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Should I buy a gun
Poast new message in this thread
Date: July 1st, 2020 6:40 PM Author: Tan spectacular whorehouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530618) |
Date: July 1st, 2020 6:41 PM Author: shivering razzmatazz school i was just looking around the other night. the ones available at the range i'm going to are expensive as FUCK. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530628) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:42 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle confused den mental disorder Nah. America is a stable, safe country. You have nothing to worry about. Btw, how's that drooling problem working out for you? Any progress there?
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:45 PM Author: Dull Native Idea He Suggested Yes - I am trying to talk my wife in this direction. She is very resistant. I proposed just getting an AR15 and she was like I don’t want the kids to get a hold of it. It’s difficult. She said if there is trouble, we will just call the police. I told her that we can no longer rely upon the police. Especially because we are white. She stared at me blankly. I said, “think of the children!” Her countenance darkened and she steamed “I am!” and stormed off. |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:52 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle confused den mental disorder Just get a good gun safe. Whats the problem? Get two safes, keep guns in one, ammo in the other. Use combo locks and put keys to one into the other so if a combo lock fails you can get keys and open it manually. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530689) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 11:11 AM Author: red station Your wife shouldn't be involved in this decision. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40534326) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 3:37 PM Author: razzle space Lololol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40536142) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 9:49 AM Author: Sooty godawful national security agency Getting one of these is a good way to sell the idea to the wife, as long as its really a safety issue and not a lib issue.
https://www.shotlock.com/ |
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Date: July 9th, 2020 4:31 PM Author: chrome public bath mood Strong post-moniker synergy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40575709) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:46 PM Author: gaped magical set The answer is always yes.
How many do you have now? What kinds? I'll tell you what to get next.
Also what state? |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:47 PM Author: Dull Native Idea He Suggested I need recommendations. New York State. 0 guns so far in the house. Scared wife, 4 small children. I was thinking my first gun should be an AR 15. |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:52 PM Author: gaped magical set 1) https://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/firearms/shotguns/pump-action-shotguns/pc/104792580/c/553829580/sc/105537780/i/104803380/remington-model-express-compact-pump-action-shotguns/709956.uts?slotId=1
2) https://www.cabelas.com/product/Beretta-PX-Semiautomatic-Pistols/706478.uts?slotId=10
3) https://www.vanceoutdoors.com/products2.cfm/ID/247223 |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:53 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot cant get a real AR unless you buy fixed mag
mini-14 ranch is legal and fun. so are pistol mag carbines (ruger pc4/pc9, etc) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 9:43 AM Author: Sooty godawful national security agency You can get one with a detachable mag as long as it has no features that look scary to libs, as long as you live outside the city. I have one with a Thordsen stock. Not ideal, but only takes like an hour or so to get used to. This is a company that is based in NY and mostly makes these kinds of ARs: https://www.dark-storm.com/ |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:04 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot what county? handgun will likely be impossible near-term. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530753) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:08 PM Author: Dull Native Idea He Suggested Suffolk (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530775) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:10 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot i think wait times on handguns were like 12+ months pre-covid (worse in suffolk than in NYC), so focus on getting a long gun. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530787) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 9:45 AM Author: Sooty godawful national security agency DSI all the way then. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40540280) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:14 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner You have plenty of options. https://www.campsitesportshop.com/html/firearms-rifles-ny-compliant.asp
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:19 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot now check availability... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530854) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:22 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner Yeah, that's going to be a HUGE problem. I'm worried that by the time they give me my permit I'll be limited to 19th century antiques. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530868) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:28 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot ha yeah, i'm still waiting on NYC
i have long guns outside the city in case things get really bad and i'm forced to leave, but that doesn't really help on a hour-to-hour, day-to-day basis |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:39 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner Not going to lie, if I were in NYC I would be gtfo right now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530975) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:40 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot eh, i was way more worried back in february / march than i am now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530985) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:41 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner Really? They just cut a billion dollars off of the NYPD budget and summer is always the worst time for crime. Combine with increasing racial tensions and the election coming up... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530995) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:25 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot i live in one of the safest parts of the city. i don't expect things to completely collapse here like they might elsewhere, at least not without warning.
have to wait and see how things go though i guess. |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 11:21 PM Author: supple orange center volcanic crater Good thing you have a mayor like De Blasio keeping the peace! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40532360) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 1:08 AM Author: Naked affirmative action home De Blasio is a moron but increased funding is not something that'll be an obstacle to legitimate law and order. They paid something north of $100mm for just overtime with the protests. I say this as a former lifelong NYCmo -- the city spends way the fuck too much on NYPD. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40532797) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 3:33 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner Your example shows the problem here. Imagine if they didn't pay for overtime with the protests. What do you imagine that would have looked like?
The city spends a lot on the NYPD because of generous retirement benefits and shit. Those aren't going away. The $1B is coming out of actual policing from new people making little money, not old timers that are protected and have vested benefits. |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:42 PM Author: Pea-brained plaza Please see: http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4573859&mc=3&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531006) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 11:14 AM Author: red station Just drive to a normal state and buy a gun. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40534343) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:42 PM Author: Pea-brained plaza Your shrew is going to block you from getting a gun. You’re going to cuck and cave.
Now go to this thread and accept my reasonable compromise. http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4573859&mc=3&forum_id=2 |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:18 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner Yeah, I wouldn't count on that. The way I finally got my gun purchase permit application in is my wife threw a fit that I was a lazy fucker sitting and playing a video game shooting someone in COD but if someone burst through our door right now we would get totally pwn3d.
Another woman at work approached me and asked me for advice on making her effete husband actually go to a gun store and get a gun and, in her words, "start acting like a man." When I told her I had just gotten my app in she said it was disgusting and that I should be ashamed of myself for not doing it sooner. This was a co-worker that if I had to guess her political persuasion before that day, I would guess super lib.
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:22 PM Author: Pea-brained plaza There are proper women who want to both virtue signal and still be protected and sadder around by a proper man. Then there are shrews. That guys wife sounds like the latter.
You should still get the pepper blaster for CCW in NY and for while you’re waiting on your permit. I have had one for years and carried it all over deep blue metro areas. |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:37 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner I mean, my wife is a corporate attorney that makes a solid UMC salary, and this lady at work was also making a solid UMC salary. Everyone involved is pretty "shrewy". None of these are SAHM types.
I've seen vids of various guys getting pwn3d lately. That shit won't come close to helping you. |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:46 PM Author: Pea-brained plaza It looks like a gun, emits a targeting laser, sounds like a gun when fired because it’s propelled by actual 9mm blanks, and shoots a stream of orange pepper gel 20+ feet hard enough to rupture someone’s eyeball if you’re closer than 5 ft.
If I still lived in a city, I’d like to be able to draw a gun looking thing and fire four shots that could incapacitate or scare an assailant or assailants. And because it’s pepper spray and not a lethal weapon you can use it much earlier in a confrontation. Seizing control of the ability to escalate the fight, rather than having to be reactive and wait for lethal force to be justified. |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:17 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner tcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530838) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 3:37 PM Author: razzle space (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40536147) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:46 PM Author: Naked affirmative action home I bought a handgun recently. You don't need an entire arsenal, and I'm not a big fan of how Americans glorify gun culture, but it's fine to have one, maybe two. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530657) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:48 PM Author: shivering razzmatazz school what did you pick up? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530672) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:49 PM Author: Naked affirmative action home PPK/S. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530678) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:57 PM Author: Snowy angry masturbator The .380 or the .22? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530718) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:00 PM Author: Naked affirmative action home .380, I think I read that's the only one they sell in the US now? I'm definitely not a gunmo. I don't shoot recreationally and honestly would probably never shoot to kill (it's not even loaded most of the time), I just figured I might as well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530732) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:24 PM Author: Misunderstood crotch heaven Nah the .22 is widely available and will probably end up being one of the next guns I buy. It will make a cool silencer host for my AAC Pilot and an upcoming form 1 build I will be doing as a winter project. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530883) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:43 PM Author: Naked affirmative action home Eh, if I'm in an encounter where chamber size is going to make a difference I'm fucked anyway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531015) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:53 PM Author: Snowy angry masturbator Yeah budsgunshop had 4 of the .22s in stock last night after a loooooong time of <><><>NOPPK<><><>
Was very close to copping one but fagged out. Idk, I feel like if I’m going to get one of those it should be a .380, for some reason I still want more “stopping power” than .22 in any gun I buy but need to get over that since I have enough handcannons of various types now. |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 1:17 AM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner Why .22LR over 5.56/.223? I get that it is a little cheaper but the latter is small enough to be easy/fun to shoot and still has plenty of usability in a combat situation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40532849) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 1:19 AM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot a ppk in 556? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40532861) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 1:26 AM Author: Naked affirmative action home Yeah, I think they're only in .380 and .22.
I'm a novice among novices but I also think that if you have to seriously worry about "stopping power" for a home defense weapon, you have bigger problems. I have a couple pretty expensive/sentimental pieces of jewelry, but if I shoot a dude in the leg while he's trying to pull my TV off the wall, I doubt he's getting very far regardless of caliber. |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:55 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot he cant easily buy a handgun in NY (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530706) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 6:58 PM Author: Naked affirmative action home I haven't lived in NY for a while now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530726) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:00 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot oops, thought OP was the NY guy above (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530733) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:02 PM Author: Naked affirmative action home I'm a former MFH-er but also not a pumo. Just bored today and decided to wade into this one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530741) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:16 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner Same in NJ. That's why I skipped it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530836) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:09 PM Author: hot fragrant box office halford Yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530777) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:17 PM Author: Tan spectacular whorehouse Update - purpose of gun would be to kill self (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530842) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:25 PM Author: Misunderstood crotch heaven Choose another method, we don't need faggots adding to the statistics leftists will use to disarm us non-depressedmos. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530887) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:31 PM Author: Tan spectacular whorehouse Good pt
Ideas?
I’d use a noose but am afraid of it being racist |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:32 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot don't do it, brother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530926) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 7:39 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40530977) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:43 PM Author: swashbuckling property selfie Google "Exit Bag" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531671) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 10:51 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot fuck that shit dirte (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40532169) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 8:43 PM Author: Laughsome fanboi macaca I just bought my first gun Monday. Glad I did. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531354) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:01 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner What did you get? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531455) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:45 PM Author: Laughsome fanboi macaca Springfield Hellcat pistol. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531699) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:47 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner Have you shot it yet?
Are you planning to CCW it? |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:50 PM Author: Laughsome fanboi macaca I have not shot it yet. I am planning to CCW. Taking some classes as soon as I can. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531747) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:47 PM Author: Pea-brained plaza High five! I also just grabbed one last week off of grab a gun. Very happy with it so far. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531729) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 11:39 AM Author: swashbuckling property selfie Is it better than the P365? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40534472) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 3:54 PM Author: Pea-brained plaza I’ve only shot a 365XL, which admittedly has a better trigger. I think it’s a toss up. I do like the RMSC optic so far, which is the big improvement for a fighting handgun.
I have a 1911 for a larger carry gun, so I was trying to go as small as possible. |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 9:48 AM Author: razzle space Great choice. High capacity small guns are excellent for CC (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40540304) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:11 PM Author: Nofapping amethyst background story state U do realize that unless u have some firearms experience and training, are most likely at risk to injure urself or family members when the moment arrives (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531489) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:18 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner Everyone getting guns should invest in some range time. Absolutely everyone. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531521) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:20 PM Author: Nofapping amethyst background story state I’m talking about night vision, fighting ability and close quarters encounters with a home invader (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531534) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:25 PM Author: Pea-brained plaza Turn on the lights when you hear your driveway alert chime go off. Open gun safe and retrieve gun. Post up at the top of your stairs. Have wife call the police (ljl). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531555) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:41 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner lolwut? No one in a home invasion is putting on NV equipment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531651) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:42 PM Author: Domesticated startling faggotry crackhouse ok Fudd (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531660) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:45 PM Author: unhinged adventurous university gunner If I was hardcore would I sleep in NV equipment or what? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531696) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:50 PM Author: Nofapping amethyst background story state Watch the last episode of better call Saul; u will be attacked by a predator with nothing to defend urself; a gun is just a metaphor for readiness (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531751) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 1:21 AM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot (guy who owns still creased cryes and silly oakley knuckle gloves) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40532870) |
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Date: July 9th, 2020 3:30 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40575311) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:42 PM Author: Diverse theatre we're gonna need tactical training from the sig sauer academy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531665) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 10:52 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot portsmouth is a really cool town (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40532182) |
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Date: July 1st, 2020 9:53 PM Author: Naked affirmative action home And some actual training. It's not like learning to make pasta sauce. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40531768) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 11:10 AM Author: red station You would have to be an idiot to not own at least 1 decent firearm and some ammo for it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40534320) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 11:43 AM Author: opaque hospital roast beef every adult male should own a carbine rifle with a good scope, a double barrel shotgun, and a .40 or higher caliber handgun. you should practice with the handgun and rifle in a 3:1 ratio. you should use several times to familiarize yourself with the shotgun but once you are comfortable with it, have it cleaned and loaded and you don't need to waste range time with it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40534503) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 1:03 PM Author: chrome public bath mood What’s a good starter rifle for $500 or under? I have the others u recommend. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40535032) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 1:06 PM Author: Pea-brained plaza https://ruger.com/products/pcCarbine/specSheets/19100.html (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40535045) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 1:12 PM Author: chrome public bath mood Would I need to add my own scope? How much is one of those? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40535073) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 1:59 PM Author: Pea-brained plaza That gun functions perfectly well with iron sights, but I’d still get a red dot. Holosun if you can swing it.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=holosun&ref=is_s |
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Date: July 9th, 2020 3:33 PM Author: stirring blathering stock car parlor Red dot sights are bad advice for casual gun owners because they are battery powered and typically block the iron sights.
If you take your rifle out every 6 months for a trip to the range and it otherwise sits in your closet, you won't know if the battery dies. If you grab the gun in an emergency and the battery is dead, you won't be able to use the iron sights.
Just get good with iron sights. With a little practice, you can be proficient up to 75 or 100 yards with iron sights. |
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Date: July 9th, 2020 3:42 PM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot that (75 or 100 yds) is probably pushing it for a normal dude with an iron sights pcc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40575396) |
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Date: July 9th, 2020 3:49 PM Author: Pea-brained plaza Most red dots have battery life measured in years. Mine illuminates only when it detects motion and is rated for 50K hours on a single battery. I change it annually anyway from the handful of spares that I keep in a bag with my gun cleaning kit.
And if all of that fails it has a solar failsafe.
https://www.holosun.com/index/product/detail/id/128.html |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 2:24 AM Author: Hairless Fat Ankles Spot those will be $1000+, no? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40539643) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 1:06 PM Author: flirting brindle headpube reading party (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40535043) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2020 1:06 PM Author: Pea-brained plaza (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40535049) |
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Date: July 3rd, 2020 9:50 AM Author: razzle space Agreed except.40 caliber part (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574550&forum_id=2#40540313) |