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COA Clerk, Former Dist. Clerk Taking ?? For a Bit
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:31 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard I'm around for a bit if anyone has questions about clerking, applications, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14037973) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:35 PM Author: pungent ape Any general thoughts on clerking for a magistrate judge in a big district? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038011) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:37 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard I've never clerked for a magistrate, but I've known several magistrate clerks. They all seemed to enjoy their clerkships. I'm not sure how other districts utilize their magistrates, but in the district I clerked in last year, the district court judges generally let the magistrates handle suppression hearings, rearraignments, settlement conferences, and a few other preliminary hearings. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038031) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:43 PM Author: demanding irradiated box office What are your basic stats? How many interviews/offers did you receive? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038077) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:48 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard T14 law school. Probably around top 10-15% (school doesn't rank). The first year of applications I interiewed with one COA judge, two district court judges, and two state supreme court judges. I got a rejected from the COA clerkship and the same day got and accepted the district court clerkship. The second year applying I interviewed with four COA judges. One rejection, and then accepted an offer before hearing from the other two. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038123) |
Date: February 6th, 2010 10:44 PM Author: hot heaven elastic band 0L here. do UG majors matter? how about work experience between UG and LS? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038083) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:49 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard As far as I know, my two judges don't even know (or care) about what I majored in. However, significant college activities and work experience between undergrad and law school came up in every interview. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038134) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:52 PM Author: hot heaven elastic band what kind of work experience would be beneficial? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038162) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:58 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Frankly, I'm not really sure. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038220) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:06 PM Author: hot heaven elastic band so do you think just having work experience is good enough in the sense that it gives you something to talk about during interviews? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038291) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:09 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Sure. It's not going to hurt you. If its something interesting it'll probably be brought up in an interview. The judges are trying to get a picture of who you are as a person during the interviews, because they want someone they think will fit well in the chambers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038312) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:44 PM Author: Yellow gunner was your DC clerkship in the western US? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038084) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:50 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Why? Not that that could out me, but what does it matter? Are you asking because you are paticularly interested in a certain western district? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038142) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:51 PM Author: Yellow gunner i'm taking a flier that I might know who you are.
is your COA clerkship in the ninth circuit? |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:55 PM Author: Yellow gunner did you go to BYU for LS? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038192) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:01 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Sorry, but you're barking up the wrong tree here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038246) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:02 PM Author: Yellow gunner lol i know exactly who you are (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038257) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:47 PM Author: Alcoholic Garrison Is there a point in clerking if I've already got a summer spot at my top choice firm? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038116) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:53 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard If your goal from clerking is just to land a job at your top firm, then no, it's probably not worth it for you. However, clerking can be a pretty awesome experience. You get to work on a lot of very interesting (as well as plenty of boring) legal issues, the pay is decent, the hours are good, and you can learn a ton from your judge and from observing the attorneys who practice before your judge. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038163) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:49 PM Author: Metal field reading party advice for 2Ls? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038128) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:53 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Need to be a little more specific than that. General advice would be to keep getting good grades and get to kno a few professors really well so that you can ask them for good letters of recommendation.
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Date: February 6th, 2010 10:57 PM Author: Alcoholic Garrison More valuable to be an articles editor for the primary journal or gunning for good grades (also in a small class for a letter of rec)...assuming not enough time in the semester to do both? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038208) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:00 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard If you really couldn't manage both, then definitely work to get good grades. Grades are the gateway to getting noticed in the huge stack of applications. If your grades are not sufficient, your application probably won't even be read. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038233) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:05 PM Author: Alcoholic Garrison Thanks! Also, what about applying early before the whole plan thing...how do i do that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038283) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:07 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard First, you need to figure out which judges are not on the plan. Second, you need to figure out if your school will give you any assistance if you apply off plan. Some schools won't allow professors to send letters of recommendation for students applying off plan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038298) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:45 PM Author: overrated french nursing home What are my chances at going from a state trial court clerkship (large city) to a federal district court in that same city? T20, top 1-2%, LR, published. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038717) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:51 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Not really sure how often someone goes from state trial court to federal district court clerkship. However, your previous experience won't hurt and your states are good enough to at least get district court interviews. Good luck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038804) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:54 PM Author: overrated french nursing home Yeah you'd think those stats would be good enough to get interviews, but they weren't this year (not even one). Granted, I was stupid and didn't apply as broadly as I should have. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038833) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:22 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Yeah, those stats are generally good enough to get at least one interview. Try again and apply more broadly. Best of luck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14039059) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:04 AM Author: pearl multi-colored shitlib (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038920) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:29 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Thanks. I started writing on here back in September because I noticed there was a lot of misinformation on here about clerkships.
1) If you one of the top 5 students at a T50-100, you may have a chance to get an interview with the COA judge in your area. A lot of judges like to take one of the top students from a local law school. Your district court clerkship will help. I always recommend applying broadly, but in your case, the judges closest to your law school will likely be your best bet.
2) Not sure if your current unemployment will be a big deal. I know my COA judge is very in tune with how bad the job market is now and definitely wouldn't look down on someone who did well in law school but can't find employment.
3) Publishing is always a good idea. Also, if you are doing pro bono work, see if you can get any federal cases.
4) Unless you know that a certain judge you're interested in is reviewing (not just accepting) applications now, wait until late May or early June to apply. Judge's chambers are not like HR departments. There is a lot to do and the last thing judges like to be bothered with is thinking about hiring clerks a year and a half out.
Good luck. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:34 AM Author: pearl multi-colored shitlib Thanks! I am hoping the district court clerkship helps me. What do you think about in terms of my cover letter? In your experience is it better to have a long or short cover letter. If longer one is preferred, what do you think is the best way to express my interest in second clerkship/COA clerkship? Anything that I should make sure I include?
Thanks again |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:39 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard I know that my COA judge has expressed his disappointment that too many people have very basic cover letters which basically just tell him what is in in the application packet.
I would recommend a letter explaining why you want to clerk at the COA level, why for him/her, and why you think you are qualified for this position.
Also, I would recommend sending paper applications rather than OSCAR if you are applying early. OSCAR applications can sit in an inbox for a long time and are very easy to quickly delete. In my experience, paper applications from grads are at least looked at whereas OSCAR applications may not be. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:46 AM Author: pearl multi-colored shitlib In terms of being noticed, what is the process to hire a clerk? I mean are you told to look at specific schools or a specific percent of the class or some mixture of both? When I used OSCAR to apply in the past I have always felt that my applications might never have been viewed, so I was planning on applying early and sending all judges paper applications.
I think that might be everything I can think of for now. Thanks again!
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:51 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard No problem. I'm glad to have the chance to pass on some good advice.
Yes, unless a judge specifically requests only OSCAR applications, I would send them all via USPS. The one down side to this (besides the cost) is that it's a pain to ask recommenders to constantly have to send new applications. Send applications out in waves to avoid overburdening your recommenders (not one at a time).
As for how the clerks assist in hiring, it seems to totally depend on the judge. This year, we culled the stack of several hundred down to about 50 or 60 (we were not given a specific number) and then the judge selected from that bunch who he wanted to interview. Beyond the initial cuts, we had no input in the process. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:01 AM Author: Lemon vengeful antidepressant drug Interesting. Did you judge give you guidance on how to narrow down the applicants, and if so, what was it?
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:10 AM Author: Naked indian lodge macaca do you have any advice for interview preparation with a CoA judge? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038962) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:32 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Have good answers to the basic questions about why you went to law school, why you want to clerk, why you want to clerk in that city, for that judge, etc. If you get an interview, try e-mailing former clerks. They usually have a pretty good insight on what type of person the judge is looking for.
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:12 AM Author: wine vibrant gaping How do you like using Lotus and wordperfect? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038981) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:30 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Lotus is fine. I had never used Word Perfect before, but I actually like it better than Word now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14039145) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:13 AM Author: Godawful marketing idea school cafeteria (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14038990) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:46 AM Author: translucent gaming laptop how r teh dynamics between u and ur coclerks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14039320) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:47 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Fine. We all like each other and work well together. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14039338) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:49 AM Author: translucent gaming laptop what r ur thoughts on illegal reentry cases (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14039364) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:56 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Not exactly sure what you're looking for here, but illegal reentry make up a big percentage of the immigration cases and immigration cases make up a big percentage of stuff all the Courts of Appeals deal with (because it comes on petition from the BIA). Frankly, most cases are pretty indistinguishable. 9.9 times out of 10 the government wins. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14039429) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:03 AM Author: translucent gaming laptop illegal reentries are crim. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14039493) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:51 AM Author: razzle-dazzle hell about to start a district court clerkship in the fall, wondering if there are other options for finding a post-clerkship job besides just sending resumes? interested in firm job in a different circuit then clerkship, but would consider something like DOJ/FTC. Also wondering about the timing. Clerkship is one year but judge usually will allow a clerk to stay on for an additional year if first goes well but would prefer to have something lined up during first year.... appreciate the help. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14039377) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:54 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Congratulations on your district court clerkship. I'm not in a great position to discuss job searching as a district court clerk, because I had my COA clerkship lined up before I began. My best advice would be to discuss this with your career services at your law school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14039412) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:03 AM Author: razzle-dazzle hell oh right those ppl...they've been pretty useless in past interactions but i'll see if they have any insight on this. I was under the impression that there are or were some recruitment programs geared toward clerks or some avenue for fed clerks to transition to other government jobs. will keep looking, thanks for the Q&A (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14039498) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:02 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard I'm done for the night. If I get some free time soon I'll get back on to answer questions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14039477) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 7:53 PM Author: Excitant misanthropic mediation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14047336) |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 10:57 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard I've got some time tonight if anyone has questions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072054) |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:04 PM Author: Carmine greedy church building can i apply pre-plan as a rising 3L? it would be nice to snag something this summer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072149) |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:08 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Some judges hire off the plan. You need to check to see which do. Make sure to check with your law school to see what, if anything, will happen if you apply to these judges. Some law schools won't allow professors to send recommendations before the plan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072200) |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:13 PM Author: Carmine greedy church building how broadly should i apply?
top 5-10% Mich, LR, probably mediocre LORs. |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:16 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard I always recommend applying as broadly as you can. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072305) |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:21 PM Author: Carmine greedy church building do i have any shot at COA or will the competition be too stiff this year? i'm going to apply to both dist. and coa but i'm not sure if i'll even have a shot at coa. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072371) |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:24 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard You definitely have a shot at COA, but I would apply to both district court and COA if I were you.
According to one of the permanent clerks, the idea that this last year was any more competitive than previous years is not really accurate. Yes, more people applied, but the number of highly qualified applicants who are likely to land an interview did not really change. The reason is probably that highly qualified applicants always apply. Adding a whole bunch of lesser qualified applicants doesn't necessarily make the process more competitive. |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:28 PM Author: Carmine greedy church building this makes sense. there's a fixed number of top 10% every year. most of these people probably apply. the ones who wouldn't have applied in a good economy probably didn't apply because they went to stable firms and have no interest in clerking.
however, last year would have had perhaps more highly qualified people applying because they got no-offered. but i doubt this led to a huge spike in qualified applicants. |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:32 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Exactly. According to the permanent clerk, if we normally would have received 50 highly competive applications for 10 or so interview slots (for 4 clerkships), the number last years may have jumped to 60 or so. However, the total number of applications we received went up probably by two-thirds or more.
The permanent clerk I'm referencing is not in my chambers, but I imagine the trends she saw in their chambers were similar to the trends we saw in ours. |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:04 PM Author: pearl multi-colored shitlib There is a poast on here regarding whether applicants should submit a one or two page resume. What are your thoughts on this subject? Should I include a second page that goes into detail on prior law school activities or include other general interests? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072155) |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:10 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard I saw that thread and thought about commenting on it the other day.
Use your discretion. Resumes that go onto a second page are fine if you have enough legitimate stuff to put on your resume. I often see two-page resumes when an applicant has several publications or has significant work experience.
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:06 PM Author: Excitant misanthropic mediation Thoughts on this?
I'm a 3L, and I have a district clerkship lined up for next year. I have an offer from my summer firm. I'm debating whether to apply for 2011 circuit court clerkships. My profs have connections to some good judges. I have some student loans, so I'd like to get to biglaw sooner rather than later. And my ultimate goal is biglaw - I have no interest in teaching. Do you think the COA credential is valuable enough in biglaw that it is worth clerking for another year?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1217225&forum_id=2#14064166)
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:12 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard If your ultimate goal is biglaw and you already have that lined up for after your district court clerkship, then a COA clerkship might not be for you. However, it is a great experience, you learn a ton, and the hours are great. It's really a pretty awesome year (assuming you clerk for a judge that doesn't expect biglaw hours for clerk pay). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072245) |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:13 PM Author: Excitant misanthropic mediation Do you think that having a COA clerkship is a boost for biglaw exit options (like in-house or gov jobs)? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072270) |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:17 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard I'm really not in a great position to give advice on that. Perhaps one of the other COA clerks or former clerks that are around can give you a good answer on this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072318) |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 7:47 AM Author: Soul-stirring Slate Lettuce Not sure if there are many of us here who can actually answer that question from experience. My guess (repeat, guess) is that it would help for government jobs. It probably helps less for in house stuff. From what I hear, in house stuff is mainly about connections. (It's also worth noting that there aren't that many in house litigation counsel jobs.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14075385) |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:07 PM Author: chocolate dashing area Do you have a feeder or feeder quality judge in chambers? If so, how is the dynamic between his/her clerks and the prole non-feeder COA clerks? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072184) |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:15 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard My judge has clerks go on to clerk on the Supreme Court, but not regularly and would likely not be considered a "feeder" judge. As far as I can tell he is nice to other judge's clerks.
There are some judges in the circuit that are feeders, and they seem to be nice enough to other judge's clerks. This is kind of hard to gauge though, because there really isn't really any regular interaction between clerks and other judges. Mostly clerks interact with their own judges. |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:58 PM Author: Submissive odious hall I think he was talking about clerk-clerk interactions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072940) |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:00 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Good point. I'm doing several things at once, so I'm not paying full attention.
As far as I can tell the clerks all seem to get along well. I haven't noticed any awkwardness or anything between clerks with a shot at SCOTUS and those with no shot. |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:25 PM Author: spruce charismatic sanctuary feces Is it possible to do a Dist. Ct. clerkship after law school, work at a firm, and then do a COA clerkship, or do judges frown upon this?
Assume that the person has pretty solid grades and would have been fairly competitive for a non-feeder COA immediately after law school. |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:29 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard I know of at least one person who did this. I'm not sure how common it is, but it's not impossible.
I don't know how long she practiced between her district court and COA clerkships, but I think it was only a year or two. She also had grades that would have made her competitive for non-feeder COA judges immediately after law school or her district court clerkship. She had a good district court clerkship (SDNY, DDC, NDCA, etc) so this likely gave her a nice boost too. |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:31 PM Author: Excitant misanthropic mediation Is it really significantly harder to get onto 2, 9, and DC, as many on this board imply, or does it vary by judge? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072540) |
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Date: February 9th, 2010 11:37 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard I really don't know. I think it has more to do with the judge. There are obviously judges like Gorsuch, Sutton, and Wilkinson who are significantly more competitive than many of the non-feeder judges on the 2d and 9th Cir.
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Date: February 10th, 2010 7:48 AM Author: Soul-stirring Slate Lettuce Yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14075387) |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:00 AM Author: Submissive odious hall Were you on LR? Ed board? Secondary journal? Your stats post above was unclear. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14072977) |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:01 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Secondary journal editorial board. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14073001) |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:06 AM Author: Submissive odious hall Interesting. Would you do it again? I'm considering LR ed board right now.
How much do you think connections matter in clerkship hiring? In other words, is there some equivalent GPA bump that you'd guess you'd get if someone who knew the judge well called on your behalf? |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:14 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard I liked editorial board because I liked helping steer the direction of the journal. I was able to maintain good grades, and I enjoyed the experience, so I would do it again.
I'm sure connections matter a lot for some judges. I didn't have any particular connections with any of the judges I interviewed with, so I'm really not sure how much of a bump you would get. |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:05 AM Author: Exhilarant Angry Electric Furnace Subject: Thanks for taking Qs 1) If one has credentials stellar enough to look only at CoA judges the first time around, would there be any benefit to still doing D. court - > CoA? It sounds kind of cool. Does it make it easier to get the CoA clerkship? I guess I'm just sort of unsure what the difference in qualifications / mindset there is between LS - > CoA and LS - > D. Court -> CoA types.
2) Is there a point past which grades get fuzzy and 'soft' factors more important, or do #1-5 in a class do better than #10-15?
3) What's it like applying with other people from the same school? My LS has lots of talking about clerkships, but since a relatively small portion of the class is even qualified, is there a lot of cross talk / bumping elbows / competition? Do you basically all wind up knowing who's who and who's applying to what? |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:13 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Thanks.
1) I think it is beneficial to do a district court clerkship first, but it is certainly not a must for being a good COA clerk. They are both very different experiences during which you learn different things. I've really enjoyed both. I know several people who have gone COA to district court and they've enjoyed that too.
2) Frankly, when it gets down to that small group of highly qualified applicants who might get an interview, grades are pretty irrelevant. If you didn't have stellar grades you wouldn't be in that small final group. At that point soft factors seem to be a big deal.
3) I applied to and interviewed with judges who received applications from my classmates. Honestly, I didn't really think about it that much. They had interviews, I had mine, and most of us ended up with something we were happy with. Don't let that kind of stuff get to you. |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:22 AM Author: Exhilarant Angry Electric Furnace Subject: Thanks, really appreciate the info Could you speak about interactions with profs leading up to asking for recs? If you've got good grades, does it make sense to hang out with professors? Do they sort of know what's up and expect the top of the class to just start dropping in and saying 'hey hey hey'?
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:24 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Helping a professor out with research (either as an official or unofficial RA) is a good way to get to know professors and to hopefully get a good rec. I'm not sure how much getting a good grade and stopping by will get you. You don't want just a generic letter saying so and so got one of the top grades. That tells the judge nothing he can't see from your transcript. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14073255) |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 7:50 AM Author: Soul-stirring Slate Lettuce RA'ing is the best. If you don't have the chance to RA for three profs, you can talk to them after class or get involved in an organization that they're involved in. For example, if your copyrights professor is also the head of the law and arts society, you can get involved in that. But RA'ing is still the best idea.
For one prof, you can have them be your faculty advisor for your note. |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 7:56 AM Author: Soul-stirring Slate Lettuce 1) It depends on what you want to do. You really don't need to clerk for two years if all you want to do is biglaw. In most cases, I'd recommend figuring out which level you want to clerk at more and clerking only at that one level. That also gives you a nice out if you end up hating your biglaw job, since you can always clerk at the other level after a year or two. But there are some exceptions--maybe it makes sense to clerk for two years if you want to go into academia or government.
2) This is one of those unanswerable questions, since judges don't have some formula that they stick all your credentials into, and every judge is different. But no. 1 in the class does markedly better than everyone else, and 2-5 do better than 10-15, at least to the extent that it's possible to tell 2-5 from 10-15.
3) Everyone kinda knows who is applying where, especially if you're on law review. |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:08 AM Author: Excitant misanthropic mediation Clerkship applicants who get interviews probably have the necessary stats/recommendations. What have you seen applicants do during interviews that cause them to either get an offer or get dinged? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14073067) |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:09 AM Author: Submissive odious hall cq (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14073084) |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:18 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard In general, it seems like the less stressed out you are the better chances you have of getting an interview. The point of the interview is for the judge to get know you to see if he'd like to work with you for an entire year. If you are nervous and stressed, its hard for a judge to get to know the real you. At least in my chambers, if he doesn't feel like he really got to know you during your interview, then you won't get an offer.
Stats, recommendations, grades, etc. are all pretty irrelevant once you get to the interview. At that point, the judge chooses on who he thinks will work best within whatever type of chambers dynamics he likes.
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:20 AM Author: Excitant misanthropic mediation Thanks. Do the opinions of your judge's current clerks matter much in the decision? |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:22 AM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Eh, not really. He asks if we have any opinions, but we really don't have that much interaction with the interviewees. At the end of the day, he choses whoever he wants. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14073224) |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 12:38 AM Author: Excitant misanthropic mediation Does your judge routinely socialize with his clerks? (have lunch together, etc.) Or is it a stricter employer/employee relationship? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14073407) |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 7:51 AM Author: Soul-stirring Slate Lettuce We did. Some judges are better about this than others. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14075392) |
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Date: February 10th, 2010 11:22 PM Author: aqua boltzmann gay wizard Definitely depends on the judge. My district court judge had a more partner-associate relationship with his clerks. My COA judge has a more collegial relationship with his clerks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214601&forum_id=2#14083346) |