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Latham NALP 2008 associate count versus NOW
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Date: March 21st, 2009 12:11 AM Author: ocher histrionic library Associate Count by office: (NALP 2008) (NOW) (change) NY: 293 194 (-99, -34%) Chicago: 128 103 (-25, -20%) LA: 202 179 (-23, -11%) DC: 180 119 (-61, -34%) SF: 110 101 (-9, -9%) SV: 80 64 (-16, -20%)
NALP 2008 numbers are as of Feb 1, 2008, so just over 1 year ago. NOW is taken from Latham's website That's 233 associates lost across only these 6 offices (though these are the 6 largest...I think) They also lost some partners. More might be coming... |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 12:13 AM Author: carnelian vigorous kitchen dysfunction holy god dc got a new asshole torn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202099) |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 8:37 AM Author: Hairraiser skinny woman associate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16066751) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 12:13 AM Author: Citrine Locus Becky last year's nalp wouldn't include the first years right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202103) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 12:14 AM Author: ocher histrionic library yeah I guess that's right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202116) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 12:14 AM Author: Citrine Locus Becky i think NY shrank by 130, that's what i've been hearing. makes sense since 1st years wouldn't have been on nalp 08. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202125) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:29 AM Author: Hateful Adventurous Spot Useless Brakes WAIT, the "performance" layoff people are still on the website till the end of april i think, so that figure underestimates the layoff numbers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202888) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 5:25 PM Author: Medicated Tanning Salon Wow, I hope this analysis is done again in May. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207201) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 10:43 AM Author: walnut church Subject: DC office Wow, I know lots of smart people, who were on LR/top of their class and had prestigious clerkships, who chose Latham DC. I hope none of them were affected... This sucks. Latham DC used to be a "prestigious" place to work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11204482) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 4:07 PM Author: comical low-t cuckold EVERYBODY DANCE NOW (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11206700) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 4:08 PM Author: Cerise property not much dancing going on at Latham NY, sadly (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11206708) |
Date: March 21st, 2009 12:15 AM Author: Citrine Locus Becky OOOHHH DEEEEAAAR GOOOOD THE HORROR!!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202131) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:10 AM Author: lavender spectacular school dog poop Wow, thanks for this. What a bloodbath (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202696) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:28 AM Author: Hateful Adventurous Spot Useless Brakes what about all the times they DIDN'T lay people off? why don't they get credit for that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202881) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:31 AM Author: lavender spectacular school dog poop Let's focus on rancid dick taint like Latham first (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202904) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:33 AM Author: Hateful Adventurous Spot Useless Brakes maybe you should look at Latham as half full instead of half empty regarding the associate headcount. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202917) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:33 AM Author: lavender spectacular school dog poop LOL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11202922) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 10:45 AM Author: peach resort potus 177. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11204489) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 4:51 PM Author: Talented cyan coldplay fan native yeah, and what about all the time Ted Bundy wasn't murdering people (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11206994) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 3:20 AM Author: Nudist sanctuary oh my (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11203691) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 1:33 PM Author: hairless naked electric furnace ouch man (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11205408) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 4:50 PM Author: Transparent parlor The L&W death spiral scenario is falling into place.
1. Top associates with top credentials head for the door. Firms that over-fired, scaled back too drastically summer hiring, or are just doing OK ITE are still willing to hire on a very limited basis.
They realize the firm is at great danger of imploding, and that being good just isn't enough when certain years and practice groups see layoff rates above 50%.
They also see no real advancement up the hierarchy or increase in quality of work because all the lay-offs at the low end of the seniority spectrum.
They also worry about partners hording the work.
2. Top partners at core offices with transferable books start leaving in groups of 1-5, cherry picking the best associates and support staff to leave with them. Irell, Jones Day, Quinn, K&L Gates, and Keker I predict will be among the firms they leave for. Too many low-end partners, especially in corporate, to subsidize.
Most of these other firms have cultures where very wide partner disparities are tolerated (as in 20 or 30 to 1 ratios between top and bottom partner compensation.)
3. Evan a small number of partner defections sap morale and the rats start abandoning the sinking ship as best they can. |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 4:53 PM Author: lavender spectacular school dog poop How long till this plays out? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207011) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 5:08 PM Author: Transparent parlor It has already started, but I am not predicting an immediate Heller style collapse. Give them a year maybe?
I wonder if they are having any issues with very expensive office leases. They seemed to expand a lot in the ultra-expensive Manhattan market right as office rates were bubbling up to insane levels.
These contracts are normally 10-year leases and the sublet market is extremely weak. Lease issues have been known to cause partnership meltdown. Why should someone in LA with a book of boring but stable local clients be on the hook for paying for class-A Midtown office space that is empty or being sublet for a big loss each month? Why pay 6-months severance to cover corporate partner over-hiring that you never benefited from? Why should your top associates have pro bono work started by the fired associates foisted onto them?
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Date: March 21st, 2009 5:18 PM Author: lavender spectacular school dog poop Good points all.
Seems like things are not looking good |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 5:18 PM Author: Bull headed irradiated home ip partners have already left. some other partners have jumped ship too but i can't remember which groups. i think someone from appellate left for the obama administration. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207154) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 5:24 PM Author: lavender spectacular school dog poop PWN3d!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207196) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:07 PM Author: Citrine Locus Becky (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207581) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:12 PM Author: flushed provocative ladyboy I predict that Latham will break into the V3 by 2011. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207608) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:14 PM Author: Citrine Locus Becky ny to 190! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207625) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:30 PM Author: ocher histrionic library Did similar comparisons for Sidley, Mayer, Gibson, Kirkland Gibson and Kirkland have increased their headcounts at most or all offices and by a significant amount in a few offices (e.g. Kirkland in NY and Chicago) Mayer and Sidley have seen a mostly decreases(~5-10% drop in headcount overall) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:31 PM Author: Cerise property yah. i know sidley didnt lay off first years. and i don't think mayer did either. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207748) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:50 PM Author: Elite Abode Sandwich I've been keeping statistics on Gibson & Latham for the past two months. Every now and then I just do an all attorney search on their websites and record the numbers.
Here's what I have:
Date Latham Gibson
1/28 2075 768 1/29 2077 768 1/30 2075 768 2/2 2072 768 2/3 2074 768 2/9 2084 768 2/12 2096 768 2/25 2114 768 3/5 2058 768 3/12 1992 768 3/21 1997 768 |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:56 PM Author: Cerise property the latham numbers are still inflated because the stealth layoff people are on the website untill the end of april (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207938) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:56 PM Author: Heady Claret House ha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207941) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 7:06 PM Author: chartreuse geriatric idea he suggested hospital (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207989) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 7:07 PM Author: Cerise property lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207994) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 6:59 PM Author: ocher histrionic library My guess is, while Gibson certainly hasn't done layoffs since they would update their site for that, they probably just haven't updated their site in the past 2 months. I'm sure over a 2 month period, a firm of "768" would have experienced some additions/subtractions (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11207954) |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 8:11 AM Author: Godawful diverse rigpig rofl (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16066726) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 7:11 PM Author: Hateful Adventurous Spot Useless Brakes stop with this latham bashing. we are a well diversified top ten firm with growing practices in corp, finance, and derivatives. we attract top people including supreme court clerks and will continue to do so whether some piddly little laid off first year associate likes it or not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11208028) |
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Date: March 22nd, 2009 8:41 PM Author: Exciting Ruddy Box Office Boltzmann Latham's regulatory practices are all busy. I'm a midyear and I've been billing pace for 2009 with new work coming in. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11216639) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 7:44 PM Author: Fragrant saffron lay preventive strike You might want to test the accuracy of NALP's data by getting headcount stats for firms that we know didn't do layoffs, like Skadden. Data in NALP, Martindale, etc. isn't always accurate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11208281) |
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Date: March 21st, 2009 7:45 PM Author: Hateful Adventurous Spot Useless Brakes sssshhhhh. quiet you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#11208287) |
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Date: March 2nd, 2010 9:54 PM Author: brilliant flickering ratface menage The declines continued except in DC
NY: 194 to 158
Chicago: 103 to 92
LA: 179 to 155
DC: 119 to 128
SF: 101 to 92
SV: 64 to 59
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Date: September 16th, 2010 4:49 PM Author: ocher histrionic library update
Associate Count by office: (NALP 2008; i.e. 2/1/2008) (OP 3/21/2009) (9/16/2010) NY: 293 194 135 Chicago: 128 103 81 LA: 202 179 136 DC: 180 119 114 SF: 110 101 69 SV: 80 64 52
bad all around, but Cali offices have been pwned in the past 18 months |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 4:51 PM Author: burgundy 180 alpha OMG (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16060976) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 4:52 PM Author: French personal credit line chapel pretty standard 2 and through (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16060997) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 4:58 PM Author: ocher histrionic library at least their leverage went from 4:1 (assoc:partners) to 2:1 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16061062) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 4:59 PM Author: French personal credit line chapel You sure there hasn't been partner cannibalization? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16061072) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 5:02 PM Author: ocher histrionic library I'm sure they've cut partners, but a quick look at NALP suggests the number of partners has held fairly steady. If I recall the amlaw headlines, the past 2 years, Latham has still made a fair number of partners (which accounts for some of the associate loss). In any case the number and percentage of partner cuts is FAR less than that of associates
I really wonder what happened to the hundreds of associates they've cut even after early 2009 bloodbath. I'm sure a good number left voluntarily given the firm's sinking ship reputation (in fact, I've seen some listed on other V20's sites as former Lathamites) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 5:04 PM Author: French personal credit line chapel Their PPP aren't down that much tho they must've made some non-equity or something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16061134) |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 8:05 AM Author: Insanely creepy stirring hell is that what your mother told you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16066719) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 4:59 PM Author: Cobalt stead tyft (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16061067) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 5:13 PM Author: brilliant flickering ratface menage Yeah, that looks like a real contender for being better than GDC. New York is truly remarkable. |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 10:56 AM Author: ocher histrionic library lol, 293->135 in 2.5 years. To be fair, since mid-2009, many have left voluntarily given the firm's rep and morale. Not sure if the c/o 2009 class has even started there yet. Wonder what being an associate there must feel like, having survived it all and walking the empty hallways (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16067037) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 11:09 PM Author: pea-brained philosopher-king That savings will buy a lot at Tiffany's. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16064405) |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 6:22 PM Author: curious bistre theater Nothing quite like comparing two different data sets compiled with different methodology right? Just checking the current nalp report would still show significantly reduced headcount but not nearly as drastic as what you're trying to portray.
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Date: September 17th, 2010 7:59 PM Author: Marvelous parlour degenerate the NALP data was collected on Feb. 1, 2010 and even then, probably wasn't updated well before then
Also the # of partners actually matches up well; doubt they change have different definitions of "associate" |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 5:02 PM Author: big domesticated theatre queen of the night why, if i didn't know any better, i'd say latham has been reducing its associate headcount in recent years, perhaps beginning as early as 2008. does anyone else know about this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16061108) |
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Date: September 16th, 2010 10:34 PM Author: Out-of-control mentally impaired milk I remember doing an OC interview with Latham DC back in 2008. I'll never forget the interviewer -- he basically said I was a great candidate but that they were not hiring (did not explicitly say it, but kept saying stuff like "times are tough around here"). This was right before the layoffs hit...made me feel much better about myself. And kind of think of it, I don't remember ANYONE landing at Latham DC from my class. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16064064) |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 1:33 AM Author: brilliant flickering ratface menage Latham never really had a small class. They massively overhired, then they somewhat overfired - they were taking laterals while murdering first years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16065681) |
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Date: September 17th, 2010 10:54 AM Author: ocher histrionic library In DC, their summer of 2009 (c/o 2010) class was still 32 members, the typical pre-ITE number. They did cut it to 17 or so this past summer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=956694&forum_id=2#16067032) |