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Have yet to hear a single valid argument against antinatalism
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:23 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism#David_Benatar (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572427) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:36 PM Author: ruby tanning salon oh, my god! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572532) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:41 PM Author: bisexual pozpig senate You mean "an argument for natilism" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34579592) |
Date: October 31st, 2017 4:25 PM Author: big onyx university deer antler There is none. Antinatalism is obvious, but most people can't stomach it. Hard to blame them. The entire human endeavor is just a framework of repressional mechanisms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572446) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:27 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker i think it's a valid explanation of the fermi paradox. once a civilization reaches a threshold intelligence/wisdom they realize existence is flame and choose to go extinct (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572460) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 9:59 AM Author: bearded kink-friendly knife skinny woman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34578079) |
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Date: April 24th, 2020 3:59 PM Author: Beady-eyed police squad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#40085764) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:27 PM Author: Sexy erotic stag film Have you read Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids?
How about this - philosophy and arguments are flame. You're programmed to prefer your kin, and your kids are close kin. Hence your best bet at creating people you like, on a deep level, is to have a bunch of kids. |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:33 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker thats just childfree
antinatalism goes a step further and says all procreation is unethical - humans, animals, basically anything that can suffer
an antinatalist wouldnt want to create a person they like because they would be sentencing them to suffering and ultimately death. if anything, they would be ok with creating people they *don't* like for the same reasons
read this scholarship for more info: http://cnqzu.com/library/Philosophy/David_Benatar_-_Better_Never_to_Have_Been.pdf |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:34 PM Author: odious jewess you missed the part where he said "philosophy and arguments are flame". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572511) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:35 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker thats like entering a christian theological debate and declaring that the bible is flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572524) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:35 PM Author: big onyx university deer antler But death and suffering sure aren't. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572525) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:37 PM Author: adventurous emerald gaming laptop roommate YOU MISSED THE PART WHERE HE SAID THAT IF YOU ASSUME DAMNING A LIVING, FEELING BEING TO A LIFETIME OF SUFFERING HAS NO MORAL DIMENSION, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT BRO (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572552) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:38 PM Author: big onyx university deer antler OH YEAH LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572564) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 9:59 AM Author: bearded kink-friendly knife skinny woman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34578082) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:40 PM Author: wild community account library not everyone is wired like XO posters are, sorry bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572581) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 10:00 AM Author: bearded kink-friendly knife skinny woman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34578083) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 2:08 PM Author: Hyperventilating Trip Macaca (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34579777) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:39 PM Author: Sexy erotic stag film Seems like an imponderable and hence a waste of time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572571) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:35 PM Author: lake laser beams tank I would rather raise a genetically engineered kid than my own kid. in fact, I would rather someone else raise the genetically engineered kid. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572519) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 5:20 PM Author: Exciting Hideous Hall (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572980) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 5:22 PM Author: Sexy erotic stag film Deal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572991) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:36 PM Author: flushed gaping Well, even if you credit it as a moral philosophy, the practical effect is that people too-stupid or too-selfish to implement it are the only ones having kids. That doesn't sound like it will help the world. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572536) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:37 PM Author: charismatic address something is better than nothing another good argument is that humans evolved to value LIVING/survival above all else. you are bounded by that evolutionary imperative. so by definition 'not wanting to live/exist' is a diseased viewpoint, however you believe you have intellectualized it. it's a sign of malfunction. you should question the coherence/motive of your arguments. |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:40 PM Author: big onyx university deer antler You don't understand antinatalism. It isn't about wanting to survive, it's about not coming into existence in the first place. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572576) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:42 PM Author: charismatic address no, I do understand it, you stupid faggot. but saying "I wish I [and the human race] HAD never existed" is as equally deranged as saying "I wish I didn't exist right now". |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:46 PM Author: big onyx university deer antler Explain why it is deranged then. we "evolved" to want to survive yet are still conscious of the absurdity of it. Evolution is impersonal and inhuman, it doesn't have any moral dimension. Consciousness is what makes us human and also what makes us very unfortunate as prisoners of the cosmos. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572645) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:47 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker no it's not
if "you" HAD never existed the world would go on. someone else would take your place (ie your parents having another child). someone else would be your wife's husband, your boss's employee, etc. no one would even know or care that "you" never existed. there are an infinite amount of people who never existed for whatever reason (eg some guy got whiskey dick when he tried to hook up with a chick)
saying you wish you didn't exist RIGHT NOW is problematic. you would cause suffering to your family, friends, loved ones, etc. your boss would be scrambling to find a replacement to generate more revenue for shareholders |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:41 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker "something is better than nothing" -> so an african baby born with AIDS who starves and dies is better than if he never existed?
per benatar: the absence of pain is good, even if that good is not enjoyed by anyone;the absence of pleasure is not bad unless there is somebody for whom this absence is a deprivation
it's not "not wanting to live." once we exist we should make the most of it and seek meaning however we can.
it's about bringing more life into the world |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:45 PM Author: Spruce Concupiscible Scourge Upon The Earth Stage it's not pat benatar bro its david benatar (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572620) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:42 PM Author: Cracking black woman Biological predetermination ceases to be a valid argument for any sort of philosophy for macro human behavior when we are actively developing AIs, have enslaved the other beasts of the planet, and we're married to our smart phones that can access 90% of all human knowledge instantly while we wait for ARE chicken tenders basket that we were able to pay for with money we found in between our car seats. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572589) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:44 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker does the other 10% require a jstor account? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572614) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 5:10 PM Author: Cracking black woman Paywalls are the barbarian sackings of the 21st Century. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572896) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 4:46 PM Author: Spruce Concupiscible Scourge Upon The Earth Stage http://www.knunst.com/planetzapffe/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Interview-Colin-Feltham-2014.pdf (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572640) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 5:10 PM Author: Cracking black woman God (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572897) |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 5:17 PM Author: Ocher Nofapping Son Of Senegal Doctorate reddit is that way --> (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34572969) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:46 PM Author: racy carnelian sweet tailpipe dilemma /r/philosophy is awful
op should hie there |
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Date: October 31st, 2017 10:21 PM Author: Swashbuckling indian lodge nowag Antinatalism says that life is worthless or net bad, right? Sounds like the projection of a depressedmo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34575563) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 9:11 AM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker The fact that there are depressed people and depression seems to be rising in modern countries is actually an argument for antinatalism (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34577753) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:46 PM Author: racy carnelian sweet tailpipe dilemma it's an argument for religion, actually (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34579637) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 9:43 AM Author: Sexy erotic stag film The arguments against universal genocide seem unconvincing, if you buy antinatalism. Why the half measures? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34577985) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 10:38 AM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker death is also bad and often involves pain, suffering, etc. an antinatalist would rather everyone make a purposeful choice not to reproduce and have life die out that way |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 10:41 AM Author: Sexy erotic stag film Non-responsive. Yes death is bad but everybody is going to die, so sooner is better than later, if you accept antinatalist arguments.
Stating antinatalists would prefer voluntary cessation of reproduction is not an argument as to why they're not in favor of universal genocide. |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:47 PM Author: racy carnelian sweet tailpipe dilemma the integral of the pain of normal life summed over a lifespan most assuredly outweighs the integral of pain of a bullet in the brain over an infinitesimally small span of time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34579644) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 9:59 AM Author: ungodly stubborn filthpig hahahahha anti-natalism is seriously some brainlet shit. if you haven't grown out of that by your mid-20s you need to put a little more effort into not being a pussy
read some nietzsche, exercise regularly, take stims or test supplements if you have to. stop being a bitch and embrace life for what it is |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 9:59 AM Author: Sexy erotic stag film FYI author of the linked book defending it is a vegan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34578080) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 10:48 AM Author: ungodly stubborn filthpig imagine my shock (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34578417) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 10:50 AM Author: Sexy erotic stag film He's also a white dude who lives in South Africa. Who knows why he doesn't just killself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34578431) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:22 PM Author: appetizing up-to-no-good spot factory reset button (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34579456) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:30 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker Embracing life for it is doesn't mean bringing more life into existence or being supportive of those who do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34579504) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:50 PM Author: ungodly stubborn filthpig yes, actually it does. if you believe life to be inherently good, then embracing life does in fact lead to bringing more life into existence as being inherently good.
if you can't tell already, i also used to be a mopey, depressed early-20s pussy - just like you. i'm here to tell you that you can overcome this condition and turn yourself into a real man. |
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Date: May 22nd, 2024 5:25 PM Author: Mahogany casino This is a ridiculous argument. What you're saying is that you're ready to gamble the lives of whatever children you bring to this world, so if one of them is meant to be run over by a truck, you will be happy to see him die that way, and you will think he was tough and brave to face his demise. You're an idiot. You're just doing what the masses want because you're a cowardly retard who thinks by wanting to overpopulate the world he shows he's alpha and "not immature or depressed", LMAO. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#47684160) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 10:50 AM Author: Ocher Nofapping Son Of Senegal Doctorate if you take antinatalism seriously, isn't the logical next step suicide? Provided you can do it painlessly of course. If not whats the distinction? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34578429) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:20 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker No
There is a significant difference between a life worth starting and a life worth continuing
In his book Benatar compares life to a movie. Imagine that you paid to go see a movie and it ends up being disappointing half-way throughout compared to your expectations. Yet you might not leave because you'll tell yourself that 'you paid for it so might as well stay' or that it 'might get better later on', however if you had the possibility to go back, get your money and not start seeing the movie, you would probably take it.
Well it's the same thing with life, the movie of life might suck for a lot of people, but since it's already started most people will not be willing to leave in the middle and will tolerate far more than if they were offered the opportunity of never having been born. |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:21 PM Author: Sexy erotic stag film His argument depends on the sunk cost fallacy? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34579450) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:29 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker Sunk cost fallacy actually applies to natalism. Billions of lives have existed, served no purpose, and achieved nothing.
There's also the prospect that death is scary and would hurt those around you. So no, antinatalism does not naturally lead to suicide, although antinatalists are more understanding of those who are suicidal and use it as an argument not to bring any more suicidal people into existnce.
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:32 PM Author: Sexy erotic stag film So yes? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34579513) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:39 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker His argument doesn't depend on one "fallacy." I really would like to hear a valid and well reasoned argument against it but haven't heard anything close so far. It's an idea that, once you realize it to be true, there's no going back at least not on an intellectual level.
What's your justification for bringing sentient life into existence, knowing very well it will suffer and die? |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:41 PM Author: ungodly stubborn filthpig "What's your justification for bringing sentient life into existence, knowing very well it will suffer and die?"
i'm not a whiny solipsistic faggot
checkmate anti-natalists |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:42 PM Author: Sexy erotic stag film You've already made up your mind, and displayed poor etiquette by evading direct questions. No fun to debate and no chance of changing your mind.
I don't feel the need to justify either my existence or choice to bring more life into the world; philosophy exists to serve man, not man philosophy. |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:50 PM Author: racy carnelian sweet tailpipe dilemma "What's your justification for bringing sentient life into existence, knowing very well it will suffer and die?"
because odds are it will experience more pain than pleasure, and it is a fallacy to define pain or pleasure as merely absence of the other - this misthought is antinatalist flame |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:49 PM Author: racy carnelian sweet tailpipe dilemma (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34579652) |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:49 PM Author: racy carnelian sweet tailpipe dilemma "Yet you might not leave because you'll tell yourself that 'you paid for it so might as well stay'"
there's no way a serious philosopher commits such a brazen sunk-cost fallacy |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 1:56 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker The fallacy, if there even is one, doesn't disprove antinatalism or Benetars other arguments. There's still the fundamental issue of creating new life destined to suffer and die.
I was just reading around and actually did come across a reasonable argument against at least implementing the the voluntary extinction right now. If we did that then there would still be animals around getting eaten by each other and suffering. We need to raise our consciousness to a level where we can neuter every animal so they go extinct and then do the same to our own species |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 2:00 PM Author: Dashing chartreuse nibblets Just assume that there is a moral obligation to have a kid if that kid would be happy and a moral obligation not to have a kid if that kid would be unhappy.
Antinatalists assume there is no moral obligation to have a kid even if that kid would be happy; therefore, not having kids dominates having kids in their moral framework.
But the antinatalist assumption that there is no moral obligation to have a kid if that kid would be happy doesn’t seem clear. |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 2:09 PM Author: Hyperventilating Trip Macaca This was my critique after reading the Wikipedia article.
Lol at the assumption that there's a duty to minimize suffering but no corresponding duty to maximize happiness. Seems totally contrived. |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 9:55 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker We are doing "good" by encouraging a crackwhore homeless bitch not to have kids
We are not doing "bad" by encouraging a neurosurgeon not to have kids |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 10:21 PM Author: Dashing chartreuse nibblets according to ur antinatalist page, we are doing good by encouraging a crackwhore homeless bitch not to have kids if and only if that kid would be unhappy. same wrt the neurosurgeon. you sure you understand ur philosophy?
and the assumption that we're not doing bad by encouraging a parent not to have kids even though that kid would be happy is the critical assumption made by antinatalists and needs proving. if it's false the antinatalist argument falls apart |
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Date: November 1st, 2017 2:10 PM Author: big onyx university deer antler Ultimately a useless thought exercise, just as useless as trying to persuade the general population of antinatalism. How do you measure an ethical phantom like "happiness". And how do you know the child will be "happy"? You don't, that's the problem. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#34579795) |
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Date: November 4th, 2017 9:53 PM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker Response to jordan Peterson on antinatalism
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T1P-VKwrhkI |
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Date: April 24th, 2020 3:58 PM Author: black house JP got blown out here (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#40085758) |
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Date: April 24th, 2020 3:58 PM Author: black house weak showing by twins ITT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#40085749) |
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Date: December 20th, 2020 9:35 AM Author: Swollen Contagious Set Windowlicker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3781180&forum_id=2#41583336) |