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The Myth of the "rich" BIGLAW lawyer
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Date: May 5th, 2012 10:43 PM
Think Again!!!!!
After just 2 years almost half of them will leave and they will mostly have 80-100K in student loans remaining.
After just 3 years half will have left BIGLAW, most the law altogether, with about 50K in student loans.
After 5 years, 80% of them will be out of BIGLAW, half out of the law altogether. Their loans will mostly be paid off. Congratulations to them... they are now back to square 1.
After 7 years, 90% will be gone, their hopes of partnership shattered and they will have a measly 100K in savings (not counting 401K).
The few that make partner will be miserable forever.
Think they have it made? Think again. |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 10:54 PM
the thing that boggles my mind are classmates of mine whose parents can afford to help them out but dont. fuck, i'd at least give my kids a 0 interest loan instead of watching them get railed by 8% interest on the unsubsidized shit. |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 12:34 AM boomer menace |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 4:17 PM |
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Date: May 7th, 2012 8:46 AM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 10:58 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 9:09 AM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 2:11 PM
How do lawyers always say this all the time without bursting into laughter? |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 2:17 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 2:21 PM |
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Date: May 7th, 2012 8:46 AM |
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Date: May 7th, 2012 2:06 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 3:49 PM |
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Date: May 7th, 2012 1:44 PM |
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Date: May 11th, 2012 1:58 PM
2nd year (20 mos in). Of my NYC biglaw class of about 25, only 4 have left. All but one left for other biglaw. |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 10:55 PM
After just 3 years half will have left BIGLAW, most the law altogether, with about 50K in student loans.
After 5 years, 80% of them will be out of BIGLAW, half out of the law altogether. Their loans will mostly be paid off. Congratulations to them... they are now back to square 1."
link? salary and career prospects on departure at each level? |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:10 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 10:30 AM |
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Date: May 7th, 2012 3:07 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 3:49 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 4:48 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 4:50 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 4:56 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 4:59 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 5:59 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 10:13 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 10:21 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 10:22 PM
My firm made 10 partners last year, and typically has only 12-15 summers. |
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Date: May 7th, 2012 8:56 AM |
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Date: May 7th, 2012 7:47 AM First 3 years: 30% First 5 years: 50% First 7 years: 70% The rest either make partner or counsel at my firm. I'd say partnership odds are around 20% of the incoming class (much higher if you manage to stick around long enough to be eligible, but which is easier said than done). |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 10:55 PM
even low-paying in house is still six figs early on with great hours |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 10:56 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 10:56 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:04 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:06 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:07 PM
I paid off 150K+ in loans in just under 3 years and two of my friends did as well. |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:10 PM
that must have taken some discipline |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:18 PM
I don't feel like I sacrificed much. In spare time, we did a lot of stuff like playing soccer with friends, riding bikes, going hiking, etc. which are not very costly. We like to cook a lot so restaurant outings were only once or twice a week tops and our social circle usually had house parties/dinner parties so no real bar/club outings.
I would say that in first year I was banking about half of my monthly post-tax paycheck ($4-4.5k+ a month). Also helped that my wife's job had good medical coverage so I just went on her plan (monthly medical coverage costs are based on income so this was way cheaper). Married filing jointly rate obviously helped.
If we chose to live in Hoboken or somewhere like that I would have saved myself another $20K or so with no city tax over that period. |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:31 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 3:53 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 4:53 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:10 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:16 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:19 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:21 PM
I don't remember exact numbers, but I had approximately 90K in private at ~3% avg and approximately 60K gov at 5% - 6.8%.
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:35 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:37 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:38 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:40 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:46 PM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:55 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 12:04 AM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 12:06 AM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 2:20 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 3:54 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 12:08 AM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 4:53 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 11:28 PM
The original post is right: biglaw sucks. But save your money. If you're not putting 50-60K a year towards loans/savings, you're doing it wrong. |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 11:31 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 11:33 PM
the other thing is that the markets are so bad their big tax free compounded rate of return isn't even beating inflation, let alone coming near what the govt is charging on student loans. |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 12:25 AM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 12:25 AM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 10:44 AM |
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Date: May 5th, 2012 11:26 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 4:12 AM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 4:30 AM
Just look at the UVA Law longitudinal study - 16 years out for the class of 1990, the mean annual salary for men was:
Large private law firm: 536,000 (30.7%) Small private Law firm: 286,000 (14.0%) Government -----------: 138,000 (16.7%) Business/financial----: 374,000 (25.3%) Other ----------------: 268,000 (13.3%)
So let's say 62% started in BigLaw - a full half were still pulling down 500K there. And even if, after a few years, they opted for 9-5 Midlaw or chill in-house, still got a cool 250K+ (and in the South, not overpriced MFH) |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 10:42 AM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 10:45 AM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 11:31 AM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 11:31 AM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 11:34 AM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 3:52 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 12:36 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 2:59 PM
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Date: May 6th, 2012 2:24 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 6:00 PM |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 10:23 PM
radioshack
joining army and going to iraq
professional barista
prostitution |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 10:24 PM
and you are a little off about how long it takes to get back to square one. probably an average of 3-4 years with full loans but less if you had some help. |
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Date: May 6th, 2012 11:43 PM |
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Date: May 7th, 2012 3:00 PM |
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Date: May 7th, 2012 9:46 AM |
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Date: May 7th, 2012 1:31 PM |
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Date: May 7th, 2012 1:54 PM
You point about living expenses existing without law school is irrelevant to total debt accumulated in law school. We're not comparing law school vs. not law school, opportunity costs, etc.
But your point about scholarships and money from summers is true.
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Date: May 11th, 2012 2:24 AM |
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Date: May 11th, 2012 10:14 AM |
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Date: May 11th, 2012 12:23 PM |
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Date: May 11th, 2012 10:53 AM
$78k per year (this does include living expenses, but if you were working a job instead of going to law school you wouldn't be incurring debt for those expenses). at $78k per year, that's $234k. now add in the interest that accumulates while you're in school and you're up to around $260k. if you want to subtract out summer money, ok, but again after living expenses you're going to max be able to put $20k to it with one summer internship. if you get a 1L summer, maybe you're down at $220k.
even in your best case scenario of $220k and someone in biglaw paying $50k per year towards loans (well above average, and about 50% of take home), you're still looking at minimum 4 years to pay it off, assuming you put all raises and bonuses towards loans as well - remember, you're still accumulating $15k to $20k in interest alone each year.
assuming you can last that long, thats 4 years of brutal hours while living off of the equivalent of $50k / year just to get back to zero. that's best case scenario. now imagine you got the job in NYC, since that's where most biglaw jobs are, and you only got one summer internship, like most people. now it's closer to 6-7 years, which you likely won't make, which means you'll get pushed out while you still have $100k of debt. save up to buy a house? lol, nope.
also, "other than at HYS you'll get some merit aid." orly? |
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Date: May 11th, 2012 5:24 PM
I don't quite follow, how did it get from 4yr to 6-7yr? |
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Date: May 11th, 2012 5:53 PM |