We've been in couples therapy and me in individual therapy for the past year. Couples therapy has largely made things worse, individual therapy is making me recognize that there are certain patterns she can't control and is unable to recognize that are resulting in nearly constant fighting that escalate extremely quickly. As a result I'm pretty avoidant.

We're reaching the point where we're both getting on board with being done. we both love each other but our communication is garbage.

No kids. I'm 6'1" (not flame) but def not 6'4". White guy in pretty good shape with a decent number of hobbies.

What can i expect dating to look like given that I'm 39, recently divorced and have absolutely zero experience on apps.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47783698)

I’m not rooting for you or giving you any advice until you stop sabotaging yourself

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47783746)

Wife is a nurse. But very type A, tough, etc. Had severely mentally ill mom and was more or less raised by her dad who is extremely codependent and has prioritized mom over his own kids. She was abused physically and emotionally as a child repeatedly by her mom.

I came from a fucked up background with an alki father and an autist mother. Very little love, no emotional stability or safety.

Therapy has been helpful for me just in that I have someone to talk to and keep me from spinning in my head. Couples therapy has been a disaster and has made things worse.

That alone leads me to believe I need to get off this train sooner rather than later. Just not looking forward to the apps hellscape.

Would like to start over by dating late 20s chicks but don't know how feasible that is without being 6'5". I make a lot of money, don't have any drinking/drug problems, have done fine with women during marriage (left wife one time for 3-4 months with smokeshow, and was propositioned by others).

But for some reason I'm thinking I'll be isolated and forever alone. Don't really have any close friends of mine as my friends were sorta squeezed out over time and I was left with "mutual" friends which are clearly going to be loyal to wife.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47783888)

We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.

We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.

We are frightened by angry people and any personal criticism.

We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.

We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.

We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.

We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.

We became addicted to excitement.

We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue."

We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).

We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.

We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47783893)

Definitely am an approval seeker, frightened by angry people. Have had a drinking problem in the past, under control now but work too much.

Guilt for standing up for myself.

Addicted to Excitement

Def confuse love and pity

Defintiely relate to stuffing feelings and judging myself extremely harshly.

And while I initially said no to the last one I'd say this is playing a major role in me staying currently.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47783936)

I'm not angry at her so much as myself for not doing this earlier but it is what it is at this stage.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47783921)

I used to have all kinds of little break the ice comments, one liners, etc. and did extremely well with women in my early - mid twenties.

Now... LJL.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47783955)

not flame

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47783959)

just earmark her a fair amount and bail and never look back

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47783975)

TCR plan as follows:

(1) Immediately following separation take a 1-week solo vacation to Eastern Europe and fuck 1 Svetlana hooker each day, and try to fuck one from Tinder each night. (Feel free to do Thailand if that's your thing).

(2) Upon return, sign up for as many sperm donor services as you can. If you're, in fact, White, tall(ish) and successful, you have a decent shot as your sperm being used.

(3) Also upon return, reach out to all relevant friends and family and tell them you're newly single and looking to get set up on dates. Also make sure to attend every single social event you can. This is your #1 angle for your future-baby-dood-incubator search.

(4) If (3) is not going well after 1 month, put effort into a solid dating app (excluding Tinder) profile. Only put any effort into girls who seem like REASONABLE (given your shitty circumstances) wife material. (All while continuing (3))

(5) After three months of (4), if you're not seriously dating anyone, feel free to download Tinder. You're permitted ONE one-night stand per month -- which must be made clear to the girl is a on-night stand. No second dates. All while continuing, and focusing on, (3-4))

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47784022)

DO NOT GET ON APPS OR YOU WILL DESTROY YOUR LIFE

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47784033)

Essentially each session for a year we'd start out with him talking about our "dance" and then we'd start in on an ex of a fight/disagreement for him. I was encouraged to express how I was feeling as opposed to me just shutting down and avoiding. I'm conflict avoidant.

Me expressing my feelings would result in immediate defensiveness from my wife and her getting pissed off and she'd start yelling. We ended 1/3 of the therapy apts with her storming off 5 mins before the end of the session and the therapist would then say "I think I'm getting a good understanding of your guys "dance"."

Final straw was last night. We started out sitting on couch together with her leaning on me, hand on my leg, everything ok. He got us started on some subject, that quickly devolved into a fight because i said i felt micromanaged. Ended with us not speaking eventually culminating in discussion about divorce afterwards.

Basically I've tried everything at this point and it doesn't feel like she's putting forth effort. I tried to be vulnerable based on encouragement from therapist (bad advice). Didn't work, have tried to simply not entertain her childlike antics when she's acting out... also doesn't work. etc etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47784187)

But if you slip back into avoidance/codependency there is no hope.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47784204)

However, more and more she's seeming to lack accountability which is more concerning...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47788932)

I don't even know how to fucking respond to this

this quack needs his license taken away holy shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47787645)

Step 2: exclusively date women in their 20s and find one who will have your children. Don’t marry her. Just try to have a family.

That’s pretty much all you can do, brother. Your clock is running. You need kids asap.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47784264)

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, disco fries right here

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47784268)

I don’t have anything to prove to anyone in this life except myself.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47784573)

But 10 years of marriage and no kids? Either he is shooting blanks or his wife is dried up or both.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47788318)

Also advise you not to target 20-somethings. You're 39 and to most women in their 20s you're already decrepit. The generational gap in outlook and cultural values between men >35 and modern women in their 20s is also much worse than it was 20 years ago.

What you want is a professional woman in her 30s who's either post first marriage or who dedicated herself to her career and is now regretting it a bit and wants to find a mate to have children and slow down a bit before it's too late - while you still bring in the fat income, naturally. But that's part of the arrangement. And it's not a bad arrangement. I would not advise on anything more than a 7 year age gap. You'll also still find women in their early 30s who've finally finished med school and residency and are looking to settle down. You want a smart woman if you want smart kids.

Women are not going to find your failed relationship scary, it's better than always having been single. Someone who was in a committed relationship for 15 years is a plus in their books. A never married/never in a relationship 39 y/o is perpetually damaged goods.

Good luck. Date widely for a year but time has a way of flying by. Find a likable woman you get along with and go for it, it's highly unlikely there's something better around the corner, especially at your age.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47784486)

---------

"What you want is a professional woman in her 30s who's either post first marriage or who dedicated herself to her career and is now regretting it a bit and wants to find a mate to have children and slow down a bit before it's too late - while you still bring in the fat income, naturally. But that's part of the arrangement. And it's not a bad arrangement. I would not advise on anything more than a 7 year age gap. You'll also still find women in their early 30s who've finally finished med school and residency and are looking to settle down. You want a smart woman if you want smart kids. "

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47787411)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47787583)

most likely, seeking.com - enjoy college/mid-20's girls at a fixed cost. this isn't that bad of a deal

otherwise, i have one classmate similar to you (owns a business that sells fire systems for buildings, makes crazy money) and he remarried to what is essentially a more polished version (no tats / piercings) of an instagram ho. there is a population of white women that prioritize marrying wealthy (not just rich) and have the looks to play in that market. this could be you if you're able to signal you have money (go to luxe charity/golf stuff, have a collection of exclusive cars, etc)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47784538)

Communication styles can be changed. Both of you, her included, need to want to work on that part. SOunds like therapy for you was just a boxing ring with a shitty ref.

I suggest going to nature for a weekend together. Take some molly or shrooms together (no alcohol) with the intent on working on your relationship together - and fucking talk and cry honestly for 4-5 hrs in a calm peaceful place. If you don't reach a better spot and some understanding after the weekend, then give it a second thought.

Both of you are stuck in toxic cycles of some sort (sounds like you've actually grown quite a lot through this shit though, still), and you need a reset. It doesn't mean divorce is absolutely necessary, but it is there if she really won't work on her shit too at the end of it.

Sucks dude. You'll be fine either way so long as you can look back and say to yourself that you did everything you absolutely could.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47787345)

I think lately I've been trying to be more assertive with boundaries and that's creating more tension and push back. It comes up in therapy and that's where she gets very reactive and upset. Makes it difficult to share what I'm thinking/feeling.

She thinks I'm not truly "in" the relationship and she's just waiting for me to leave.

I'm realizing we are extremely codependent and have mentioned as much to her and gotten no push back. The big question I guess is whether we can work our codependency together or whether the relationship is too toxic to salvage...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5546257&forum_id=2Reputation#47789569)