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Book rec for boys ?

any books you read or wish you had read in high school? look...
chartreuse pit coffee pot
  12/18/25
I would have enjoyed sword and sorcery fantasy. Poul Anderso...
Self-absorbed floppy station
  12/18/25
https://www.ebay.com/itm/276841789712? Reasonable price, ...
Costumed big state
  12/18/25
...
purple fiercely-loyal mental disorder
  12/18/25
"There's a trip to the farmers market and time for toys...
rose concupiscible filthpig stag film
  12/19/25
this is now forever in my search history I want you dead,...
rose concupiscible filthpig stag film
  12/19/25
mein kampf for late night reads that give you a good feel
Aqua bossy famous landscape painting
  12/18/25
A few offhand: -On the Shortness of Life - Seneca -Sta...
diverse white corner
  12/18/25
https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3922329&mc=32&a...
rose concupiscible filthpig stag film
  12/19/25
or have the kid wake up xmas morning to an ACTUAL bonfire of...
ocher frozen windowlicker death wish
  12/19/25
The Illustrated Man Odyssey The International Jew 1984 M...
translucent national newt
  12/18/25
Hatchet, My Side of the Mountain for starters
Stirring gold useless brakes den
  12/18/25
i think my side of the mountain was one of his summer readin...
chartreuse pit coffee pot
  12/18/25
Where the Red Fern Grows, All Quiet on the Western Front, Ce...
Stirring gold useless brakes den
  12/18/25
they did lord of the flies already. ill look up some of your...
chartreuse pit coffee pot
  12/18/25
180
Stirring gold useless brakes den
  12/18/25
The eyes and the impossible sourdough heart of samurai...
tantric space ceo
  12/18/25
rocket boys is 180
Talented Temple Boltzmann
  12/18/25
Every kid should read. It’s top of that list imo
tantric space ceo
  12/18/25
...
Talented Temple Boltzmann
  12/19/25
weird group called the "rocket boys" ran the party...
ocher frozen windowlicker death wish
  12/22/25
CR GOAT status books, but would one be "past" thos...
Flickering slap-happy resort hissy fit
  12/18/25
he’s 12/7th grade so i said high school since that&rsq...
chartreuse pit coffee pot
  12/18/25
The Swimming-Pool Library (fulano)
Puce godawful institution
  12/18/25
ty for the recs, this is helpful i just asked him what bo...
chartreuse pit coffee pot
  12/18/25
Waste of time unless he's secretly 30+ years old and has rea...
Cruel-hearted Dingle Berry Nowag
  12/18/25
seconding count of monte cristo three musketeers is also ...
pearl plaza
  12/18/25
JackTales 🤡😳
Zombie-like disgusting sandwich nursing home
  12/18/25
those are for reading out loud , clown
tantric space ceo
  12/18/25
The Boy with Pink Hair by Perez Hilton https://www.amazon...
amber stimulating kitchen sneaky criminal
  12/18/25
Quo Vadis (Sienkiewicz) We Were Soldiers Once… And...
sinister galvanic whorehouse
  12/18/25
are you seriously recommending a book on manhood written by ...
Rough-skinned Messiness
  12/18/25
I’m not even sure which author you’re talking ab...
sinister galvanic whorehouse
  12/18/25
lol
Rough-skinned Messiness
  12/18/25
he doesn't like the term gay or homo and instead prefers &qu...
cerebral pearly theatre jap
  12/21/25
Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage 18000
Talented Temple Boltzmann
  12/18/25
No young man of any worth can finish that and not have a bet...
sinister galvanic whorehouse
  12/18/25
James Bond novels Conan (only read the flemming and howard...
Sapphire Market
  12/18/25
The first Bond novel is so good. Amazing call.
diverse white corner
  12/18/25
Once I got into the first one I burned through the rest (12 ...
Sapphire Market
  12/18/25
Any chance you can recommend your top 5? I need some new boo...
diverse white corner
  12/18/25
1. Goldfinger 2. Moonraker 3. Casino Royale 4. From Russ...
Sapphire Market
  12/19/25
tyft. I loved Moonraker. Will check out Goldfinger next I th...
diverse white corner
  12/21/25
cr
Talented Temple Boltzmann
  12/18/25
Anabasis
abnormal codepig cruise ship
  12/18/25
...
Rough-skinned Messiness
  12/18/25
Flowers for Algernon
Claret gas station
  12/18/25
The Lessons of History - Will & Ariel Durant Man's Sear...
Rough-skinned Messiness
  12/18/25
a song of ice and fire. I'm not a fantasy guy and I loved it...
Cowardly thriller theater
  12/18/25
Patrick O'Byrne's Master and Commander and related books in ...
Fantasy-prone Aggressive Area Marketing Idea
  12/18/25
Hardy Boys (how old is your kid?) Zen and the Art of Motorc...
provocative gaping school
  12/18/25
> Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance lol
Rough-skinned Messiness
  12/18/25
read that, among others, for my contemporary thought class i...
chartreuse pit coffee pot
  12/18/25
zorba the greek
Talented Temple Boltzmann
  12/18/25
...
sinister galvanic whorehouse
  12/18/25
Several good recs already upthread. Some others: The Thin...
Flickering slap-happy resort hissy fit
  12/18/25
Cr. list I feel like The Things They Carried got a bit ov...
sinister galvanic whorehouse
  12/18/25
The Things They Carried is the most classic writer's favorit...
brass church
  12/18/25
...
Flickering slap-happy resort hissy fit
  12/18/25
agree with the first sentence and rec. need to exercise cau...
cerebral pearly theatre jap
  12/22/25
Watership Down A Day No Pigs Would Die 2nd Where the R...
blue bateful business firm goal in life
  12/18/25
...
histrionic ungodly ladyboy property
  12/18/25
Starship Troopers Enders Game Johnny Tremain Childhoods E...
razzle base
  12/18/25
A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES
rose concupiscible filthpig stag film
  12/19/25
Neon Bible better rec for younger kid
abnormal codepig cruise ship
  12/19/25
abridged edgar allen poe short stories
vivacious chapel factory reset button
  12/19/25
https://kommandostore.com/products/republic-of-south-africa-...
Duck-like Shimmering Liquid Oxygen
  12/26/25


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:03 PM
Author: chartreuse pit coffee pot

any books you read or wish you had read in high school? looking for something that would be motivating / tools for life genre

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519424)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:15 PM
Author: Self-absorbed floppy station

I would have enjoyed sword and sorcery fantasy. Poul Anderson (Broken Sword, Three Hearts and Three Lions) Fritz Lieber (Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser) etc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519444)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:19 PM
Author: Costumed big state

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276841789712?

Reasonable price, free shipping.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519452)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:21 PM
Author: purple fiercely-loyal mental disorder



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519458)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 12:35 AM
Author: rose concupiscible filthpig stag film

"There's a trip to the farmers market and time for toys and crayons, a bubble bath, and lots of love."

-- School Library Journal

"Will undoubtedly be scooped up by families seeking queer representation in board books."

-- Kirkus

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49521596)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 2:42 AM
Author: rose concupiscible filthpig stag film

this is now forever in my search history

I want you dead, Malk Poo

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49521719)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:21 PM
Author: Aqua bossy famous landscape painting

mein kampf for late night reads that give you a good feel

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519459)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:22 PM
Author: diverse white corner

A few offhand:

-On the Shortness of Life - Seneca

-Starship Troopers (the book is much better and more serious than the movie)

-Bonfire of the Vanities

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519460)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 12:10 AM
Author: rose concupiscible filthpig stag film

https://xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3922329&mc=32&forum_id=2#35633765

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49521571)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 9:32 AM
Author: ocher frozen windowlicker death wish

or have the kid wake up xmas morning to an ACTUAL bonfire of his vanities

toughens him up a bit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49522050)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:23 PM
Author: translucent national newt

The Illustrated Man

Odyssey

The International Jew

1984

Meditations

The Myth of Sisyphus

Hamlet

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519465)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:27 PM
Author: Stirring gold useless brakes den

Hatchet, My Side of the Mountain for starters

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519476)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:30 PM
Author: chartreuse pit coffee pot

i think my side of the mountain was one of his summer reading assignments



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519493)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:34 PM
Author: Stirring gold useless brakes den

Where the Red Fern Grows, All Quiet on the Western Front, Celestine Prophecy, Lord of the Flies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519513)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:37 PM
Author: chartreuse pit coffee pot

they did lord of the flies already. ill look up some of your other recs, ty!

he just finished peak, so hatchet is a good one

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519523)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:45 PM
Author: Stirring gold useless brakes den

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519559)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 4:01 PM
Author: tantric space ceo

The eyes and the impossible

sourdough

heart of samurai

artemis

rocket boys

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519953)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 5:13 PM
Author: Talented Temple Boltzmann

rocket boys is 180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49520282)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 10:18 PM
Author: tantric space ceo

Every kid should read. It’s top of that list imo

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49521280)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 12:34 AM
Author: Talented Temple Boltzmann



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49521595)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2025 10:54 AM
Author: ocher frozen windowlicker death wish

weird group called the "rocket boys" ran the party scene at my rural West Virginia high school

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49530601)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:54 PM
Author: Flickering slap-happy resort hissy fit

CR GOAT status books, but would one be "past" those by HS, especially later in HS?

My 7 year old just read--and really enjoyed--Hatchet.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519755)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 3:00 PM
Author: chartreuse pit coffee pot

he’s 12/7th grade so i said high school since that’s more his reading level

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519767)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:28 PM
Author: Puce godawful institution

The Swimming-Pool Library (fulano)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519483)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:29 PM
Author: chartreuse pit coffee pot

ty for the recs, this is helpful

i just asked him what book he’s reading (we’re on a flight) and its war and peace

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519489)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:24 PM
Author: Cruel-hearted Dingle Berry Nowag

Waste of time unless he's secretly 30+ years old and has read tons of other Russian lit and has a solid grounding in religion and philosophy.

Count of Monte Cristo is a goat novel that is also accessible and really exciting.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519679)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:29 PM
Author: pearl plaza

seconding count of monte cristo

three musketeers is also great and vastly superior to any adaptation

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519686)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:29 PM
Author: Zombie-like disgusting sandwich nursing home

JackTales 🤡😳

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519490)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 4:02 PM
Author: tantric space ceo

those are for reading out loud , clown



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519956)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:30 PM
Author: amber stimulating kitchen sneaky criminal

The Boy with Pink Hair by Perez Hilton

https://www.amazon.com/Boy-Pink-Hair-Perez-Hilton/dp/0451234200

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519492)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:32 PM
Author: sinister galvanic whorehouse

Quo Vadis (Sienkiewicz)

We Were Soldiers Once… And Young (Moore & Galloway)

Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage (Lansing)

The Way of Men (Donovan)



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519502)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:35 PM
Author: Rough-skinned Messiness

are you seriously recommending a book on manhood written by a homo?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519701)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:45 PM
Author: sinister galvanic whorehouse

I’m not even sure which author you’re talking about, though I’m 99.99% sure that it’s not Moore or Galloway

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519724)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 3:41 PM
Author: Rough-skinned Messiness

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519873)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2025 6:48 PM
Author: cerebral pearly theatre jap

he doesn't like the term gay or homo and instead prefers "androphile," a term he uses to describe romance and sex between masculine men

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Donovan

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49528627)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 3:46 PM
Author: Talented Temple Boltzmann

Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage 18000

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519898)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:28 PM
Author: sinister galvanic whorehouse

No young man of any worth can finish that and not have a better idea of what it means to be a man and to experience the thrill, the triumph, of surviving impossible odds. Leadership, loyalty, discipline. And then they get home and are like, fuck it, sign me up for WWI’s trenches

My middle son needed a bit of coaching on perseverance, so we read this together and then did a HARD AS FUCK mountain bike camping trip in western NC.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49520739)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:33 PM
Author: Sapphire Market

James Bond novels

Conan (only read the flemming and howard originals though)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519505)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:39 PM
Author: diverse white corner

The first Bond novel is so good. Amazing call.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519535)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:51 PM
Author: Sapphire Market

Once I got into the first one I burned through the rest (12 or so) in a summer. all were 180. I tried reading the non-flemming but its not the same. They don't write novels like that anymore.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519587)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:50 PM
Author: diverse white corner

Any chance you can recommend your top 5? I need some new books to read.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519744)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 10:06 AM
Author: Sapphire Market

1. Goldfinger

2. Moonraker

3. Casino Royale

4. From Russia With Love

5. On Her Majesty's Secret Service

the order changes based on mood but these five are in a tier above.

the rest are all solid. for example, Diamonds are Forever is my least favorite and that is still leagues better than any modern espionage novel.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49522101)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2025 6:44 PM
Author: diverse white corner

tyft. I loved Moonraker. Will check out Goldfinger next I think.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49528612)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:46 PM
Author: Talented Temple Boltzmann

cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519729)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:42 PM
Author: abnormal codepig cruise ship

Anabasis

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519542)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:48 PM
Author: Rough-skinned Messiness



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519572)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:43 PM
Author: Claret gas station

Flowers for Algernon

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519548)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:48 PM
Author: Rough-skinned Messiness

The Lessons of History - Will & Ariel Durant

Man's Search for Meaning - Viktor Frankl

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519568)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:55 PM
Author: Cowardly thriller theater

a song of ice and fire. I'm not a fantasy guy and I loved it. great series for boys who like knights, politics, and violence.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519602)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:30 PM
Author: Fantasy-prone Aggressive Area Marketing Idea

Patrick O'Byrne's Master and Commander and related books in the series

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519689)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:36 PM
Author: provocative gaping school

Hardy Boys (how old is your kid?)

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

Dune

anything recent by Lawrence Millman

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519705)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:37 PM
Author: Rough-skinned Messiness

> Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519706)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 3:01 PM
Author: chartreuse pit coffee pot

read that, among others, for my contemporary thought class in hs. book was so so but class was 180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519770)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:38 PM
Author: Talented Temple Boltzmann

zorba the greek



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519710)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:49 PM
Author: sinister galvanic whorehouse



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519736)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 2:53 PM
Author: Flickering slap-happy resort hissy fit

Several good recs already upthread. Some others:

The Things They Carried

Mark Twain--starting with Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn

1984

The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (and throw in The Hobbit)

Infinite Jest

Moby Dick

Blood Meridian

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49519751)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:30 PM
Author: sinister galvanic whorehouse

Cr. list

I feel like The Things They Carried got a bit overexposed to the hopelessly feminized librarian space for a time and was looked down upon as kind of trite. But it’s 180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49520745)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:55 PM
Author: brass church

The Things They Carried is the most classic writer's favorite. You shouldn't look down on librarian recs. This is all they do

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49520815)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 10:12 PM
Author: Flickering slap-happy resort hissy fit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49521254)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2025 11:44 AM
Author: cerebral pearly theatre jap

agree with the first sentence and rec. need to exercise caution with the second and third sentences just given that the values may not be stoic masculine warrior

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49530736)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 5:09 PM
Author: blue bateful business firm goal in life

Watership Down

A Day No Pigs Would Die

2nd Where the Red Fern Grows

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49520246)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:33 PM
Author: histrionic ungodly ladyboy property



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49520756)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 7:40 PM
Author: razzle base

Starship Troopers

Enders Game

Johnny Tremain

Childhoods End

Rama



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49520778)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 19th, 2025 12:16 AM
Author: rose concupiscible filthpig stag film

A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49521578)



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Date: December 19th, 2025 2:11 AM
Author: abnormal codepig cruise ship

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(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49521698)



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Date: December 19th, 2025 2:23 AM
Author: vivacious chapel factory reset button

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(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49521706)



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Date: December 26th, 2025 12:37 AM
Author: Duck-like Shimmering Liquid Oxygen

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(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5811707&forum_id=2.#49540099)