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What year do the plurality of people leave BIGLAW?
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Date: February 13th, 2012 9:42 PM Author: House-broken Purple Location (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19959354) |
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Date: February 13th, 2012 9:43 PM Author: Iridescent domesticated stage 2-3 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19959366) |
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Date: February 13th, 2012 9:45 PM Author: House-broken Purple Location which year has more refugees? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19959378) |
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Date: February 13th, 2012 9:56 PM Author: Iridescent domesticated stage 3 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19959490) |
Date: February 13th, 2012 9:51 PM Author: crawly khaki abode indirect expression I woulda said 3-4, but I'm part of THE LOST GENERATION, so I think we hang on longer (for lack of better options). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19959439) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:18 AM Author: Irate fat ankles athletic conference lol more like you're the 1% of the lost generation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19967059) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:19 AM Author: unholy stag film ape we probably also hang on a bit longer cuz they have fewer ppl to cut/stealth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19967067) |
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Date: February 13th, 2012 9:51 PM Author: Fear-inspiring cyan state 2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19959443) |
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Date: February 13th, 2012 9:52 PM Author: indigo jap Yeah, almost certainly 2 - there are still a lot left to potentially leave. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19959452) |
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Date: February 13th, 2012 9:56 PM Author: Fear-inspiring cyan state that was my reasoning too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19959487) |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 8:32 PM Author: Bull headed onyx meetinghouse selfie 2 as in between 12 and 24 months? seems early. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#27385190) |
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Date: February 13th, 2012 9:52 PM Author: aphrodisiac pearly persian lay Where do they go? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19959453) |
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Date: February 13th, 2012 9:54 PM Author: Iridescent domesticated stage many get stealthed and go to shitlaw type places or bottom V100s. others leave voluntarily to do same thinking it will better. a few clerk. a very small # get SDNY/CD Cal ausa jobs. a lot just leave law altogether. i assume most corp dudes go in house (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19959468) |
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Date: February 13th, 2012 9:53 PM Author: excitant affirmative action school I say by middle of third year a majority are gone, at least. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19959464) |
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Date: February 14th, 2012 10:59 PM Author: umber arousing mad cow disease toaster I disagree with most of these answers. Pre-2009, it was probably 2. But now I think it's at least 4. There is just no place to go (except another shitty firm). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19966349) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 4:38 PM Author: floppy potus This is the credited response. ITE, people just don't quit their jobs.
2~3 years at a law firm is not long enough for in-house, contrary to what has been said ITT.
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Date: February 24th, 2015 8:08 PM Author: Smoky ticket booth Buddy of mine was a third year at dpw, s&c, or stb and he went in house this year for a higher salary at a mid-tier bank, about 5th year pay or so. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#27384956) |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 8:37 PM Author: dull market This is simply not true if you are not picky. There are a shit ton of 100-120k inhouse jerbs doing relatively low level work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#27385229) |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 8:14 PM Author: umber arousing mad cow disease toaster lol got axed shortly after making this post while still in year 3 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#27385010) |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 8:31 PM Author: Red Fiercely-loyal Menage Old Irish Cottage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#27385180) |
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Date: February 14th, 2012 11:01 PM Author: sticky clear range sneaky criminal *reveals self as epic faggot for using a word like 'plurality' instead of 'majority'* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19966365) |
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Date: February 14th, 2012 11:39 PM Author: Fear-inspiring cyan state a majority of people don't leave in any given year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19966785) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:13 AM Author: sticky clear range sneaky criminal what? replace plurality with majority in the OP and it means the same god damn thing. The OP isnt saying, "in which individual year do a plurality of lawyers leave?" It's saying, "on the whole, what is the most common year when a lawyer might leave?" That is, when do a majority of them leave, on the whole. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19967020) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:16 AM Author: Chestnut razzle-dazzle corner sandwich nope, sorry brow. Out of 100 summer class, there might not be a "majority" year, but there might be a plurality year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19967033) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:16 AM Author: sticky clear range sneaky criminal what the fucking fuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19967036) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 11:00 AM Author: Geriatric Curious Boiling Water Pistol Not very good at understanding mathematical concepts are we? Well, at least you chose the right profession. |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 6:52 PM Author: indigo jap Class is 100: Year 1: 5 leave Year 2: 20 leave (25/100 gone) Year 3: 15 leave (40/100 gone) year 4: 12 leave (52/100 gone)
The plurality left in year 2, but the majority haven't left until year 4. |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 8:34 PM Author: Boyish Dragon Or OP could have just used the word "most"... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#27385208) |
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Date: February 14th, 2012 11:03 PM Author: godawful senate giraffe Average is probably 5-6th year if you take into account everyone. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19966390) |
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Date: February 14th, 2012 11:10 PM Author: umber arousing mad cow disease toaster You think more people leave as 6th years than 3rd years? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19966479) |
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Date: February 14th, 2012 11:38 PM Author: godawful senate giraffe At my firm that is the case. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19966780) |
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Date: February 14th, 2012 11:32 PM Author: learning disabled cerebral dingle berry Median appears to be around 3rd year in my practice group. Aside from one dude who really flamed out, they all ended up with solid (if not uniformly awesome) jobs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19966717) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 11:01 AM Author: Geriatric Curious Boiling Water Pistol DESCRIBE flamed out guy. |
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Date: February 14th, 2012 11:54 PM Author: Chestnut razzle-dazzle corner sandwich Third year is the way to go. The guys who are good, organized, who enjoy law will get decent clerkship/AUSA/boutique, etc (note that these people are still burned out, they are just competent attorneys).
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:02 AM Author: emerald disrespectful french chef Doesn't anyone make partner? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19966936) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:07 AM Author: big-titted church twinkling uncleanness lol, no. at my firm we had over 100 summer associates and fewer than 10 associates promoted to partner in one year. that's less than a 10% chance you'll make partner. filtering out the people who leave because they actually WANTED to leave, chances for partnership are probably more like 25-30% among people who want to make partner, at least at my firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19966984) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:12 AM Author: Chestnut razzle-dazzle corner sandwich life would be much better if lawyers didn't run the show man. would love to work at an incorporated law firm, run by competent managers, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19967014) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:17 AM Author: sticky clear range sneaky criminal unethical bro (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19967042) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 4:42 PM Author: Avocado trust fund Not for long bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19970294) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:20 AM Author: unholy stag film ape Doesn't this vary by biglaw firm and market? I'd imagine attrition is higher at NYC V10's (2-3 years is common) than e.g., ur regional V100 (going until the partnership decision is made is common). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19967069) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:32 AM Author: Spectacular gaping milk Yes, it varies. More by market than by Vault rank. xoxo is populated by NYC people.
At my regional BigLaw firm, average time to leave is probably year 5 or year 6. Not unusual at all for whole summer classes to still be intact after a few years, and not unusual for people who aren't even gunning for partner to stay on until years 7 or 8. |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 11:05 AM Author: ruby hunting ground Pre-ITE, 2-3 years
Post-ITE, 4-6 years.
If the market were ever to improve, there would be a huge correct, but I don't expect the market to improve any time soon (if ever). Haven't seen someone go to a decent business side job in a long, long time. |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 11:16 AM Author: Geriatric Curious Boiling Water Pistol Define decent. I just had a friend leave after two years for a job in real estate development (wasn't a real estate lawyer). No idea how much it pays. I would guess low six figures but less than first year biglaw. |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 11:06 AM Author: Dashing idiotic mad-dog skullcap deer antler My question is this: Why do biglaw bros leave after 2-3 years, if you are clearing annually well over 150K? What is going on? Job Stress? No motivation? No chance at making partner? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19968550) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 11:15 AM Author: Sickened cruise ship sex offender Some people are pushed out, some are placed in a practice area that they hate (I had a friend moved from corporate to bankruptcy, and lasted until he found a gov't job), and some people hate BigLaw.
Of the people that I can remember, the ones that left BigLaw within 2 years went down the following routes: (1) one left to a federal government agency job (specialized agency), (2) one went to clerk for a federal judge, (3) one went in-house at a really good company (person got position through connections), (4) mid-law to return to desired practice.
I am no longer in BigLaw, but you would stress out over the most stupid shit in BigLaw. I used to stress out about stuff that in hindsight was pretty trivial, but that is how it is in BigLaw. |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 11:20 AM Author: Dashing idiotic mad-dog skullcap deer antler Thanks man. Can you give an example of how a typical day is like for a big law associate (first year)? Like from 7-8 am till 10 pm on a Tuesday. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19968600) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 11:47 AM Author: Sickened cruise ship sex offender It depends on the practice area and the partners you work for. The following is what happened with me during my first year, but I worked in a highly specialized practice group with only one mid-level (note: I left out the times that the partner threw shit at the wall or yelled at his secretary):
7:45-8:00 AM--In at the office. Grab coffee, surf the web, see flood of e-mails from partner regarding current project, see that I have a few voicemails. Check the voicemails, same partner asking me about project. Partner asks that I meet with him first thing in the morning to discuss the project.
8:00-8:30 AM--Mad dash to get current status of project. Review project check list to confirm status or figure out why status does not say "complete."
8:40 AM--Partner arrives. I go in to talk about the project, and partner says he does not have time. He wants to talk about an emergency assignment.
8:40-11:30 AM--Work on emergency assignment. Need to draft and finish memorandum by 1:00 pm. Think to myself, "Why the fuck am I writing this memo? I don't even practice this area of the law. I have no idea what that fuck is happening. Fuck...I hate this shit."
11:30-12:15 PM--Waiting in line to cop dat Chipotle. Grab and go to eat at the office.
12:15-1:00 PM--Finished writing memorandum. Handed it to the partner for review. Partner mentions that the company is a ",LLC" and not "LLC". I forgot to add the comma before LLC. A few more minor errors (think along the lines of footnote alignment). Entire memorandum is marked in red because Partner likes to write in legalese. Have to use words such as "parri passu" (SP?). Think to self, "WTF? Parri Passu?"
1:00-2:15 PM--Incorporate partner's edits. Sit down again with partner to talk about assignment. More fucking edits. This time he is taking out certain legalese. I ask about the project we were supposed to meet about to discuss the status. Partner says to focus on the task at hand.
2:30-4:00 PM--Incorporate partner's edits. Do a bit more research for the assignment. Finally send it off to client. Client send's e-mail: "Please call me. I need more guidance."
4:00--4:30 PM--Talk with client about the legalese. Have to fucking figure out the meaning of Parri Passu and other latin phrases.
4:30-5:00 PM--Various e-mails from partner and client regarding that big project. Each title has some word similar to "STATUS" "UPDATE" "FINISHED?"
5:00-5:20 PM--Meet with partner regarding the giant project. Sit in the partner's office for about 20 minutes because he is on the phone and wants me to wait for him. Wait around as Partner calls other people "fucking idiots". I walk out to go take a piss because it is getting annoying listening to his rant. Walk back in, and I say "Hey ___. ready?" Partner says, "hang on." I say, "hang on to what?" Partner looks irritated (not sure he got the joke).
5:20-6:00 PM--Partner and I discuss the status of the project. Asks me about the status of various items. Review the status with the partner. Get yelled at for not talking to him earlier or last night. Mentioned that I swung by his office last night but he was gone. He says, "You have my cell number. Call me next time." Partner is overall disappointed that we are behind on the project. Partner phones in other partner involved, and other partner says she is swamped. So, the partner gives me even more assignments. We have a looming deadline. FML.
6:00-6:30 PM--Sitting at desk reading ESPN.com or hoopsworld.com wishing that I was a sports writer.
6:30-10:00 PM--Mad dash to advance on all of the project assignments. Get e-mail from partner to change the wording in various documents. Most are valid, some are stupid, and some I don't understand.
Also, get e-mail regarding the e-mail I sent to the client. Says, write "Dear ____," I put in "Hi ____." Called partner to say that client told me not to be formal because it makes him feel old. Client is about 33 years old. Partner says, "I don't care. Just write "Dear ____"
10:00-11:00 PM--go home, eat dinner, and check in on my company e-mail through remote access.
11:00 PM--see e-mail from partner asking me to meet with him in the AM.
----Next Day---
Same shit, except that I get yelled at for making the changes he requested in the project assignments. Asked where did I get certain language. Said, "I got it from the document that you gave me." He says, "Jeez...I am not sure why I gave this to you. You need to pick up stuff like this. This has no reason being there. You need to look at the entire picture." language involved bankruptcy, and I don't work in a bankruptcy group. I am thinking, "WTF? I am not a legal scholar. I am just a junior associate."
Edit: Most of the stress come from having to meet unreasonable or unattainable expectations while trying to deal with some pretty shitty attitudes. Also, expect to get ripped to shreds over minor items. I understand that you want to turn in the best work product (no spelling errors, etc.), but it becomes difficult to proofread your own work product after working on it all day. Your eyes just glaze over.
Work would be much more pleasant if the people were more chill or laid back. But, some people involved in BigLaw view their work on par with working on the Manhattan Project. |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:26 PM Author: ruby hunting ground The disingenuousness of biglaw partners is what is tiring. It's always your fault for not "picking up on something".
Just make sure the paycheck clears, bro. |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 12:29 PM Author: Dashing idiotic mad-dog skullcap deer antler Very interesting, brother.
Is this indicative of general litigation? Like partners breathing down your neck? Also, can you stay at big law as long as you want as an associate or they eventually axe you? |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 8:10 PM Author: Abnormal bateful chad base Sounds familiar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#27384972) |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 8:47 PM Author: Boyish Dragon Sounds like shit. I make maybe $30k less than you and this is my day:
9:30am: Walk into the office and sign in. Check my gmail.
10:00am: Go take my morning shit. Come back and check office email.
10:30am: Take a break.
10:45am: Conference calls. Sit and listen with the phone on mute. Drink coffee.
11:30am: Browse systems security logs.
12:00pm: Go to lunch. This includes a beer or two at a local bar in downtown Manhattan. A nice soup or burger and a friendly bartender.
1:30pm: More conference calls. Sit and listen.
2:30pm: Work on agency's intranet site. Maybe review some logs.
4:00pm: Read and reply to emails.
4:15pm: Take a break. Check on my clan castle on Clash of Clans.
4:30pm: Conduct a systems security audit. Record violations.
5:30pm: Clean up for the day. Take a piss and wash up.
6:00pm: Head home and think that for the next three days I get to work from home... |
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Date: February 25th, 2015 10:01 AM Author: Yellow reading party principal's office what do u do? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#27388531) |
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Date: June 25th, 2015 9:44 PM Author: rusted office God damn this is so spot on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#28201373) |
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Date: July 6th, 2020 11:55 AM Author: Contagious plum theatre partner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#40555167) |
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Date: July 6th, 2020 12:56 PM Author: slate crotch It turned out ok, buddy. We did pretty good after the dust settled. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#40555513) |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 11:18 AM Author: Geriatric Curious Boiling Water Pistol Being a junior attorney generally involves stressful, boring work for long hours. Almost nobody likes it, people just vary in how much they dislike it and what they do about it (e.g., suck it up and hope it gets better, quit immediately). |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 11:58 AM Author: ruby hunting ground You are going to get fired eventually. Some people prefer to leave before this happens.
I prefer to collect the paychecks until they kick me out, but that is just me. |
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Date: February 15th, 2012 11:18 AM Author: trip halford fortuitous meteor 3-4 sounds right (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#19968590) |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 8:04 PM Author: Stimulating Dead Library Lettuce (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1873471&forum_id=2#27384925) |