\
  The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
BackRefresh Options Favorite

My take on Ricci

Not that anyone cares, but...
frozen water buffalo
  07/01/09
The best solution: Congress should revise disparate impact l...
frozen water buffalo
  07/01/09
Anybody? Nobody?
frozen water buffalo
  07/01/09
she has a fivehead but was hot in buffalo 66
exciting lay dragon
  07/01/09
Haven't seen Buffalo 66, but agree on the fivehead.
frozen water buffalo
  07/01/09
I haven't seen Buffalo 66 in years.
Electric dingle berry ratface
  07/02/09
loved her sass in the Opposite of Sex. Looks better with a b...
coral trailer park toaster
  07/02/09
pick two of three: 1. government jobs shouldn't be award...
geriatric spectacular incel abode
  07/01/09
I choose 1 (absent some really narrow exceptions) I think...
frozen water buffalo
  07/01/09
dropping 3 isn't an option for urban police forces. just is...
geriatric spectacular incel abode
  07/01/09
EXPLAIN
frozen water buffalo
  07/01/09
you can't have a major urban city patrolled by 95% white guy...
geriatric spectacular incel abode
  07/01/09
I still disagree with "any test that has disparate resu...
frozen water buffalo
  07/01/09
we have to cheat a little when giving out police jobs. and ...
geriatric spectacular incel abode
  07/01/09
Sorry, can't agree with you there. However, I think evalu...
frozen water buffalo
  07/01/09
fucking brilliant
Concupiscible grizzly knife
  07/02/09
"It is not clear to me that there was no "strong b...
tantric trip theater stage fat ankles
  07/01/09
That's really what I meant (also, citing to the syllabus? t...
frozen water buffalo
  07/01/09
Didn't have time to look through the rest of the opinion for...
tantric trip theater stage fat ankles
  07/01/09
I don't disagree that the test weighting is facially neutral...
frozen water buffalo
  07/01/09
translation: liberal social engineering is tarded.
stimulating azn field
  07/02/09
who cares about this boring case?
Fishy milk
  07/02/09
...
stirring topaz fortuitous meteor
  07/02/09
...
stirring topaz fortuitous meteor
  07/02/09
I guess people have moved on.
frozen water buffalo
  07/02/09


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 6:31 PM
Author: frozen water buffalo
Subject: Not that anyone cares, but...

Ultimately, I think it would have been reasonable to remand for trial, or to address the constitutional issue w/r/t remedying disparate impact law. The "strong basis in evidence" standard seems ill-defined.

Kennedy's majority opinion correctly recognizes tension between the disparate impact law and disparate treatment law, and correctly recognizes that scrapping the results of a test due to the racial makeup of those that pass is a negative employment action based on race, constituting disparate treatment.

The majority's decision that a "strong basis in fact" for a disparate impact claim is needed to engage in this type of disparate treatment, seems reasonable, though I have no idea if it is justified as a matter of law. Seems like the kind of arbitrary legal standard SCOTUS is apt to set.

It is not clear to me that there was no "strong basis in fact" for a disparate impact suit, based on the dissent's characterization of disparate impact law. Seems like it's *really fucking hard* to get out of a disparate impact suit if there is, in fact, a disparate impact. I don't buy the majority's excuse that 60/40 weighting was a clearly sufficient "business necessity" based on the union contract such that no disparate impact suit could get anywhere.

Maybe remand on this issue would have been better.

Scalia's concurrence is right on, and maybe they should have addressed this issue.

Alito's concurrence is right that the plaintiffs's claim should at least survive summary judgment on the grounds that a reasonably jury could find the fear of litigation was a pretext.

Ginsburg's dissent:

It's BS that the dissent appears to adopt the district court's rationale that scrapping the test because of racially disparate results isn't disparate treatment in the first place. Of course it is. You're making a negative employment decision on the basis of race. It doesn't matter whether the good test-takers had a "vested interest" in promotion, you can't refuse to hire a job applicant based on race regardless of his/her lack of a "vested interest" in the job.

Without explicitly saying so, the dissent is pervaded by the notion that unequal results = unequal opportunity, and that a test producing a racially balanced result is a "better" test.

However, assuming the dissent accurately portrays the law prior to this opinion, the City might have had a hard time justifying it's procedures under the "business necessity" rule, especially the 60/40 weighting of the tests.

There seems to be sufficient facts that a reasonable jury could find that another form of testing would have taken account of the needed characteristics w/o a disparate racial impact.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12135409)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 6:34 PM
Author: frozen water buffalo

The best solution: Congress should revise disparate impact law. Probably not going to happen.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12135439)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 6:59 PM
Author: frozen water buffalo

Anybody? Nobody?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12135663)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 6:59 PM
Author: exciting lay dragon

she has a fivehead but was hot in buffalo 66

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12135666)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:08 PM
Author: frozen water buffalo

Haven't seen Buffalo 66, but agree on the fivehead.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12135739)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 2nd, 2009 12:14 AM
Author: Electric dingle berry ratface

I haven't seen Buffalo 66 in years.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12138696)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 2nd, 2009 11:29 AM
Author: coral trailer park toaster

loved her sass in the Opposite of Sex. Looks better with a bit of meat on her.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12140910)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:16 PM
Author: geriatric spectacular incel abode

pick two of three:

1. government jobs shouldn't be awarded on the basis of race, either overtly or tacitly.

2. to determine who gets government jobs, objective, anonymous testing is appropriate.

3. given the awful history of racial exclusion in our economy (including in the awarding of government jobs), any government hiring system that results in under-performance by blacks and hispanics must be rejected.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12135832)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:30 PM
Author: frozen water buffalo

I choose 1 (absent some really narrow exceptions)

I think 2 may be applicable in some cases, but not necessarily all.

I reject 3.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12135940)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:32 PM
Author: geriatric spectacular incel abode

dropping 3 isn't an option for urban police forces. just isn't.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12135950)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:37 PM
Author: frozen water buffalo

EXPLAIN

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12136006)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:39 PM
Author: geriatric spectacular incel abode

you can't have a major urban city patrolled by 95% white guys. just isn't going to work. and by "not work" i mean riots, violence, complete non-cooperation with cops, you name it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12136024)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:41 PM
Author: frozen water buffalo

I still disagree with "any test that has disparate results = unacceptable" as a proposition.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12136048)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:46 PM
Author: geriatric spectacular incel abode

we have to cheat a little when giving out police jobs. and so it's better if we do it and lie about it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12136091)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:54 PM
Author: frozen water buffalo

Sorry, can't agree with you there.

However, I think evaluating "knowledge of the community" is totally valid in determining who should be policing a community.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12136157)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 2nd, 2009 1:50 PM
Author: Concupiscible grizzly knife

fucking brilliant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12141897)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:35 PM
Author: tantric trip theater stage fat ankles

"It is not clear to me that there was no "strong basis in fact" for a disparate impact suit, based on the dissent's characterization of disparate impact law. Seems like it's *really fucking hard* to get out of a disparate impact suit if there is, in fact, a disparate impact. I don't buy the majority's excuse that 60/40 weighting was a clearly sufficient "business necessity" based on the union contract such that no disparate impact suit could get anywhere."

I think this is off, based on Kennedy's opinion. It's not "strong basis in fact for a disparate impact suit" as the new standard, but strong basis in fact for disparate impact LIABILITY. (see page 2 of the Ricci opinion's syllabus, part b).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12135988)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:40 PM
Author: frozen water buffalo

That's really what I meant (also, citing to the syllabus? tsk, tsk).

But based at least on Ginsburg's summary of disparate impact law, it seems like there's a pretty strong case for disparate impact liability (which seems ridiculous, but the law seems sort of ridiculous) since the city didn't provide much of a rationale for a 60/40 written/oral test weighting.

On second thought, though, there wasn't *really* strong evidence that some other test would have produced non-disparate results. Maybe that's the key, the the standard seems unclear at best.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12136034)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:47 PM
Author: tantric trip theater stage fat ankles

Didn't have time to look through the rest of the opinion for more than the syllabus just now.

I read Ginsburg's dissent, but I don't see why the 60/40 written/oral test weighting heightens the likelihood of finding liability. Written or multiple choice components make a test much more objective, and I've mentioned this in other threads, but the practice of written or multiple choice examinations for promotion to leadership positions within a fire station seems eminently reasonable, if not desirable, since leadership positions require a much more advanced knowledge of firefighting principles, techniques, structural dynamics, and combustion principles, than your regular firefigher is expected to know. I could see the 60/40 test being more questionable for entry level firefighters...

But maybe that's where the dissent and majority simply disagree. Personally, I think the dissent was looking for any reason to find the test format seemingly arbitrary, especially given the steps the city went through to put a race neutral test in place.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12136094)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2009 7:57 PM
Author: frozen water buffalo

I don't disagree that the test weighting is facially neutral and even reasonable, but the law seems to say that if a test is out there that is also reasonable and would result in a less disparate result, you're on the hook for liability.

There was some evidence that this was the case (i.e. what they did in Bridgeport).

Taking that description of the law as true (which the majority doesn't really contest), then it seems like potential plaintiffs could have gotten past summary judgment if they sued the city.

If that (enough to get past summary judgment) is not a "strong basis in evidence," then what the hell is?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12136174)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 2nd, 2009 12:07 AM
Author: stimulating azn field

translation: liberal social engineering is tarded.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12138610)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 2nd, 2009 12:07 AM
Author: Fishy milk

who cares about this boring case?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12138613)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 2nd, 2009 1:56 PM
Author: stirring topaz fortuitous meteor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12141933)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 2nd, 2009 1:57 PM
Author: stirring topaz fortuitous meteor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12141947)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 2nd, 2009 1:58 PM
Author: frozen water buffalo

I guess people have moved on.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1031646&forum_id=2#12141950)