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CA Informal Hearing
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:39 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin Subject: Cali Informal Hearing What is the informal hearing like for the Character Review Committee? How many people are denied each year who go to informal hearing? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966187) |
Date: September 4th, 2010 8:42 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor ur fucked. lawyer up now. the difference b/w NO and 100 hrs CS plus reapply in 2 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966214) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:44 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin Whats NO abbreviation stand for? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966228) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:44 PM Author: aquamarine at-the-ready philosopher-king its not an abbreviation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966229) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:46 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966234) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:55 PM Author: infuriating seedy address puppy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966303) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:43 PM Author: aquamarine at-the-ready philosopher-king what did you do? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966224) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:46 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin An old employer made up a ton of shit about me. I quit working for him to get a better offer and he got mad. This was 6 or 7 years ago too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966237) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:47 PM Author: aquamarine at-the-ready philosopher-king u provided his info and they called him and this happened unexpectedly? or there was already a record of it somewhere (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966243) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:48 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin No record of anything. I quit. He got mad. Kind of left him in the lurch.
Do you think I have a chance at hte informal hearing? |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:50 PM Author: aquamarine at-the-ready philosopher-king do you understand my question? how did this come to their attention? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966264) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:52 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin I imagine he sent in the reference form. Then continued correspondence if they asked for additional info. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966275) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:55 PM Author: aquamarine at-the-ready philosopher-king do you have to submit a reference form from every employer ever? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966306) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:56 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin Generally speaking yes. Depends on the state. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966314) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:57 PM Author: aquamarine at-the-ready philosopher-king this part of the bar sounds so horrible (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966318) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:00 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin It is. It's come to the point where everyone applying may have an issue. One state was even talking about requiring applicants to disclose their facebook information. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966335) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 3:56 PM Author: Irradiated Aqua Reading Party yes in texas (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15970980) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:49 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin BTW, I haven't been called to an informal hearing, but I bet that's coming next. I am considering requesting on my own to explain what happened. Any advice? Do I have a chance? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966254) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:56 PM Author: aquamarine at-the-ready philosopher-king oh you haven't even been called yet? why are you worrying about it. what did your former employer say you did? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966313) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:59 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin Claims I didn't do my job and I hurt the reputation of his business (in many more words).
I will be called, but it might be awhile. I might just request an informal hearing. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:00 PM Author: aquamarine at-the-ready philosopher-king why would you do that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966338) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:01 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin It will make the process go faster. I just am curious what to expect at such a hearing. Also, how many people get denied in Cali each year? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966348) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:04 PM Author: aquamarine at-the-ready philosopher-king I do not know how many people get denied but if he is just making stuff up about you, why can't you explain that? Also, who told you its a good idea to request a hearing? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966374) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:04 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin What happens is you correspond back and forth with the investigators thru letters. Sometimes they don't deem that sufficient, so they bring you to an informal hearing with the committee in person. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966382) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:06 PM Author: aquamarine at-the-ready philosopher-king I don't really know, sorry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966402) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:01 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor seriously, as real legal advice to xoxo, get a fuckin ethics lawyer. they were usually bar employees and have friends and the bar has to decide who gets 1) dinged or 2) given a shot to write an essay, do CS hours, and/or wait 1-3 yrs probation before re-applying. i know 2) sucks but it sucks far less than 1). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966349) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:03 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin Though if I reapply, wouldn't he be contacted again? Then I would also have to explain why I withdrew the app.
Other than this I have no issues. I also have held gov't jobs. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:04 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor no, if you get a probationary period it's assumed you fucked up your life and everything is a blank slate for that time period. but when on probation if you get fired, arrested, or sent to collections on a bill you're fucked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966377) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:05 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin Though this happened 6 years ago. If this is such a big deal now, it probably will be in 2 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966393) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:09 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor no, pay attention. if you get probation it's a clean slate from that date. i don't know what this guy said to fuck with your app but it got the bar to make you drive out to a hearing that will have a transcript and there's 3 of them and one of you. don't bring a lawyer and you'll get ambushed. there's no debate with them; you apologize and suck their dick and hope they just give you like 20 hrs CS and a10 pg essay on honesty and candor. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966429) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:10 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin They would give me the probation you're saying? That then gives me a clean slate? I plan on explaining everything and apologizing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966444) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:12 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor get an attorney. if you go alone you're a fool. this isn't real court with appellate review. you have the burden of everything all the time here. it's not fair but if you don't heed my advice you'll get fucked. informal hearings are a zero sum game. some people get dinged some get 2nd chances. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966463) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:13 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin So if I have an attorney, they will likely pass me thru? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966473) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:14 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor yea but with some bullshit stipulation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966482) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:15 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin Which state do you have knowledge of? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966487) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:15 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor fl, tx, and ny. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966492) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:16 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin They say FL is the toughest. What about Cali? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966495) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:18 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor cali is pretty similar to fl i hear. fl sucked. i had an arrest, not a conviction, but an arrest from when i was 19 and i unsealed it and wrote them explanation along with the whole file from my attorney. they still gave my an informal hearing and luckily my firm sent a lawyer to rep me and i just got 10 hrs of CS and then they'd recommend me for admissions. but without an attorney their questions totally flamebaited me to say the cops were liars when they wanted me to apologize for shit i didn't do. so i apologized and they smiled and i got in after sweating my balls off for 6-8 weeks for their decision. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966513) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:21 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin Did you originally fail to disclose the arrest? Or did they haul you in just to ask you about the arrest? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966530) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:22 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor it asked if i was ever arrested and if so, even if expunged, to unseal it. i gave them everything in advance to the investigation committee and they still called my ass in for an informal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966543) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:23 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin So then you got the 10 hours of CS and that was it? For an arrest not a conviction. Don't they know an arrest is not a finding of guilt? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966553) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:25 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor yeah, it didn't seem like it.
they kept asking me why i did what i did and, i know they were hoping i'd argue and say the cop is a liar and innocent until guilty, but like my lawyer/boss said, i just said it was a lapse in judgment and i never did anything like that before or after and i'm sorry and i'm lucky the state was so kind to drop my case for lack of evidence (i didn't say the last part). |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:27 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin Assuming I can't an attorney, should I state everything is true and apologize and say I moved on while accomplishing a lot or just fight it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966573) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:31 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor i don't know. i'd have to see your whole file before recommending a tactic and even though i'm a fucking genius i still don't have two things: 1) a ca bar license but most importantly not 2) a friendship/employment history with the ca bar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966592) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:32 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin I have nothing else in my background. All of references were positive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966594) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:34 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor obviously there's something you're either missing telling us that the bar knows about or this former employer really hates you and wrote a super nasty letter (which the bar has to give you a copy of). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966608) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:35 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin He really hates me. He spread shit about me all over town. I have all other positive references from personal references and employers. I know bc I keep in touch with them. No arrests, lawsuits, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966616) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:36 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor you could kill him before the hearing. in the alternative, you can print out this thread and give it to an attorney so he can tell you how smart my advice is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966627) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:37 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin Not a good idea. Any serious suggestions? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966633) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:39 PM Author: avocado soul-stirring liquid oxygen fortuitous meteor and we come full circle. get an attorney. i gave you all the advice you need. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966646) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:41 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin thanks I will look into it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966657) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 6:57 PM Author: useless antidepressant drug abode bro trust me get an attorney , they tear people to shreds in these c&f hearings , they go through your entire application , you better have not fucked anything up, even your addressess
get an attorney with good credentials - ideally he will have been on the c & f panel previously |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 11:52 PM Author: rose plaza If one's application is completely clear except a simple thing, then it shouldn't be a problem not to have an attorney. In Cali, the attorney can only observe and not say anything. Most people go in without attorneys. I've heard most people at the informal do end up passing providing it was not a lack of candor issue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15974867) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 3:05 PM Author: Mildly autistic laughsome spot french chef What's it take to get dinged in TX? I haven't heard back shit from TX C&F. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15970570) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 4:44 PM Author: Heady locus Likely convictions, bad debts, cheating. How long have you been waiting? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15971406) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 11:53 PM Author: Mildly autistic laughsome spot french chef took july 2010 bar, turned in materials in January-ish I guess.
don't have anything but I had a habit (a few times) of getting random speeding tickets and then forgetting to pay them then getting warrants out for my arrest. never got arrested, but had to disclose the "failure to appear" charges that arose. I also think I may have forgotten to disclose one, so I'm worried that if I did, and they find out somehow, they'll think I am hiding stuff and I'm fucked. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:11 AM Author: rose plaza Call the courthouse where it occurred and get all the dates of the failures to appear. Write an addendum explaining how you forgot and how you learned from this mistake. Be candid and apologize. People that do that tend to fare better than those that object and yell and claim innocence. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15974991) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:08 PM Author: self-centered cerebral state turdskin Does anyone know what to expect? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15966423) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 12:55 PM Author: tan excitant temple sound barrier Sounds to me like you should save your money and not hire an attorney, basically their advice will be disclose everything and say you're sorry. If u were to fight accusations the bar wld consider that as a negative factor, note there are fewer 'mitigating circumstances' (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15969757) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 2:54 PM Author: tan excitant temple sound barrier (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15970494) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 6:07 PM Author: Apoplectic garrison I had one of these three years ago for a DUI I got right after getting out of LS. I sent them all my information and then after some more correspondence they told me I had to go to an informal hearing. Now, when I first read that phrase "informal hearing" I figured no big deal, its "informal." When I found out it was "the" hearing I started freaking out. I called an ethics attorney and he scared the shit out of me. He said I was fucked and that I should hire him right then or else they would ding me and I would have to wait 2 years.
Well, I didn't do that. Fuck that attorney. I drove to SF in a suit and tie and waited in the lobby. The whole time I'm nervous, freaking out, etc. I get into the room and the three people are there and they are not happy with me. They had gone over all the police reports and picked them apart. "When the cop pulled you over you told him you had nothing to drink, why did you lie to him?" Shit like that. The whole time I was shaking and thinking of how my whole life was over.
I answered their questions as humbly as I could. I had prepared a statement basically saying how getting a DUI was the greatest thing to ever happen to me (it was) because it taught me about triggers, alcoholism, etc.
A few weeks letter I get a letter in the mail saying I'm golden and I can officially be a lawyer.
My advice to you? If you didn't do anything wrong what the fuck are you sweating? Just because some guy made some shit up about you? First, get the evidence they have on you and prepare responses to all of it. Write up a report about your side of the story and edit it thoroughly. Try and get signed statements from anyone who would know anything. Send all of that in and you should be fine. But do not request an informal hearing, thats just silly talk. If it does come to an informal hearing have all your shit together and make sure you have all the deadlines down.
Thats it. |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 6:14 PM Author: Maize Marvelous Resort Had you been going to AA and doing things like that? Congrats btw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15972187) |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 6:23 PM Author: Apoplectic garrison I had to do AAs as part of the alcohol treatment that is standard here in CA (although not all counties require AA).
I had done all my community service and everything else as quickly as possible and didn't miss any deadlines, etc. Basically really did everything by the book with zero room for fucking up. |
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Date: September 5th, 2010 11:50 PM Author: rose plaza Glad that worked out for you! Did you get to choose San Fran versus LA or do they just assign you either city for the hearing?
I think it's best to be candid with them and apologize, versus try to fight them tooth and nail. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:54 AM Author: bearded mind-boggling sanctuary legend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15975323) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 12:56 AM Author: chest-beating adventurous gas station Pretty shitty that they try to screw you over with stuff that shouldn't even be a problem, like disgruntled employers and BS charges and shit like that. You would think there would be enough people who have actual issues that they could go after. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15975333) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:15 AM Author: Aggressive corn cake stage the bar loves to scrutinize and delay. If you have nothing to hide, stand up for yourself. You are supposed to be a lawyer. If you do have something substantial which you have not disclosed then seek counsel. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15975529) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 1:16 AM Author: chest-beating adventurous gas station like other people already pointed out, he doesn't really get to stand up for himself, or at least it's a terrible idea. all you can do is apologize and say you had a lapse of judgment and stupid shit like that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1414616&forum_id=2#15975542) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:06 AM Author: rose plaza If one decides to fight the "charges," remember the prospective applicant ALWAYS has the burden of proof. It's basically like saying you must prove yourself innocent, a nearly impossible standard. How does one prove themselves innocent???......Exactly, impossible.
Many people believe that what the bar does is borderline unconstitutional, but again, it's a privilege not a right to be a lawyer. So either you can consent, or not be a lawyer.
Even if you have nothing to hide, they will say they are denying your application because your present C & F is not moral due to your inability to control yourself and your confrontational nature. |