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Best exit option for burned out solo lawmo?
| Turquoise frum church queen of the night | 01/09/23 |
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| Turquoise frum church queen of the night | 01/09/23 |
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| Turquoise frum church queen of the night | 01/09/23 |
| Crawly address | 01/09/23 |
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| aqua water buffalo locale | 01/09/23 |
| Aphrodisiac office death wish | 01/10/23 |
| Turquoise frum church queen of the night | 01/09/23 |
| Aphrodisiac office death wish | 01/10/23 |
| Aphrodisiac office death wish | 01/10/23 |
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| Anal indian lodge new version | 01/09/23 |
| Turquoise frum church queen of the night | 01/09/23 |
| red forum community account | 01/09/23 |
| Turquoise frum church queen of the night | 01/09/23 |
| red forum community account | 01/09/23 |
| Boyish lodge mexican | 01/09/23 |
| red forum community account | 01/09/23 |
| Turquoise frum church queen of the night | 01/09/23 |
| Histrionic Background Story | 01/09/23 |
| Fragrant Locus Reading Party | 01/09/23 |
| red forum community account | 01/09/23 |
| tantric slate puppy orchestra pit | 01/09/23 |
| Trip cyan yarmulke | 01/09/23 |
| provocative sable brunch | 01/10/23 |
| Histrionic Background Story | 09/01/25 |
| cannon | 06/26/26 |
| Anal indian lodge new version | 01/09/23 |
| Turquoise frum church queen of the night | 01/09/23 |
| red forum community account | 01/09/23 |
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| Titillating fluffy space | 01/09/23 |
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| indecent twinkling liquid oxygen | 01/09/23 |
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| irradiated electric furnace | 01/09/23 |
| indecent twinkling liquid oxygen | 01/09/23 |
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| Know-it-all Galvanic Clown | 01/09/23 |
| red forum community account | 01/09/23 |
| lemon insecure plaza | 01/09/23 |
| red forum community account | 01/10/23 |
| Fragrant Locus Reading Party | 01/09/23 |
| Aphrodisiac office death wish | 01/10/23 |
| cerebral preventive strike | 01/09/23 |
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| Know-it-all Galvanic Clown | 09/01/25 |
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| Turquoise frum church queen of the night | 01/11/23 |
Poast new message in this thread
Date: January 9th, 2023 3:55 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night Solo commercial lit attorney. Burned out. Definitely don't want to go back to a firm or in-house (even if it was an option).
Need to make at least $200k per year. Any options or am I fucked for life? |
Date: January 9th, 2023 3:56 PM Author: mind-boggling laser beams Sad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45764999) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 3:56 PM Author: lake shrine place of business Sounds like you’ve kind of ruled everything out. Learn to code maybe? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765001) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:03 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night Ruled out law, yes. I want to get out completely.
Sick of arguing and being detail oriented and sitting alone in a room for hours reading documents. Coding seems like the same thing minus arguing, so I don't think it's for me.
I want to get out of the office and talk to people and be social again. Some kind of business development maybe. |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:08 PM Author: lake shrine place of business Yeah those jerbs exist but the ones that pay $200K or more are generally not offered to burned out self-employed litigators grasping for a career change.
Remove the salary requirement and you might have something to work with here (that could be a path to $200K or better in idk 5 years?)
But if you won’t consider anything less, better fall back in love with litigating and fast. I meant you’ve ruled out everything that’s an actual possibility for you in my earlier post. |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:10 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night Most important part of being a solo is doing constant business development so it's not a completely unrelated skillset. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765098) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:12 PM Author: lake shrine place of business I don’t disagree, but good luck convincing a decision maker hiring for a $200K+ jerb of that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765110) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 1:16 AM Author: Aphrodisiac office death wish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45767512) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:01 PM Author: Soul-stirring Mahogany Messiness Suck dick, maybe?
At your age, you probably won't be able to demand depending on where you live.
There is nothing else you can do with your age & skillset that commands $200k a year.
Either lower your expectations or learn to deepthroat. |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:02 PM Author: Lascivious drab garrison Why can't you just cut your caseload to whatever you find manageable? How did you get the clients and how much do you bill them at? |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:03 PM Author: Boyish lodge mexican lol need to make 200k (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765041) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:04 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night I'm not sure how anyone with a family lives on less, to be honest. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765047) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:04 PM Author: pale stag film people who are hurt what figure wouldn't make you lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765049) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:10 PM Author: Boyish lodge mexican not sure, but lol at being a middle aged person transferring zero skills or experience into a 200k+ job that is not SALES
think like the boss. "Hey let me give you 250,000 guaranteed a year, out of our profits, to do....." WHAT? How are you going to earn him $350k+ that year |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:16 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night I'm not opposed to sales at all.
How hard is it to break into a decent PETERMAN APPROVED sales job, though? |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 1:57 AM Author: Concupiscible massive chapel what clique are you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45767551) |
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Date: January 11th, 2023 10:21 AM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night Scumbag TBH (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45773259) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:07 PM Author: aqua water buffalo locale I'm basically in the same boat. My plan is either to make enough money to someday stop working, or collect on that disability or death insurance policy. I don't see how there's any other options here.
It's not all that depressing, my firm is doing well, realistically I can keep this up for about another 15 or so years that should probably do it. It is an awful grind though and I wish I didn't have to do it |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:12 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night Yup (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765105) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:45 PM Author: Crawly address my phone rings 15 to 25 times a day with the self-inflicted problems and drama of absolute proles (even rich ones). Even if its lucrative I do not think I can keep this up for 15-20 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765313) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 5:05 PM Author: Boyish lodge mexican feel like i wrote your post.
it bewilders me that, somehow, I ended up with the job of being the go-to guy for retard proles in absolute hair-on-fire crises.
Thats the entirety of my job. Shit exploding in your life and youre manic about it? Call Im Done Here!
How on earth did this happen |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 6:03 PM Author: aqua water buffalo locale I don't know how I got stuck with this, all I know is that the only way out is to be successful and win your way out. CSLG does the same thing we do and you don't hear him complaining. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765613) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 1:47 AM Author: Aphrodisiac office death wish That's because he has a team of paralegals that handle every aspect of the case beyond intake (more specifically: signing the client) & some negotiations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45767538) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 6:05 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night You are both describing my life, too.
Over the holidays I had a difficult former client (small business) get a demand letter for some stupid shit they did and they just told the plaintiff's attorney to "send it to quotemo, he's my attorney" even though I'm not and have no interest in taking this case. Of course the plaintiff's attorney started hounding me while I wasted time reminding the client that I'm not their attorney for this. |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 1:49 AM Author: Aphrodisiac office death wish Literally just had this happen. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45767540) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 1:45 AM Author: Aphrodisiac office death wish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45767536) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 1:18 AM Author: Aphrodisiac office death wish Mine rings at least twice that. There are times I have to literally turn it off. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45767514) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 9:34 AM Author: provocative sable brunch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45768045) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 10:08 PM Author: Swashbuckling unhinged spot partner https://recruiting.myapps.paychex.com/appone/MainInfoReq.asp?R_ID=5177241& (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766741) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:09 PM Author: aromatic orchid alpha You have to wonder who would want to pay a burned out former lawyer $200k to not practice law. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765077) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:11 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night $200k is not that much any more. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765102) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:23 PM Author: aromatic orchid alpha It's like 250% of the median HHI. That's a ton. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765201) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 12:23 AM Author: spruce rough-skinned potus You can easily get 200k total comp in tech doing some jdpreferred bs or becoming a project manager. It's all bad tho. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45767405) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:12 PM Author: Tan harsh degenerate resort age / nw? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765109) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:12 PM Author: ivory university window (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765113) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 9:36 AM Author: red forum community account (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45768055) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 9:50 PM Author: Mauve crusty boiling water (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45771898) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:31 PM Author: Anal indian lodge new version I thought becoming a solo was the best decision pumos had ever made, like a manna from heaven? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765245) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:33 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night It is 868450485 compared to practicing law in a firm or in-house. I just want to do something else with my life now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765252) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:34 PM Author: red forum community account Work the front desk at a hotel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765254) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:35 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night My kid likes to watch the animated Curious George TV show and it really makes me want to be a doorman at a luxury building, not flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765260) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:35 PM Author: red forum community account Are these jerbs available to burnt-out biglawyers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765262) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:37 PM Author: Boyish lodge mexican JD opens a lot of doors (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765268) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:37 PM Author: red forum community account (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765272) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:38 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765273) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:44 PM Author: Histrionic Background Story (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765310) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:46 PM Author: Fragrant Locus Reading Party (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765315) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 5:04 PM Author: red forum community account (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765403) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 5:20 PM Author: tantric slate puppy orchestra pit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765479) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 8:51 PM Author: Trip cyan yarmulke (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766309) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 9:37 AM Author: provocative sable brunch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45768058) |
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Date: September 1st, 2025 12:24 PM Author: Histrionic Background Story (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#49228215) |
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Date: June 26th, 2026 1:08 AM Author: cannon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#49963570) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:36 PM Author: Anal indian lodge new version I think you have a good thing going and should probably appreciate it. Why not work a little less and be social outside of work (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765263) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:39 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night You're probably right. It's just depressing to think I've wasted years and years of my life doing a job that has been so unsatisfying. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765278) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:40 PM Author: red forum community account (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765285) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:42 PM Author: Anal indian lodge new version All jobs suck. Very few exceptions. I think it's better to live our UMC life with a shit job than to be poor.
What you really ought to do instead of scrambling for some entry level sales job is to invest in a business and find people to run it. |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:41 PM Author: Titillating fluffy space weird, in biglaw right now and have the itch to go solo, but I guess the grass is not really greener (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765287) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:43 PM Author: red forum community account It's all $hit :)? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765303) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:44 PM Author: indecent twinkling liquid oxygen It's a lot greener compared to biglaw, but it's still law. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765311) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:53 PM Author: Titillating fluffy space yeah I think the same thing will happen to me even if I become a successful solo, ill just get bored of lawshit anyways (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765341) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 5:12 PM Author: irradiated electric furnace I don't see how solo or small firm life is better unless you are a CSLG type who is literally making millions.
With or without a boss you have the stress of litigation and demands of servicing clients. |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 8:57 PM Author: indecent twinkling liquid oxygen -No boss
-No fake emergencies created by your own team
-Ability to decline cases you know will be more stress than they're worth
-You don't have to litigate. I was a litmo and got out of it. Last year I billed ~1000 hours drafting contracts and reviewing the kind of stuff I've reviewed hundreds of times before and took home $350k after expenses. Beats the shit out of being at a firm. |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 9:06 PM Author: Titillating fluffy space So you switched to tranny stuff? How’d you learn the area after doing lit? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766364) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 9:20 PM Author: indecent twinkling liquid oxygen Yeah. Westlaw's Practical Law and Lexis Practical Guidance or whatever it's called are very helpful. For stuff I didn't think I could competently figure out at first, I hired contract attorneys and eventually learned how to do what they did. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766453) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 9:21 PM Author: Titillating fluffy space How’d you get clients? How much do u pay for practical law (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766464) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 9:59 PM Author: indecent twinkling liquid oxygen I got pretty good at developing a social media presence and getting speaking engagements. All my clients come through that.
I think Practical law is like $350/mo for solos. |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 10:07 PM Author: diverse windowlicker can you explain more. that seems nuts that you went from litigation to a contracts drafting expert as a solo with 'social media presence.' like explain more details of how this works. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766740) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 12:10 AM Author: indecent twinkling liquid oxygen Left biglaw with ultimate goal of getting out of lit eventually.
Year 1: Still doing lit - a few very small referrals from a friend to get me started, grinding out a year of litigating at ~$250/hr rate. Start writing articles about the area of compliance/consulting/tranny stuff I want to focus on. Get invited to speak at a conference related to that area. Start social media pages. Don't make much money.
Year 2: Still about 80% lit, one solid referral from old firm kept me afloat, but they were psychotic to work for. Rate up to $300. Have a few transactional clients that I use a contract attorney to do all the heavy lifting for. Learning the ropes so to speak. Focus on posting daily social media content related to that practice area. Get lucky that stuff gets reshared by a few big accounts. Net $320k.
Year 3: Maybe about 50% lit now. I understand how to do the "greatest hits" contracts in my practice area that I see over and over again. Use contract attorneys for stuff I don't feel like I can competently figure out. Get better at figuring out what social content gets more reach and engagement. Net $415k thanks to a few lit cases going the right way.
Year 4: Wrap up final lit case. Social/online presence continues to grow and keeps the pipeline full. Rate at $500. Landed some big clients that keep me busy every month. Refer everything lit-related out. Net $350k.
This year: Off to a good start, made $15k so far since Jan 1. |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 3:38 PM Author: diverse windowlicker Thats 180 and inspiring , thanks for the response. I am doing something very similar as I just left biglaw as a litigator too and getting into an area now as a solo that i previously had little interaction with
would love to know for the social media stuff if you have any resources that you found really great in helping you out |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 10:01 PM Author: irradiated electric furnace Can I take you out to lunch sometime? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766712) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 12:13 AM Author: indecent twinkling liquid oxygen Sure if you're in LA (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45767384) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:46 PM Author: Know-it-all Galvanic Clown What floor is your office on? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765318) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 4:47 PM Author: red forum community account (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765321) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 5:03 PM Author: lemon insecure plaza cr.
pull a Garry Hoy. |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 12:48 AM Author: red forum community account (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45767463) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 5:09 PM Author: Fragrant Locus Reading Party (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765427) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 1:53 AM Author: Aphrodisiac office death wish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45767547) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 6:08 PM Author: cerebral preventive strike become a Director at F100 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45765635) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 9:14 PM Author: costumed amethyst ticket booth cuck Solo transactional work instead? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766415) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 9:18 PM Author: fuchsia theatre affirmative action Mega Million$ drawing tomorrow for over a Billion (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766443) |
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Date: September 1st, 2025 12:43 PM Author: Know-it-all Galvanic Clown (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#49228270) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 9:23 PM Author: adventurous corner coldplay fan I make $75k (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766471) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 12:12 AM Author: wild magical feces keepsake machete (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45767376) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 9:38 AM Author: provocative sable brunch this is a big improvement brother
ur doing great |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 9:44 PM Author: adventurous corner coldplay fan it's a big improvement over delivering cookies, but at this rate I"ll be making 125k when I retire (65k in 2022 dollars)
If it weren't for ethereum I'd be living in a studio apartment |
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Date: January 11th, 2023 2:59 PM Author: Titillating fluffy space (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45774692) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 9:27 PM Author: comical rigor nowag Get into construction. You could make manager in 2 years easy, and if you work your ass off, you could make low 100s until then (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766483) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 10:01 PM Author: violent vermilion gunner shitlib Poast on xo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766717) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 10:04 PM Author: copper supple box office jap Move to a farm and raise ducks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766730) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 10:10 PM Author: Exhilarant Mischievous Filthpig Try to slowly transition to tranny work over the course of 2-3 years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45766750) |
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Date: January 9th, 2023 11:26 PM Author: talented national turdskin Sex with men for money. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45767195) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 9:52 PM Author: Violet razzmatazz pit antidepressants (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45771907) |
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Date: January 10th, 2023 9:57 PM Author: Vigorous hall Why the fuck don't solos hire people and implement systems so they can be the business owner and have other grunts deal with the hair-on-fire clients? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45771924) |
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Date: January 11th, 2023 10:21 AM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night I tried this and get emails from my clients like "I appreciate that you hired an associate but the work product isn't at the same level and we need you to be the one who works with us."
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Date: January 11th, 2023 11:08 AM Author: Titillating fluffy space u need to get into an area with less demadning/ more prole clients (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45773519) |
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Date: January 11th, 2023 12:41 PM Author: Turquoise frum church queen of the night (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5267792&forum_id=2#45773993) |