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Best way for newb to run 10k fast. First run fast or run 10k?
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 11:55 AM Author: dark violent stage coffee pot I am helping my buddy get in shape to run a 10k. We are running a 10 min/mile pace for 3 miles at this point, which I hardly consider exercise. Goal is to get him running a 10k at a 8 minute/mile pace.
Do you think the best way to get to that goal is to first get up to 10k at a 10 min/mile, then increase the speed...or increase the speed first and slowly work up to 10k? |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 11:56 AM Author: autistic hospital do both. alternate long runs with short speedy runs. work in intervals too. he needs to get used to the distance, but just doing that alone won't help in terms of increasing speed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23126708) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 12:05 PM Author: dark violent stage coffee pot that is a good idea. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23126743) |
Date: May 3rd, 2013 11:56 AM Author: Tan Business Firm Oh Horseback while screaming "The scholars are coming! The Scholars are coming!" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23126706) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 12:03 PM Author: Insane vigorous codepig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23126735) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 11:57 AM Author: Concupiscible awkward kitchen pervert I think get to endurance, then speed. But that's just me. So get to 10K, then have him work on improving time each time he does it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23126710) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 5:30 PM Author: Swashbuckling Meetinghouse Athletic Conference agree. it doesn't matter how fast you can run if you can't go 6.2 in the first place. once you have run 5 plus, then you can worry about strategy to become faster |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 12:41 PM Author: high-end crystalline scourge upon the earth temple For all but the most elite runners, endurance is far more important than speed in long distance training.
You would be far better off working up to 70 relaxed and relatively slow miles per week - 10 or 15% increase in mileage per week to be safe - than running 20 or 30 miles per week with speedwork. You also will be much less likely to get injured.
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 12:43 PM Author: exciting institution half-breed wtf is this advice? 70 for a 10k?? lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23126894) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 12:45 PM Author: high-end crystalline scourge upon the earth temple Are you talking about just being able to finish a 10k? or actually working towards being fast in a 10k?
If the former, then just run 3 or 4 miles three times a week at any speed and you'll be able to finish a 10k on race day.
If the latter, then as I said - endurance and high mileage are far more effective than speedwork. |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 5:07 PM Author: Odious Irate Native This. Any person who is not fat as fuck or smoker or hung over can literally go out and run a 10K RIGHT NOW. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23128273) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 12:46 PM Author: exciting institution half-breed get on a 5-6 day per week running schedule. Mon/Wed/Fri, do a normal run at normal pace, like 4-6 miles, regular pace. On Tues and/or Thurs, do a speed workout, like 4x800/6x400/1 mile hard 1 mile slow for 4 miles at a fast pace, combined with a 1mile warmup and cooldown. On Sunday do a 6-8 mile run.
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 12:47 PM Author: high-end crystalline scourge upon the earth temple See, this is stupid. Better to increase mileage and eliminate the speedwork until your endurance is extremely strong.
Go to the letsrun.com forums, they will be able to help you more than this idiot. |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 4:48 PM Author: light toaster you must have knees of steel. some fat noob is going to be out of action within a week on that flame schedule (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23128113) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 4:51 PM Author: dark violent stage coffee pot this guy is a fat 35 year old noob with a low tolerance for pain. this might kill him. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23128140) |
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Date: May 4th, 2013 5:55 PM Author: Slate filthy pit hissy fit PSA to FATS and NOOBS: TITCR
Only thing I might do dif is Tues = speed while Thurs = tempo. |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 2:58 PM Author: Honey-headed curious french chef juggernaut I don't train distance runners, so grain of salt. However, I am a USATF Level 2 coach and I can do a 10k @ 8 min mile pace and here is my advice:
Run to whatever distance you can at or below 2 min per lap. So, if you can do an 8 min mile, great, but as SOON as you dip below 2 min a lap pace run the next 400m like it's a finishing lap; you should be able to close that one out in say 1:40-1:45 pace. Then follow that up with a slow ass lap or two just to add some mileage.
Each week you'll likely notice that if you could do 4 laps < 2 min each, that the next week you can probably do 5 laps < 2 min each. Repeat until @ 10k (approx 25 laps) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 4:51 PM Author: dark violent stage coffee pot 2 min a mile pace? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23128148) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 4:56 PM Author: Honey-headed curious french chef juggernaut 2 min PER LAP, typo. 8 min mile pace on a track. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23128191) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 4:59 PM Author: disgusting set I ran a 37:48 10K last year. At your experience level, miles per week is the whole game. Assuming you are otherwise healthy, accumulated miles is the one and only thing that matters. I can't stress this enough. Run a lot, mostly slow, sometimes fast. Any and all talk about detailed training plans just doesn't apply yet.
BUT, do log your runs. And don't cheat when you record the time and distance. Build your miles per week up slowly (10-20% week max) and expect that it'll take a few months before you see big improvements. |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 5:03 PM Author: dark violent stage coffee pot thanks. That is the plan. Go up 5 minutes per run until he gets an hour.
BTW, I would like to clarify that this is not me. I can run a half marathon at a 7:45 pace. When I go with him for 25 minutes at a 10 min pace I really don't even feel like I am exercising. |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 5:06 PM Author: Honey-headed curious french chef juggernaut 10 min per mile pace is like walking, WTF. THIS is how I always see olds and fats "finishing" marathons and acting all smug. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23128264) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 5:16 PM Author: Odious Irate Native yo bro i am totally going to embarrass myself here, but i am strong as fuck, CUT, have excellent cardiovascular health, am a rowing and tennis master man, have played sports my entire life - and after about 4 miles i can't go faster than 10mi/min (even when I regularly ran 3+ times a week, I def couldn't keep this up for 6) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23128346) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 5:07 PM Author: disgusting set 10 minute pace is right around the median for men finishing a 5k. There's nothing wrong with that pace. And 7:45 for a half is definitely good. Actually, if you run 7:45 for a half you should be a good training resource for your friend already. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23128277) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 5:17 PM Author: Honey-headed curious french chef juggernaut JFC, over an hour to run a 10k? I don't even run longer than a mile at any one time, and when for kicks I was curious what distance I could cover if I could stave off boredom for an hour the treadmill (one of those 'road' simulating types) was reading 7.7 miles. If 10 min is median it's only because people are in SPS general fitness. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23128355) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 5:43 PM Author: disgusting set http://www.runningusa.org/statistics (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23128511) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 8:14 PM Author: Odious Irate Native LOL @ thinking a treadmill is at all reflective of how fast you can run on the road JUST LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23129364) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 8:19 PM Author: Swashbuckling Meetinghouse Athletic Conference every post you've made in this thread is bullshit in case you're counting (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23129382) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 5:18 PM Author: dark violent stage coffee pot I have no idea how I got to the point where I am now. It has been at least 10 years since I couldn't do it, probably more. That is why I have no idea what he should do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23128362) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2013 5:22 PM Author: Honey-headed curious french chef juggernaut I will say this, to some degree everyone is different, and even within the same week your capacity can vary a lot. Probably not any one "right" path to achieve his goal, but at some point you HAVE to get your body accustomed to running much faster than the pace you're looking to achieve. So, for him to finish w/ 8 min a mile pace, he's going to have to have the capacity to run a mile under 7 min, IMO. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23128384) |
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Date: May 4th, 2013 5:17 PM Author: Wonderful Mood Theater Stage Most training resources will still tell you that you need to work on an endurance base before even considering speed work. If he's currently struggling to do a 5k at a 10 min/mil, a fair amount of speed will come just from building his endurance base.
The dude above who suggested having him slowly build up to 70 miles/week before starting speed work was giving good advice. If you start focusing on speed too soon, he's going to get injured. |
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Date: May 4th, 2013 5:31 PM Author: disgusting set Yeah, I agree with the slow build up of base miles and not worrying about running super-duper fast for a while. But 70mpw consistently is getting toward what really, really competitive runners do and is out of scope for OP's friend for a couple years even assuming he goes full-tilt into crazy runner mode. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2246314&forum_id=2#23134167) |
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Date: May 4th, 2013 5:37 PM Author: Wonderful Mood Theater Stage I don't disagree that 70mpw is a lot, but I do think building a 70mpw base will do more for the guy than 30mpw + a couple nights at the track doing intervals, etc.
maybe the compromise is 30mpw base + fartleks every now and then |