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HLS ($150K debt) vs Michigan ($0)
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:24 PM Author: submissive brunch Shooting for academia (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607610) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 3:47 PM Author: Yellow Appetizing Garrison it might be easy for you to transfer to harvard from michigan since you've already been accepted at H. Maybe just do the first year at michigan for free, tranfer to H for 2&3L, then own with your superior grades at H b/c the curved 1L classes at M don't get counted towards your gpa. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781498) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 7:46 PM Author: Translucent school Bad idea (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20782551) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 9:17 PM Author: Yellow Appetizing Garrison why? he'll either 1) graduate from Michigan with no law school debt or 2) graduate from Harvard at 2/3 the cost. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20782888) |
Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:25 PM Author: lemon swashbuckling forum UM (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607620) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:27 PM Author: Lascivious Bossy Pisswyrm Academia? HLS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607637) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:28 PM Author: erotic voyeur You won't make it to academia.
Michigan it is. |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:31 PM Author: lemon swashbuckling forum maybe 1-2 of my LS's entire faculty were from HLS
UM is a T6-10 and reasonable for academia if you get a COA and publish |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:38 PM Author: submissive brunch Define "reasonable"
I assume top 10% needed for COA at Mich? |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 9:58 PM Author: zippy clown not really (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20608913) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:30 PM Author: coral rigpig lol, neither is a good choice in this economy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607657) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:30 PM Author: laughsome school cafeteria son of senegal M (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607663) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:31 PM Author: disrespectful adulterous new version M u fucking idiot.. man ppl are naive and stupid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607675) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:33 PM Author: Lascivious Bossy Pisswyrm why not take half+ ride at CCN? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607692) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:39 PM Author: submissive brunch Rather not live in NYC (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607749) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:45 PM Author: Lascivious Bossy Pisswyrm Then go to Chicago, man. It's better than NYU and pumps out more academics per capita than Columbia. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607820) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:52 PM Author: submissive brunch Didn't get any aid from Chi. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607868) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:55 PM Author: Lascivious Bossy Pisswyrm really? I thought they'd be handing money out like candy this year with that big endowment trying to get as many HYS # kids as possible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607886) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 7:47 PM Author: Translucent school Because half ride at CCN still means six figure+ debt nowadays.
lol, just lol at law school. |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:48 PM Author: vigorous chartreuse dopamine shrine caribbean med school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607844) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 7:54 PM Author: Beady-eyed offensive goyim I can get a double-wide trailer for free or Shaq's old mansion for 150. Not sure. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20607879) |
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Date: May 30th, 2012 10:43 PM Author: Violent Mexican lol at your ridiculous username
i'm guessing m didn't work out for you |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 8:50 PM Author: Nubile State Puppy HLS. M for academia?? lulz.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20608328) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 9:51 PM Author: Racy corner water buffalo Michigan without a doubt. Debt is crushing, I don't care where the fuck you go. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20608839) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 9:57 PM Author: Hyperactive Cordovan Toaster Death Wish How do you know that you want to teach law, having never studied law? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20608905) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 11:28 PM Author: coiffed mauve faggotry meetinghouse He will abandon this foolhardy plan after 1 semester. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20783870) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 9:59 PM Author: zippy clown consult the leiter charts for where the hires in law teaching come from every year. it is shocking how much it is DOMINATED by HYS and to a much lesser extent places like chicago and columbia. michigan is not on the radar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20608931) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 10:07 PM Author: Abnormal Razzle Theater First, why would you want to be a law professor? That's just lame, especially since you don't even know anything about law yet. You sound like a massive striver.
Go to Michigan. |
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Date: May 27th, 2012 7:21 PM Author: misanthropic feces community account I have a lot of friends from UMich who are teaching. Obviously, you need to distinguish yourself academically during law school to be competitive. This means getting an editor position on the law review (or an EIC of a secondary journal. Getting a Darrrow scholarship helps. Getting a COA also helps. Top 25% of the class helps as well.
In your situation, I went to Michigan and do not regret it (although I was never interested in academia). You never know what happens in the future, and whether your preferences will change. Not having 200K of debt is going to make your life a lot easier in the future.
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Date: May 27th, 2012 7:22 PM Author: zippy clown LOL sup leiter? funny claim given that UM places one or two people in law teaching every YEAR at the VERY MOST
just LMFAO @ "top 25%" from UMich being competitive for a teaching gig. that's not even competitive for a d.ct. clerkship out of "sixigan" |
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Date: May 27th, 2012 9:41 PM Author: splenetic mentally impaired parlor UM every day of the week, twice on Sunday. This is an absolute no brainer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20778143) |
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Date: May 27th, 2012 9:41 PM Author: mustard big rehab Michigan (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20778144) |
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Date: May 27th, 2012 9:58 PM Author: free-loading plaza M. If you're good enough to plan on academia, you'll be fine at M. If you're not sure that you're good enough, you shouldn't be betting 160k on it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20778230) |
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Date: May 27th, 2012 10:02 PM Author: mustard big rehab succinctly put (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20778250) |
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Date: May 27th, 2012 10:03 PM Author: zippy clown lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20778256) |
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Date: May 27th, 2012 11:01 PM Author: cobalt buck-toothed associate if your're not sure you're good enough, go to the place where you'll be infinitely more fucked if shit goes bad... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20778578) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 3:52 PM Author: gold national boistinker Even if he strikes out at OCI at M, which is unlikely, he's only out living expenses from 1L year. I wouldn't call that being "infinitely fucked." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781517) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 11:30 PM Author: coiffed mauve faggotry meetinghouse Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20783900) |
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Date: May 30th, 2012 10:51 PM Author: free-loading plaza pretty sure you have that backwards. if shit goes bad, you'll have a harder time digging yourself out of 150k of debt than you'd have starting at $0. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20796256) |
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Date: May 27th, 2012 10:06 PM Author: Frozen library Harvard, easily (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20778267) |
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Date: May 27th, 2012 11:05 PM Author: cobalt buck-toothed associate you should only go to Michigan if 1) you plan on being in the top 1% there, 2) you think you'll be in the bottom 10% at HLS, 3) you have strong ties to Michigan and are sure you want to remain there, or 4) you already have a ton of debt (this is debatable, as HLS almost certainly has a better program for people who make shit money in public service).
Otherwise, HLS is a no brainer. |
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Date: May 27th, 2012 11:21 PM Author: misanthropic feces community account Stupidest advice ever. You don't need to be top 1% in Michigan to do well. The loan repayment program for HLS, AFAIK does not apply to academia, clerkships, government jobs, etc. Most Michigan students are not from Michigan and do not stay in Michigan after graduation, so your comments about ties is stupid.
Sure, if you end up being bottom half at Michigan, you might be screwed. But at least you have no additional debt. And at that point, maybe legal career wasn't the right choice for you. |
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Date: May 27th, 2012 11:28 PM Author: cobalt buck-toothed associate you need to be in the top 1% at sixigan to have a decent shot at academia.
if you're going to be mediocre, you're way better off at HLS, regardless of the debt situation.
not sure how much you know about HLS's low income protection program...seems like it's not that much...
Most michigan students don't have the option to go to CCN, let alone HLS, so i don't know what you're trying to prove by saying that most don't have michigan ties
yeah, if you're in the bottom 2/3 at michigan you might be fucked. unless you're bottom 10% at HLS, you're fine.
EDIT: this is verbatim from the hls lipp website:
"The plan helps relieve the burden of education loan repayment for J.D. graduates in full-time government, non-profit or academic jobs. In addition, full-time law-related jobs in the private sector are also covered under LIPP (see Eligible Employment for definition of law-related)."
you should really be a little more responsible when you give someone advice on potentially serious topics like this... |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 2:36 PM Author: misanthropic feces community account You are stupid to suggest that top 90% at Harvard somehow equals the same opportunities as top 1% at Michigan.
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Date: May 28th, 2012 7:41 PM Author: cobalt buck-toothed associate that is not what i said
i did, more or less, say that top 90% at HLS is equivalent to about top 1/3 at michigan, though...
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Date: May 29th, 2012 12:12 PM Author: misanthropic feces community account Michigan/Harvard Equivalency Table
Top 5% UM = Top 10% H Top 25% UM = Top 1/3 H Top 1/3 UM = Top 1/2 H Top 1/2 UM = Top 2/3 H
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Date: May 27th, 2012 11:31 PM Author: zippy clown 30% or less of the class at michigan even gets biglaw. just fucking LOL @ all these idiot proles on xo talking about how the OP will be fine for academia so long as he "does well" at michigan. going to law school at michigan *precludes* "doing well" simply by virtue of your presence, much like going to law school at GULC or WUSTL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20778765) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 2:42 PM Author: adventurous legend (4.0/169 retard at stanford) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781101) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 4:05 PM Author: gold national boistinker Cravath, skadden, dpw, and SC all disagree with you lil breh (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781576) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 8:33 PM Author: Trip elastic band ...Cravath? they hire, like, a person a year from Michigan. according to the website there are 17 M people. they take more people from fucking Fordham than Michigan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20782747) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 2:41 PM Author: Wild Cerebral Hissy Fit what is it that you think the HLS loan forgiveness program applies to, breh? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781097) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 11:31 PM Author: coiffed mauve faggotry meetinghouse Wtf, no (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20783916) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 2:40 PM Author: Wild Cerebral Hissy Fit XO in 2012: Michigan is totally fine for academia. they place people into feeder ==> SCOTUS ==> law prof track all the time. just make absolutely sure you're at least top 25% or have a board position on ur secondary journal. :))) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781085) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 2:42 PM Author: provocative maroon home indirect expression kill yourself for wanting to do 'academia' (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781106) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 4:04 PM Author: glassy resort This is an easy question. you can only do academia if you are among the top students in your class, but you have no idea if you are gonna be a top student.
a. Assume you are gonna be a top student. 1. Top of class at M = clerkship/academia 2. Top of class at HLS = clerkship/academia; I grant that you can be a little lower in the class in HLS, but I think its fair to say competition would also be more fierce.
b. Assume you, like 90% of all incoming 1Ls, end up in the bottom 90%. 1. Graduate M debt free, no worries, do whatever you want. Likely biglaw, balling with 160k and no debt. 2. Pwned by 160k debt with HLS pedigree, chained to Biglaw for 3+ years, when you will finally have 0 netwoth.
Now, is this still a hard decision?
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Date: May 28th, 2012 5:59 PM Author: spectacular pocket flask mental disorder this. having debt means u will have to work a job u will likely fucking hate for years b4 u can do what u want. it takes a toll on you man, especially since u will still be young and wish u had free time to do cool shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20782121) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 8:57 PM Author: cobalt buck-toothed associate 1) Graduates middle-of-the-class from M debt free
2) ???
3) Does whatever he wants, worry free |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 11:23 PM Author: coiffed mauve faggotry meetinghouse Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20783826) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 4:10 PM Author: White swollen business firm you need to be top of your class @ H to get academia anyway right? just take that free money bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781600) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 4:39 PM Author: violet house HLS and it is not even close. You put academia into play. Live with it and the debt. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781758) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 4:40 PM Author: glassy resort lolz at betting 160k that OP will make top 15% at HLS (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781766) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 4:41 PM Author: White swollen business firm yeah and if you can do that, who's to say he won't get top of class at M and not get academia (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781772) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 4:43 PM Author: violet house That is a chance. Going to Michigan is a .5% chance. Plus, saying you graduated from HLS is arguably worth 150k by itself. But that isn't the topic. |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 4:44 PM Author: White swollen business firm what the fuck no it isn't (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781784) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 6:02 PM Author: spectacular pocket flask mental disorder trust me it isn't worth it. only young idiots think it is. once u are in ur 30s almost no one gives a shit about where u went to school / it rarely comes up (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20782134) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 11:36 PM Author: coiffed mauve faggotry meetinghouse This is so fucking funny. Only young fools think like this. Yes destroy yourself financially for that raised eyebrow a couple times a year when nobody really fucking cares. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20783963) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 4:57 PM Author: pontificating unholy point generalized bond There's no question that, per capita, Harvard places more, and better, than Michigan. Part of that is probably self-selection, but that's a little unkind to Harvard. That said, the self-reported data last year said Michigan placed 10 or so, and Harvard placed 17 or so; this year, Harvard placed 20 or so, and Michigan just 2 or so. There's self-reported data to deal with and the limitations there, of course. So it's up to you to interpret how you will. It's really a question of how risk-averse or debt-averse you are. If you turn down Harvard, in all likelihood (but not in all certainty) you'll perform well at Michigan; but, there's a risk you may not, and a risk that you won't have the same opportunities. In the end, I think it's something of a wash. $150K or so in debt is nothing to sneeze at; but the H-bomb is, I suppose, "priceless." Law school at a T6 (or whatever the numbers the kids use these days) for free is impressive; the risk that you don't get the crap shoot of academia is something else. And really, with a little elbow grease (publishing a couple of quality pieces upon graduation), you can put yourself in a strong position if you're targeting academia from day one. It's harder to decide in 5 years you want to do academia when you'd have acted differently from the beginning. Sorry, I realize this didn't give you an answer. Except to say all the "definitely" answers in this thread are probably wrong. |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 5:09 PM Author: zippy clown "ohhhhhh but it alllll depends on thiiiings"
(nasally Jew shitlaw prof at TTT providing penetrating BPL analysis) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 5:20 PM Author: pontificating unholy point generalized bond Sorry. If OP wants to provide a detailed history of undergrad, undergrad major, desired research interest, PhD or other graduate degree history or interest, etc. it would be easier to pinpoint. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20781933) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 5:12 PM Author: Fuchsia Station Background Story if you got yls this would be a tougher decision
but considering its pretty fucking hard to get academia from H anyway, you should just go to LS for free. i sense lots of people ITT had their parents pay for school or something because 150k is a shitload of debt--freedom is awesome |
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Date: May 29th, 2012 12:18 PM Author: wonderful olive step-uncle's house dingle berry I think I agree with this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20786457) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 11:25 PM Author: coiffed mauve faggotry meetinghouse Take the money. Most likely you are going to be working in biglaw either way. At least have a fucking penny to show for it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1939631&forum_id=2#20783843) |
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Date: May 28th, 2012 11:42 PM Author: zippy clown HLS
drops panties
UMich
half the V25 dropped out of OCI 2009 |