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Got this response regarding compensation for a Midlaw Job
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Date: June 8th, 2012 11:58 PM
"Someone with your years of experience would likely make about $180,000 base in base salary (for 1600 hours), plus any bonuses earned. To the extent that an attorney bills more than 1600 billable hours on an annual basis, the attorney is entitled to an automatic bonus for each excess hour billed. Currently, the bonus is $180 for each hour billed in excess of 1600 hours up to 1800 hours and $200 for each full hour billed in excess of 1800 hours. For example, an attorney billing 1800 hours would be entitled to an automatic bonus of $36,000 and an attorney billing 2000 hours would be entitled to an automatic bonus of $76,000, bringing the comp to around $256k without any other discretionary or origination bonuses."
Thoughts? In some ways this almost sounds too good to be true....For perspective, this year I am on pace to bill and last year I billed around 2300 hours, so if I billed the same number of hours I would make the same amount at least...but I am pretty sure no one is billing even over 2k at this place. |
Date: June 8th, 2012 11:59 PM
do you think you'd have decent partnership prospects? |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:02 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:02 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:03 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:06 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:09 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:10 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:12 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:11 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:10 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:12 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:12 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:18 AM
If they collect 2000 from me I should make around $250K all in, but I dont expect that since they are constantly giving little breaks to clients even though write offs are strongly discouraged.
I probably realize around 93% of my billing and that's higher than most firms. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:20 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:39 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 4:30 AM |
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Date: June 12th, 2012 9:34 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:08 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:10 AM
This is supposedly a real live lifestyle firm. Supposedly 1600 hours is 100% ok if that is all you want to do... |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:10 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:10 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:11 AM
see above re collections - that can be a fucking pain if you dont control the collections. MIDLAW CLIENT ARE CHEAP! |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:14 AM
At my current firm we are ridiculously busy, so 1600 hours will never happen. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 4:26 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:10 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:16 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:12 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:16 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 3:42 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 4:01 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 11:29 AM
bonus does seem high. it probably isn't hours billed....although if that is the case the email about comp was very misleading....like they think I wouldn't eventually ask for clarification |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 4:18 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 11:27 AM |
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Date: June 13th, 2012 10:06 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 11:44 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 11:53 AM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:00 PM
I went to this firm straight out of law school, and I've never doubted my decision. People on this site might define it as a boutique due to the size, but its still high end complex work. I have busy periods like anyone else, but I still manage to hit the gym hard, cook for myself, and I almost NEVER work on weekends. I don't even check my email until Monday morning most of the time.
I would go OP. $35,000-50,000 more or whatever it would be in biglaw is NOT worth it. This is an awesome time in your life to make good money because you can enjoy it. $200k+ in a big coast city can be a lot of fun if you actually have time to do stuff. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:09 PM
The main draw is that midlaw clients are usually more reasonable. They don't constantly do deals with ridiculous deadlines and overly complex structures....I am getting tired of deals where you get a 20 page term sheet and find out it has to close in 2 weeks.
I don't have expensive tastes. $200k total and 1800 hours and sane clients sounds a lot better than 2300 hours (and a constant pushback to not bill more), $300k total and insane clients. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:14 PM
however they are less sophisticated, less smart most of the time, and FUCKING CHEAP.
they make it hard to bill 2000 hours. i get a lot of "do this but dont spend more than 3 hours on this"
i billed almost 70 hours this past week, but its been my business week all year. usually i am 9:30 to 7 and no work on the weekends. its a pretty good deal but when your friends in biglaw have slow billing years and get paid 30% more for less work you get pissed. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:34 PM
I don't foresee any slow billing years any time soon, so I don't think I am going to miss out on that.
70 hours is a shit load no matter what. I think this might be even more of a lifestyle firm than where you are at.
But no work on weekend or mostly not late at night would be a huge improvement. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:38 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:47 PM
but you never work weekends? like literally never? |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:51 PM
this week was hell, i closed 2 deals and came close to closing a third. billed 12-14 each day, but that would be normal for closing one deal in biglaw.
i work more than most people. the office is a ghost town at 8 pm. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:54 PM
If I could make $180k-200k and work 8:30-6 and be able to plan weekday nights and weekends without worrying the entire time I would be in heaven. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:57 PM
i can definitely plan weekday nights. almost never have to cancel on anything, but i usually dont make plans before 8 to be safe.
i dont think showing up an hour earlier would let me leave at 6. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:02 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:56 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 12:58 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:00 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:01 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:02 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:03 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:04 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:12 PM
I spend around $12,000 on food and drink, but that includes booze and dating. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:28 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:11 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 6:47 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:03 PM
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:09 PM
I work 30-40 hours a week. NEVER over 40. I make about $140/yr.
I have too much free time.
I actually teach a class 3 days a week in the evenings.
I have 2 girlfriends.
When I hear people talk about making biglaw dough, it makes me want to earn more. But the hours and life sound life absolute shit. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:12 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:16 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:23 PM
to be fair, I don't actually plan on using the free time to just hang out though...I just have side plans that involve work also. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 2:51 PM |
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Date: June 12th, 2012 10:12 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:26 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:31 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:39 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 1:51 PM
I mostly want to know that if it is a shit show and I end up billing 2k hours then I will be relatively well compensated for it. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 2:12 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 2:40 PM
It would be really odd for them to hire if they aren't at least busy enough for me to bill 1600 hours...and with the lower billing rates I think I should be able to bring in some business myself. |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 3:06 PM |
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Date: June 9th, 2012 3:16 PM |
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Date: June 11th, 2012 12:56 PM
Starting to sound pretty good. Can't figure out what the catch is. |
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Date: June 13th, 2012 12:46 AM |
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Date: June 11th, 2012 6:12 PM |
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Date: June 11th, 2012 6:18 PM |
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Date: June 11th, 2012 6:22 PM |
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Date: June 11th, 2012 6:40 PM |
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Date: June 11th, 2012 6:43 PM |
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Date: June 13th, 2012 12:31 AM
There's still enough profit in the formula that the firm could absorb quite a bit of slow/no-pay clients. Most of the work is recurrent work for large corporate clients, so flaky billing systems notwithstanding, we generally get paid. I can see how this wouldn't be the case for other types of business. |
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Date: June 13th, 2012 12:52 AM
I am not too concerned about deal beat clients, I am concerned about partners giving clients a break at my expense. |
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Date: June 13th, 2012 9:11 AM
A lot of our stuff tends to be budgeted/capped, which is generally pretty transparent (i.e., everybody knows what the budget is). Outside of that, there isn't a huge incentive for partners to write off time, since that hurts them as well, although sometimes clients demand discounts after the fact.
As you suggest, being comped based on pure billables without any tie-in to efficiency at all would be the sweetest deal for the associate but would involve shifting almost all the financial risk to the firm, so I'd expect it to be rare, though not completely ludicrous. |
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Date: June 13th, 2012 9:35 AM |
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Date: June 13th, 2012 11:12 AM
If you've found a place that's enlightened enough to assume most of that risk, and you've kicked the tires enough to be reasonably confident it's not a sham, then consider yourself fortunate. |