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Question about European feudalism.

Was this system as singularly shitty as it sounds, or have m...
shimmering station
  06/14/13
just walk outside bro
Beady-eyed native
  05/29/25
(and yes, OP's country has a third world gini coefficient)
Beady-eyed native
  05/29/25
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Beady-eyed native
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nyuug
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nyuug
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nyuug
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nyuug
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nyuug
  07/12/26
Nigga WTF do you know about this? Why are you so fucking obs...
,,,,.,,,,.,.,,.....,.,,.,...,,..
  07/12/26
cumskins dont make trillions of threads about asians though ...
nyuug
  07/12/26
...
nyuug
  07/13/26
Have most large-scale agricultural civilizations over the la...
Silver idea he suggested main people
  05/29/25
Yes, it was terrible, it was the first form of mass-egalitar...
Slimy Azure Kitchen Old Irish Cottage
  05/29/25
(ignores every other form of mass-agriculture that preceded ...
Silver idea he suggested main people
  05/29/25
They were better because you had different tribal clans owni...
Slimy Azure Kitchen Old Irish Cottage
  05/29/25
read the history of the early hydrological civilizations of ...
Silver idea he suggested main people
  05/29/25
Better to be a serf under a Warrior Clique (blessed by the P...
Excitant Site
  07/01/25
...
Self-absorbed Home
  07/13/25
...
Godawful jet indian lodge
  07/13/25
what part of: the peasants are revolting, don't u get?
Flesh Disgusting Scourge Upon The Earth Resort
  05/29/25
cq
Pungent locus cuckoldry
  05/29/25
I'd say that like slavery it probably depends on a lot on ju...
Lake background story
  06/03/25
teen black death survivors were the original Boomers
Excitant Site
  07/02/25
...
trip tank national
  12/18/25
i wish i could have sworn fealty to an employer like a serf ...
motley alcoholic famous landscape painting
  06/08/25
Serfs had tons of time off & feast days. It wasn't as ba...
Multi-colored ungodly haunted graveyard
  07/01/25
really depended on the country, the region, and the lord re...
Slippery violet sanctuary internal respiration
  07/16/25
It worked out really well for most folks. Asia had similar s...
Fluffy Sick Theater Stage
  11/11/25
it was a nanny state.
Razzle-dazzle foreskin
  11/24/25
Most societies were nomadic. Home sapiens only became a sett...
Fluffy Sick Theater Stage
  12/08/25
actual feudalism was probably fine and shitty in parts four...
Slippery violet sanctuary internal respiration
  12/18/25
13th century English peasant: 1620 chill working hours per y...
floppy french spot
  04/23/26
"Before capitalism, most people did not work very long ...
floppy french spot
  04/23/26


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2013 10:27 AM
Author: shimmering station

Was this system as singularly shitty as it sounds, or have most societies historically been based on similar systems?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#23393887)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 4:29 AM
Author: Beady-eyed native

just walk outside bro

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48969812)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 4:30 AM
Author: Beady-eyed native

(and yes, OP's country has a third world gini coefficient)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48969813)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 3rd, 2025 9:24 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48985020)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 8th, 2025 5:55 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48997575)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2025 9:14 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49064860)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 3rd, 2025 8:14 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49070377)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 6th, 2025 8:32 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49077411)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 8th, 2025 10:20 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49084518)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49098591)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 14th, 2025 5:12 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49101058)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 16th, 2025 3:43 AM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49105012)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 20th, 2025 8:00 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49117359)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 24th, 2025 5:37 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49128622)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 29th, 2025 11:50 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49141968)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 30th, 2025 6:59 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49143857)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 4th, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49156580)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 10th, 2025 8:35 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49172980)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:33 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49421817)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:48 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49421862)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:57 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49421881)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 11:28 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49422254)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 12th, 2025 7:15 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49424474)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 12th, 2025 9:29 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49425035)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 13th, 2025 1:21 AM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49425543)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 13th, 2025 4:52 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49427654)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 16th, 2025 8:27 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49436681)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 16th, 2025 9:03 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49436785)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 17th, 2025 6:11 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49439167)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 18th, 2025 7:01 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49441985)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 23rd, 2025 8:51 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49454945)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 12:36 AM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49455274)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 6:55 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49457596)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 9:29 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49458108)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 12:15 AM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49461550)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 4:27 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49463581)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 10:41 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49464738)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 27th, 2025 5:48 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49466319)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 28th, 2025 12:55 AM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49467160)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 2nd, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49478445)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 4th, 2025 5:54 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49484240)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 4th, 2025 9:25 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49484832)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 7th, 2025 7:20 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49492316)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 8th, 2025 12:55 AM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49493000)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 8th, 2025 8:23 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49495268)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2025 3:57 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49497250)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2025 9:55 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49500993)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 16th, 2025 9:07 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49515504)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:04 AM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49518561)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2025 8:59 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49529071)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2025 8:47 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49532458)



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Date: December 24th, 2025 12:00 AM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49536032)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2025 6:54 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49545634)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2025 7:05 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49545665)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2025 9:19 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49548639)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2026 8:56 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49562700)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 6th, 2026 7:39 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49567730)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2026 6:44 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49584404)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 14th, 2026 6:47 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49589879)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2026 7:47 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49604959)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:08 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49838395)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:38 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49838453)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 13th, 2026 7:20 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49884309)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 19th, 2026 8:56 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49890852)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 21st, 2026 5:25 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49893306)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2026 6:16 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49900593)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2026 8:51 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49903004)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 28th, 2026 5:55 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49905466)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 3rd, 2026 5:16 PM
Author: Beady-eyed native



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49913565)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2026 11:56 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49985467)



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Date: July 8th, 2026 7:24 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49987106)



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Date: July 9th, 2026 10:50 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49989901)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 12th, 2026 8:27 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49995176)



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Date: July 12th, 2026 11:04 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49995527)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 12th, 2026 11:18 PM
Author: ,,,,.,,,,.,.,,.....,.,,.,...,,..


Nigga WTF do you know about this? Why are you so fucking obsessed with whites?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49995563)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 12th, 2026 11:21 PM
Author: nyuug

cumskins dont make trillions of threads about asians though for sure

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49995567)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2026 5:50 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49997293)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:47 AM
Author: Silver idea he suggested main people

Have most large-scale agricultural civilizations over the last 5k years relegated the vast majority of their agricultural labor force /population to a state of semi-slavery enforced by an exploitative elite with a monopoly on violence?

yes

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48969854)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:51 AM
Author: Slimy Azure Kitchen Old Irish Cottage

Yes, it was terrible, it was the first form of mass-egalitarianism. All the old Tribal Clans were abolished & people were turned into landless serfs, the only exceptions were the Elite Warlord Clans that got to rule as Lords/Kings.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48969860)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:55 AM
Author: Silver idea he suggested main people

(ignores every other form of mass-agriculture that preceded it)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48969863)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 7:47 AM
Author: Slimy Azure Kitchen Old Irish Cottage

They were better because you had different tribal clans owning different regions, serfdom was a form of quasi-slavery, only the Kings/Lords had property rights.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48969954)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 1:37 PM
Author: Silver idea he suggested main people

read the history of the early hydrological civilizations of egypt, mesopotamia, the indus and the yellow river valleys

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48971066)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2025 11:58 PM
Author: Excitant Site

Better to be a serf under a Warrior Clique (blessed by the Priestly Clique) than a humiliated cog of the Merchant Clique imho

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49065184)



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Date: July 13th, 2025 6:53 PM
Author: Self-absorbed Home



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49098592)



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Date: July 13th, 2025 7:03 PM
Author: Godawful jet indian lodge



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49098608)



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Date: May 29th, 2025 8:52 AM
Author: Flesh Disgusting Scourge Upon The Earth Resort

what part of: the peasants are revolting, don't u get?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48970037)



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Date: May 29th, 2025 8:54 AM
Author: Pungent locus cuckoldry

cq

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48970041)



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Date: June 3rd, 2025 9:32 PM
Author: Lake background story

I'd say that like slavery it probably depends on a lot on just where you are, so not singularly shitty just situation dependent

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48985033)



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Date: July 2nd, 2025 12:06 AM
Author: Excitant Site

teen black death survivors were the original Boomers

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49065206)



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Date: December 18th, 2025 4:10 AM
Author: trip tank national



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49518664)



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Date: June 8th, 2025 6:07 PM
Author: motley alcoholic famous landscape painting

i wish i could have sworn fealty to an employer like a serf to a feudal lord when i was younger. would have saved me a lot of pain cycling through shitty short-term jobs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#48997602)



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Date: July 1st, 2025 10:15 PM
Author: Multi-colored ungodly haunted graveyard

Serfs had tons of time off & feast days. It wasn't as bad as most people think. They didn't have running water or electricity, but neither did the rulers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49065026)



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Date: July 16th, 2025 4:01 AM
Author: Slippery violet sanctuary internal respiration

really depended on the country, the region, and the lord

removing technology from the equation it could range from far more harmonious than what we have today to utterly hellish. the general trend towards centralization of power from the early middle ages and on and the rise of the professional state theoretically ensures a general better standard of living for a subject on average, or at the very least a set "floor" for QoL, but ends up removing a lot to do with the nuances of power relations and enduring senses of community in the process

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49105022)



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Date: November 11th, 2025 8:49 PM
Author: Fluffy Sick Theater Stage

It worked out really well for most folks. Asia had similar systems in place for thousands of years and they were stable societies

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49421865)



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Date: November 24th, 2025 10:06 PM
Author: Razzle-dazzle foreskin

it was a nanny state.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49458174)



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Date: December 8th, 2025 8:26 PM
Author: Fluffy Sick Theater Stage

Most societies were nomadic. Home sapiens only became a settled species during the most recent 5% of our time on earth. There's absolutely nothing normal (or even good) about anything we do today, unless your goal is simply to put more people on the earth's surface

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49495273)



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Date: December 18th, 2025 1:07 AM
Author: Slippery violet sanctuary internal respiration

actual feudalism was probably fine and shitty in parts

foursquare feudalism otoh is a lot of fun and harmless if it's not infested with faggots

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49518563)



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Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:17 PM
Author: floppy french spot

13th century English peasant: 1620 chill working hours per year with your bros, downtime all winter, zero "thank" emails

you: hiting 1620 billables in July while on your "working vacation" at the beach with your kids

https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49838409)



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Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:17 PM
Author: floppy french spot

"Before capitalism, most people did not work very long hours at all. The tempo of life was slow, even leisurely; the pace of work relaxed. Our ancestors may not have been rich, but they had an abundance of leisure. When capitalism raised their incomes, it also took away their time."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Reputation#49838410)