level at which you proofread emails to partners/clients 20 times to something slightly more manageable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179177) |
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Date: July 26th, 2012 12:06 AM Author: carnelian range dog poop yeah if it's not biglaw, the partners will just cut your hours, lol and will expect you to make it up (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179188) |
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Date: July 26th, 2012 12:07 AM Author: Twinkling Station you're going to fail the bar and none of the above are relevant (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179202) |