Protip: Most prudish backwards religious shit is actually right
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: May 29th, 2013 1:43 PM Author: copper weed whacker
Sure, it is hard to say anything is "wrong" in our relativist postmodern world, but putting aside the question of right or wrong, most things people scoff at as backwards religious nonsense usually turn out to be good advice.
Masturbation is a classic example of this. The idea that masturbation is generally wrong is scoffed at as among the most ridiculous of religious ideas by chuckling hoards of superior redditors who then turn around and, in the same breath, evangelize the life-altering benefits of "nofap." Consuming pornography is a related example.
Other examples abound. Many religions suggest that fornication is wrong and, oh come on, how can it be wrong for two responsible adults who like each other to enjoy themselves getting off together? Yet, we have seen that widespread acceptance of fornication leads to an absolute social crisis of out-of-wedlock births, rampant sexually transmitted disease, and the disaster that is the hook-up culture and current fucked-up sexual marketplace that leaves everyone with a feeling of emptiness.
Many religions have a problem with certain forms of birth control and, oh my god, how could you be against condoms for HIV positive africans (or 14 year old american girls who have their whole lives in front of them and are too young to get knocked up!)??!!? Now witness the ill-effects, economic and cultural, of sub-replacement fertility in the enlightened western world.
I could go on. It is amazing how many things the supposedly barbaric superstitious religious cultures that preceded us got right that we now get wrong.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23291777) |
Date: May 29th, 2013 1:45 PM Author: Bronze meetinghouse
"most things people scoff at as backwards religious nonsense usually turn out to be good advice"
stopped there
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23291785) |
Date: May 29th, 2013 1:54 PM Author: razzle office
Of course there's some benefit to nofap and not fornicating etc, for many. But religion doesn't just advise one against sin, it commands adherence to the rules.
If you value enforced moral order higher than freedom, the Saudis might let you live there.
Further, you might want to look at the downsides of a positively repressed society. Might not be as happy as you think, married to and as a virgin, popping out as many kids as God wills.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23291832) |
Date: May 29th, 2013 1:54 PM Author: snowy marvelous personal credit line
Religion is bullshit, but I tend to agree with you.
Another example is the Sabbath. It's clear that having a day off is very good for your mental health.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23291833) |
Date: May 29th, 2013 2:01 PM Author: hairraiser plaza
the way of life we threw over with Christianity, represented the accumulated, time-tested wisdom of a thousand generations.
what did we replace it with? artificial social arrangements wherein whorish "hypergamous" women try pathetically to act like men, moral decline, rampant institutionalized sociopathy (see Lasch's "Culture of Narcissism"), etc.
too "enlightened" for our own good, i would say.
(God save the queen.)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23291868) |
Date: May 29th, 2013 2:02 PM Author: metal vivacious hunting ground
Wonder if you saw my post in that other thread this morning re: masturbation and nofap, or if we just both think alike.
Some Catholic academics bemoan "theology of the crotch", and that's a good term for it, because 90% of resistance to Catholic (and I suppose evangelical) moral teaching focuses on crotch-related topics. The irony is, of course, that the impetus behind prohibitions against masturbation, promiscuity, abortion, etc. is the belief that self-discipline in these matters is both better for the community as a whole, as well as tending to lead towards greater human freedom and happiness as a person.
And I think this belief can be fairly well defended, with no reference to God or an afterlife.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23291874) |
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Date: May 29th, 2013 2:22 PM Author: razzle office
No, they're literally in books that religion claims to be the word of God.
Now that doesn't mean one can't also get to similar conclusions via simple thought. But that's just the self-help section of Barnes and Noble.
If they didn't command it as divine decree, and instead advised it by proclaiming its tangible benefits, that's fine. That doesn't take away freedom like religion does. I value freedom higher than forcedly moral society. Is that cool, breh? This is America, the POTUS of all countries ever and it was founded on such principles.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23291977) |
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Date: May 29th, 2013 2:35 PM Author: metal vivacious hunting ground
It's not scripture, which is what youre talking about, but there's a great line in shaw's play about St. Joan of Arc.
Someone's calling her crazy, telling her the God she adores and whose voice she hears (and follows to her death) is just her imagination.
She says something like, no shit motherfucker, where else would God speak to me but in imagination?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23292026) |
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Date: May 29th, 2013 2:41 PM Author: razzle office
Are you saying then that I should accept the values of all those who claim to speak with God? Idk what you're getting at.
I'm saying we should evaluate values on their merits, and be wary of enforcing values as that generally limits one's freedom, which as an American I hold in extremely high regard as far as values go.
You seem to be suggesting that not only are religious values 'right', they ought to be somehow enforced. Perhaps I'm reading too much into what you're saying, but otherwise you're no different from a million self help authors with a spiritual non religious bent.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23292057) |
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Date: May 29th, 2013 3:08 PM Author: razzle office
Well I'm saying there's a million dudes out there with the same ideas as religion but they're not commanding it and forcing it on society. So if he's saying 'hey Christianity etc didn't get it All wrong! "I'd say no shit, sherlock. Everyone loves the golden rule.
Perhaps I don't see his point but the OP sure reads like he wishes everyone else shared his values and the only way to do that is theocracy, no? How else to stamp out unorthodox views and lifestyles?
Fact is, even the non religious appreciate not being totally promiscuous or jerking off all the time and having a strong nuclear family. We just aren't keen on enforcing those values and prefer to give people the freedom to choose them or not.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23292270) |
Date: May 29th, 2013 7:13 PM Author: thriller deranged stain half-breed
"I could go on"
please do
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23293998) |
Date: May 29th, 2013 10:15 PM Author: onyx exciting newt old irish cottage
180.
Personally, I've tried to take this a step further. If the rules generally help, why not incorporate the spiritual aspect for the same reasons? Does faith, hope, charity improve your character? your life? I'd say it does. Our generation, unfortunately, has to discover religious backwards, we have to see the good effects and work back to the reason. In the past, the reason was given/forced on us, and the effects were felt without understanding.
The Greeks had a similar experience especially regarding birthrates.
EDIT: by the way, 5 months NO FAP.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23295093) |
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Date: May 29th, 2013 10:31 PM Author: metal vivacious hunting ground
I really like your post and daresay that in Judeo-Christianity the iconic figures were in much the same position as you. The prophets doubted like motherfuckers. Jesus of Nazareth was wracked with doubt. Even their mythic heros like Jacob or Job were celebrated mostly because in the face of complete doubt and cynicism, they somehow chose to attempt some act of faith.
I think a common atheist misconception of faith is that it is a complete intellectual assent to a quasi-scientific principle. Better understood, mature faith is recognizing youre impossibly limited and flawed, and have no assurances that faith isnt a perverse, expensive joke, but still somehow desire to, at the very least, make an effort towards believing. Mark 9:24, father of the dead kid can only say "I do believe; help me overcome my disbelief."
Contemporary examples would include Mother Teresa, who purportedly felt nothing but an absence of God for the last decades of her life, but soldiered on, trying to live as if she had faith, hope and charity.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23295241) |
Date: June 30th, 2013 1:33 PM Author: Diverse bull headed state wagecucks
It is all the free rider problem. Society would be better as a whole with nuclear families, traditional gender roles, and enforced rules against promiscuity, but, for most individuals, that is simply not true. Everyone acts as they want and, as a result, society suffers. Basically I want to sleep with as many women as I want and never have to marry them or support any children. Not good for society (which would probably benefit from me in a nuclear family with well supported offspring), but it is what I want and there are limited societal consequences for doing so, so I do it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23508310) |
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Date: June 30th, 2013 1:47 PM Author: Diverse bull headed state wagecucks
I married a virtuous woman who wanted kids the first time around and I was miserable. I hate to sound like a shitlib, but alternative lifestyles (in my case permanently single and childless) can be credited on the individual level.
Where I diverge with shitlibbery, is over societal acceptance. Not even ten years ago, eyebrows were raised when I brought the way to young and beautiful girl of the month I was fucking to a firm event (and a different one to the next). Now, no one cares. Gays bring their boy toys. Lesbians bring their way too old partners. Now, short of something illegal, I don't think anyone would object. Even if I showed up with a 16 year old, people would be like, isn't she precocious.
We were better when firm events were "spouses only" at the holiday (formerly Christmas) party and attorneys only for everything else.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2268444&forum_id=2#23508400) |
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