\
  The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
BackRefresh Options Favorite

Cow Goes Moo: Was that "better off in that instant of time" thin

g the other day a misunderstanding? I don't want to straw ma...
Gay Home
  03/01/12
...
frum temple marketing idea
  03/31/12
He was sincere bro. Austrians make that claim all the time.
mind-boggling wine genital piercing ticket booth
  03/01/12
Wow
Gay Home
  03/01/12
what's the reasoning below it?
insecure vigorous toaster trailer park
  03/01/12
They can't bring themselves to concede that unregulated trad...
mind-boggling wine genital piercing ticket booth
  03/01/12
and their idea of what is efficient is rooted in the idea of...
insecure vigorous toaster trailer park
  03/01/12
It goes a step beyond that. It's not just that individuals k...
mind-boggling wine genital piercing ticket booth
  03/02/12
What about obvious market failures like pollution?
Carmine community account
  03/02/12
Just do sue the polluters bro.
Exciting ultramarine market codepig
  03/02/12
What if there are multiple polluters and you can't show that...
grizzly appetizing base incel
  03/02/12
Just do Summers v. Tice
Exciting ultramarine market codepig
  03/02/12
tyft
Turquoise Pozpig
  06/13/13
...
free-loading angry antidepressant drug
  04/27/14
...
mind-boggling wine genital piercing ticket booth
  12/21/18
there is no such thing as market failure bro. i derived this...
confused sex offender theater stage
  03/02/12
Oh what a praexologist!
Exciting ultramarine market codepig
  03/02/12
First: Define Market Failure
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
Privatized gains, socialized costs
Carmine community account
  03/02/12
Ofcourse those exist. When you have a gov't that almost excl...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
How about like government caps of the amount of king crab pe...
Carmine community account
  03/02/12
180
transparent talented haunted graveyard patrolman
  06/17/18
tcr
Honey-headed Thriller Electric Furnace
  03/31/12
shouldve thought about that before you bought the polluter's...
razzle-dazzle erotic quadroon parlor
  06/13/13
lol, just lol @ this retard
frum temple marketing idea
  03/01/12
...
Gay Home
  03/02/12
I'm curious why you don't answer. Is it not a gaping hole in...
Gay Home
  03/02/12
I thought it wouldn't be true in the case of fraud, right? S...
Excitant Forum Twinkling Uncleanness
  03/02/12
They were better off AT THE TIME THE TRADE OCCURRED..
mind-boggling wine genital piercing ticket booth
  03/02/12
How?
Gay Home
  03/02/12
Even if they go to a rite-aid, and get an advil bottle but i...
Excitant Forum Twinkling Uncleanness
  03/02/12
Paultards claim that that just won't happen, because Rite-Ai...
mind-boggling wine genital piercing ticket booth
  03/02/12
Or they could sue rite-aid in special private courts, and ri...
Exciting ultramarine market codepig
  03/02/12
then how is rite-aid better off?
Spectacular lemon site death wish
  03/02/12
well, if youre dead you cant sue also, but yeah your family ...
razzle-dazzle erotic quadroon parlor
  06/13/13
A fairly brief critique of AE from a gmu faculty member http...
Gay Home
  03/02/12
I made the mistake of going into specifics w/r/t praxeology....
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
that's weak as hell man why don't you just say, I'm not c...
Galvanic Kitchen Messiness
  03/02/12
Do I need to repost the responses I got in the AE perspectiv...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
What was your response?
Gay Home
  03/02/12
I didn't, there were legtimately 20 responses of that exact ...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
oh so "there is no 'objectively better off'" is a ...
Spectacular lemon site death wish
  03/02/12
Can you formulate a premise where there is such a notion? We...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
so it seems strange to you to say that the person who traded...
Gay Home
  03/02/12
I don't know what "mistakenly" means in this conte...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
but that person is better off?
Gay Home
  03/02/12
The think they are. My own personal opinion does not play in...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
What if the big mac is tainted with e. coli?
Exciting ultramarine market codepig
  03/02/12
What about Objectivism? Does it share the Austrian's denial ...
Gay Home
  03/02/12
"They depend on being true regardless of what you think...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
Uh no. It may or may not be true that I have a long red bear...
Gay Home
  03/02/12
Exactly, so, if you want to make a claim regarding whether o...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
But surely you can admit that there are certainly times when...
Gay Home
  03/02/12
"But surely you can admit that there are certainly time...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
but you are aware of fraud etc. you don't think that at leas...
Gay Home
  03/02/12
Fraud is theft. Theft is not voluntary. Therefore, it does n...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
What if the party selling the defective item doesn't know it...
grizzly appetizing base incel
  03/02/12
...
Gay Home
  03/02/12
Sorry, I thought about it for 29 seconds. Would have kept at...
Gay Home
  03/02/12
you're stupid and unimaginative to boot. let's say the ...
Spectacular lemon site death wish
  03/02/12
Can you formulate a premise where there is such a notion? We...
Spectacular lemon site death wish
  03/02/12
Objectively subjectively
Carmine community account
  03/02/12
Yes, as in by vitrue of the trade ocurring we know, for what...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
If "we know" it it's not subjective.
grizzly appetizing base incel
  03/02/12
If you like apples more than oranges. I "know" you...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
Right, so we can say it's objectively true that the parities...
grizzly appetizing base incel
  03/02/12
Where two parities to a trade derive utility (measured as wi...
grizzly appetizing base incel
  03/02/12
Why don't you just pick one of the responses? Why does it ha...
Exciting ultramarine market codepig
  03/02/12
Because then the morons on this bort, like you, will assume ...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
But by refusing to answer them all you just give everyone th...
Exciting ultramarine market codepig
  03/02/12
...
grizzly appetizing base incel
  03/02/12
do you even consider the possibility that the person you're ...
Galvanic Kitchen Messiness
  03/02/12
Of course, which is why my first posts tend to clearly be wr...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
moreover, its weak as hell to post a bunch of links and then...
Galvanic Kitchen Messiness
  03/02/12
Context brother, the post I responded to was: ---------...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
"I'm not going to engage in a flame war with a dozen mo...
Turquoise Pozpig
  03/02/12
only stupid people can believe that austrian economics is al...
confused sex offender theater stage
  03/02/12
link where it is not?
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
do you ever cite anything other than the mises.org forums
cracking church building
  03/02/12
praxeology - that's the thing where you assume your conclusi...
Turquoise Pozpig
  03/02/12
...
Diverse Low-t Church
  04/27/14
...
insecure vigorous toaster trailer park
  12/21/18
>hat is beyond the scope of this bort's abilities th...
Honey-headed Thriller Electric Furnace
  03/31/12
Missed this argument. What was it?
Poppy locale people who are hurt
  03/02/12
Date: February 28th, 2012 5:29 PM Author: Cow goes Moo &q...
Exciting ultramarine market codepig
  03/02/12
I'm confused. He can't be arguing that transactions in whic...
Poppy locale people who are hurt
  03/02/12
He says he won't explain why he's right because we wouldn't ...
Exciting ultramarine market codepig
  03/02/12
He does eat 12 McDoubles for breakfast every day and is stil...
disrespectful maize boistinker hospital
  09/23/21
and of course he's above such silliness. oh xoxo small thin...
Spectacular lemon site death wish
  03/02/12
First, nobody here has perfect information, nor is there suc...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
How does it follow that since both parties think they're bet...
grizzly appetizing base incel
  03/02/12
There is no "actually" better off. In order to con...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
If there's no "actually" better off how can you cl...
grizzly appetizing base incel
  03/02/12
Because it's one if the premises he used to formulate his ar...
Turquoise Pozpig
  03/02/12
Oh. Okay. I mean no one ever has perfect information, of c...
Poppy locale people who are hurt
  03/02/12
"Oh. Okay. I mean no one ever has perfect information, ...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
so $10 is not objectively better than $1?
Spectacular lemon site death wish
  03/02/12
We don't know what else was going on in that trade. What hap...
Boyish Old Irish Cottage
  03/02/12
we do know because we made up the fucking hypothetical. no t...
Spectacular lemon site death wish
  03/02/12
this guy questions the fucking hypo jesus christ lol
narrow-minded principal's office
  06/13/13
"Yes, there is little doubt that people have been indoc...
grizzly appetizing base incel
  03/02/12
Insulin is not better than Krokodil? Life is not better t...
Gay Home
  03/02/12
getting fucked unlubed in the asshole by a big dicked nigger...
cracking church building
  03/02/12
I mean yeah, people have been "indoctrinated" to t...
Poppy locale people who are hurt
  03/02/12
he doesn't want to hear this shit. its not on mises.org read...
Honey-headed Thriller Electric Furnace
  03/31/12
hardcore austrians, a great source of circular reasoning and...
cracking church building
  03/31/12
...
frum temple marketing idea
  04/11/12
...
hairraiser station
  04/14/12
...
Khaki National Security Agency
  06/13/13
...
frum temple marketing idea
  07/14/13
...
frum temple marketing idea
  04/27/14
...
transparent talented haunted graveyard patrolman
  06/17/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 6:54 PM
Author: Gay Home

g the other day a misunderstanding? I don't want to straw man you--you seem like a very sincere guy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20100777)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2012 3:00 PM
Author: frum temple marketing idea



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20353609)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 7:14 PM
Author: mind-boggling wine genital piercing ticket booth

He was sincere bro. Austrians make that claim all the time.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20100902)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 7:17 PM
Author: Gay Home

Wow

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20100917)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 7:21 PM
Author: insecure vigorous toaster trailer park

what's the reasoning below it?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20100949)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 7:52 PM
Author: mind-boggling wine genital piercing ticket booth

They can't bring themselves to concede that unregulated trade sometimes produces inefficient outcomes, so they will claim that every voluntary exchange is "by definition" maximally efficient.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20101198)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 8:06 PM
Author: insecure vigorous toaster trailer park

and their idea of what is efficient is rooted in the idea of personal freedom, right? like the state can never know what their interests are, only the free individual acts on their own interests?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20101306)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:56 AM
Author: mind-boggling wine genital piercing ticket booth

It goes a step beyond that. It's not just that individuals know best what their interests are, but that it's impossible for outside observers to say whether those interests have been served. We just have to assume that if the exchange was voluntary and unregulated it made both parties better off, because Austrians have already decided that free trade is a magic bullet that cures all our problems and makes baby jesus sing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104639)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 1:57 PM
Author: Carmine community account

What about obvious market failures like pollution?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20105951)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:06 PM
Author: Exciting ultramarine market codepig

Just do sue the polluters bro.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106010)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:58 PM
Author: grizzly appetizing base incel

What if there are multiple polluters and you can't show that pollution from any single one of then caused your loss?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106323)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:58 PM
Author: Exciting ultramarine market codepig

Just do Summers v. Tice

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106329)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 13th, 2013 12:35 PM
Author: Turquoise Pozpig

tyft

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#23387232)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 27th, 2014 11:52 PM
Author: free-loading angry antidepressant drug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#25461644)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2018 11:13 AM
Author: mind-boggling wine genital piercing ticket booth



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#37446740)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:36 PM
Author: confused sex offender theater stage

there is no such thing as market failure bro. i derived this deductively from the fundamental axiom that there is no such things as market failure. sorry little breh

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106197)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:49 PM
Author: Exciting ultramarine market codepig

Oh what a praexologist!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106261)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:53 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

First: Define Market Failure

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106288)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:54 PM
Author: Carmine community account

Privatized gains, socialized costs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106297)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:56 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

Ofcourse those exist. When you have a gov't that almost exclusively privatizes gains to special interest groups and socializes the costs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106308)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 5:18 PM
Author: Carmine community account

How about like government caps of the amount of king crab people can catch per year? Do you expect Eywa to sue over this?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20107324)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2018 9:36 PM
Author: transparent talented haunted graveyard patrolman

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#36262833)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2012 4:27 PM
Author: Honey-headed Thriller Electric Furnace

tcr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20354222)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 13th, 2013 12:45 PM
Author: razzle-dazzle erotic quadroon parlor

shouldve thought about that before you bought the polluter's p[roduct bro. you need to know everything about everything if you want free markets to work in your favor.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#23387303)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 1st, 2012 8:04 PM
Author: frum temple marketing idea

lol, just lol @ this retard

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20101286)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:31 AM
Author: Gay Home



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104571)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:52 AM
Author: Gay Home

I'm curious why you don't answer. Is it not a gaping hole in the foundation of your belief system?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104625)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:55 AM
Author: Excitant Forum Twinkling Uncleanness

I thought it wouldn't be true in the case of fraud, right? So people saying that you got krokodil instead of advil wouldn't be better off, right?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104635)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:56 AM
Author: mind-boggling wine genital piercing ticket booth

They were better off AT THE TIME THE TRADE OCCURRED..

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104645)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:57 AM
Author: Gay Home

How?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104647)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 10:14 AM
Author: Excitant Forum Twinkling Uncleanness

Even if they go to a rite-aid, and get an advil bottle but instead it has cyanide and it kills them? All the paultards I know are all about fraud being a consumer defense against stuff like that. Is this where the orthodox austrians deviate from garden variety paultards?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104737)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 10:16 AM
Author: mind-boggling wine genital piercing ticket booth

Paultards claim that that just won't happen, because Rite-Aid would go out if business if it sold poison disguised a medicine. So, like, just don't worry about it okay?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104747)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 10:19 AM
Author: Exciting ultramarine market codepig

Or they could sue rite-aid in special private courts, and rite-aid would have to comply with the private court's judgment or else they would be shamed and ostracized in the business community.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104767)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 1:56 PM
Author: Spectacular lemon site death wish

then how is rite-aid better off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20105937)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 13th, 2013 12:47 PM
Author: razzle-dazzle erotic quadroon parlor

well, if youre dead you cant sue also, but yeah your family could slut shame rite-aid

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#23387314)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:59 AM
Author: Gay Home

A fairly brief critique of AE from a gmu faculty member http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/whyaust.htm

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104657)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 10:21 AM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

I made the mistake of going into specifics w/r/t praxeology. That is beyond the scope of this bort's abilities. People have done zero anaylsis or research or even the have vaguest notion of AE and the discussions surrounding it. It is a fools errand to try and defend something against people who do not even know what that "something" is. But in case you are really interested w/r/t the counters to the article:

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/15660/321521.aspx#321521

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/414/417807.aspx#417807

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/18726/353487.aspx#353487

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/3841/52612.aspx#52612



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104779)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:31 PM
Author: Galvanic Kitchen Messiness

that's weak as hell man

why don't you just say, I'm not changing my mind about anything no matter how persuasively you out argue me

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106158)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:43 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

Do I need to repost the responses I got in the AE perspective on trade thread?

Morons going: "HERP DERP if Tom trade $1 for Steve's $10 how is he better off?"

I have 100% no problem having a reasoned debate with a couple of people in a thread. But I am not going to engage in a flame war with a dozen morons are making posts which clearly indicate they have read zero of the relevant subject matter.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106234)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:45 PM
Author: Gay Home

What was your response?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106239)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:47 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

I didn't, there were legtimately 20 responses of that exact calibre, I am not going to get into two dozen subthread arguments with people who do not even grasp the basics.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106249)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:50 PM
Author: Spectacular lemon site death wish

oh so "there is no 'objectively better off'" is a basic given. got it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106265)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:51 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

Can you formulate a premise where there is such a notion? We can say that two people trading with each other are at that point in time objectively subjectively better off. But otherwise? rofl no.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106274)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:53 PM
Author: Gay Home

so it seems strange to you to say that the person who traded $10 for $1 mistakenly is worse off objectively?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106289)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:55 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

I don't know what "mistakenly" means in this context. None of us has perfect information or can see into the future.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106302)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:56 PM
Author: Gay Home

but that person is better off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106310)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:58 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

The think they are. My own personal opinion does not play into the assesment. Look, if someone goes and buys a greasy BigMac, are they better or worse off? The answer of course is that they are better off in their own mind. Any other scale is irrelevant.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106325)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:00 PM
Author: Exciting ultramarine market codepig

What if the big mac is tainted with e. coli?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106344)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:01 PM
Author: Gay Home

What about Objectivism? Does it share the Austrian's denial of objective truth?

Btw "objective" facts don't depend on perfect information. They depend on being true regardless of what you think is the case, naddimean?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106353)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:05 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

"They depend on being true regardless of what you think is the case, naddimean?"

And the only way they can be "true" regardless of what one thinks is if you have all the information availible.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106385)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:07 PM
Author: Gay Home

Uh no. It may or may not be true that I have a long red beard, but it's truth doesn't depend on what info we have

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106416)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:10 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

Exactly, so, if you want to make a claim regarding whether or not you objectively have a long red beard, we would need to know ALL relevant information in order to make that assesment. Hence, so long as humans do not posses the power of God, we cannot come to this objective determination with respect and the value of one item to another for trade because we cannot enter the mind of both parties.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106443)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:12 PM
Author: Gay Home

But surely you can admit that there are certainly times when people are made worse off by trading, even if you don't believe you can say for certain which times those are

And likewise, if you can't say people are worse off, shouldn't you be similarly unwilling to say they are better off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106462)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:24 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

"But surely you can admit that there are certainly times when people are made worse off by trading"

Not at all. I think getting beaten with a spiked wooden paddle and getting choked are both horrible and should be avoided. But that does not mean that when I see someone voluntarily paying a women to perform such actions I can conclude that are "worse off".

"shouldn't you be similarly unwilling to say they are better off?"

I only claim to suggest that from that persons own perspective they are better off. Nothing else is relevant.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106559)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:25 PM
Author: Gay Home

but you are aware of fraud etc. you don't think that at least once this has made someone worse off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106571)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:30 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

Fraud is theft. Theft is not voluntary. Therefore, it does not fall under my original assertion.

You would have realized this had you thought about it for 30 seconds. This is why I made the post I did above.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106607)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:32 PM
Author: grizzly appetizing base incel

What if the party selling the defective item doesn't know it's defective?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106621)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:34 PM
Author: Gay Home



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106648)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:33 PM
Author: Gay Home

Sorry, I thought about it for 29 seconds. Would have kept at it of I had known there would be a payoff.

Excluding fraud, you don't think people are sometimes mademworse off by their transactions? Don't you think it's extremely likely that this happens all the time?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106631)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:05 PM
Author: Spectacular lemon site death wish

you're stupid and unimaginative to boot.

let's say the $1 is in a blue envelope and the $10 is in a red envelope. they trade because the guy with the red envelope prefers a blue envelope and thinks there's also $10 in it. he could also buy a blue envelope for $1 if he wanted. at the instant moment of the trade, how is he not objectively worse off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106383)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:53 PM
Author: Spectacular lemon site death wish

Can you formulate a premise where there is such a notion? We can say that two people trading with each other are at that point in time objectively subjectively better off. But otherwise? rofl no.

wat

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106294)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:53 PM
Author: Carmine community account

Objectively subjectively

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106295)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:57 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

Yes, as in by vitrue of the trade ocurring we know, for whatever reason, they feel they are better off (i.e. subjectively) as a result.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106317)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:08 PM
Author: grizzly appetizing base incel

If "we know" it it's not subjective.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106424)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:32 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

If you like apples more than oranges. I "know" your subjective preference.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:ExKzmwhOwOwJ:mises.org/journals/qjae/pdf/qjae14_2_4.pdf+praxeology+subjective+value&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgvnaHXyyulgeJOO8uxBZID3g-OHykIDAELz2qGfD_yxKtUO52Xly_0Ls3I2KMb_t2YDfQYEBTRDBEs5AS-VC2vHxFcvgsGhLZsuBVDKEfNPYkktR_ompfErsUGaX2Whj7BIn4q&sig=AHIEtbTL7jzaXoXHxavIuhv6tl3_AGzOFw

Good article on subjective values

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106622)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:40 PM
Author: grizzly appetizing base incel

Right, so we can say it's objectively true that the parities are better off, because we can know objectively whether the parties valued apples more than oranges.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106680)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:35 PM
Author: grizzly appetizing base incel

Where two parities to a trade derive utility (measured as willingness to pay) from the trade that exceeds the foregone utility of not conducting the trade, they are better off.

There, that wasn't hard.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106654)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:53 PM
Author: Exciting ultramarine market codepig

Why don't you just pick one of the responses? Why does it have to be all or none?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106291)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:59 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

Because then the morons on this bort, like you, will assume I am picking the easy ones to counter and avoiding the "hard" ones. Remeber, you are the same idiot who thinks RP must be hiding something because he is does not want to release his tax returns.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106337)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:02 PM
Author: Exciting ultramarine market codepig

But by refusing to answer them all you just give everyone the impression that you're totally stumped and can't answer any of them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106363)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:43 PM
Author: grizzly appetizing base incel



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106716)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:47 PM
Author: Galvanic Kitchen Messiness

do you even consider the possibility that the person you're debating might have something to teach you?

that you might have room to learn and grow as an intellectual?

or is it always "I'm the expert, I'll prove them wrong"?



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106248)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:48 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

Of course, which is why my first posts tend to clearly be written with that perspective. The problem is when I see a 20 second response crafted by someone who clearly knows nothing of the topic. It would be like me attacking Keynesians without having read the General Theory and the various accompanying works. Even then there are numerous instances where I have engaged in a productive discussion but I cannot do it when it is x20 within the same thread.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106258)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:50 PM
Author: Galvanic Kitchen Messiness

moreover, its weak as hell to post a bunch of links and then say, go read that, then you'll understand,

if you can't explain it in plain english, then you're the one who's full of shit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106267)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:52 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

Context brother, the post I responded to was:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: March 2nd, 2012 9:59 AM

Author: painfully insecure dweeb

A fairly brief critique of AE from a gmu faculty member http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/whyaust.htm

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20104657)

If that article has already been totally refuted by others, why would I need to post my own response?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106285)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 5:12 PM
Author: Turquoise Pozpig

"I'm not going to engage in a flame war with a dozen morons are making posts which clearly indicate they have read zero of the relevant subject matter."

I see no indication you've read the GMU article. Have you read it?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20107295)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:33 PM
Author: confused sex offender theater stage

only stupid people can believe that austrian economics is all derived using "deductive logic" from fundamental axioms

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106170)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 2:44 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

link where it is not?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106236)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:07 PM
Author: cracking church building

do you ever cite anything other than the mises.org forums

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106409)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 5:09 PM
Author: Turquoise Pozpig

praxeology - that's the thing where you assume your conclusions, right?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20107278)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 27th, 2014 11:19 PM
Author: Diverse Low-t Church



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#25461450)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2018 11:33 AM
Author: insecure vigorous toaster trailer park



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#37446902)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2012 4:29 PM
Author: Honey-headed Thriller Electric Furnace

>hat is beyond the scope of this bort's abilities

these are not new ideas to the people on the board you pedantic fuck. you have been brainwashed. we are pointing that out. please kill yourself.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20354239)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:03 PM
Author: Poppy locale people who are hurt

Missed this argument. What was it?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106368)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:04 PM
Author: Exciting ultramarine market codepig

Date: February 28th, 2012 5:29 PM Author: Cow goes Moo

"in that instant of time"

Can you not fucking read?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1885751&forum_id=2#20076411)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106378)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:09 PM
Author: Poppy locale people who are hurt

I'm confused. He can't be arguing that transactions in which you have poor information about what you're getting (a bad product, a bad investment) such that, were you to know otherwise, you would not enter into that transaction, make you better off by definition whenever you enter into them, because the transaction is voluntary. That's silliness.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106427)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:11 PM
Author: Exciting ultramarine market codepig

He says he won't explain why he's right because we wouldn't understand, so we just have to take him at his word.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106449)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 23rd, 2021 6:48 AM
Author: disrespectful maize boistinker hospital

He does eat 12 McDoubles for breakfast every day and is still alive, so we should implicitly trust him

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#43163062)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:12 PM
Author: Spectacular lemon site death wish

and of course he's above such silliness. oh xoxo small thinkers!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106458)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:26 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

First, nobody here has perfect information, nor is there such a thing as "poor" information you either have perfect information or you do not. You cannot try and break it down into components.

Second, My claim is only that in the minds of both parties they feel that they themselves are enriched by the act of trade. No other conclusion can follow.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106579)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:30 PM
Author: grizzly appetizing base incel

How does it follow that since both parties think they're better off, they actually are better off?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106608)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:33 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

There is no "actually" better off. In order to conlude that you would need to have an objective scale of wellness from which to base your assesment. I look forward to seeing such a scale.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106635)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:37 PM
Author: grizzly appetizing base incel

If there's no "actually" better off how can you claim they're better off for having conducted the trade?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106662)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 5:14 PM
Author: Turquoise Pozpig

Because it's one if the premises he used to formulate his argument. It's as clear cut an example of circular reasoning as I've seen since I took the LSAT.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20107303)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:30 PM
Author: Poppy locale people who are hurt

Oh. Okay. I mean no one ever has perfect information, of course. So no one has information, then?

So what's this claim about being better off at that instant in time? By "better off at that instant in time" do you merely mean you feel better about, like, yourself and your life for at least an instant--however long that's supposed to be?

Completely tabling a discussion about whether what you've just put forward is, you know, useful or non-insane, you can see why people were a little confused by language like "better off," right? It's not like most folks, even smart ones, think "better off" inheres completely within the mind, without reference to external things. I mean, sure, some smart people do, but it's not exactly intuitive.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106610)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:39 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

"Oh. Okay. I mean no one ever has perfect information, of course. So no one has information, then? "

Nobody has perfect information, but also, you cannot say someone has "poor" information. You can only speak in relative terms (i.e. A has less info than B on product X).

"useful or non-insane, you can see why people were a little confused by language like "better off," right? It's not like most folks, even smart ones, think "better off" inheres completely within the mind, without reference to external things. I mean, sure, some smart people do, but it's not exactly intuitive."

Yes, there is little doubt that people have been indoctrinated to believe that there is an objective sense out there that determines things like "Better off". This falls within the same realm of people talking about "Greater Good", "Utility" and "What is best for other people". Same sort of nonsense stems from this inability to recognize that it is subjective and that these assertions cannot be made.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106674)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:40 PM
Author: Spectacular lemon site death wish

so $10 is not objectively better than $1?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106684)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 4:02 PM
Author: Boyish Old Irish Cottage

We don't know what else was going on in that trade. What happens if you have tax auditors looking into your wealth? What happens if you want to form a good relationship with the person? $10 is not objectively better than $1 because that does not occure in a vaccuum.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106855)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 4:04 PM
Author: Spectacular lemon site death wish

we do know because we made up the fucking hypothetical. no taxes. relationship unchanged. it happens in a vacuum. are you that dense?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106868)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 13th, 2013 12:46 PM
Author: narrow-minded principal's office

this guy questions the fucking hypo jesus christ lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#23387313)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:41 PM
Author: grizzly appetizing base incel

"Yes, there is little doubt that people have been indoctrinated to believe that there is an objective sense out there that determines things like "Better off"."

You're perpetuating the indoctrination by repeatedly asserting that both parities to a voluntary transaction must be better off.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106698)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:42 PM
Author: Gay Home

Insulin is not better than Krokodil?

Life is not better than death?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106700)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 4:13 PM
Author: cracking church building

getting fucked unlubed in the asshole by a big dicked nigger with syphilis is not better than reading a cow goes moo post?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106929)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 2nd, 2012 3:43 PM
Author: Poppy locale people who are hurt

I mean yeah, people have been "indoctrinated" to think that the worth of one's life has reference to the outside conditions of one's life in the West since at least Aristotle; whereas, on the contrary, whereas it was only with Bentham in the 18th century that anything like what you're describing got rolling. Interestingly, it is the concept of 'utility' in its original incarnation that you're describing when you describe utterly subjective good as constitutive of 'the good' per se, so your derisive comment about the very concept you advance leads me to believe you've kind of got your head up your ass about this stuff, if your silly idea didn't already lead me to that conclusion.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20106718)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2012 4:32 PM
Author: Honey-headed Thriller Electric Furnace

he doesn't want to hear this shit. its not on mises.org reading list.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20354267)



Reply Favorite

Date: March 31st, 2012 3:07 PM
Author: cracking church building

hardcore austrians, a great source of circular reasoning and being pedantic about definitions

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20353660)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 11th, 2012 11:34 PM
Author: frum temple marketing idea



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20444078)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 14th, 2012 2:54 PM
Author: hairraiser station



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#20461614)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 13th, 2013 12:32 PM
Author: Khaki National Security Agency



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#23387206)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 14th, 2013 9:27 PM
Author: frum temple marketing idea



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#23644642)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 27th, 2014 11:03 PM
Author: frum temple marketing idea



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#25461372)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2018 9:36 PM
Author: transparent talented haunted graveyard patrolman



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1887777&forum_id=2#36262826)