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Debevoise
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Date: February 6th, 2010 3:50 PM Author: primrose meetinghouse werd (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14033980) |
Date: February 6th, 2010 4:22 PM Author: Rebellious lilac kitchen mental disorder Lot of good people there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034194) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 4:49 PM Author: Walnut stirring mad cow disease church elie mystal for one (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034524) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 4:23 PM Author: Big-titted Multi-colored Center darn good establishment (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034202) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 4:26 PM Author: Startled lavender athletic conference set what class rank @ CLS for a good shot at working there? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034249) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 4:48 PM Author: primrose meetinghouse top 40% (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034508) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 5:12 PM Author: Startled lavender athletic conference set really? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034770) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 5:26 PM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot That seems like a low estimate for a "good shot." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034910) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 6:09 PM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike No (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14035386) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 4:28 PM Author: kink-friendly rambunctious private investor den too stable (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034262) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 4:29 PM Author: blue antidepressant drug senate I know someone who goes to MVP who got an offer there in November and had to reject it because they took a public interest job out of fear like three days before. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034281) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 4:30 PM Author: Offensive swashbuckling sweet tailpipe WTF??? this person is an idiot, especially if he's not a 1L. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034296) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 4:31 PM Author: mustard native why couldnt the person just pull out of the public interest job? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034314) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:47 PM Author: passionate address fanboi baby, did you cum in me? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037602) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 4:33 PM Author: dashing trump supporter parlour Cool story, Hansel. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034337) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 5:42 PM Author: blue antidepressant drug senate It's Han Solo to you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14035105) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 4:48 PM Author: Startled lavender athletic conference set would the public interest firm really care if you changed your mind? it would just open up a spot for another equally qualified person. worst case scenario they get butthurt and will ding you if you apply again down the road. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034509) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 4:49 PM Author: primrose meetinghouse Wow, that is unusual. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034517) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:33 PM Author: cream cracking step-uncle's house shitlib also didnt happen (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036225) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 5:25 PM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot That's pretty dumb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034900) |
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Date: February 8th, 2010 11:42 PM Author: Milky nudist house Hi, retard who believes everything his classmates tells him!
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Date: February 6th, 2010 4:32 PM Author: dashing trump supporter parlour I jizzed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14034332) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 6:22 PM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike one of the top 5 or so most desirable big law firms to work for (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14035505) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 6:31 PM Author: Crimson nighttime french chef What would you say the others are? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14035629) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 6:38 PM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14035709) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 6:51 PM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot Seems about right, but what about Irell and Munger? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14035821) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 6:54 PM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike Both great for lit. If you want to be in CA and you want to do litigation, can't go wrong there. I'd also put GD&C up there for CA. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14035838) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:10 PM Author: Crimson nighttime french chef why leave out Simpson Thacher? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14035949) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 8:18 PM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot I think simpson is a cut below the firms mentioned above. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036739) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:36 PM Author: black gunner telephone that's 6 firms, though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036256) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:22 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard lol here comes the deb summer associate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039061) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:22 PM Author: adventurous adulterous half-breed from my experience the associates there are just as miserable as they are everywhere else (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036059) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:30 PM Author: Exhilarant gay stage newt Yea but its very prestigious (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036184) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:33 PM Author: Unholy Jew Lol at this. I hope you're joking. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036232) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:39 PM Author: Exhilarant gay stage newt wut. So if Debevoise isn't prestigious, then what is? Wachtell and Williams and Connolly? So that means there are only two prestigious firms in the Country.
Oh, let's throw in Cravath too. So three total. |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:48 PM Author: Unholy Jew Oh, it's very prestigious, but if it's miserable to work there, who the fuck cares about its prestige? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036397) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:49 PM Author: supple toilet seat lol
when I hear cravath (and SullCrom, for that matter), I think "sweatshop" and "misery," not "prestige" |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:56 PM Author: black gunner telephone prestige = exit options, and S+C and CSM have the best exit options in new york after wachtell (and CSM has better exit ops for lit) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036479) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:10 PM Author: Lemon Range How are S&C and CSM's exit options better than the other firms the guy listed above? Doesn't this depend primarily on what sort of relationship your partners allow you to develop with clients? Are S&C and CSM more likely to let you do important stuff in your first few years than the other firms? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037291) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:16 PM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037353) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:49 PM Author: concupiscible generalized bond pozpig Debevoise, Davis Polk and Cleary are the "nice" biglaw firms in NYC.
Based on some truth I think. |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:49 PM Author: black gunner telephone LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036415) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:50 PM Author: Unholy Jew Re DPW being "nice"--I don't believe it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036419) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:50 PM Author: concupiscible generalized bond pozpig This is relative to Cravath, Sullivan, Simpson, Skadden, Weil. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036427) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:51 PM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036435) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:54 PM Author: concupiscible generalized bond pozpig Mostly true but there are institutional differences that have an impact. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036453) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 7:52 PM Author: Unholy Jew Good point. With NYC Biglaw, it is indeed all relative. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036445) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 8:20 PM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot There's definitely a difference in culture. DPW is passive aggressive (or "fake nice" if you prefer). CSM is not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036782) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 8:00 PM Author: cobalt box office fat ankles i'd take kirkland over debevoise anyday (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036517) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 8:00 PM Author: concupiscible generalized bond pozpig Very different firms culturally. Doesn't seem like a hard choice depending on what you want. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036525) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 8:07 PM Author: cobalt box office fat ankles i was just trolling, but i actually agree with this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036584) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 8:14 PM Author: exciting lodge This is very true. Kirkland is much more of a competitive kind of place, from partners down to associates, that really rewards and encourages go-getting type behavior. Debevoise is more laid back, quieter, non-competitive. Kirkland is the kind of place you go to if you're confident in yourself and you are willing to make contacts and fight for the kind of projects you want to work on. Deb is better if you are shyer/quieter and don't want to be constantly hustling for good work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036662) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:08 AM Author: Gaped bipolar point lol @ this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14038945) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:41 PM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot Yep. I never even considered interviewing with Kirkland. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037534) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 8:24 PM Author: blue antidepressant drug senate Below its office is an Outback Steakhouse. So if you get a job there, its all the bloomin' onion you can handle. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14036824) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:17 PM Author: primrose meetinghouse There's a Pig n' Whistle right down the street that is highly credited. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037361) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 8:59 PM Author: Cordovan useless brakes crackhouse pretty much as bearable as biglaw gets, it seems (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037199) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:20 PM Author: Scarlet black woman This is SO fucking wrong. Terrible hours, horrible work if you're a litigator. Everyone I know who goes there is either trying to leave of is staying b/c of future exit options. They are, however, brilliant at marketing themselves as a lifestyle v10. HTH. |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:21 PM Author: primrose meetinghouse They're not really litigation specialists. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037392) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:23 PM Author: Scarlet black woman But they're growing their white collar practice a lot with Mary Jo White and Mukasey. And because of this first to third years get INTERNALINVESTIGATIONDOCREVIEWPWNED. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037402) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:24 PM Author: primrose meetinghouse Shhh. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037403) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:27 PM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:24 PM Author: Lemon Range I hear that getting staffed on a big white collar case can fuck you over in terms of developing skills as a new lawyer. You agree with that, I take it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037406) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:27 PM Author: Scarlet black woman That seems to be what my friends there think. They learn very little about the case outside of what they should be looking for in their batches of documents. No motion practice, no deposition experience, not even fucking legal research. I almost went to Deb three years ago and thank my fucking lucky stars that I went elsewhere. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037421) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:29 PM Author: Lemon Range What have you gotten to do instead of this kind of doc review? Also, would it be stupid to do some transactional work over the summer if your firm stealthed corporate people in 2009? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037432) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:32 PM Author: Scarlet black woman If drafted motions, defended depositions (taking my first later this month), drafted legal memos, helped develop case theory, coordinated discovery in large cases, etc... I chose wisely. No idea about second q. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037449) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:25 AM Author: spruce bbw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040029) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:34 PM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot Interesting. I thought white collar was one of the main reasons to go to deb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037473) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:35 PM Author: primrose meetinghouse No, but the other poster was right about them trying to grow the practice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037480) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:42 PM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot I thought Mary Jo was hot stuff. Where are the best places to go for white collar? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037547) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:45 PM Author: Exhilarant gay stage newt Debevoise is just as good as any firm for White Collar. Davis Polk is good. Sull Crom...
Gibson Dunn is good. |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:48 PM Author: Scarlet black woman They are. But SO much of their work is Seimens related. If you go to Debevoise for white collar lit, you will drink Seimens. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037611) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:21 PM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14038426) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:45 PM Author: Scarlet black woman Yeah, I know. I stopped paying attention to other firms after I chose where I wanted to go. Especially firms filled with awkward wankers like Debevoise. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14038711) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:46 PM Author: Lemon Range rude but lulzy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14038724) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:51 PM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14038801) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:15 AM Author: Scarlet black woman The difference is Deb lawyers think they are some sort of idiosyncratic, intellectual, hip exception to biglaw attorneys. And that makes them much more pathetic. HTH. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039010) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:17 AM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot S&C lawyers are WAY COOLER. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039028) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:17 AM Author: Gaped bipolar point the strivers attracted to cravath are far worse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039030) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:21 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Maybe they're more annoying, but they know who they are. Thinking you're a hip, laid back biglaw associate because you wear trendy frames and brought in a copy of Gravity's Rainbow that you conspicuously placed next to your FRCP is very pathetic. Or because you are a photographer or short story writer on the side. That type of shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039057) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:25 AM Author: Lemon Range tbf, if your photography or fiction is good, that's kind of cool. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039088) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:27 AM Author: Scarlet black woman outted! Edit: EB. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:27 AM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot I'm not sure you've made your case all that well, dude. People who believe their entire life revolves around work product tend to be a lot less tolerable than those who at least pretend to have outside interests. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039114) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:30 AM Author: Lemon Range I prefer unmasked, persistent gunning myself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039147) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:31 AM Author: Scarlet black woman So pretending a.k.a lying to others and/or yourself makes a bad thing better? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039159) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:32 AM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot Pretending to be human is better than acting like a borg, yes.
In other news, sometimes it's not polite to stare. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:33 AM Author: Scarlet black woman No, being a borg and doing your thing is preferable to being a borg and pretending to be human. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039183) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:35 AM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot If your thing is "excellent work product," it's better to be inauthentic, broheim. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039201) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:36 AM Author: Scarlet black woman What the fuck does this mean? My thing is being honest with yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039218) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:40 AM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot Great, be honest with yourself. But don't be honest with me. I don't want to hear about your depressing priorities in life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039253) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:41 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Again, wtf? Try and make a comment that relates to what we are talking about and makes sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039270) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:47 AM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot Can't connect the dots? The discussion here is fake nice/normal vs. real douchebag. I prefer the former and you prefer the latter. Is there something else to it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039332) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:49 AM Author: Scarlet black woman For one, it's not "fake nice normal" it's "fake hip interesting." While I, like you, would prefer to work with people who are fake nice to real douchebag, I find fake hip/interesting to be a more grating form of douchebaggery. Anymore goalposts you wanna move bra? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039366) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:56 AM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot I don't think there's a lot of fake hip/interesting stuff going on at these firms (deb/cleary/dpw). To the extent that people talk about outside interests, it usually seems to be an outlet--a way of saying "hey, excellent work product isn't my only hobby!"
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:06 AM Author: Scarlet black woman I guess I just got a different impression from the people I met a Deb during recruiting and the people I know who went. They either think they're really cool or intellectuals doing the law thing until they get around to writing the sequel to Infinite Jest. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039520) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:23 PM Author: Lemon Range Huh, I missed their lifestyle schtick. The lawyers I talked to from the firm all seemed to acknowledge that they work very hard. They played up the fact that they get very good work. Maybe it was just my gunnerish mien that got them to brag about how much they work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037401) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:31 PM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot I never heard a partner or associate try to sell it as a lifestyle firm. What they did stress was that the people are relatively friendly, and that weird (code for aspie?) people are welcome. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037440) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:33 PM Author: Lemon Range "weird (code for aspie?) people are welcome."
ROFL. this is true at all of these places, though. they seem much more into smarts - as reflected by grades, school rank, and journal membership - than anything else. the fact that the guy told you this outright is kind of strange. did you admit to being an aspie somehow? |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:34 PM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037470) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:35 PM Author: Lemon Range my oci results indicate that they aren't always successful (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037484) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:36 PM Author: primrose meetinghouse By weird they don't mean aspie, they do like nerds, but many have lives. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037493) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:39 PM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot Actually yeah, "nerd" was the word they used. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037519) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:37 PM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot I don't know, dude. Deb is the only place that was pushing the whole "we're weird and cool" angle, though I hear cleary is pretty famous for having idiosyncratic partners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037505) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:33 PM Author: Scarlet black woman This was three years ago when I was choosing. The line I got was "Given how high our reputation is, we have very reasonable hours." So not totally lifestyle, but still a load of bullshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037464) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:32 PM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14038550) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:47 PM Author: Scarlet black woman So wrong dude. Quality of cases maybe (if you're judging quality of case based on it's value). But no one I know at Debevoise has had anything remotely interesting or even level of experience appropriate to do on their cases (these are 1-3 year associates) and their hours suck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14038747) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:49 PM Author: Lemon Range I don't get how this is possible. All these places take on similar kinds of work, right? So don't all of them require the same amount of substantive work by 1-3 years? (And, for that matter, the same amount of grunt work.) Why would staffing be any different at a place like S&C than at Debevoise? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14038767) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:50 PM Author: Scarlet black woman Right, you're only comparing v10. I agree that it's pretty much the same in the v10. That's why unless you're an striver, prestige whore, destined for partner or retarded, there is no reason to be in the v10. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14038790) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:14 AM Author: Lemon Range Yeah, I guess I'm a prestige whore, but it's rational to be a prestige whore if you're a lawyer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14038998) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:16 AM Author: Scarlet black woman You're gonna have to elaborate a bit there champ. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039016) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:24 AM Author: Lemon Range I chose my firm based in large part on how marketable it will make me when I'm pushed out. It makes sense to do that when, at the vast majority of high paying law firms that hire new graduates, 98% of entering lawyers are forced to leave within 5 years. Generally, the more prestigious your firm is, the more marketable you are as a lateral. Talk to a lateral recruiter if you don't believe me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039080) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:30 AM Author: Scarlet black woman I agree with all of this. Except you said "as a lawyer" whereas you should have said "as a biglaw lawyer" it's rational to be a prestige whore. Which obviously it is because, other than financial need/greed no other reason to be that type of lawyer. Also the being forced to leave within 5 years is something that is more acute in the v10-v50 range. So if you weren't such a prestige whore you wouldn't have to account for this as much. But, of course, we're on xo so just call me a prole or beta faggot and let's end this thread. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:33 AM Author: Lemon Range "Which obviously it is because, other than financial need/greed no other reason to be that type of lawyer."
The only reason I went to law school was to improve my earning potential doing things I have a competitive advantage doing (reading dry, complicated materials and writing about them). If that's somehow evil or greedy, sorry.
"being forced to leave within 5 years is something that is more acute in the v10-v50 range."
What good alternatives are there, assuming your goal is to make a lot of money? |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:36 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Did I say evil or greedy? And he alternatives are non v50 firms. Of course we probably have a different definition of "a lot of money." |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:39 AM Author: Lemon Range Probably not. I'm hoping for a salary that's around $120k in real terms after five years of biglaw. Prestigious firm ==> in-house/midlaw/biggovt/academia seems like the best way to that kind of income. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039244) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:41 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Right, except you don't need v10 for that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039259) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:42 AM Author: Lemon Range I chose V10 assuming it would make it easier to do that. It was rational prestige whoring. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039272) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:44 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Absolutely. No disagreement here. I'm just saying the v10 in general is not really the place to get good litigation experience (going back to where this all started). That said, maybe within the v10, Deb is a good place for that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039306) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:37 AM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039228) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:40 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Saints +4.5, your pick? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039247) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:42 AM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike I don't know man. I'd love for the Saints to pull it off. I think they'll need to win the turnover battle, just like they did against Vikings.
Edit: your very sensible response to my superbowl comment makes where you work matter much less to me in terms of my respect for you. engaging in football conversation competently = respect earned. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:44 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard "Also the being forced to leave within 5 years is something that is more acute in the v10-v50 range."
no its not |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:45 AM Author: Scarlet black woman It's more firm specific past this point. In the v100 some firms are up or out, others are happy to carry 9-12 year associates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039318) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:51 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard not what i meant (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039381) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:52 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Whaddidya mean? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039397) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:56 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard teh firms are effectively "up or out" by the time ur about to hit midlevel. too many law school students seem to think you can always make it to year 7 if u want to. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039424) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:04 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Except almost every day I'm dealing with opposing counsel who is an 8th or 10th year associate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039505) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:08 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard uh yeah, ur dealing with the ones that made it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039536) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:10 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Except they tend to be from the same firms, while other firms don't have these types of senior associates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039561) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:36 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard that these firms have 9-11 year associates around doesn't really mean the firms are really any less up or out than firms that have a bright line rule of kicking anyone out at year 7.5. 90% of first year associates will never be in a position where they are eventually in consideration to be "carried" as a 9th year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039745) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:43 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard the difference, if any, in prestige, among most of these firms is marginal and will not have any effect on your exit options (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039290) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:45 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman It depends on what kind of move you're trying to make. For some purposes, S&C > Debevoise. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039316) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:50 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard such as? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039371) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:51 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman Moving to a biglaw firm in a secondary market is what I had in mind. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039380) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:59 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard b/c someone at akin gump's houston office will think Cravath is a better firm? Im not sure im getting ur logic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039451) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:02 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman The logic is straightforward. Whether it's true or not is hard to judge, but it's what I've heard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039483) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:07 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard well, it's completely wrong. interviewing at jones day secondary office x, between a deb and a cravath lateral, it's going to come down to what they were doing at the firm and personality. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039526) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:11 AM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039570) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:21 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard lololololol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039635) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:14 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039578) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:20 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard if its a cravath associate vs a Baker Mackenzie associate yes, maybe...particularly if ur trying to lateral to say, Munger, in which case the Baker associate would have no shot anyway. If ur trying to lateral to a random V50, the decision will not at all come down to Cravath vs Deb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039619) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:22 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman do you work at one of these places? what are you basing this on? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039646) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:25 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard I work at one one of these places. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039669) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:28 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard Once you're in at the V5-V10 range, your decision on which offer to accept should not be based on the very wrong assumption that there will be any real difference in exit options. Munger has virtually zero layperson name recognition outside of Los Angeles and most people probably aren't even aware they even had a corporate practice. Do you really think they are at a disadvantage against a S&C associate? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039691) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:37 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman Actually, yes, all else equal, I would think they'd be at a disadvantage if they were moving somewhere outside CA. I'm just a 2L, though.
"your decision on which offer to accept should not be based on the very wrong assumption that there will be any real difference in exit options"
Outside of prestige/selectivity, the firms are virtually indistinguishable. They have these ridiculous personas - S&C as a sweatshop, Debevoise as a refuge for elitist nerds, Cleary as a "nice, laid back" place, etc. - but that bullshit 2L chatter shouldn't be a factor in this kind of decision. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:51 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard you're right that they're all totally indistinguishable for the most part in terms of "culture" or "chances for early responsibility" etc, though the deb nerd thing is somewhat true and is very often the main reason people accept at deb over some more well known firm like cravath.
honestly id just accept at the place where i had the most friends.
IMO the mto associate will not be at a disadvantage except the kind of place at which the mto associate would never want to work |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:54 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman "honestly id just accept at the place where i had the most friends."
that actually sounds kind of smart, although another way of looking at it is that if your friends are in different places, your network's more diversified. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:52 AM Author: Scarlet black woman If any of the Nazi's S & C represented currently work at a company you want to be GC for, then you're totally in there dOOd. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039387) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:53 AM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039404) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:57 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard Not really. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039437) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:01 AM Author: Burgundy floppy preventive strike (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039467) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:17 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard no one is making hiring decisions based on some marginal difference in layperson prestige or b/c S&C is generally known for having better corp. it just won't matter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039597) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:15 AM Author: Gaped bipolar point they're not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039014) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 12:18 AM Author: Scarlet black woman In terms of quality of cases and responsibility of junior lawyers? With the exception of Wachtell and Cravath with respect to junior associate work, they are. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039038) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 11:17 PM Author: concupiscible generalized bond pozpig This is the impression I get on the corporate side. Assume it probably is at least baked in some reality. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14038391) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:26 PM Author: hateful temple I turned them down for midlaw in a smaller city. Didn't want to move to NYC or DC. Bad move? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037415) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:28 PM Author: Lemon Range Depends mostly on the midlaw career trajectory you're looking at and your reasons for not wanting to move. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037424) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:35 PM Author: hateful temple I wouldn't feel comfortable living in NYC. It's a great place to visit but I don't think I can live there.
The partnership track at the firm I'm going to is about 6 years. That was something that greatly appealed to me. |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:36 PM Author: Lemon Range and your chances for partnership? that could just mean that they'll ding you in 6 years instead of 8 at biglaw in a good economy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037499) |
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Date: February 6th, 2010 9:40 PM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot what's the associate to partner ratio? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14037531) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:46 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid this thread has gotten totally out of hand with typical xoxo 0L bullshit
as a former summer at a firm with a similar reputation to deb, here are my impressions:
- there is absolutely a difference in culture between deb/cleary/etc on the one hand, and cravath/s&c on the other. it's a self-perpetuating phenomenon resulting from self selection by law students. people who care more about a marginally nicer culture than a marginally better vault ranking self-select into the friendly firms, and those with the opposite preference self-select into the other firms. its no surprise that you see law review and YLS types gravitate toward the former and typical T14 corporate monkeys gravitate toward the latter.
- re responsibility for junior associates, this is a function of associate-partner leverage and quantity of work. after its recent summer classes, cravath will probably have a leverage ratio of like 7:1. good luck getting responsibility and face time with partners in that situation. cravath aside, all the top firms have plenty of litigation work to keep associates busy, and have the same type of needs w/r/t research, drafting motions, etc. i'm not too knowledgeable about deb's white collar practice, but i imagine that it attracts lots of ausa-aspiring gunners who want to work with mukasey et al, and there's probably lots of other types of work they get from their corporate clients that you can do if you're interested in getting motion practice.
- exit ops depend on two things: the firm's clients, and your own resume. obviously if you want to go in-house at a particular company, it helps if you're coming from that company's outside counsel. so if you want to go in-house to goldman, work at S&C. however, all these firms have a broad array of financial and industry clients, so if you just want to go in house somewhere, you'll have similar opportunities at all the top places. if you want to exit to a non-client company or leave law altogether, the name of your firm is only relevant as a proxy for your individual merit. since deb is as competitive/selective as s&c/cravath, it will signal basically the same thing. whether or not you end up getting the job will then depend on your individual experience and accomplishments and the quality of your interview. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:51 AM Author: Scarlet black woman DESCRIBE your summer associate lunches faggot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039849) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:55 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid why, so you can figure out where i worked?
sorry about your debevoise ding btw |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:00 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Yes that's exactly why. You're one sharp 3L scout. I turned down my offer at Debevoise 3 years ago. HTH. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039931) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:55 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039891) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:57 AM Author: Underhanded vibrant haunted graveyard chances are the deb summer has better law school grades and better ug (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039904) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:59 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039922) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:36 AM Author: primrose meetinghouse LOL at how fucking ridiculous this comment is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040121) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 1:59 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid what is V5? two prestigious firms in wachtell and dpw, one shithole in skadden, and two other firms who mainly recruit fordham corporate monkeys with no personality.
top 40% grades and a pulse at a top school will get you an offer at cravath and s&c. this is definitely not true for deb, dpw, cleary, covington, wilmer, etc. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:01 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039938) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:05 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Yeah, I got ding! fagged at s&c and cleary and got an offer from Deb. Didn't bother applying to Cravath.
But now that I think of it, I know people who had better grades who were dinged by Deb but got offers at Cravath and Cleary.
So yeah, who gives a fuck really. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:06 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039955) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:07 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid yeah i really don't care about your self-serving claims, i'll just let others decide which one of us is more credible.
i've personally observed a significant culture difference between the friendly firms and cravath etc. my theory is that it has to do with self-selection. you're free to disagree. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:09 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman these claims are impossible to verify. virtually no one's in a position to make them credibly, either, because no one works at more than one of the firms as an SA and 1-3 yr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039966) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:17 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid yeah they're particularly hard to verify if they're coming from anonymous monikers posting on xoxo at 2 a.m.
here's a better method to compare the student intakes at the firms. look at where the people on your school's law review have ended up working. if it's anything like my school, you'll see an even distribution among DC firms, cali firms, and wachtell/dpw/cleary/deb. cravath, skadden, s&c will be conspicuously absent. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:19 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040006) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:24 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid you probably go to gulc or cornell or some such school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040025) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:30 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040068) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:36 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid so where do you go to school? HYS? (lol) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040127) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:41 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Why is hys lol? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040171) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:43 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman cq (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040186) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:43 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid because he said 5 LR editors from his school went to cravath, which essentially outted him as a gulc or cornell student (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040187) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:46 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040209) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:50 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman tbf, i go to an HYS, and while that didn't happen this year or last year, enough went to CSM that the number isn't unrealistic (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040241) |
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Date: February 8th, 2010 8:15 PM Author: bateful field your conclusion definitely does not follow from the premise (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14058442) |
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Date: February 8th, 2010 9:28 PM Author: Rebellious lilac kitchen mental disorder Pretty weird inference, broheim. I know a decent number of people on LR at my school are going to S&C/CSM, and I don't go to DCGB. I will say that skadden, however, is conspicuously absent from the conversation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14059089) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:16 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039995) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:23 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid look i realize you need to rationalize your decision to work at s&c or whatever to yourself, and being a cynical know-it-all faggot helps you accomplish this, but in reality not every firm is like that. associates at any top firm are going to pull all nighters, receive candid feedback, and deal with moody partners. however some firms make a point about cultivating a polite and friendly atmosphere, and others don't. and it's not like i'm basing this on some propaganda from partners; all the associates i worked with over the summer confirmed it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040021) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:27 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040045) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:30 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman this was pretty douchey (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040065) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:31 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040081) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:35 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman lulzy but still douchey, like much of this thread. petty, striving, prestige obsessed NYC BIGLAWYERS are fucking hilarious. i can't wait for the lulz the summer program is sure to produce. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040117) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:35 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid haha your intensely shrill responses in this thread only confirm your firm's stereotypes
but seriously, wtf are you talking about. as a summer associate you have tons of opportunities to shoot the shit with associates and talk to them about the firm and how they get on with biglaw life. maybe you were too edgy and cool to take advantage of this but it seemed to me a pretty obviously reasonable thing to do. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:37 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040136) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:42 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid ok man. just as a sidenote bro, you seem to have some anger issues. maybe try drinking some tea to mellow out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040176) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:49 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040235) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:49 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Promise me something dickweed? Make sure to talk to those same associates about your firm's culture when you're a junior and you're both there at 11:30 waiting on your second seamless web order of the night to come through.
Hilarious how you criticized "0L opinions" meanwhile you're a FUCKING LAW STUDENTS telling practicing lawyers how it is.
Edit: You make me want to give up being a pumo, you pumo faggot. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:54 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid when did i imply that juniors at my firm don't work long hours or order from seamless web? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040274) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:02 AM Author: Scarlet black woman What I meant was, there's a big difference in what an associate will tell you during a summer lunch or firm softball game about how collegial the firm is, and what they'll say about their colleagues not during your fucking summer associate experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040354) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:04 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040374) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:09 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid they weren't randoms that i met at a softball game. a couple of them i knew before i even applied to the firm, others of them i got to know pretty well over the summer. you really don't know what you're talking about, and are clearly trying to project your own shitty experience with the horrible culture at your firm onto me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040425) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:13 AM Author: primrose meetinghouse .This is common sense (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040453) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:42 AM Author: Scarlet black woman 180^180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040181) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:39 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Look man, you're embarrassing yourself. I work at a relatively laid back firm (by definition not v10) and going from summer associate to junior associate was pretty fucking brutal. And this is a firm that actually tried to prepare you for that (e.g. unlike dp/cl/deb didn't circulate talking points about making the summers think they were working at a place that was suuper cuuul to its associates.)
I don't care what firm you chose and why, I just think you've seen about 15% of what you need to see to make the type of statements you're making. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:47 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid what are you talking about? i'm not under any illusions about working 40 hour weeks and getting away with shitty work product. i was strictly talking about the tenor of interactions between lawyers at the firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040218) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:56 AM Author: Scarlet black woman Yeah and you are treated very differently and you're privy to very different information.
Are you the only one who doesn't get the purpose of summer programs? You realize there are people at the end of the summer at Cadwalader and Cahill stoked to come back and starting working will all the cool people they met over the summer? |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:05 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid yeah actually i picked my firm partly because i knew a couple associates there who went to my college (they went straight through, i took a couple years off). i obviously trust their assessment of the firm's culture more than the trolling of some anonymous xoxo faggot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040385) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:07 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040404) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:11 AM Author: primrose meetinghouse You're yelling at a series of periods and commas. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040436) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:13 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040451) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:20 AM Author: primrose meetinghouse
£0$€® |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:11 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid lol yeah man i'm really bummed that i won't have the pleasure of working with cool doods like yourself (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040442) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:15 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040466) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:17 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid glad you could get all this off your chest man (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040480) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:33 AM Author: primrose meetinghouse You're a fucking vile misanthrope. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040092) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:35 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040116) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:39 AM Author: primrose meetinghouse Go to bed you drunk faggot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040157) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:40 AM Author: black gunner telephone (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040166) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:48 AM Author: primrose meetinghouse That's not what happened at all
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:40 AM Author: Scarlet black woman You have proven to be a 180 on point poaster in this thread. Not ironic, I really mean it. And this is from someone who works at a "friendly firm" (where I leave at 9-10 most days). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040167) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:45 AM Author: black gunner telephone ty, friend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040203) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:11 AM Author: Laughsome Coffee Pot From what I've heard, gpa requirements are about the same at all of the above. There's certainly a difference in culture, though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039975) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:02 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman This sounds wrong in all sorts of ways (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14039941) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:34 AM Author: Provocative university MYTH: There are V10 or even V20 "lifestyle" firms
FACT: Vault rankings are primarily driven by revenue/PPP (like schools are LSAT/GPA). Firms cannot have high revenue/PPP without being highly leveraged and then sweatshopping the shit out of its associates.
The further down the vault list you go, the more likely you are to find a firm where you can achieve some semblance of work/life balance. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:37 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman "Firms cannot have high revenue/PPP without being highly leveraged and then sweatshopping the shit out of its associates."
Don't more prestigious firms also charge higher rates? |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:43 AM Author: Provocative university not really besides a handful of ultra superstar partners
rates for grunt work is pretty uniform |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:44 AM Author: Vermilion vivacious skinny woman well receipts might still be higher because they may write down less frequently? (just say yes to make me feel better tyia) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040198) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:47 AM Author: Provocative university yes :) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040222) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 11:36 AM Author: concupiscible generalized bond pozpig Premium billing helps quite a lot at top firms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14041466) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 11:42 AM Author: Diverse plaza associate ... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14041485) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 11:34 AM Author: Glittery rehab weed whacker TBF, DPW and Debevoise do not really profess themselves as "lifestyle" firms. Debevoise got hit on pretty hard a few years ago for some video where the working mom talked about how great it was that she could "go home to tuck her kids in before going back to work."
civil work environment != lifestyle. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:20 AM Author: Unholy Jew Christ. What a terrible thread. RC, I'm not entirely sure why you're so upset. I thought you were a pretty chill dude. If the guy's wrong, then let him know you think he's mistaken and where he's gone awry, and then let it go. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040508) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:23 AM Author: black gunner telephone i regret everything that happened ITT. i just went and brushed my teeth and looked in the mirror and had a wtf moment. so, i apologize to the various pumos and other ppl in this thread who shit escalated with. it was a stupid-ass argument, a really stupid way to spend part of a saturday night, and i think i was just really stressed out about something and was blowing off steam in here.
EDIT: looking back over this train-wreck of a thread, i don't think the way things went was entirely my fault, but i said some stupid, mean, fucked up shit, and i definitely should have done my part by taking a step back |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:24 AM Author: Unholy Jew That makes sense. Don't worry about it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040547) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:26 AM Author: primrose meetinghouse ®©™ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14040559) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 11:22 AM Author: concupiscible generalized bond pozpig Summary? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14041413) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 11:35 AM Author: Soul-stirring Giraffe Hominid Raymond Chandler went ballistic defending firms like cravath. think foggy bottom dreaming without the tongue-in-cheek witty element. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14041461) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 11:37 AM Author: concupiscible generalized bond pozpig Oh, cool. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14041467) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 11:43 AM Author: Diverse plaza associate I just wish I could have seen it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14041488) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:08 PM Author: primrose meetinghouse Raymond Chandler was a disaster (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14042772) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 2:10 PM Author: primrose meetinghouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14042789) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 4:10 PM Author: Scarlet black woman No he wasn't. The 3L claiming he knew which firms were "friendly firms" was the real disaster. Raymond came off well in this thread. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14044694) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 4:12 PM Author: primrose meetinghouse Hi Raymond (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14044712) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 4:18 PM Author: Scarlet black woman I was also participating above. Am not Rudolph. Would NEVER work at Cravath. I just think referring to Deb as a friendly laid back place is "fucking retarded." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14044771) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 4:16 PM Author: comical orchestra pit depressive maybe but i wish he didn't edit his posts
btw cravath's TTT-ness has been well documented on this board
see, e.g. http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=693081&forum_id=2#8698456 |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 4:19 PM Author: Scarlet black woman I agree. I would never work there in a million years. BUT, people were giving Deb WAY too much credit here. Like it was the loophole where you made biglaw dollars with minimal biglaw bullshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14044780) |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 4:25 PM Author: comical orchestra pit depressive i dont think anybody thinks you can make biglaw money at debeovise or anywhere else without putting in the hours and the other bullshit. as prestigewhore correctly notes above, all those firms really emphasize their hard working style. debevoise specifically is notorious for giving summers tons of work and having them stay late etc.
the supposed difference, which i think is probably true, is that people are more low-key and polite at those places. you might say passive aggressive instead of aggressive aggressive. |
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Date: February 7th, 2010 3:58 PM Author: comical orchestra pit depressive fuck, same here. this seems like vintage xoxo in action - 200+ posts about a single biglaw firm, hard core pro and anti cravath trolling, bragging about all the offers you turned down, dismissing all counterarguments to your point as "douchey" or TTT, etc. ah, the good ol days *sheds tear* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#14044565) |
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Date: February 8th, 2010 8:12 PM Author: black gunner telephone i edited out of a sense of courtesy to the pumo and steroid small balls, because i was calling them faggots (as they were calling me). but, from their comments above, i can see the same sense of courtesy isn't reciprocal (despite the NICENESS of everyone at debevoise).
and, unlike what the pumo claims, i wasn't defending cravath or sullcrom, which are both sweatshops. i was saying that debevoise is also a sweatshop, while this pumo was talking about how DIFFERENT deb was and how everyone who works at csm/sullcrom is a corporate monkey and deb is full of interesting and laid-back YLS law journal editors.
take it for what you will, and i guess for this thin-skinned, debevoise-bound pumo 3L time will tell who's right |
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Date: January 17th, 2011 5:12 PM Author: narrow-minded twinkling mother (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1214222&forum_id=2#17076095) |