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what % of v10 lawyers come from wealthy families/privileged back
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:33 AM Author: Irradiated fat ankles grounds? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12129674) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:34 AM Author: burgundy national v20 partner that is a family friend says most associates come from the poor/middle classes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12129687) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:37 AM Author: violent stead Obviously most come from the poorer/middle classes, since that is what most people are. But are the rich overrepresented in proportion to their population weight? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12129707) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:37 AM Author: cobalt thriller wagecucks main people yep. which is why law is such a striving profession. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12129709) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:39 AM Author: Irradiated fat ankles this is utter flame. 90% of the shithead cunts ive worked with during my summer were born with a silver spoon up their ass. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12129732) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 10:45 AM Author: histrionic frisky voyeur thats what a poor piece of shit like you might think, but if they were truly rich or well-connected they wouldn't have landed in biglaw careers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12131549) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:22 PM Author: vibrant giraffe this is simply not true. you assume people go to biglaw for the money or because they can't get anything more desirable, but many people (super-rich included) enter big law for other reasons.
there are a ton of very rich and well-connected biglaw attorneys. |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 2:10 PM Author: Wonderful Pontificating Box Office Boiling Water probably differing definitions of middle class.
to the partner, anyone who takes in less than 1 mil/year = middle class.
to you anyone who makes over 3 or 400,000 = silver spoon up ass. |
Date: July 1st, 2009 12:36 AM Author: cobalt thriller wagecucks main people specify wealthy and privileged.
modesty upper-middle class? maybe a little more than half.
actual wealth and prestige? less than easily less than 10%, maybe even down below 5%.
law requires too much work for too little money, isn't intellectually prestigious, and most people with real money and affluence know that it sucks and would do everything possible to prevent their kids from wasting their time with it. it's also much more of a meritocracy than other professions, meaning the hard-striving middle-classers tend to take over. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 6:41 AM Author: Indecent Karate so what do wealthy kids do for work? something really easy and "prestigious" like working 90+ hrs/week as an ibanker? financial advisor? dentist?
it's a myth that rich kids have some secret access to some secret job that pays millions w/ little work. the rich kids i know have to hustle for jobs just like everyone else and would LOVE to land a v10 job just to placate their parents till they die so they can get their inheritance. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 8:40 AM Author: Dashing shrine feces this seems mostly correct, though it involves a lot less hustle when you can have your dad or your friend's dad make a few phone calls. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12131176) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 10:48 AM Author: histrionic frisky voyeur "so what do wealthy kids do for work? something really easy and "prestigious" like working 90+ hrs/week as an ibanker? financial advisor? dentist?"
first of all, ibanking is not easy. second of all, no. if their parents are worth like $50 million, they do stupid easy shit like working for their parents or going to teach for america or going to crappy ass grad schools. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 11:50 AM Author: crawly becky my experience has been that if your parents worked hard enough to earn the $50m in the first place, they are not going to let you skate by in an English PhD program for 20 years. They are as demanding of their children as they are of themselves.
Often the situation is like this:
Dad now runs a business worth $50m, but it took 100 hour weeks for his whole life to get there. Dad never went to college and owns a successful car dealership, construction business, etc. Kids have two choices: doctor/lawyer or family business. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 7:02 AM Author: Spectacular heaven national security agency Steven Schwartzman's son is an associate at skadden or something.
People on this board dont know what the fuck they are talking about anyway when it comes to something like * percentage of wealthy at V10* |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 7:51 AM Author: massive chapel azn i work at a traditional white shoe firm, and i essentially agree with the 5-10% figure. there seem to be very few associates who hail from true wealth. no shortage of 3rd generation college graduates, obviously, but real money and social prestige - not so much. children of immigrants and people who made their own way easily outnumber the silver spoon crowd. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12131125) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 10:48 AM Author: histrionic frisky voyeur yeah but he is an obvious exception. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12131569) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 7:58 AM Author: citrine nighttime people who are hurt casino Law, like a lot of professions, is mostly populated by children of the upper middle classes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12131130) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 10:50 AM Author: Obsidian boyish meetinghouse tcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12131583) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 3:24 PM Author: odious copper filthpig titMFcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12133506) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 8:54 AM Author: narrow-minded half-breed temple I think it depends on what firm you're at within the V10. At my firm (non-whiteshoe) there are very few people from wealthy families: probably 3% of my class. I imagine at a place like Cravath it would be more common, but no one I grew up with works there- the few who went to law school are working for real estate or entertainment boutiques. There are also a wave that tried to have "creative" careers (writers, singers, internet startups) who are enrolling in law school now at 26-27 years old. I imagine they will eventually either go back to doing what they were doing before lawschool (since most of them are going to TTT's like NYSL) or spit our a few kids and start a family. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12131212) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 9:50 AM Author: Glittery state less than 10%
most are middle class strivers |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 9:55 AM Author: talented market even the middle-class is not exactly homogeneous.
I know quite a number have what I'd call 'decent' & nice family backgrounds, like moms and dads working as secondary school principals, vice-president of firms .... etc. comfortable life |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 10:06 AM Author: Glittery state of course. but there's really no reason for anyone from a privileged family to kill themselves in law.
the first generation of strivers usually does law. the second generation does banking. the third generation (now that they've made it) becomes a filmmaker or studies maps and shit. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 10:12 AM Author: violent stead I don't think it's a progression from law to banking like that. They're on the same level tha way. Agreed that the chldren of the rich tend to go into liberal bullshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12131404) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 10:12 AM Author: talented market yes...
but lower-middle classes/ real 'blue collar' working classes are very rare too.
I concur. law & banking are on the same level.
very oft you find siblings who are lawyers/ bankers/ MDs .... in a middle-class family. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:08 PM Author: Glittery state i disagree. Any way you slice it, bankers are higher up on the service provider ladder than lawyers. I've met many bankers whose parents were lawyers, but never the other way around. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12132037) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:13 PM Author: talented market well, ther are reasons why people go for JD, not MBA. to me, at least, JD is more professional. even if you do shitlaw, you are still a lawyer. but MBA -- what if you got sacked and no one gives credit to your degree? an MBA holder does not really carry any prof skills ...
I could be biased.
btw, ibankers also work shit hours.
I think the rich people do private banking, not ibanking. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:15 PM Author: Glittery state I understand this. I have both degrees. There's a reason though why you see tons of lawyers become bankers, while few bankers are signing up for law school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12132087) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:16 PM Author: Laughsome drunken resort lots of ex analysts sign up for law school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12132094) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:16 PM Author: Glittery state only the bad ones (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12132102) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:17 PM Author: Laughsome drunken resort honestly though, there are way more analysts in a ls class than ex lawyers in MBA school (they publish the MBA breakdowns, as you know). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12132110) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:19 PM Author: Glittery state well of course, you don't need the mba to go into finance. that said, I can only think of 2 analysts in my ls class, while we had at least 5 lawyers in my b-school class. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12132135) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:16 PM Author: talented market but when lawyers become bankers, they may/ may not need to get an extra degree. this is not true for ibankers who wanna become lawyers, though. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:18 PM Author: Glittery state of course. most bankers see what the lawyers deak with and wan't no part of it. being an analyst sucks, but at least you get to boss 30 year old lawfirm associates around. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12132125) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:26 PM Author: talented market my observation: a lot of upper-middle/ middle class kids go to law school to show that they are reasonably smart<-- middle-class educated parents are very demanding of their kids. then these kids do boutique law/ biglaw, whatever, before turning to something less demanding, like a lifestyle law firm/ counsel at an ibank/ start up cool businesses. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 3:55 PM Author: massive chapel azn lol, you really, really desperately want to believe that law is a more upper-crust profession than it is. a lawyer is barely a step up from a pharmacist - grow the fuck up. anybody you meet who actually has an education or career isn't impressed just because you have a fucking JD. people taken with a JD or middle-class tards working deadend jobs who think anything sounds amazing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12133816) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 2:01 PM Author: talented market I actually have more than a JD .... been doing the so-called cool stuff. but feel insecure ... |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 2:04 PM Author: talented market another anecdote:
one of my super-rich friends did go to a top school to get a JD -- she even interned at a T20.
But she now works at some big-name auction house as a business associate, never a biglaw associate.
so ... rich kids still wanna do law degrees. but after that, as I said, they go for some "cool" jobs. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 3:27 PM Author: indigo overrated mad cow disease regret What pensive would say is: bullshit. Any 22-year-old analyst shit who gives shit to a mid-level or senior law associate is going to get reamed by a VP or MD for damaging the bank's image, if not outright fired. Analysts are interchangeable and pretty much useless. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12133534) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 3:14 PM Author: territorial theater stage useless brakes Bankers are still service providers though just like attorneys. Also depends on what you're talking about, for transactional law, yeah bankers may be higher on the food chain, for complex litigation, obviously not.
Anyhow, really rich people don't need to become service providers. They can set up a hedge fund, private equity firm, family office, work the family biz, etc and are more likely to do law or banking for a couple years merely for the experience. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 3:18 PM Author: Glittery state or not do it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12133453) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 3:20 PM Author: territorial theater stage useless brakes True, but my point is that the ones who are more likely to do it for the experience. Very rarely does someone whose parents are worth $500 million slave away to become a MD at a ibank or partner at a law firm, they've got other much more attractive options. For this reason, I would say that most top ibankers and lawyers didn't come from extremely wealthy backgrounds. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12133466) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 1:15 PM Author: Topaz sanctuary Titcr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12141657) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 10:45 AM Author: useless pale nowag A small proportion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12131551) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 11:55 AM Author: Soul-stirring Submissive Athletic Conference Trump Supporter i lol @ poors who think about things like this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12131973) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:18 PM Author: electric twisted pervert TITCLOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12132120) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:09 PM Author: Misunderstood Home seems low; it's now a profession made for first-generation achievement, and it's beyond the reach of the dumb rich, at least where it matters (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12132046) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:10 PM Author: Laughsome drunken resort Diclaimer: I know few rich people (say 5, and I'm including what I know of their siblings for my analysis).
They fall into two categories: A) strivers who want to show parents they are not worthless. B) don't give a shit - know they will always have $$.
Most really rich people are from a family business I think. I know a couple doing stuff like going to law school/a prestigious firm or doing finance to show someone (themselves? their parents?) that they are worth something.
Then they plan to go into the family business. Or not.
I bet most will when they realize law/finance sucks compared to making lots of money at your family buisness. Only the most masochistic will stick it out in a profession just to show their parents. These people are as striving as poor strivers, they just have a different reason. |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 3:31 PM Author: diverse jewess hell I only know one rich family as family friends (not people through school, because that would be biased towards doing the same things as me). One of the kids got a Ph.D in electrical engineering and is working for Google, one is trying to get into med schools now (she got rejected from some lower-ranked schools, but is holding out hope for a top 10 school where the family made a huge donation), and the third is working at a hedge fund in New York with only a BA from a mediocre school (a job she got entirely through connections).
This is not old wealth, though - the dad got rich as a doctor who invented some medical device and founded a company (about $80 million from the IPO), then began managing a health-industry hedge fund. I think some decayed old aristocratic family would probably be much less ambitious. |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 1:40 PM Author: Learning disabled church building preventive strike the only seriously rich friend i have (personally worth 100's of millions) got an MFA, drives a honda civic, and just paints and travels all the time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12141822) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 12:21 PM Author: Cerebral cruise ship Many many equity partners but very few associates (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12132164) |
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Date: July 1st, 2009 3:29 PM Author: indigo overrated mad cow disease regret What pensive would say is that you are correct. Rich kids only enter IB or law if they have a serious professional advantage (MD-level uncle) that will follow them the whole way to the top. Otherwise, they know not to bother. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12133555) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 1:14 PM Author: Topaz sanctuary Subject: I would think the opposite. Why the fuck would anyone who comes from a family already worth 8 or 9 figures want to be a law firm partner? Plenty of people with wealthy backgrounds try out law for a little to just get the exposure before heading to take over the family business, but most will not make a career out of lawyering. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12141656) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 1:44 PM Author: indigo overrated mad cow disease regret What pensive would say is that it's a lot less agonizing to try out for partnership if you come from a rich family, because interesting projects, good mentorship, and fail-safe advancement are pretty much guaranteed for these kids. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12141849) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 1:46 PM Author: Cerebral cruise ship they already have clients. don't have to prove themselves to anybody. they are in demand by the firm, and don't smell of desperation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12141863) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 2:04 PM Author: indigo overrated mad cow disease regret What pensive would say is that you're absolutely correct. People who enter biglaw have a strong belief in meritocracy and social justice that leave them unable to accept, at first, how society really works. This naivete leaves them unprepared for a world where resources (plum jobs, contacts, opportunities) are given first and most lavishly to those who don't need them, and where the unfortunate are kicked while they're down. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12141981) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 1:15 PM Author: Blathering rambunctious base boistinker wow, what a groundbreaking thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12141663) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 1:23 PM Author: appetizing trailer park rigor The days when rich kids would look forward to never having to work are long gone--that lifestyle is no longer prestigious, even among the rich.
The slacker rich kids will go into easy fields like art museum curator and aspiring writer living in Williamsburg, while the more hard working rich kids will go into law or investment banking. Whatever they choose to do, their connections and upper class manners give them a big leg up over middle class people who really need the money. |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 1:43 PM Author: indigo overrated mad cow disease regret What pensive would say is that TITCR, sadly. It's the connections that matter more than the mannerisms, which any douche can learn. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12141845) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2009 2:03 PM Author: Dashing shrine feces *would know how to use each piece of cutlery at now non-existent free lunch* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031188&forum_id=2#12141976) |