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Other hardworking high LSATs going to Tier 2?
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Date: September 17th, 2005 7:13 PM Author: passionate station mexican Any other high LSAT, hard working people on here, who for some reason, had to attend a lesser school? Everytime I come on here, and see all the advantages T14 graduates will have (and they will have these advantages - there's no need to delude ourselves. Our T2 status will follow us for the rest of our lives) - I get a little down.
I thought maybe we could commiserate in this thread. I'd like to hear your stories. Here's mine.
I blew my first year at University. I was attending Fordham in the bronx. I had a 2 hour one-way commute of subways & walking into really bad neighborhoods (this was when the economy was really bad.) I was also very poor and that was the best we could do. I got mugged once and was threatened on numerous occasions. So I just stopped going to class and got straight F's the first year. The Dean refused to offer any help, or to change the F's to W's. Blah blah blah ...
Then I transferred to a safe school and got near straight A's. In my last year, I took a double load of courses (to make up for the lack of progress in the first year) and passed with an A average. I also got a 173 on the LSAT confirming that I had some intellectual ability. Nothing fantastic but still I hoped for a T30.
Being that three A's and one F average to a 3.0, my ultimate LSAC GPA was 2.9. I described what happened in my personal statement, but apparently the law schools don't care. I guess the bottom line is my US News GPA was 2.9 and they weren't going to let me drag their US News ranking down. I got rejected or waitlist/rejected from every school except Tier 2 and below. One Tier 2 even rejected me. So that's where I had to go. I didn't even get any money. |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 7:15 PM Author: concupiscible bisexual location That sucks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3845371) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 7:16 PM Author: multi-colored jet legend See also the thread on TTTransfers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3845373) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 7:17 PM Author: trip angry sex offender i hope ur excuse was not "i didn't feel safe at fordham and the commute was too long." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3845381) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 7:17 PM Author: painfully honest jewess ceo wait it out.
apply again next year. |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 7:18 PM Author: passionate station mexican I thought about that but it seemed like the same thing would happen next year, so I just attended the Tier 2. The teachers here are smart and accomplished and the work is definitely hard and intellectually challenging, but it's not going to be too impressive on the resume. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3845407) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 7:20 PM Author: painfully honest jewess ceo you shouldn't have.
it's just one more year.
don't know why people never do this. |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 8:53 PM Author: splenetic casino hmm that's weird. My sister got into several T1s (22-50) last year with an LSAT much lower than yours and the same GPA. not a urm. do you have any arrests or anything? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846233) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:26 PM Author: passionate station mexican Oh not at all. Clean record. Not URM. That's great that it worked out for your sister. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846831) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 9:13 PM Author: Honey-headed Vengeful Puppy Milk What's the difference if you apply next year? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846361) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:09 PM Author: Hyperventilating curious space mental disorder I hate your xoxo name. it's so offensive. I'd hate to be you on judgement day.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846667) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:59 AM Author: painfully honest jewess ceo lucky for me there's no such thing.
try to free yourself of superstition. |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 9:00 PM Author: razzle disrespectful hall Do you go to an east coast T2? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846269) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 9:17 PM Author: Insecure Indigo Box Office Nah, I think he's either at USF or Santa Clara, both bay area CA schools. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846396) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 9:51 PM Author: Irradiated property Those aren't lousy schools, either. Both place well in NorCal/Sili Valley. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846564) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 9:53 PM Author: hairraiser sadistic rigpig gaping I've heard good things about SCU, but not really anything from USF. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846572) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:01 PM Author: Irradiated property The USF campus is beautiful in general and USF Law just built a huge, brand new, beautiful law library and completely renovated the academic/office buildings with state of the art wireless/high tech thingees everywhere. I was really impressed with what they've done. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846616) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:03 PM Author: hairraiser sadistic rigpig gaping Do you go there? Didn't you guys just host the SBA bar review or something? How was it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846626) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:05 PM Author: Irradiated property Dunno, I went there for UG and used to do student work in the law school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846640) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:27 PM Author: passionate station mexican The school I go to is in the high range of Tier 2. It seems like a good place to learn law. It has excellent teachers and the work is in no way easy. Lots of challenging hard work. But regardless of how good the school is, many doors are obviously closed when you don't go to a T1. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846835) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 9:13 PM Author: Razzmatazz abnormal associate dragon what did you write about in your PS? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846366) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:10 PM Author: apoplectic meetinghouse Why didn't you get into a better school than Fordham. Apparently you didn't work very hard in HS either. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846674) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:30 AM Author: big obsidian pit prole To which T1 schools did you apply? How many outside of T14? I find it surprising that *all* those schools rejected you, particularly given the number of splitters on LSN, LSD, and here who have gotten in to schools as high as T10.
I'm not trying to be contentious, but something doesn't seem to add up. Were you straight out of UG? How were your recs? Did you use your PS to explain your academic difficulties, or did you use an addendum? As a fellow splitter with similar numbers, I'm just curious to understand your situation better. Thanks for any insight. |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:36 AM Author: passionate station mexican I applied to about 8? I should say, I actually did get into one Tier 1 - George Mason. But I turned it down for a local high Tier 2. I ultimately plan on working locally any way, and it didn't make sense to move accross the country for a low Tier 1.
Like I replied to some prior posters who shared your thoughts - I think you hear about the splitters who get lucky because lucky people like to advertise their fortune. It's just human nature. I think most splitters wind up in the low Tier 1 / high Tier 2 like me. That's where we should be if you base admissions on the Index (the weighted avg. of LSAT and GPA.) Also note that my LSAT isn't THAT great - it's 173, not 178. |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:37 AM Author: Beta rigor water buffalo Sorry, but eight apps in the T1 is way too low for someone in your situation. I applied to more schools than you and I had roughly similar numbers, with the slight caveat of a split LSAT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847720) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:40 AM Author: passionate station mexican I guess you're right. Well I'm glad it worked out for you if you share my numbers. Note one explanation for your admissions success might be that your 2.9 is from Yale, where as mine from a mix of Fordham and a public school. Not all 2.9s are equal!
So any way, why do you think you wound up so low at Yale? You seem pretty smart. What caused you to underachieve? (Not that a 2.9 at Yale has to be characterized as an underachievement. It could have just been that grades weren't your priority. If so, that's perfectly understandable and many presidential candidates, and presidents, would share your priorities.) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:42 AM Author: glittery den turdskin What year are you? 1L? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847751) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:43 AM Author: passionate station mexican Yeah. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847756) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:51 AM Author: Beta rigor water buffalo Well, my point is that for all purposes, we are the same candidate-- in fact, we even have the same averaged LSAT (167/179).
Frankly I was lucky to escape with a 3.0 in college. I was coping with a seven class per semester courseload, with most of them being engineering classes. Our department consisted only of a small cadre of students-- a total of 5 or 6. Several of them were genuinely brilliant and could see more at a glance than I could deduce in several hours. There was simply no competing against the potency of this intellect; later, after graduation, I was rather astonished to find that I was competitive with engineers at the top of their class from public universities like Mich or Berkeley.
There is a stereotypical archetype of the low GPA/high LSAT splitter being a lazy but bright slacker. But in my case (and your case, I'd imagine), I legitimately busted ass to the point where it was common for me to work 14+ hour days. Near my senior year I was conducting experiments for 20 hours each day. Law school work, for all its drudgery, seems like a paradise to me.
I planned poorly for the future and this is something that I have accepted. But it doesn't alter my directed anger at the manufactured credentials that others present-- not the least because I misbubbled 8+ questions on the first LSAT, or that my English major GPA would have made me a lock at HLS. |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:54 AM Author: passionate station mexican Fascinating. Thanks for sharing your soulful and interesting experiences. I'm glad you wound up in a good school although I agree it seems beneath where you belong. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847834) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:58 AM Author: Beta rigor water buffalo Thank you; I think that I'm where I belong now, though-- I've made several close friends here and the radiance of those things that are truly important tends to eclipse the hunt for something that cannot be ultimately fulfilled.
Perhaps I will see you here next year when you clock in at the top of your class. |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:55 AM Author: big obsidian pit prole Thanks for the reply. It clarifies a lot of things. Your original posting made it sound like no T1 school would touch you with a ten-foot pole (which freaked me out a little). In reality, you could have gone to a higher ranked school, and possibly could have been accepted to a few more. Good luck with LS and I hope you start to feel better about it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847846) |
Date: September 17th, 2005 9:48 PM Author: ebony ladyboy Um....even with that gpa, you could have easily gotten into SOME T1.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846556) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:12 PM Author: Beta rigor water buffalo I agree-- something is wrong here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846686) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:21 PM Author: Pale Boiling Water Plaza it sounds to me like he was being to whiney in his apps blaming everyone but himself for his ttt gpa. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846771) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:41 PM Author: passionate station mexican I think people like me just don't tell their story, so nobody knows about us. My admissions sort of make sense though, because if you base admissions on my index (weighted average of GPA and LSAT) - then I should be going to a high Tier 2 / low Tier 1.
There's got to be more like me out there. |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:53 PM Author: Beta rigor water buffalo the admissions formula go to hell when you have GPA/LSAT splits; they simply aren't designed to assess a 2.7/180 applicant.
regardless i suspect that you'll find yourself with quite an advantage as you'll have at least a ten point advantage above your classmates. |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:03 PM Author: Beta rigor water buffalo "Any other high LSAT, hard working people on here, who for some reason, had to attend a lesser school?"
Yep-- it doesn't bother me though since I like my school now. My take on this is that life throws you a curveball every once in a while, but as a whole you'll be fine. |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:18 PM Author: apoplectic meetinghouse Wrong. It throws you a curveball, but you will forever be less prestigious than those who attended a Top 15 LS. Forever and ever and ever and ever. The guy who went to Georgetown will always get more respect than you, with your shitty ttt pedigree. htfh |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:20 PM Author: Beta rigor water buffalo your example would have been far more effective had you chosen a school like harvard or yale, instead of a school ranked below mine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846765) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:21 PM Author: apoplectic meetinghouse Oh. I was under the impression you were a Tier 2 fellow. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846777) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:24 PM Author: Beta rigor water buffalo I am a Tier 2 fellow; MVP vs. HYSCCN.
As a sidenote to the OP, it seems that something is drastically wrong. 2.9/173 ought to give you a fair shot at some T30s with an early/decent app. |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:34 PM Author: passionate station mexican LOL. Quasar, you claim to be in the same boat as me and you're going to a school better than Georgetown? The Tier2 I'm talking about is 50-100. Good luck to you any way. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846912) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:44 PM Author: Beta rigor water buffalo but that's entirely my point; you will never be satisfied anyway. even in my position you would not be satisfied. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847017) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:33 PM Author: passionate station mexican That's good philosophy Quasar but unfortunately Buttonfly is sort of right. This board is such a downer for Tier 2's. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3846898) |
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Date: September 17th, 2005 10:41 PM Author: Beta rigor water buffalo thanks; i wouldn't worry about it though. the pursuit of prestige is an illusory one from which there can be no possible victory. consider that i came from HYP undergrad (the first hit is free, as they say] and ought to have been satisfied with what i had. yet this would never be, even if i went back to yale for law school. i consider law school to be itself a bastion for broken ambitions.
it's exceedingly likely that the combination of an inferiority complex + general sense of regret + a relatively powerful intellect will lead you to seek great success in law school. take it from somebody who graduated near dead last at Yale UG in his department; it's far better to be at the top of a mediocre institution than be mediocre at a better institution. |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:05 AM Author: passionate station mexican I don't know if it's an inferiority complex. I think an inferiority complex is an irrational and imagined belief that you're disadvantaged in some way. This isn't irrational or imaginary, this is real. My resume will look like crap next to a T14 resume. There's just no comparison between a Tier 2 resume and a T14 resume.
I'll do my best but who knows how well I'll do here. I kind of hate walking into the school. When I think of the school I often wind up thinking of the events at Fordham, since it seems like those events are the only reasons why I'm attending this school and not a good one. Sadly, I had completely put those events (mugging, threats and all of the other difficulties I had that first year) behind me until the law school admissions process resurrected them. Now I've associated those events with law school in an almost Pavlovian way.
Ironically, I would have been much happier if I had gotten say a 160 on the LSAT. Then I would have felt like I was where I belonged and could have better enjoyed the experience. But that darn high score just wound up opening old wounds. Oh well ... maybe I can find someone else in my shoes with whom to commiserate. |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:09 AM Author: glittery den turdskin Your future will likely not be that of a T14 grad. Regardless, you have a very bright future. We instinctively compare ourselves to those who seem to be doing better than us, thus providing fuel for our striving. This instinct is not one that leads to happiness (as almost none of our instincts do). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847553) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:16 AM Author: aphrodisiac school cafeteria halford I'm at a T14, alone, sad and feeling like a loser posting on xo on a Sat night if it makes you feel any better. Either you are attractive and happy, or life sucks. There is no middle ground. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847586) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:18 AM Author: crimson violent lodge boltzmann wanna meet up? got any pot? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847601) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:19 AM Author: aphrodisiac school cafeteria halford I know certain people, but have none myself. I'm a long way from STL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847609) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:24 AM Author: Buck-toothed indian lodge headpube i agree with an earlier poster - there are lots of T1 schools who would have been happy to take you. there must be something else to this than the GPA/LSAT split. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847651) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:26 AM Author: passionate station mexican I don't think it's that surprising. As I replied to a previous poster, my admissions makes sense in a way. If you base admissions on my index (weighted average of GPA and LSAT) - then I should be going to a high Tier 2 / low Tier 1. I'm sure there are more like me out there.
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:28 AM Author: aphrodisiac school cafeteria halford Focus on the fact that you are obviously really smart. Just work a little harder than you did in UG, and you can still kick ass in life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847671) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:30 AM Author: passionate station mexican Thanks for the good words. I hope you do well in law school also. Don't worry about being home on one Saturday night, there will be many many more. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847679) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:32 AM Author: Motley library The difference between a T2 and a top 25-30 is marginal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847692) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:37 AM Author: glittery den turdskin Yes, outside of the T-25 class rank takes on (even) greater importance. Besides Tulane, between 35-65 I couldn't name a school I am sure is T1 and not T2. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847714) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:41 AM Author: aphrodisiac school cafeteria halford I know a couple but just because they were safeties that I applied to. I surely agree with your statement though. I'm not sure which Tulane is, but I know it's on the bubble and changes periodically. It has great name recognition either way.. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847740) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 1:11 AM Author: amethyst school Your story is annoying. You got mugged once and you had a long commute. So what you got mugged, I've been mugged three times. So what you had a commute, that is your poor planning. I am not saying you are blaming your shitty first year on these factors...oh wait, that is exactly what I'm saying. If you actually used this as an excuse on your apps, rather than owning up to your fuck ups, then no wonder you didn't get in anywhere. We all fuck up, the test is whether we take responsibility for our actions, good or bad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3847983) |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 1:28 AM Author: glittery den turdskin I don't really take responsibility for my fuckups prior to the age of 21 or so, though I admit I would for ideal psychological health. He was 18 and his school situation sucked - it is shitty that it has had such a momentous effect on his life. Regardless, he is still in a pretty good situation though. |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:09 PM Author: Carnelian field fortuitous meteor For what it's worth, I was in that evil "get-into-any-school-below 25" range.)
I went to a top 30 (strong regional) vs. one of several strong regionals (with some money) in the 45-60 range.
Did poorly first year. So my 1L LS is experience is equivalent to your freshman year, but the stakes are higher.
Now what? |
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Date: September 18th, 2005 12:42 PM Author: Deep Temple Double Fault I'm hardworking and had a high LSAT, but ended up at a Tier 2. Got waitlisted by the top tier (HYS), so I had to go to Columbia. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=261190&forum_id=2#3848895) |