and as somebody else noted, the main office looks like a howard johnson.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12128277)

come on. bank $3 million in one year and quit or lateral out (assuming you like legal practice, which i guess you would if you stuck it out enough to make partner at a sweatshop like sullcrom).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12128329)

if you go in-house, ball's in your court.

if you lateral, sullcrom is your competition anyway.

if you retire and go to some caribbean island, you have $3 million (minus taxes + savings from 8 years associate salary/bonuses) in the bank.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12128400)

I have done nothing but govt work, so I know shit about this; however, I plan on BIGTEXLAW after clerking, barring a persistent ITE.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12145979)

Say the firm's PPP and retained assets breaks down to $1,000 per-unit this year.

8th year associate is elected to partnership. He has to buy the 500 units for a junior partner at the per-unit value of $1,000 per-unit. He thus makes a capital contribution of $500k to the firm. He most likely takes out a loan for that amount, either from the firm, or the firm refers him to a friendly bank.

Each year afterwards he'll have to buy an additional 150 units (making a capital contribution dependent upon that year's unit value each year) until 10 years later he has the max 2000 units.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12146391)

You make more over time, increasing up to a certain limit.

First year partner does not take home 3m.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12660680)

During orientation, they'll give you an S&C shoulderbag and you'll wear it with the S&C logo facing outward so any other commuters in the know can see it and you'll just know that they're either impressed or envious. And that will make you happy and proud. And then you'll try to figure out the best way to ensure that you're sworn in as soon as possible after receiving your bar results because then you'll get the box full of business cards that say "Sullivan & Cromwell LLP" with your actual name underneath. You'll be giddy at the thought of casually passing one (mid-conversation) to some acquaintance from undergrad you've lost touch with.

You'll start working and you'll notice that there are an awful lot of "Farewell" emails and someone will tell you that the farewell emails can only contain 4 names at a time per firm policy because the partners decided sometime in 2004 that emails indicating 6 or 7 people were leaving the firm in a two week period might cause some unhelpful whispering. You'll talk to a midlevel associate who is super-psyched to work at S&C and you'll find out that he (not a lot of shes) lateralled from some firm that frankly you would never have considered working for (too TTT for you). When you get back to your office, this will trouble you a bit, you'll wonder if your own escutcheon is being blemished by the presence of this type of person (i.e., non-elite) at your S&C. But that feeling will pass as you'll find plenty of other like-minded first years who equally relish the prestige as you you head for a drink at Ulysses (shoulderbag logo facing outward).

Then you'll get staffed on your first big deal and you'll work late night after late night and then on the weekend and on to the next weekend and then on to the weekend when you had planned to go to a friend's wedding. And you won't go because the work has to get done and you have dues to pay (or so you'll be told). You'll get a little bit upset about this turn of events, but the arrival of those business cards will soften the blow.

You'll meet more and more laterals from firms that you would never work for (some you've never even heard of). You'll note in the farewell emails that some of the junior and midlevel associates leaving S&C are going to those very same firms. Survival of the fittest you'll say. But late at night, when the air conditioning clicks down from a barely perceptible hissing sound to complete silence, these things will bother you. But you'll tell yourself you're just tired and frustrated and anyway you have work to do.

You'll have lunch with Rodge and he'll tell you that business is good and that he's listening to associates' concerns about quality of life issues. You'll notice that some of the senior associates visibly roll their eyes at each other when this comes up, but you won't mind that much because, really, what other firm's managing partner regulalry has lunch with associates to hear their concerns (and takes notes!)

A few months will pass, a few marathon deals will happen, you'll have to re-schedule a vacation but you'll tell yourself that that is to be expected.

About a year in, a couple of your classmates will crack and start talking about how much the job sucks. They'll very likely have gone to Yale Law School. You'll joke that they couldn't hack it when they leave the firm for a clerkship, or an academic position or to go to a firm in another city.

Things will go on in this pattern and you'll notice the fact that you're working a lot harder than your friends who went to "peer" firms. At first you'll be proud of this and brag about it, but after a while you'll find yourself downplaying it. At least when you have the time to get out and socialize with your law school friends.

Something will happen: a partner will scream at you, a senior associate gunning for partner will blame you for her mistake, the partner will tell you that the trip to Europe your spouse meticulously planned just won't be able to happen (he'll be really sorry and will tell you a funny story about the exotic vacation he missed or cut short). Doesn't matter what, but you'll get really pissed and you'll start to take some of the 4 or 5 calls from headhunters that you'll receive every day at that point (vultures spell blood). They'll give you the names of firms that you laughed on in the days when you posted on the XOXO board, but you'll find yourself looking into them. The headhunter will encourage to just listen to their offer and you'll consider doing so. But you won't leave because then you'd have to give up your business cards. And stop wearing the shoulder bag. And the bonus is only x months away so you'll start thinking about it then.

Until one day you won't be able to take it any more and you'll find yourself arranging to meet with people from a lightly regarded firm for a position in their New York office. And you'll worry that the XOXO crowd will see you.

And you don't believe any of this will happen, but I suggest you print this out and keep it in the top desk of your drawer so late at night when you're feeling sorry for yourself, you can add to the list of reasons to be miserable this fact: someone told you this was going to happen and you thought that person was crazy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12128270)

If the aim was riches, you're walking the wrong path.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12128967)

"But the same pay is worth it for the prestige!!"

ORLY? Just wait until your first weekend binge working with the most terrible assholes you've ever encountered. I'm not about to name any names on here, but the people at S&C are terrible, from the very top down to the fucking security guards who patrol the lobby. This place is Orwell's giant boot stomping on mankind's face for eternity. S&C is a horrible, horrible place to work. The money isn't worth it anymore, and that's really all this place could ever offer. Now that it pays shit bonuses there is really no point. Me and a lot of others will be out of this miserybox as soon as possible. You can thank the economy for having anyone willing to take you to lunch and spend the shameful $500 per associate recruiting limit. If anyone were honest they would tell you to stay far, far away from this hellpit.

Here's what happens at S&C: you are expected to give up everything for this place. EVERYTHING. Nothing can be as important as the firm. In good years, you were compensated for this, to the extent that a sum of money is "worth" sacrificing your personal relationships, health and mental stability. Now, all you get is a giant fist up your ass.

And it's not the hours that make this place so bad. Those partners who seem so down to earth? Just wait. We have basement-dwelling virgin partners who make the devil himself jealous. Imagine having not a fucking thing to do for two days, then getting an "emergency" assignment on Friday night at 7 pm. No problem, you can bill 30 hours over the weekend to take care of the "emergency." You'll be a little upset when you find out there was no emergency whatsoever, but you'll try to get past it. Until this happens over and over and over again. And don't for a moment think you'll be treated like a human being while this happens-- I hope you can deal with being called all sorts of colorful insults, being treated like a child and being verbally shat on constantly. And when you manage to do a great job on something? Silence.

One thing that's always good to do is to look at the laterals that come to S&C. Some stay. But time and time again, you see recent laterals quitting. Why? Wouldn't someone who finally landed ultra-prestigious S&C stick it out? No, because even several years in NYC biglaw--widely regarded as the most intense and stressful environment for practicing law--is NOT NEARLY AS BAD AS S&C. We are really so terrible that other biglaw lawyers can't stand to work here for longer than a few months. Ask around; this happens all the time.

And that leads me to my last point: if all the good people quit, who do you think stays? The most miserable, money-hungry, abusive douchebags you WILL EVER ENCOUNTER. I am not exaggerating-- this office is a veritable douchebag zoo. And now that the economy sucks, you don't even get paid anything decent to be here. Nevermind the fact that S&C DID BETTER in 2006 than in 2007; bonuses in 2007 were still HALF of what they were in 2006. Why? Because they could be. This firm will screw you hard and stealth lay you off. And that's if you're lucky-- if you stay on, you have nothing to look forward to but constant misery.

SUMMARY: not jealous.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12128891)

Date: June 30th, 2009 11:07 PM

Author: chargedd

long as i'm rich and i can brag about it online.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12128941)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12129024)

[Yeah, I know, but I figured as long as this was a dbag thread anyway, I'd stay in the spirit...]

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12150271)

which way are you leaning?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12661151)

Reason: LOL

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12660418)

you couldn't pay me enough to work in that shithole sweatshop. i'd rather work some shit city gov job and actually enjoy my dwindling years of youth.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12660582)

"Well no, we have the exact same chair."

"You're jealous."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12660592)

I make 60-70k

I have 20k in loans

I am the boss, i.e., unless all/almost all my recurring clients fire me at once, I cannot be laid off

My overhead is ridiculous--~300-500/month then its just taxes.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#12661262)

But I do.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031051&forum_id=2#16225332)