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SDNY judge Ho won't dismiss Adams case; asks Clement to argue for continuation

https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-declines-immediately-dismis...
Amethyst heady prole toilet seat
  02/21/25
why does he need to hire outside counsel are his law cler...
arousing meetinghouse
  02/21/25
this happens occasionally. maybe some fed court masterman ca...
Mildly Autistic Crimson Windowlicker
  02/21/25
does Clement do it pro bono or do taxpayers pay for his time...
Amethyst heady prole toilet seat
  02/21/25
i highly, highly doubt he does it pro bono
Mildly Autistic Crimson Windowlicker
  02/21/25
i bet it is pro bono
Motley wine gas station
  02/21/25
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbsWuBqUkAAUdfQ.jpg
arousing meetinghouse
  02/21/25
i mean, you probably know better than me. one could think of...
Mildly Autistic Crimson Windowlicker
  02/21/25
it should be pro bono im guessing. court can appoint any mem...
Motley wine gas station
  02/21/25
He's doing the Tony Soprano move so Adams can't hire Clement
Bat Shit Crazy Hissy Fit Resort
  02/21/25
he should hire murphy and have them duke it out
arousing meetinghouse
  02/21/25
this happened in the flynn dismissal iirc. he's not hiri...
Exhilarant salmon locale
  02/21/25
I was right. Gleason was appointed in the Flynn case for the...
Exhilarant salmon locale
  02/21/25
this should basically be a ministerial act. the prosecuting ...
Motley wine gas station
  02/21/25
dats not how it works saar
Multi-colored infuriating church chad
  02/21/25
processing the dismissal is considered a ministerial act in ...
Motley wine gas station
  02/21/25
(xo 2025
Passionate Parlour Dragon
  02/21/25
I read this as "this should be a minstrel act" and...
anal theater
  02/21/25
should be. but the USDC refused in the case of General Fl...
Amethyst heady prole toilet seat
  02/21/25
Doctor of Law here, no idea how the furking USDC judge can j...
Multi-colored infuriating church chad
  02/21/25
LJl Judge HO is ex-ACLU and a Chink from HELLOSIRLAND Sor...
Multi-colored infuriating church chad
  02/21/25
Adams needs to file a motion to strike dis Ho
Hairraiser university
  02/21/25
...
anal theater
  02/21/25
...
light nubile church building
  02/21/25
...
Amethyst heady prole toilet seat
  02/21/25
motion in lemonade
arousing meetinghouse
  02/21/25
...
talking station
  02/21/25
...
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  03/09/25
Judge Ho has no "Personal" section on Wiki, odd ca...
Multi-colored infuriating church chad
  02/21/25
Why would Clement agree to do this? There's no way he actua...
Fantasy-prone center national security agency
  02/21/25
lawyers all the time have to make the best possible case in ...
Exhilarant salmon locale
  02/21/25
Because it's not based?
Maniacal Hall
  02/21/25
based in what?
Exhilarant salmon locale
  02/21/25
Because he's probably not getting paid $3k/hour for this. B...
Fantasy-prone center national security agency
  02/21/25
sure to dumb normies it'll legitimize the argument by attach...
Exhilarant salmon locale
  02/21/25
Blackman argues below that Clement previously filed a brief ...
Amethyst heady prole toilet seat
  02/22/25
Does "continue" mean put on hold, in the law talk ...
Splenetic bronze karate
  02/21/25
damn, Pam Bimbo can't even dismiss her own case.
rambunctious misanthropic set
  02/21/25
https://reason.com/volokh/2025/02/21/judge-hos-decision-to-a...
Amethyst heady prole toilet seat
  02/22/25
Thanks I really wanted to know where weirdo-right-wing-idiot...
the walter white of this generation (walt jr.)
  03/09/25
LJL
rambunctious misanthropic set
  02/22/25
Clement's brief: dismiss the whole fucking thing, Your Honor...
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  03/09/25
Rethuglican attorney protecting Rethuglican POTUS (convicted...
"""'"'"""''
  03/09/25
remember when McCabe got a sweetheart deal once Biden took o...
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  03/09/25
lol, literally though
internet g0y
  03/09/25
*with prejudice
the place where there is no darkness
  03/09/25
not a crim bro and i'm obviously retarded, but isn't it tota...
kendrick lamar
  03/09/25
No, the fed crim rules expressly say that the court has the ...
Wang Hernandez
  03/09/25
... unless it's a Republican dropping the charges and it's a...
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  03/09/25
https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/1f562893...
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  03/09/25
INTRODUCTION AND SUMMARY OF ARGUMENT Since their adoption i...
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
  03/09/25


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:27 PM
Author: Amethyst heady prole toilet seat

https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-declines-immediately-dismiss-eric-175603399.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682240)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:29 PM
Author: arousing meetinghouse

why does he need to hire outside counsel

are his law clerks not good enough

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682248)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:31 PM
Author: Mildly Autistic Crimson Windowlicker

this happens occasionally. maybe some fed court masterman can enlighten us as to the judge's strategy here

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682256)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:31 PM
Author: Amethyst heady prole toilet seat

does Clement do it pro bono or do taxpayers pay for his time?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682258)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:32 PM
Author: Mildly Autistic Crimson Windowlicker

i highly, highly doubt he does it pro bono

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682260)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:33 PM
Author: Motley wine gas station

i bet it is pro bono

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682265)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:34 PM
Author: arousing meetinghouse

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbsWuBqUkAAUdfQ.jpg

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682270)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:37 PM
Author: Mildly Autistic Crimson Windowlicker

i mean, you probably know better than me. one could think of a few reasons why Paul C. would do this pro bono

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682287)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:33 PM
Author: Motley wine gas station

it should be pro bono im guessing. court can appoint any member of that bar as counsel in any case.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682263)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:35 PM
Author: Bat Shit Crazy Hissy Fit Resort

He's doing the Tony Soprano move so Adams can't hire Clement

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682275)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:35 PM
Author: arousing meetinghouse

he should hire murphy and have them duke it out

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682277)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 2:03 PM
Author: Exhilarant salmon locale

this happened in the flynn dismissal iirc.

he's not hiring outside counsel. he's essentially appointing an amicus

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682402)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 4:29 PM
Author: Exhilarant salmon locale

I was right. Gleason was appointed in the Flynn case for the exact same role that clement will serve in this case. This isn’t unprecedented

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682898)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:32 PM
Author: Motley wine gas station

this should basically be a ministerial act. the prosecuting party says dismiss so you let the clerk process the dismissal.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682259)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:38 PM
Author: Multi-colored infuriating church chad

dats not how it works saar

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682290)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:40 PM
Author: Motley wine gas station

processing the dismissal is considered a ministerial act in civil cases. for crim yea im sure its a different standard.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682295)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:43 PM
Author: Passionate Parlour Dragon

(xo 2025

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682314)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:45 PM
Author: anal theater

I read this as "this should be a minstrel act" and I nodded my head

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682325)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:48 PM
Author: Amethyst heady prole toilet seat

should be.

but the USDC refused in the case of General Flynn and this USDC is refusing too.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682341)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:34 PM
Author: Multi-colored infuriating church chad

Doctor of Law here, no idea how the furking USDC judge can just appoint a furking SC lolyer who prob charges $3k an hour to represent the opp of govt argument. He does this pro bono? Or the govt gives him some per diem shit rate of $200? Just rofl at this nigga shit, its a NOWAG move, real men wld just make a decision, he already knows what to think wtf does he need opp arguments. What a silly HO

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682268)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:40 PM
Author: Multi-colored infuriating church chad

LJl Judge HO is ex-ACLU and a Chink from HELLOSIRLAND

Sorry Sir we cannot dismiss sir right now sir but we have Hansome Paul looking into it sir, thank you sir!

Ho was born in 1977 in San Jose, California to immigrants to the United States from the Philippines.[3][2] He received his Bachelor of Arts in political philosophy, summa cum laude, from Princeton University in 1999 with membership in Phi Beta Kappa. He then received his Juris Doctor from Yale Law School in 2005.[2][4]

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682296)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:42 PM
Author: Hairraiser university

Adams needs to file a motion to strike dis Ho

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682309)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:46 PM
Author: anal theater



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682327)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 2:05 PM
Author: light nubile church building



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682405)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 3:22 PM
Author: Amethyst heady prole toilet seat



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682662)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 3:40 PM
Author: arousing meetinghouse

motion in lemonade

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682739)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 4:35 PM
Author: talking station



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682919)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 9th, 2025 7:01 PM
Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,




(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48731355)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 1:42 PM
Author: Multi-colored infuriating church chad

Judge Ho has no "Personal" section on Wiki, odd case

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dale_Ho

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682310)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 2:14 PM
Author: Fantasy-prone center national security agency

Why would Clement agree to do this? There's no way he actually believes a judge can prevent DOJ from dismissing a criminal case.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682435)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 2:16 PM
Author: Exhilarant salmon locale

lawyers all the time have to make the best possible case in what is obviously a losing battle. how is this any different?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682440)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 2:16 PM
Author: Maniacal Hall

Because it's not based?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682443)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 2:16 PM
Author: Exhilarant salmon locale

based in what?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682444)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 2:25 PM
Author: Fantasy-prone center national security agency

Because he's probably not getting paid $3k/hour for this. By attaching his name he's legitimizing the argument and making SCOTUS less likely to summarily reverse.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682472)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 2:40 PM
Author: Exhilarant salmon locale

sure to dumb normies it'll legitimize the argument by attaching his name to it, but any legal scholar will understand that that lawyers all the time have to do the best they can to argue untenable positions while still staying within the ethnical bounds

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682509)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 22nd, 2025 12:53 PM
Author: Amethyst heady prole toilet seat

Blackman argues below that Clement previously filed a brief saying exactly that.

but it's just not clear what viewpoint Clement is supposed to espouse. in the normal case of an appointment the lawyer is supposed to argue on behalf of a holding expressed below. here?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48684563)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 3:08 PM
Author: Splenetic bronze karate

Does "continue" mean put on hold, in the law talk sense, or does it mean keep it going, in the regular, everyday sense?

If the latter, can the judge appoint a special prosecutor to prosecute the case?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682616)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 21st, 2025 3:09 PM
Author: rambunctious misanthropic set

damn, Pam Bimbo can't even dismiss her own case.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48682623)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 22nd, 2025 12:48 PM
Author: Amethyst heady prole toilet seat

https://reason.com/volokh/2025/02/21/judge-hos-decision-to-appoint-paul-clement-in-united-states-v-adams/

Josh Blackman with some rando thoughts about it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48684541)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 9th, 2025 7:51 PM
Author: the walter white of this generation (walt jr.)

Thanks I really wanted to know where weirdo-right-wing-idiot constituency falls on this one, and to my knowledge sealclubber hasn’t poasted ITT.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48731522)



Reply Favorite

Date: February 22nd, 2025 12:48 PM
Author: rambunctious misanthropic set

LJL

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48684544)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 9th, 2025 6:19 PM
Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Clement's brief: dismiss the whole fucking thing, Your Honor.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48731198)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 9th, 2025 6:21 PM
Author: """'"'"""''

Rethuglican attorney protecting Rethuglican POTUS (convicted felon)'s interests, odd case!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48731201)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 9th, 2025 7:01 PM
Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


remember when McCabe got a sweetheart deal once Biden took office? good times ...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48731352)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 9th, 2025 6:23 PM
Author: internet g0y

lol, literally though

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48731205)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 9th, 2025 6:29 PM
Author: the place where there is no darkness

*with prejudice

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48731213)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 9th, 2025 6:23 PM
Author: kendrick lamar ((zurich is stained))

not a crim bro and i'm obviously retarded, but isn't it totally clear that the govt can drop a case at any time regardless of how the judge feels about it?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48731204)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 9th, 2025 6:26 PM
Author: Wang Hernandez

No, the fed crim rules expressly say that the court has the right to review the decision to dismiss. That said Clement’s brief is informative. It explains that this discretion is highly limited to protect a criminal defendant’s right by dismissing a case with prejudice when the government only wants to dismiss without prejudice to avoid game playing by the prosecution. It does not allow the court to order a prosecution to continue.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48731210)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 9th, 2025 6:26 PM
Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


... unless it's a Republican dropping the charges and it's a shitlib judge.

a similar (but different) thing happened with General Flynn.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48731211)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 9th, 2025 7:03 PM
Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/1f5628935f344d93/fbe0ddd2-full.pdf

ARGUMENT . 12

I. Separation-Of-Powers Principles, Which Exist Primarily To Promote

Individual Liberty, Inform The Courts' Role In ReviewingMotions Under Rule

48(a)...... 12

II. Rule 48(a) Vests Courts With A Limited, But Essential, Power To Vindicate

LibertyByAvoiding Even The Appearance OfExecutive Overreach . 16

CONCLUSION.......... 25

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48731370)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 9th, 2025 7:05 PM
Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


INTRODUCTION AND SUMMARY OF ARGUMENT

Since their adoption in the 1940s, the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure have

consistently provided (with minor changes in wording) that “ [t]he government may, with leave of

court, dismiss an indictment.” Fed. R. Crim. P. 48(a) (emphasis added). Rule 48(a) deliberately

departed from prior practice by reserving a judicial role when the executive seeks to unwind

criminal process that has proceeded past the grand jury phase. The Rule does not allow the

executive to dismiss a prosecution unilaterally or dictate that a dismissal be without prejudice. But

Rule 48(a) does not- -and could not?fundamentally transform the dynamic among the branches.

Nothing in the Rule expressly authorizes the Article III branch to force the Article II branch to

continue a prosecution against its will, or to appoint a private party to take it over. Moreover, like

the constitutional separation ofpowers itself, the principal office ofRule 48(a) is the protection of

individual liberty. It protects the speedy-trial rights and other liberty interests ofthe defendant.

Consistent with these principles, Rule 48(a) provides the court with an important, but limited, role

in assessingthe government's motion to discontinue an ongoing prosecution. The Rule authorizes

the court to consider how the prosecution should be discontinued with or without prejudice?

ratherthan empowering the court to take over the distinctly executive prosecutorial function.

The same basic separation-of-powers principles that counsel against a court maintaining a

prosecution overthe executive's objection support dismissal with prejudice here. The executive's

unilateral option for ending a prosecution—namely, a pardon—more closely resembles a dismissal

with prejudice. And the executive's undoubted power to decline to initiate a prosecution leaves a

citizen's liberty untouched. But a dismissal without prejudice creates a palpable sense that the

prosecution outlined in the indictment and approved by a grand jury could be renewed, a prospect

that hangs like the proverbial Sword of Damocles over the accused. Such an ongoing prospect of

re-indictment is particularly problematic when it comes to the sensitive task of prosecuting public

officials. There is an inherent risk that once an indictment has been procured, the prospect ofreindictment could create the appearance, if not the reality, that the actions of a public official are

being driven by concerns about staying in the good graces ofthe federal executive, rather than the

best interests of his constituents. That prospect explains the absence of deferred prosecution

agreements involving public officials. Dismissal with prejudice avoids those concerns and

promotes another important separation-of-powers virtue— namely, accountability.

These general principles inform the specific questions the Court has asked the parties and

amicus to address. In short, Rule 48(a) gives the court an important, but limited, role, principally

focused on how not whether—a prosecution should be dismissed. In discharging that function,

a court can consider materials outside the Rule 48(a) motion itself, but should conduct that inquiry

with sensitivity to separation-of-powers principles and avoid unnecessary intrusion into the

prosecutorial function. In a rare case like this, where executive deliberations have already been

made public, the Court need not ignore those materials. Moreover, the proper scope ofjudicial

inquiry is informed by the primary judicial mission under Rule 48(a)—namely, deciding whether

to dismissthe prosecution with or without prejudice. Thus, where the publicly availablematerials

are sufficient to support dismissal with prejudice, there is no need for further inquiry. Here, the

publicly available materials—and the basic dynamic of a federal prosecution ofa popularly elected

public official—counsel in favor of dismissal with prejudice. Finally, even ifthis Court were to

deny the government's motion, it could not constitutionally force the executive to proceed, which

would likely necessitate a dismissal with prejudice on speedy-trial grounds.

In short, Rule 48(a) gives this Court a vital , but limited, role in determining whether

dismissal should be with or without dismissal. And all roads here— including the same separationof-powers principles that constrain the Court's options—lead to dismissal with prejudice.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5684008&forum_id=2#48731376)