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WTF lawyers practicing through Professional Corporations can take out PPP loans
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Date: April 9th, 2020 10:47 PM Author: Cobalt comical immigrant Bernie was right. This system is rigged and fucked.
I thought you cant take out a loan if your employee makes more than $100K. It's just that the payroll applicable to the SBA loan is capped at $100K.
So I am a sole employee of my PC and I can take out a $25,000 loan and not repay it if I don't lay myself off.
Separately, my firm is taking out its own SBA loan for all staff and associates.
Ridiculous that I can get a nickel from this bullshit scam. |
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Date: April 9th, 2020 10:51 PM Author: Narrow-minded sapphire affirmative action $20,833 unless you have employees. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39980565) |
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Date: April 9th, 2020 10:54 PM Author: Cobalt comical immigrant isn't it 2.5 months of payroll capped at $100K?
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Date: April 9th, 2020 10:56 PM Author: Narrow-minded sapphire affirmative action 100000 / 12 = 8333.33
8333.33 * 2.5 = 20,833.33 |
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Date: April 9th, 2020 11:01 PM Author: Cobalt comical immigrant math! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39980624) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:38 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration Dude that's not how it works (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981202) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:41 AM Author: Narrow-minded sapphire affirmative action What are you talking about, man? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981438) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:48 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration The 2.5 multiplier doesn't operate for calculating individual payouts. Only for calculating your total amount of free $ at the business entity level (for an independent contractor this is the same amount) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981469) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:50 AM Author: Narrow-minded sapphire affirmative action What?
"and not repay it" |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:53 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration You will have to repay whatever is not used on rent, utilities and payroll capped at 16,666.66 per person over 2 months. APR is like 0.5% though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981498) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 2:07 AM Author: Narrow-minded sapphire affirmative action The interest will be 1% once it starts accruing: "The interest rate will be 100 basis points or one percent."
https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP--IFRN%20FINAL_0.pdf
And the rules say that it's the non-payroll portion of the loan that is subject to a forgiveness cap, not the payroll portion:
"not more than 25 percent of the loan forgiveness amount may be attributable to nonpayroll costs."
and
"at least 75 percent of the PPP loan proceeds shall be used for payroll costs."
https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP--IFRN%20FINAL_0.pdf
The section regarding discharge is here: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/748/text#toc-HB37C431F57484034A3D8B58B1EC16623 |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 2:12 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration Correct; and forgivable payroll costs are capped at $1,923 per week for each employee for up to 8 weeks, or $8,333.33 per month for up to 2 months (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981574) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:53 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration To be clear, the amount you can request uses the 2.5 multiplier. The amount you actually can pay to each employee is capped at 2 months (or 8 weeks). I think this is source of confusion. The idea is that some of the $ is for nonpayroll. Their min utilization ratio is like 3:1 payroll:utilities. But most of us shitlayers have a way higher ratio than that (low non-payroll overhead) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981266) |
Date: April 9th, 2020 10:50 PM Author: fishy step-uncle's house electric furnace Batbux are 180. Or they will be if it ever arrives. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39980563) |
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Date: April 9th, 2020 10:51 PM Author: Narrow-minded sapphire affirmative action You're more than a week behind, friend. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39980570) |
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Date: April 9th, 2020 10:53 PM Author: Bright spot scourge upon the earth My firm is getting 100K from this stuff. Jump on board with us! In fact, I'll buy you, Nutella, and the spouses dinner at Mastros again once this shit calms down. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39980577) |
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Date: April 9th, 2020 10:54 PM Author: Cobalt comical immigrant my firm is getting $4 million. And each partner getting $25K. It's offensive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39980588) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:35 AM Author: Ebony Abode Fortuitous Meteor Fewer than 500 employees at your midlaw firm? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981181) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:17 AM Author: Cobalt comical immigrant yes, like 250-300 if you count associates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981332) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:37 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration How are they getting more than 8333x2? You can't get more than 100k annual prorated over 2 months (or 8 weeks) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981198) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:53 AM Author: Startled galvanic lay As in, actually approved and funded? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981264) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:55 AM Author: Grizzly twinkling uncleanness Lol no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981276) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:33 AM Author: Cobalt comical immigrant (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981174) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:36 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration I requested 63k. I'm going to have to add someone to payroll if it goes through (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981189) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:40 AM Author: Exhilarant haunting black woman hospital you can pay me minimum wage as a consultant (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981213) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:49 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration Having you and CSLG on payroll for part of the year made my #s humongous (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981248) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:51 AM Author: fishy step-uncle's house electric furnace We’ll have too much money if it ever shows up. Guess we’ll give it back in 8 weeks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981255) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:02 AM Author: Kink-friendly Sneaky Criminal How are you substantiating the $63k? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981300) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:23 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration 2.5x monthly payroll (excludes FICA + fed withholding, and any income over 100k/year). I submitted my payroll report, w-2s and company tax returns (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981353) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:24 AM Author: Kink-friendly Sneaky Criminal Ok but why would you need to add someone to payroll (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981357) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:26 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration because chandler left and now I'd have to pay my paralegals 8333 per month to exhaust the funds (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981371) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:28 AM Author: Kink-friendly Sneaky Criminal Ah didn't realize you are kenny (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981379) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:51 AM Author: Charismatic Mint Lettuce Church Building lol you should talk to some vc and pe guys about how they're scamming this shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981260) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 12:56 AM Author: Grizzly twinkling uncleanness Another thread full of people who don't understand how underwriting works. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981281) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:02 AM Author: Kink-friendly Sneaky Criminal Does that mean you are double dipping? Be careful. Don't they ask about whether you are applying for a loan through am affiliated company or something? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981299) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:03 AM Author: Grizzly twinkling uncleanness None of these idiots are actually getting money. The banks are going to have to underwrite the FUCK out of these things bc they know the SBA will deny forgiveness and leave them holding the bag if there is one single uncrossed T. SBA is a shitshow and has always been notorious for fucking over lenders. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981304) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:05 AM Author: Startling Kitchen disagree. congress wants the money out ASAP and will tolerate some fraud. the banks are asking for (and almost certainly getting) stronger guarantees/protections. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981306) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:06 AM Author: Grizzly twinkling uncleanness Ok bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981310) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:07 AM Author: Kink-friendly Sneaky Criminal Cr. Isn't the whole point that the money is govt guaranteed so the risk is super low for the banks? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981313) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:19 AM Author: Cobalt comical immigrant yes. apparently chase and citi have been happy to lend to PC's so far. Two of my colleagues have gone through (not paid yet though). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981336) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:21 AM Author: Kink-friendly Sneaky Criminal Gone through as in approved and just waiting to get their money or that application has been submitted to the bank?
My fucking bank still doesn't have their application up. Fucking bullshit. |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:25 AM Author: Cobalt comical immigrant approved according to them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981360) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:28 AM Author: Grizzly twinkling uncleanness Did SBA assign case numbers yet? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981382) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:30 AM Author: Cobalt comical immigrant i dunno, i didn't ask. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981393) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:28 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration They must be stoked (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981383) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:29 AM Author: Sadistic resort As sole proprietor of a consulting business I have on the side of my 9-5, can I get this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981385) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:30 AM Author: Kink-friendly Sneaky Criminal I don't see why not (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981396) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:31 AM Author: Cobalt comical immigrant if you have an employee that you've been paying last year (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981398) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:37 AM Author: Sadistic resort Other than me, you mean? This is 100% a “business” based on me selling my personal labor at an hourly rate. It gets filed as self-employment income on my taxes.
I have had income for the last several years but no employees other than me. |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:47 AM Author: Narrow-minded sapphire affirmative action Sole proprietors can apply for the PPP loans. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981462) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:53 AM Author: Sadistic resort Based on “profit” I assume, as long as self-employment tax got paid on it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981499) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 2:12 AM Author: Narrow-minded sapphire affirmative action See:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/748/text#HE040BA6B62394E7E9A6FEAF56B3CEEA0
https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP--IFRN%20FINAL_0.pdf
". . . and for an independent contractor or sole proprietor, wage, commissions, income, or net earnings from self-employment or similar compensation." |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:46 AM Author: Narrow-minded sapphire affirmative action Doesn't need to be a year. For instance , newer businesses would use:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/748/text#H1D215E1E3393405FAE0A4E153FBF9733 |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:35 AM Author: Sadistic resort (I should add that my income through this has actually been affected by coronavirus; a consulting trip that would’ve netted $3000 or so got cancelled; looks likely that another one this summer will be, too.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981424) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:45 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration You can get whatever you earned up to 100k / 12 * 2.5
Edit: to clarify "you can get" = total amount they will give you. But only 8333.33 x2 can be paid to yourself as salary from that amount. The rest has to pay other people or rent or utilities |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:55 AM Author: Sadistic resort And it looks like the “year” ends January 31 if I’m reading this right? That’s excellent if so because I made as much in January as I did in the 11 months before....! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981508) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 2:02 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration You can use 2019 payroll for purposes of calculating 2.5x average monthly, or you can use the last 12 months from today, or you can pick another range in between those (like it your business is seasonal). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981531) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 2:09 AM Author: Sadistic resort That’s amazing. Income from a sole proprietorship without actually doing any work!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981562) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 2:25 AM Author: Cobalt comical immigrant Car lease? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981606) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:54 AM Author: Spruce Shrine Circlehead I thought about doing this for the 25k but decided against. I think the joke is going to be on the scammers when they get beat by technicalities. I expect the same 99% rejection rate as PSLF. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981501) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 1:57 AM Author: Sadistic resort Well, what do you have to lose? Can just pay it back, right?
Have you looked at EIDL? Looks like up to $10k of an advance on that doesn’t have to be pad back even if the loan is rejected. |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 2:03 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration I kind of regret not doing that. I didn't want to be stuck with actual loan payments if I got more than the 10k though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981542) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 2:11 AM Author: Sadistic resort Is it too late? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981570) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 2:15 AM Author: rebellious fanboi internal respiration It's too late to get the EIDL loan rolled into your PPP forgiveness (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981580) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 3:26 AM Author: Sadistic resort Anyone know of a bank that will actually do this for a sole proprietor? I have a Chase account, but got kicked back by their electronic app. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39981709) |
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Date: April 10th, 2020 11:47 AM Author: Sadistic resort ? Most specifically say you already need a business account WITH that bank. And only big banks seem to be SBA lenders. Credit union-mos BTFO. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4504002&forum_id=2#39982921) |