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Latham NALP 2008 associate count versus NOW
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Date: March 21st, 2009 12:11 AM Author: contagious corner Associate Count by office: (NALP 2008) (NOW) (change) NY: 293 194 (-99, -34%) Chicago: 128 103 (-25, -20%) LA: 202 179 (-23, -11%) DC: 180 119 (-61, -34%) SF: 110 101 (-9, -9%) SV: 80 64 (-16, -20%)
NALP 2008 numbers are as of Feb 1, 2008, so just over 1 year ago. NOW is taken from Latham's website That's 233 associates lost across only these 6 offices (though these are the 6 largest...I think) They also lost some partners. More might be coming... |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 12:13 AM Author: Frum masturbator holy god dc got a new asshole torn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202099) |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 8:37 AM Author: Cream gaped garrison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16066751) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 12:13 AM Author: Cordovan brethren last year's nalp wouldn't include the first years right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202103) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 12:14 AM Author: contagious corner yeah I guess that's right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202116) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 12:14 AM Author: Cordovan brethren i think NY shrank by 130, that's what i've been hearing. makes sense since 1st years wouldn't have been on nalp 08. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202125) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:29 AM Author: Translucent base WAIT, the "performance" layoff people are still on the website till the end of april i think, so that figure underestimates the layoff numbers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202888) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 5:25 PM Author: heady high-end kitchen Wow, I hope this analysis is done again in May. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207201) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 5:27 PM Author: Ruby mediation dick taint firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207220) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 10:43 AM Author: Hyperventilating Judgmental Stag Film Milk Subject: DC office Wow, I know lots of smart people, who were on LR/top of their class and had prestigious clerkships, who chose Latham DC. I hope none of them were affected... This sucks. Latham DC used to be a "prestigious" place to work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11204482) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 4:07 PM Author: At-the-ready chapel goal in life EVERYBODY DANCE NOW (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11206700) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 4:08 PM Author: Amber mind-boggling clown public bath not much dancing going on at Latham NY, sadly (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11206708) |
Date: March 21st, 2009 12:15 AM Author: Cordovan brethren OOOHHH DEEEEAAAR GOOOOD THE HORROR!!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202131) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:10 AM Author: Ruby mediation Wow, thanks for this. What a bloodbath (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202696) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:28 AM Author: Translucent base what about all the times they DIDN'T lay people off? why don't they get credit for that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202881) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:31 AM Author: Ruby mediation Let's focus on rancid dick taint like Latham first (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202904) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:33 AM Author: Translucent base maybe you should look at Latham as half full instead of half empty regarding the associate headcount. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202917) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:33 AM Author: Ruby mediation LOL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202922) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 10:45 AM Author: Peach scourge upon the earth dingle berry 177. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11204489) |
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Date: March 2nd, 2010 5:43 PM Author: Wine stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#14282016) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 4:51 PM Author: Razzmatazz Canary Dilemma yeah, and what about all the time Ted Bundy wasn't murdering people (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11206994) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 3:20 AM Author: Mewling Marvelous Center Marketing Idea oh my (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11203691) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 10:46 AM Author: histrionic garnet point ya (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11204491) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:33 PM Author: trip roast beef national security agency ouch man (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11205408) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 4:50 PM Author: Appetizing beta school cafeteria The L&W death spiral scenario is falling into place.
1. Top associates with top credentials head for the door. Firms that over-fired, scaled back too drastically summer hiring, or are just doing OK ITE are still willing to hire on a very limited basis.
They realize the firm is at great danger of imploding, and that being good just isn't enough when certain years and practice groups see layoff rates above 50%.
They also see no real advancement up the hierarchy or increase in quality of work because all the lay-offs at the low end of the seniority spectrum.
They also worry about partners hording the work.
2. Top partners at core offices with transferable books start leaving in groups of 1-5, cherry picking the best associates and support staff to leave with them. Irell, Jones Day, Quinn, K&L Gates, and Keker I predict will be among the firms they leave for. Too many low-end partners, especially in corporate, to subsidize.
Most of these other firms have cultures where very wide partner disparities are tolerated (as in 20 or 30 to 1 ratios between top and bottom partner compensation.)
3. Evan a small number of partner defections sap morale and the rats start abandoning the sinking ship as best they can. |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 4:53 PM Author: Ruby mediation How long till this plays out? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207011) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 5:08 PM Author: Appetizing beta school cafeteria It has already started, but I am not predicting an immediate Heller style collapse. Give them a year maybe?
I wonder if they are having any issues with very expensive office leases. They seemed to expand a lot in the ultra-expensive Manhattan market right as office rates were bubbling up to insane levels.
These contracts are normally 10-year leases and the sublet market is extremely weak. Lease issues have been known to cause partnership meltdown. Why should someone in LA with a book of boring but stable local clients be on the hook for paying for class-A Midtown office space that is empty or being sublet for a big loss each month? Why pay 6-months severance to cover corporate partner over-hiring that you never benefited from? Why should your top associates have pro bono work started by the fired associates foisted onto them?
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Date: March 21st, 2009 5:18 PM Author: Ruby mediation Good points all.
Seems like things are not looking good |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 5:18 PM Author: Sinister purple macaca philosopher-king ip partners have already left. some other partners have jumped ship too but i can't remember which groups. i think someone from appellate left for the obama administration. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207154) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 5:24 PM Author: Ruby mediation PWN3d!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207196) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:07 PM Author: Cordovan brethren (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207581) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:12 PM Author: sepia bearded depressive I predict that Latham will break into the V3 by 2011. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207608) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:14 PM Author: Cordovan brethren ny to 190! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207625) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:30 PM Author: contagious corner Did similar comparisons for Sidley, Mayer, Gibson, Kirkland Gibson and Kirkland have increased their headcounts at most or all offices and by a significant amount in a few offices (e.g. Kirkland in NY and Chicago) Mayer and Sidley have seen a mostly decreases(~5-10% drop in headcount overall) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:31 PM Author: Amber mind-boggling clown public bath yah. i know sidley didnt lay off first years. and i don't think mayer did either. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207748) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:50 PM Author: burgundy idiot I've been keeping statistics on Gibson & Latham for the past two months. Every now and then I just do an all attorney search on their websites and record the numbers.
Here's what I have:
Date Latham Gibson
1/28 2075 768 1/29 2077 768 1/30 2075 768 2/2 2072 768 2/3 2074 768 2/9 2084 768 2/12 2096 768 2/25 2114 768 3/5 2058 768 3/12 1992 768 3/21 1997 768 |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:56 PM Author: Amber mind-boggling clown public bath the latham numbers are still inflated because the stealth layoff people are on the website untill the end of april (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207938) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:56 PM Author: White theatre useless brakes ha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207941) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 7:06 PM Author: rusted sticky set (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207989) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 7:07 PM Author: Amber mind-boggling clown public bath lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207994) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:59 PM Author: contagious corner My guess is, while Gibson certainly hasn't done layoffs since they would update their site for that, they probably just haven't updated their site in the past 2 months. I'm sure over a 2 month period, a firm of "768" would have experienced some additions/subtractions (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207954) |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 8:11 AM Author: Laughsome Site Digit Ratio rofl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16066726) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 7:11 PM Author: Translucent base stop with this latham bashing. we are a well diversified top ten firm with growing practices in corp, finance, and derivatives. we attract top people including supreme court clerks and will continue to do so whether some piddly little laid off first year associate likes it or not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11208028) |
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Date: March 22nd, 2009 8:41 PM Author: self-absorbed jewess Latham's regulatory practices are all busy. I'm a midyear and I've been billing pace for 2009 with new work coming in. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11216639) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 7:44 PM Author: Gold toaster lay You might want to test the accuracy of NALP's data by getting headcount stats for firms that we know didn't do layoffs, like Skadden. Data in NALP, Martindale, etc. isn't always accurate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11208281) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 7:45 PM Author: Translucent base sssshhhhh. quiet you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11208287) |
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Date: March 2nd, 2010 9:54 PM Author: Jet-lagged heaven The declines continued except in DC
NY: 194 to 158
Chicago: 103 to 92
LA: 179 to 155
DC: 119 to 128
SF: 101 to 92
SV: 64 to 59
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Date: September 16th, 2010 4:49 PM Author: contagious corner update
Associate Count by office: (NALP 2008; i.e. 2/1/2008) (OP 3/21/2009) (9/16/2010) NY: 293 194 135 Chicago: 128 103 81 LA: 202 179 136 DC: 180 119 114 SF: 110 101 69 SV: 80 64 52
bad all around, but Cali offices have been pwned in the past 18 months |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 4:51 PM Author: Buck-toothed main people skinny woman OMG (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16060976) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 4:52 PM Author: chestnut stirring cumskin locus pretty standard 2 and through (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16060997) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 4:58 PM Author: contagious corner at least their leverage went from 4:1 (assoc:partners) to 2:1 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16061062) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 4:59 PM Author: chestnut stirring cumskin locus You sure there hasn't been partner cannibalization? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16061072) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 5:02 PM Author: contagious corner I'm sure they've cut partners, but a quick look at NALP suggests the number of partners has held fairly steady. If I recall the amlaw headlines, the past 2 years, Latham has still made a fair number of partners (which accounts for some of the associate loss). In any case the number and percentage of partner cuts is FAR less than that of associates
I really wonder what happened to the hundreds of associates they've cut even after early 2009 bloodbath. I'm sure a good number left voluntarily given the firm's sinking ship reputation (in fact, I've seen some listed on other V20's sites as former Lathamites) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 5:04 PM Author: chestnut stirring cumskin locus Their PPP aren't down that much tho they must've made some non-equity or something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16061134) |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 8:05 AM Author: Insecure ape indian lodge is that what your mother told you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16066719) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 4:59 PM Author: Unhinged bawdyhouse tyft (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16061067) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 5:13 PM Author: Jet-lagged heaven Yeah, that looks like a real contender for being better than GDC. New York is truly remarkable. |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 10:56 AM Author: contagious corner lol, 293->135 in 2.5 years. To be fair, since mid-2009, many have left voluntarily given the firm's rep and morale. Not sure if the c/o 2009 class has even started there yet. Wonder what being an associate there must feel like, having survived it all and walking the empty hallways (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16067037) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 11:09 PM Author: disrespectful orange tattoo office That savings will buy a lot at Tiffany's. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16064405) |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 6:22 PM Author: Honey-headed Startled Pit Nothing quite like comparing two different data sets compiled with different methodology right? Just checking the current nalp report would still show significantly reduced headcount but not nearly as drastic as what you're trying to portray.
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Date: September 17th, 2010 7:59 PM Author: Crystalline talented wagecucks the NALP data was collected on Feb. 1, 2010 and even then, probably wasn't updated well before then
Also the # of partners actually matches up well; doubt they change have different definitions of "associate" |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 5:02 PM Author: ocher adulterous house why, if i didn't know any better, i'd say latham has been reducing its associate headcount in recent years, perhaps beginning as early as 2008. does anyone else know about this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16061108) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 10:34 PM Author: Navy Den I remember doing an OC interview with Latham DC back in 2008. I'll never forget the interviewer -- he basically said I was a great candidate but that they were not hiring (did not explicitly say it, but kept saying stuff like "times are tough around here"). This was right before the layoffs hit...made me feel much better about myself. And kind of think of it, I don't remember ANYONE landing at Latham DC from my class. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16064064) |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 1:33 AM Author: Jet-lagged heaven Latham never really had a small class. They massively overhired, then they somewhat overfired - they were taking laterals while murdering first years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16065681) |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 10:54 AM Author: contagious corner In DC, their summer of 2009 (c/o 2010) class was still 32 members, the typical pre-ITE number. They did cut it to 17 or so this past summer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16067032) |