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Question about European feudalism.

Was this system as singularly shitty as it sounds, or have m...
Vengeful coral theatre karate
  06/14/13
just walk outside bro
green marvelous rehab
  05/29/25
(and yes, OP's country has a third world gini coefficient)
green marvelous rehab
  05/29/25
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nyuug
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Have most large-scale agricultural civilizations over the la...
cerebral silver legal warrant
  05/29/25
Yes, it was terrible, it was the first form of mass-egalitar...
Walnut appetizing athletic conference
  05/29/25
(ignores every other form of mass-agriculture that preceded ...
cerebral silver legal warrant
  05/29/25
They were better because you had different tribal clans owni...
Walnut appetizing athletic conference
  05/29/25
read the history of the early hydrological civilizations of ...
cerebral silver legal warrant
  05/29/25
Better to be a serf under a Warrior Clique (blessed by the P...
Comical spruce ape stage
  07/01/25
...
contagious rebellious lettuce
  07/13/25
...
Pearly Tattoo Really Tough Guy
  07/13/25
what part of: the peasants are revolting, don't u get?
Lilac Startled Coldplay Fan Casino
  05/29/25
cq
Shivering generalized bond hall
  05/29/25
I'd say that like slavery it probably depends on a lot on ju...
vigorous violet water buffalo skinny woman
  06/03/25
teen black death survivors were the original Boomers
Comical spruce ape stage
  07/02/25
...
Insecure Orchid Corner
  12/18/25
i wish i could have sworn fealty to an employer like a serf ...
dashing roommate
  06/08/25
Serfs had tons of time off & feast days. It wasn't as ba...
Emerald property fortuitous meteor
  07/01/25
really depended on the country, the region, and the lord re...
Pontificating Dull Indian Lodge Liquid Oxygen
  07/16/25
It worked out really well for most folks. Asia had similar s...
disrespectful dun cuckold
  11/11/25
it was a nanny state.
jade thriller orchestra pit
  11/24/25
Most societies were nomadic. Home sapiens only became a sett...
disrespectful dun cuckold
  12/08/25
actual feudalism was probably fine and shitty in parts four...
Pontificating Dull Indian Lodge Liquid Oxygen
  12/18/25
13th century English peasant: 1620 chill working hours per y...
big slate dingle berry mexican
  04/23/26
"Before capitalism, most people did not work very long ...
big slate dingle berry mexican
  04/23/26


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2013 10:27 AM
Author: Vengeful coral theatre karate

Was this system as singularly shitty as it sounds, or have most societies historically been based on similar systems?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#23393887)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 4:29 AM
Author: green marvelous rehab

just walk outside bro

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48969812)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 4:30 AM
Author: green marvelous rehab

(and yes, OP's country has a third world gini coefficient)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48969813)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 3rd, 2025 9:24 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48985020)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 8th, 2025 5:55 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48997575)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2025 9:14 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49064860)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 3rd, 2025 8:14 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49070377)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 6th, 2025 8:32 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49077411)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 8th, 2025 10:20 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49084518)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49098591)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 14th, 2025 5:12 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49101058)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 16th, 2025 3:43 AM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49105012)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 20th, 2025 8:00 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49117359)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 24th, 2025 5:37 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49128622)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 29th, 2025 11:50 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49141968)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 30th, 2025 6:59 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49143857)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 4th, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49156580)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 10th, 2025 8:35 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49172980)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:33 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49421817)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:48 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49421862)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:57 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49421881)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 11:28 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49422254)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 12th, 2025 7:15 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49424474)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 12th, 2025 9:29 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49425035)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 13th, 2025 1:21 AM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49425543)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 13th, 2025 4:52 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49427654)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 16th, 2025 8:27 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49436681)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 16th, 2025 9:03 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49436785)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 17th, 2025 6:11 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49439167)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 18th, 2025 7:01 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49441985)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 23rd, 2025 8:51 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49454945)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 12:36 AM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49455274)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 6:55 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49457596)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 9:29 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49458108)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 12:15 AM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49461550)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 4:27 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49463581)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 10:41 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49464738)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 27th, 2025 5:48 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49466319)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 28th, 2025 12:55 AM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49467160)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 2nd, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49478445)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 4th, 2025 5:54 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49484240)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 4th, 2025 9:25 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49484832)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 7th, 2025 7:20 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49492316)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 8th, 2025 12:55 AM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49493000)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 8th, 2025 8:23 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49495268)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2025 3:57 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49497250)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2025 9:55 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49500993)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 16th, 2025 9:07 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49515504)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:04 AM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49518561)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2025 8:59 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49529071)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2025 8:47 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49532458)



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Date: December 24th, 2025 12:00 AM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49536032)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2025 6:54 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49545634)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2025 7:05 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49545665)



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Date: December 29th, 2025 9:19 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49548639)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2026 8:56 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49562700)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 6th, 2026 7:39 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49567730)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2026 6:44 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49584404)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 14th, 2026 6:47 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49589879)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2026 7:47 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49604959)



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Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:08 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49838395)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:38 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49838453)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 13th, 2026 7:20 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49884309)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 19th, 2026 8:56 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49890852)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 21st, 2026 5:25 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49893306)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2026 6:16 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49900593)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2026 8:51 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49903004)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 28th, 2026 5:55 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49905466)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 3rd, 2026 5:16 PM
Author: green marvelous rehab



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49913565)



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Date: July 7th, 2026 11:56 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49985467)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 8th, 2026 7:24 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49987106)



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Date: July 9th, 2026 10:50 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49989901)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:47 AM
Author: cerebral silver legal warrant

Have most large-scale agricultural civilizations over the last 5k years relegated the vast majority of their agricultural labor force /population to a state of semi-slavery enforced by an exploitative elite with a monopoly on violence?

yes

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48969854)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:51 AM
Author: Walnut appetizing athletic conference

Yes, it was terrible, it was the first form of mass-egalitarianism. All the old Tribal Clans were abolished & people were turned into landless serfs, the only exceptions were the Elite Warlord Clans that got to rule as Lords/Kings.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48969860)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:55 AM
Author: cerebral silver legal warrant

(ignores every other form of mass-agriculture that preceded it)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48969863)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 7:47 AM
Author: Walnut appetizing athletic conference

They were better because you had different tribal clans owning different regions, serfdom was a form of quasi-slavery, only the Kings/Lords had property rights.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48969954)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 1:37 PM
Author: cerebral silver legal warrant

read the history of the early hydrological civilizations of egypt, mesopotamia, the indus and the yellow river valleys

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48971066)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2025 11:58 PM
Author: Comical spruce ape stage

Better to be a serf under a Warrior Clique (blessed by the Priestly Clique) than a humiliated cog of the Merchant Clique imho

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49065184)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 6:53 PM
Author: contagious rebellious lettuce



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49098592)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 7:03 PM
Author: Pearly Tattoo Really Tough Guy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49098608)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 8:52 AM
Author: Lilac Startled Coldplay Fan Casino

what part of: the peasants are revolting, don't u get?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48970037)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 8:54 AM
Author: Shivering generalized bond hall

cq

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48970041)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 3rd, 2025 9:32 PM
Author: vigorous violet water buffalo skinny woman

I'd say that like slavery it probably depends on a lot on just where you are, so not singularly shitty just situation dependent

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48985033)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 2nd, 2025 12:06 AM
Author: Comical spruce ape stage

teen black death survivors were the original Boomers

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49065206)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 4:10 AM
Author: Insecure Orchid Corner



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49518664)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 8th, 2025 6:07 PM
Author: dashing roommate

i wish i could have sworn fealty to an employer like a serf to a feudal lord when i was younger. would have saved me a lot of pain cycling through shitty short-term jobs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48997602)



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Date: July 1st, 2025 10:15 PM
Author: Emerald property fortuitous meteor

Serfs had tons of time off & feast days. It wasn't as bad as most people think. They didn't have running water or electricity, but neither did the rulers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49065026)



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Date: July 16th, 2025 4:01 AM
Author: Pontificating Dull Indian Lodge Liquid Oxygen

really depended on the country, the region, and the lord

removing technology from the equation it could range from far more harmonious than what we have today to utterly hellish. the general trend towards centralization of power from the early middle ages and on and the rise of the professional state theoretically ensures a general better standard of living for a subject on average, or at the very least a set "floor" for QoL, but ends up removing a lot to do with the nuances of power relations and enduring senses of community in the process

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49105022)



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Date: November 11th, 2025 8:49 PM
Author: disrespectful dun cuckold

It worked out really well for most folks. Asia had similar systems in place for thousands of years and they were stable societies

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49421865)



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Date: November 24th, 2025 10:06 PM
Author: jade thriller orchestra pit

it was a nanny state.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49458174)



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Date: December 8th, 2025 8:26 PM
Author: disrespectful dun cuckold

Most societies were nomadic. Home sapiens only became a settled species during the most recent 5% of our time on earth. There's absolutely nothing normal (or even good) about anything we do today, unless your goal is simply to put more people on the earth's surface

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49495273)



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Date: December 18th, 2025 1:07 AM
Author: Pontificating Dull Indian Lodge Liquid Oxygen

actual feudalism was probably fine and shitty in parts

foursquare feudalism otoh is a lot of fun and harmless if it's not infested with faggots

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49518563)



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Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:17 PM
Author: big slate dingle berry mexican

13th century English peasant: 1620 chill working hours per year with your bros, downtime all winter, zero "thank" emails

you: hiting 1620 billables in July while on your "working vacation" at the beach with your kids

https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49838409)



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Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:17 PM
Author: big slate dingle berry mexican

"Before capitalism, most people did not work very long hours at all. The tempo of life was slow, even leisurely; the pace of work relaxed. Our ancestors may not have been rich, but they had an abundance of leisure. When capitalism raised their incomes, it also took away their time."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49838410)