Our history is something to be proud of, as we have generally not fought wars of conquest and we never became an Empire, we fought wars to either protect ourselves or our ideals.

Feel pride when you see that flag this weekend, this is the greatest country on Earth.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40533807)

But see, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPzClXk7GWw

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40535722)

We should be atleast ashamed, if not suicidal

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40551159)

There’s nothing left dude. It’s all gone.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40533814)

This is just delusional sorry

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40533821)

I disagree entirely. Mercenaries get paid, but we end up footing the bill for our stupid foreign adventures. We're just corrupt and ruled by special interests.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40533972)

Not yet. Trump was against it which is why we're seeing a break from it. If HRC was POTUS we would have had plenty of wars. But for it to truly end the US is going to need a disaster. But I think that is actually coming.

"there is nothing to say that the US ceasing to be World Police is going to usher in an era of world peace"

Of course not. I don't think anyone is claiming this.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40534220)

But it also has nothing to do with how we live our own lives as Americans. We are obese and barely human, consuming smut media or actual porn with Cheetos.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40536081)

2. "we have generally not fought wars of conquest and we never became an Empire, we fought wars to either protect ourselves or our ideals."

this is literally 2nd-grade level naive

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40533866)

2. Oh yea? Link to the US colonizing the world like prominent European countries did. Or link to the US engaging in Napoleonic conquests of other nations, or impressing other country's citizens into service, etc. etc. etc. In context to other nations we have a lot to be proud of.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40533891)

I agree with the previous poster. We love the US because it is ours and provides us with a good QOL and freedom, not because it is somehow the most moral. It isn't but I don't really care and you shouldn't either. But if it stops being free and ours and providing us with a good QOL then it will be time to leave.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40533931)

I don't love Neocon foreign policy but the time since WWII has been the most peaceful time western nations have ever seen in recorded history and it was US leadership that ushered, and preserved, this peace.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40534031)

The US didn't merely "fight wars to exist." The US fought wars for expansion, for power, for influence, for resources, etc. Same as all the other great powers. Yes, that's how you become a great power but there's no need to pretend that the US was somehow different here just because we never got into African colonialism (except for Liberia, now that I think about it).

"I don't love Neocon foreign policy but the time since WWII has been the most peaceful time western nations have ever seen in recorded history and it was US leadership that ushered, and preserved, this peace."

Yeah, not sure that is really "US leadership" so much as MAD created by all the major powers having nuclear weapons + widely available birth control leading to people having only 1-2 kids in the US, the USSR, China and Europe. But for that, I don't think there's any doubt we would have had WW3 between the Communist powers and the West.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40534071)

What makes a country worthwhile isn't that they have a perfect history, but the freedoms and QOL they afford their citizens and the sense of belonging that those citizens feel to that nation-state. This is where the US is failing (no one really feels American anymore, freedoms are falling away, future generations are probably going to live worse than prior ones, etc.). Not because of an imperfect history, as though a perfect history exists anywhere. Ask any Russian if they think Russia has a "perfect" history and they'll laugh. It doesn't mean they don't love their country or their people. Replace Russia with China or Poland or Israel or whatever and it'll be the same story. I deliberately excluded western countries because this particular disease is afflicting Western Civ. But your entire game here actually plays into the lib mindset.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40534164)

our pretext for vietnam was the COMMIES. brit pretext for colonizing was racial inferiority. i'd say they had the better argument

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40533941)

This isn't to say the US did the wrong thing there and that we shouldn't be proud of defeating what was at the time a truly great power. But you're trying to make everything black and white, with the US this perfect snowflake on the side of good against a horde of evil that without the US would simply create a hellscape Mad Max world. But that's just propaganda. IRL, the US primarily exists to benefit Americans and American elites. Just like all nations do.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40534108)

Also people forget what pieces of shit the Japanese were during this time period - the war they waged was overwhelmingly against civilians. Current numbers are something like ~15 million chinese they genocided.....

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40542658)

Date: July 3rd, 2020 5:51 PM

Author: ESL TM..,..;;.(🦈)

Yep. Also, in general, I will say that WW2 has to be the clearest "good guys vs bad guys" war you can possibly imagine. Germany and Japan were comic book villain levels of evil.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=#)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40542708)

But in terms of moral culpability, ww2 stands out in ways that are very unique in this regard to other major wars (ww2's contemporaries). Eg the losing side killed the most people, something like ~80% of deaths, overwhelmingly civilians. The u.s., britain, and soviet union were allies in that they were all attacked by german / japanese aggression. (again soviets were collaborators so they gunk stuff up). The ruthless efficiency of the concentration camps and the behavior of the japanese army (mass genocide, sexual enslavement etc) was a stark contrast to the behavior of the western democracies...

If you're just throwing the soviet union like a hot potato on the ally side and saying "lol none of that applies" you're being disingenuous - any halfway sober analysis of the war will produce far more clear moral boundaries than in most wars, which was all his point was

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40542783)

They were finding dudes in the jungles into the 60s and 70s still fighting WW2 for the emperor.... Hiroo Onoda being the most famous case in '72 I believe. The point being - even after the first two nukes there was internal division / very powerful factions opposing the Emperor that didn't want to surrender - Tojo himself for starters.

What counterfactual scenarios are you imagining in place of delivering the two atomic bombs?

Curtis LeMay was going to park almost our entire fleet of B-29s off the Marianas and run round the clock fire bombings of Japan.

Also lest we forget - Japan was genociding ~20,000 Chinese, Laotian, Vietnamese, etc per week at that point. The numbers keep getting revised upwards every decade or so but latest is something like 15 million civilians killed by Japan.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40542601)

"looking at the state of radical leftism, they don't seem very defeated"

I really do agree with the people saying that this is actually the offspring of an old KGB program from the 1960s.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40534204)

It's nuts to think they just let reporters go chill with dudes under fire, then of course the effects of only having one sides atrocities broadcast to the world while the other side, kept an iron grip on the information it released out into the world where people just saw their swamp hospitals and not their vc communist atrocities

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40542681)

It’s for the Jews, lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40536087)

LOL, I want the best for America because it is my country, bro, but if you believe this you haven't really been to many other countries. LJL at this Hannity-level dreck.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40534100)

The US has some advantages over each of them but I'd rather be a poor in those places than the US.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40534902)

So I guess you have Qatar and UAE, Singapore, and Brunei as candidates. I don't know enough about any of these places to really comment. All are small, fairly homogenous, and next to powerful neighbors that could pwn them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40542843)

So the US is hands down the best place to be a poor minority. Now apologize to MW.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40542864)

Remember, this was the statement: "This is the freest and most just nation on Earth. Nowhere in the world are the poor or mal-adapted treated better and nowhere on Earth do normal people have more opportunity to live a happy life."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40551366)

Edit: i will add the brits did ok too. But we are an extension of their history to some degree, even on 4th of july. Read up some time on how the dutch and the spanish ran their colonies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40534107)

Lmao. You gotta learn history man. I love America too, but crack a book.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40534109)

*builds 22,000 nuclear warheads*

*uses CIA/military to attempt to topple every anti-US gov't in world*

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40535771)

Bases all over the world, way beyond what even the British were able to do.

Just because we (and the Soviets) figured out it made more sense to have client states than officially draw "empire" lines on a map...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40535994)

Germans and Japanese would be surprised to hear that they are colonies of the US.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40536025)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40536056)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40536094)

France and England were once empires but no one would call them empires today, yet they both had military bases in other continents.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40536115)

Of course.

"France and England were once empires but no one would call them empires today, yet they both had military bases in other continents."

No one would call them empires today because their power has declined massively and they lost the overwhelming majority of their overseas holdings. The US is an empire because our power and scope is truly global, and it is exercised to control nations and governments around the world. Governments that are vulnerable and problematic to the US get overthrown. We usually offer some sort of pretense that may or may not end up total BS ("there are WMDs in Iraq!" "we have to overthrow the Libyan government so Libya is peaceful!"). But all empires do this shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40536158)

And the US doesn't have any colonies, it's not an empire.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40536170)

The US is an empire because it controls numerous countries around the world and can get its way in global affairs through military might. As others have said, the fact that we rule this way instead of through direct colonies isn't important. This is generally how the USSR was an empire as well.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40536191)

I.e. America's true might and influence came of age in a postwar world where that way of doing business was no longer acceptable - for a variety of reasons but probably most significantly the change in global media / importance of global public opinion, and especially after millions of lives were sacrificed fighting against Japanese imperialism and German fascism, i.e. fighting for the freedom of others.... we weren't about to turn around and start colonizing territories in such postwar environment.

But make no mistake - America has a global economic empire that wields incredible influence and power with all its might, just in a modern sophisticated manner rather than African colonial holdings....

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40544116)

My fiancee is from a family that's pretty well connected in central american country (eg high up in central banks, her and her siblings have top u.s. educations and have worked for the world bank / IMF etc) - and the corruption and dynamics in the foreign aid programs are just straight up a more sophisticated version of "colonial governor" mechanics w/ native networks. e.g. following the policies we want, allowing corporations access to labor / resources etc. Interestingly - the corruption ensures that the incentives are correctly aligned between the two parties, America distributing aid, and the administrators receiving the aid who set policies, grant corporations access to cheap labor, resources like mineral rights etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40544354)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Liberia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territories_of_the_United_States

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40535957)

No one believes that the phillipines is a colony of the US.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40536015)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40535129)

He probably wants a statue for Stephen Garcia too

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40535203)

Hmmm..

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40535361)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40535743)

that said, the IKEA guy is Swedish, the Uniqlo guy is Japanese, the Zara guy is Spanish, etc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40536592)

Possible certainly, but much more friction in the generating process....

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40544312)

2. The US is a more benevolent power than past empires. I do think the US catches more shit than it deserves in this regard.

3. American style capitalism (boot-straps and the American Dream (TM)) may have worked fairly well in the past but it’s failing in the face of a modern economy that exacerbates the income and wealth inequality problem that is inherent in the system. Young people are far less patriotic and more likely to embrace alternative ideologies as it becomes more obvious that they will, in the aggregate, be worse off than prior generations.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40535678)

the only people saying this are insane libs, pumos, Russian Jews

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40535731)

And Germany and France and most of Europe have much stricter immigration requirements so they don't have the same level of poor to begin with.

Then you have other countries like Japan that don't even allow immigration in the first place much less from poor people, and others like Australia where it's also difficult to immigrate.

The US is basically open borders, or was before 6 months ago, and the people who come here are poor. Even legal immigration is chain migration, not that of Canada or other euro countries based on merit.

OP is right but it's not even a fair comparison to begin with, because the other countries dont take the truly poor to begin with, and we do, in enormous, demographically changing, legal and illegal, numbers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40535768)

One of the worst countries in the world

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40536065)

They’re mentally ill

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4574920&forum_id=2#40537981)