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What is the point of being a derivatives or hedge fund lawyer?
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Date: March 5th, 2010 8:52 PM Author: autistic whorehouse internal respiration At that stage of the game you already have the financial acument and brains to actually trade in the stocks yourself or create your own hedge fund. Most of your run of the mill second-fourth tier students are admittedly not quick/smart enough,. But if you are a T14 lawyer in a finance-related law practice (derivatives, bonds, securities...) you probably have the same math/finance ability as the banker/MBA types. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14309401) |
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Date: March 5th, 2010 9:07 PM Author: submissive contagious national Math skills+understanding basic finance =/= trading success. It's incredibly difficult to beat the market, which is why most of the money goes to a few top traders on Wall Street even though thousands have the knowledge and intelligence to do basically the same thing. Some people just have a little extra, whether it be vision or gut ability to read the mood of the market. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14309513) |
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Date: March 5th, 2010 9:15 PM Author: boyish native keepsake machete cr. every faggot with an e-trade account and a candlestick chart thinks he can beat the market (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14309578) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 5:06 PM Author: lilac underhanded main people LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323808) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:09 PM Author: arousing plum abode knife There's a lot of luck involved, too. In fact, stock-picking and trading are one of the most luck-based trades around. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320734) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:10 PM Author: maize buck-toothed bawdyhouse lol you're naive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320738) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:12 PM Author: arousing plum abode knife orly? please summarize why this is so. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320748) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:14 PM Author: maize buck-toothed bawdyhouse there's a reason why the top guys are always on top year in and year out. they don't just keep "getting lucky" year after year after year, etc. i'm not saying there isn't some element of luck involved, but it's probably more like 10-20% luck and 80-90% skill/talent. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320757) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:15 PM Author: silver pea-brained box office there is a reason. it's called "insider information." for joe schmoe on the street, it's luck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320767) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 5:20 PM Author: brass irradiated prole Or at a certain point, you become a market setter and other traders follow your trades. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323963) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:16 PM Author: arousing plum abode knife This is an embarrassingly inadequate answer. The fact is, top guys are often not top year after year. If you weren't completely ignorant, you'd know that true performance not serially correlated for the vast majority of investors and that many people who "beat" the market are often simply taking on different betas than their benchmarks or leveraging them to the hilt. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320771) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:17 PM Author: maize buck-toothed bawdyhouse yea, ok. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320775) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:18 PM Author: arousing plum abode knife lolpwned (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320778) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:19 PM Author: maize buck-toothed bawdyhouse not at all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320789) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:22 PM Author: arousing plum abode knife You don't know shit about finance and it shows. You have no intelligible response. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320805) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:24 PM Author: maize buck-toothed bawdyhouse sure. let me know when you're done having your heart attack. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320811) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 5:07 PM Author: lilac underhanded main people you sound like an angry retard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323812) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:18 PM Author: silver pea-brained box office tbf, he's a junior in college who's going to be one of the "top guys" one day. not like his pot smoking roommates who go around "having sex" and thinking the market is about luck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320781) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:20 PM Author: maize buck-toothed bawdyhouse yes, junior in college in 2006. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320793) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 2:37 PM Author: dull appetizing wrinkle station Yeah, that reason is called survivorship bias.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 2:43 PM Author: Fear-inspiring Private Investor Garrison lehman brothers and bear stearns are full of top guys. consistently beat the market. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14322249) |
Date: March 5th, 2010 9:07 PM Author: Twinkling Well-lubricated University I knew one lawyer from sullivan cromwell who later worked at my firm, and then went on to run a desk at MS.
they usually don't. they're sensitive to risk |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 11:45 AM Author: flickering dashing stag film corn cake Aren't you a teacher? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320625) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:09 PM Author: Laughsome Corner he was a derivatives trader (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320732) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:20 PM Author: flickering dashing stag film corn cake Really? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320794) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 4:51 PM Author: Chocolate tantric sandwich sanctuary nice flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323620) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 11:53 AM Author: Flesh frozen hall stain Date: March 5th, 2010 9:07 PM Author: bothered("College is for *PUSSIES*@!" - Rory)
I knew one lawyer from sullivan cromwell who later worked at my firm, and then went on to run a desk at MS. they usually don't. they're sensitive to risk
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=#) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:08 PM Author: Titillating goal in life lol wtf (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320724) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 5:09 PM Author: exciting cream sweet tailpipe mad-dog skullcap tyft, he's been outted as flame (like I always thought he was) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323832) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:06 PM Author: maize buck-toothed bawdyhouse sensitive to risk = having no confidence in your abilities to succeed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320715) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 5:10 PM Author: Yellow New Version Institution (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323852) |
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Date: March 5th, 2010 9:15 PM Author: Supple indigo stead It's really more about ones track record although status plays a tremendous role (connections, friends, family, married into, old money vs new money, etc.)
Take this for example. You've just been promoted and are now being given a test account of fifty million dollars; your job description is to generate a larger yield then the bs yields you've been getting with PIMCO.
Your boss is on your ass because the stock holders are upset the firm isn't investing the cash and it is UP TO YOU to fix that. Now suppose you succeed in increasing the yield your boss might open the spigot and give you larger access to the cookie jar
Now what would you do?
A.) Invest the money with John Paulson (or someone like him) or B.) Give the money to some guy 'starting a fund' who is NOT a mover/shaker.
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Date: March 7th, 2010 11:42 AM Author: mustard therapy Why would knowing how to structure a derivatives contract correlate to being able to trade stocks or derivatives? Does that mean that all M&A lawyers would be good private equity magnates, or that all criminal defense lawyers would be good murderers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320621) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:05 PM Author: autistic whorehouse internal respiration Maybe not trading stocks/derivatives but at least working in investment banking. The T14 lawyer working in biglaw doing M&A has probably mastered the area enough to working in banking in the same field. Its sort of like a real estate lawyer who does litigation and closings. He likely knows enough to be an investor. The answer might be that the lawyers don't have confidence in their abilities or are overly risk averse. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 4:45 PM Author: brass irradiated prole Why would an M&A lawyer know anything about generating value out of an acquisition? What would he know about marketing or operational synergies or streamlining? There's a lot more to an acquisition than developing a tax-efficient structure and valuing off past performance. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323544) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 4:52 PM Author: shaky mauve multi-billionaire the answer is that banking is very connections-based and requires certain paths to entry, for example attending an elite u-grad -> analyst or top mba -> associate.
it is possible to lateral as a lawyer->banker but its more through hustling/networking rather than an established job posting asking for a lawyer. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 6:02 PM Author: mustard therapy You have absolutely no idea about anything and are probably flame. Seriously? Doing closings makes you a good real estate investor? Come on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14324373) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 11:52 AM Author: maize buck-toothed bawdyhouse my dad has almost no math skills and beats the market almost every year.
they aren't necessary. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:22 PM Author: arousing plum abode knife wow, your pops "beats the market almost every year"?
guess what? almost any idiot who mixed in bonds, international stocks and us stocks in a portfolio beat the S&P 500 on a risk-adjusted basis. and this result was absolutely expected because of the mathematics of returns that are not perfectly correlated. the question is, did your dad beat the market taking into account all the risk factors he took on? |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:23 PM Author: maize buck-toothed bawdyhouse i don't know what he does, but i know he had 37% returns last year on his personal portfolio. however, hes been in the investment management industry for over 25 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320810) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 4:59 PM Author: Cordovan House-broken Den what should i read to learn about finance, finance master man? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323736) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:09 PM Author: silver pea-brained box office lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14320728) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 1:00 PM Author: Walnut school Subject: not that simple Creating a DCF model isn't exactly a feat of mathematical ingenuity. I think you're overestimating the math prowess of bankers.
There is only so much alpha to go around. If anyone claims to consistently beat the market, I'd be cautious. Simply being smart and understanding a thing or two about finance does not translate into easy returns.
A lot of well-known financiers are former-lawyers. It's not like getting a law degree forecloses a successful career in finance. But I'm not sure how much it necessarily helps, either. It's more about the individual.
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Date: March 7th, 2010 4:48 PM Author: brass irradiated prole Lawyers were particularly common on structured finance desks because the deals were so formula and documentation driven and they deals are essentially passive investors so you don't need much "business" experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323579) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 5:09 PM Author: lilac underhanded main people shut up you fucking moron. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323835) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 5:18 PM Author: brass irradiated prole WTF? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323942) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 5:23 PM Author: lilac underhanded main people you're a dumb fucking retard. how many ways would you like me to say it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323998) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 5:25 PM Author: brass irradiated prole I disagree. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14324022) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 5:02 PM Author: Stimulating angry crackhouse There are quite a few lawyers who ended up doing M&A or whatever at banks and some in principal investing as well. I think it's probably harder to make that leap these days than it was in the old days. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1242340&forum_id=2#14323766) |