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New Law Grads are WORTHLESS
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Date: September 10th, 2010 1:55 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Let's face it: New law grads are absolutely worthless.
Law school has almost no relation to the practice of law, and students come out with no practical skill. The first year of practice is usually just a long training session, which effectively makes new attorneys value negative!
The funniest part about this is that law students have no viable way to make themselves marketable. If their only value is derived by the actual practice of law, and no firms are hiring lawyers, all new lawyers are going to end up being worthless forever!
Maybe we should consider changing the process of law school to match that of business school. If law students had valuable skills BEFORE entering law school, they might be more attractive as applicants AFTER law school.
Fuck, this profession is doomed.
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Date: September 10th, 2010 1:56 PM Author: Dark Crotch Institution sorry you didn't participate in any CLINICS or practical learning courses in law school, BRO (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010882) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 1:58 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Are you serious?
These are bullshit courses and you know it. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:03 PM Author: ruby school cafeteria Some are, some aren't. Obviously depends on the practice area. They should be improved though. Still they're better than some random class where you study foe one exam or write one paper and promptly forget everything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010940) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:04 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Alright, I will concede that some MAY be usefully. However, their limited scope and length make them just a drop in the bucket. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010949) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:06 PM Author: ruby school cafeteria Fair. The fact is ls in general teachers little that's useful. At least clinics are real world shit; they couldn't be much better though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010969) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:08 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Right. You could get the same result with the fundamentals in 1 year. Real world skills in law school are not the emphasis. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010981) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:01 PM Author: ruby school cafeteria Can't tell if you're serious, but if students did 6credit clinics for 2L And 3L each semester they'd be reasonably valuable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010930) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:03 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Define "reasonably" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010942) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:04 PM Author: ruby school cafeteria Could handle dwi cases start to finish with very little help. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010959) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:05 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Handle, sure. Do a good job? Probably not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010967) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:07 PM Author: ruby school cafeteria There's not all that much to be done, and with guidance they could do well enough to justify the client paying them etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010977) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:09 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Perhaps, but I just don't think the demand is high enough to warrant firms hiring new grads. The firm's may be able to break even, but thats not a good business risk. More than likely, the new grad will have limited ability, and will just cost the firm money. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010996) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 1:57 PM Author: Curious Meetinghouse Sneaky Criminal maybe it's like this @ ttt school. not GREAT institutions like NYwhU.
yeah right. i'm stupid and PERMAfucked |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 1:58 PM Author: Canary irate orchestra pit I expect in the long run that the law will no longer be a professions. Bar exams and licensing will disappear. Law school will be dramatically different. This generation of lawyers was screwed by being in the middle of that process. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010895) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 1:59 PM Author: Sooty new version i know how to use westlaw man, and i can bluebook like a motherfucker. i even know what the various parts of a memo AND brief are. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010906) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:02 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour So what makes you better than a paralegal? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010935) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:02 PM Author: Sooty new version bar admission and $200k of enslaving debt forcing me to work 80 hour weeks, of course. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010938) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:04 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Yeah, but can't we pay some guys in India to do what you know how to do for a 1/5 of the cost? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010958) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:07 PM Author: Sooty new version depends on what it is. have you ever outsourced anything to India? there are some big hurdles to overcome. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010973) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:14 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour That's fair. I haven't outsourced, but I understand the major problems. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16011041) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:11 PM Author: Blue national To be fair,
What makes a new HYSCCN graduate with decent class standing and passable writing skills "better" than your average paralegal is probably about 10-15 IQ points and much more finely honed logical reasoning abilities. That sounds pretty valuable to me if you're talking about high level legal work where mistakes can cost millions. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:11 PM Author: Sooty new version good point - a lot of what employers are paying for is just the screening that law school does for them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16011010) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:14 PM Author: Blue national To be fair,
Exactly. Legal employers really only give a shit about two things when they're hiring underlyings: intelligence and propensity for enduring pain.
Admission to a good law school speaks to the former.
Membership on LR/Ed Board of a Journal speaks to the latter.
Good class standing after the forced curves of 1L speaks to both.
...and that's why, short of crippling social awkwardness, those are just about the only things that legal employers really give a shit about at OCI. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:16 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Except for the boutique firms where the hiring requirements are absolutely ridiculous. This, however, serves my point even further. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16011053) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:18 PM Author: Blue national To be fair,
Right. That's what makes uberprestigious and uberselective boutique lit firms like Susman, Munger, etc. so unusual - because they take very few if any laterals, they have to put a lot more effort into actually finding the potential rainmakers upfront and cultivating them from the bottom up. It's a slightly different model from most BIGLAW firms. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:33 PM Author: confused theatre Insightful post. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16011152) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:12 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Right.
So the new HYSCCN hire is a long term speculative bet of sorts. Firms hire these guys trying to snag the next rainmaker. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:17 PM Author: Blue national To be fair,
That's optimistic. Proven rainmakers can always be pulled in as laterals.
I would say that most firms view HYSCCN hires as high end but expendable products that can (and will) be replaced as they burn out. They're lightbulbs - the firms buy the brightest and most expensive ones because they want to impress clients and protect their ass by casting the most light into all the corners, but if and when one burns out it's still just a lightbulb. And lots of burnout is expected.
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:26 PM Author: Mint public bath "which effectively makes new attorneys value negative!"
Bullshit.
New lawyers almost always generate realized billable hours that exceed the cost of the new lawyers. |
Date: September 10th, 2010 1:57 PM Author: exciting elite house edgy and cool OP. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010887) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 1:59 PM Author: maroon bull headed piazza fortuitous meteor worthless as a woman and as a lawyer. life must be so sad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010904) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:04 PM Author: exciting elite house totes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010952) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 1:59 PM Author: amber people who are hurt However, having a JD can be credited if you have some non-legal work experience to go along with it. People I know who worked business/finance jobs prior to law school have had no problem getting gigs in this market. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010910) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:01 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Yes. In that way it functions much like an MBA. However, most law students come from BULLSHIT humanities backgrounds. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010925) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:01 PM Author: Sooty new version oh hai (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010931) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:03 PM Author: shivering navy codepig den (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010939) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:05 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Sup bro? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010963) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:07 PM Author: shivering navy codepig den I have thought about this topic very much (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16010972) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:13 PM Author: well-lubricated plum parlour Have you any unique insights? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16011033) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:39 PM Author: Diverse salmon plaza do two semesters of a clinic and you will at least have some practical knowledge. I did one semester of civil law clinic, and I learned a shitload, made court appearances, did client intake, etc. Best class I took in LS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419626&forum_id=2#16011202) |