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Summer associate here, need advice

V50 summer associate here. I've got a problem, which is that...
.,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.  07/25/12
shut the fuck up
fIame (retired)  07/25/12
what about this question is obnoxious... I'm just asking for...
.,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.  07/25/12
you won't succeed in lit with that sort of pace and that lev...
fIame (retired)  07/25/12
thanks
.,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.  07/25/12
you'll bill more hours than your co-workers and quickly rise...
ↂ  07/25/12
cr
A Cornell degree opening doors  07/25/12
This. Your life will suck though.
wishiwerntapostr  07/25/12
I laffed bro.
Rudolph  07/25/12
you'll probably get faster
michael yidd-killchrist  07/25/12
the tech sector is starting to slow down, international mark...
Non sequitur  07/25/12
Take notes. Cut and paste from cases and slowly form an o...
Noobling  07/25/12
...
,...,,.,.,,, , , .. ,,.,.,,...,,.,.,,,..,.,  07/25/12
given what I said in the OP, could I still succeed in corpor...
.,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.  07/25/12
http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=971140&for...
.,.,.,,.,.,.,,..,..,,,...,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.  07/25/12
This is ok. Do not worry about not completing a large volume...
...,,.,..,,..........,,,.,.,....,,....,.........,  07/25/12
long hours are how we get paid. i'm inefficient and dumb as...
A Cornell degree opening doors  07/25/12
you can't get away with this in midlaw because they'll just ...
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  07/25/12
i get being slow but 25-30 hours on a 5 page memo is crazy. ...
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  07/25/12
I don't think this is that unusual for an SA. Basically l...
.:;..;;.;...,,..,.::.;.;....;:;,,.;;:..;...  07/25/12
agreed. i was just barely faster than this at first. my ai...
,.,.,.,...,.,.,,.,.,,,.,.,..,.,.,,,,.,.,...,.,.,..  07/25/12
formatting also might be a thing. i do 12pt single. If OP is...
.:;..;;.;...,,..,.::.;.;....;:;,,.;;:..;...  07/25/12
you do 12? I did 12 and then i clerked for a 90 year old br...
,.,.,.,...,.,.,,.,.,,,.,.,..,.,.,,,,.,.,...,.,.,..  07/25/12
i have never done 14. only 12 or 11
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  07/25/12
OP here. 12 pt single.
.,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.  07/25/12
idk, i am still learning new areas of law all the time and i...
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  07/25/12
OP here. Yeah, what the other dood said is pretty accurate--...
.,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.  07/25/12
do you mean single-space? i could understand 6 pages single ...
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  07/25/12
Yeah, single.
.,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.  07/25/12
why do u do them single spaced
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  07/25/12
firm format elaborate on the easy way?
.,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.  07/25/12
oh i c just write a few words on the front page of the ca...
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  07/25/12
ty
.,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.  07/25/12
one thing i've noticed is that there's very few things that ...
,.,.,.,...,.,.,,.,.,,,.,.,..,.,.,,,,.,.,...,.,.,..  07/25/12
also, you'll get faster. no one expects you to be efficient...
,.,.,.,...,.,.,,.,.,,,.,.,..,.,.,,,,.,.,...,.,.,..  07/25/12
When I finish reading a case, I put in bullet format the use...
Circuit City Special  07/25/12
ty
.,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.  07/25/12
lol at reading an entire case. If someone hasn't done a note...
steve  07/25/12
i like to look at the original source that said i rarely ...
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  07/25/12
I'm a 5th year and a partner asked me the other day how it t...
Rudolph  07/25/12
is this a big law thing. the partners i work for are really ...
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  07/25/12
They are only pretending because you are a summer.
Rudolph  07/25/12
i'm not a summer
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  07/25/12
Oh, are you at a midlaw firm or something where you have to ...
Rudolph  07/26/12
yeah lol. my hours get cut too
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  07/26/12
The thing that's going to fuck you isn't your speed/ineffici...
....:;:......;;.,,...............,.  07/26/12
I have a shiTTYy memory, but I avoid the update situation by...
Rudolph  07/26/12
Wouldn't worry about this in biglaw (boutiques and midlaw ar...
.,.,....,.,.,.,:,.,:,...,:::,,...,:,.,.:...,:.::,.  07/26/12
yeah if it's not biglaw, the partners will just cut your hou...
'''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.  07/26/12
you're going to fail the bar and none of the above are relev...
.,;'.,;'.,.;'.,.;'.,,.;,;.;,.''';[;.,,'  07/26/12


Poast new message in this thread



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 5:50 PM
Author: .,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.

V50 summer associate here. I've got a problem, which is that I'm fucking slow. A simple 6 page memo might take me 25-30 hours. Part of the problem is that I think my memory is poor; e.g., I'll read one case, forget most of it, read another case, and then be like, "oh, damn, I think that other case might have said something about that too." And then I'll have to re-read the earlier case. And I'm also just a slow writer.

Thing is, my work product is good--I've gotten good feedback on the few assignments I've done; one senior associate called a 5-page memo I did "fantastic." But I feel like I've done way fewer assignments than the other summers and I'm not sure I'll ever have the speed/turnaround ability to do succeed in lit.

Thoughts/advice?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174181)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 5:55 PM
Author: fIame (retired)

shut the fuck up

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174212)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 5:55 PM
Author: .,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.

what about this question is obnoxious... I'm just asking for perspective from bros in the know

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174217)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 6:06 PM
Author: fIame (retired)

you won't succeed in lit with that sort of pace and that level of shit information management. lit clients will squeeze your billable hours until you are commercially inviable. Enjoy $36k this summer and find a new career.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174318)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 6:16 PM
Author: .,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.

thanks

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174412)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 9:48 PM
Author: ↂ

you'll bill more hours than your co-workers and quickly rise to the top. Welcome to big law, where inefficiency is rewarded!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21177110)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 9:54 PM
Author: A Cornell degree opening doors

cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21177207)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:30 PM
Author: wishiwerntapostr

This. Your life will suck though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178690)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:51 PM
Author: Rudolph

I laffed bro.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178953)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:29 PM
Author: michael yidd-killchrist

you'll probably get faster

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178689)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 5:52 PM
Author: Non sequitur ( )

the tech sector is starting to slow down, international markets are about to burst, and shadow inventory is about to lifepwn housing. you are fucked. get ready to get no offered and or laid off 3 months in

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174191)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 5:55 PM
Author: Noobling

Take notes.

Cut and paste from cases and slowly form an outline. Write down questions that occur to you for follow up later.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174215)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 6:21 PM
Author: ,...,,.,.,,, , , .. ,,.,.,,...,,.,.,,,..,.,



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174457)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 6:49 PM
Author: .,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.

given what I said in the OP, could I still succeed in corporate?

If not, I need to abandon law b/c I'm BigLaw or bust.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21174672)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 9:51 PM
Author: .,.,.,,.,.,.,,..,..,,,...,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.

http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=971140&forum_id=2Reputation#11371695

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21177152)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 9:52 PM
Author: ...,,.,..,,..........,,,.,.,....,,....,.........,

This is ok. Do not worry about not completing a large volume of assignments for now. Just do the best job you possibly can on everything. However if you actually get out of work then try to seek some out but don't get too much. Try not to turn down any work, but if you absolutely can't get everything done by deadlines it is of course best to raise it in advance rather than blow through a deadline.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21177172)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 9:53 PM
Author: A Cornell degree opening doors

long hours are how we get paid. i'm inefficient and dumb as fuck and NOBODY has said shit about it to me in three years of biglaw.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21177196)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:32 PM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

you can't get away with this in midlaw because they'll just cut your hours

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178722)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:28 PM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

i get being slow but 25-30 hours on a 5 page memo is crazy. do you find the questions difficult or what?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178669)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:34 PM
Author: .:;..;;.;...,,..,.::.;.;....;:;,,.;;:..;...

I don't think this is that unusual for an SA.

Basically learning entirely new areas of law while also learning to use westlaw/lexis efficiently, way over researching things, quadruple-checking bluebooking, etc. and also doing legal writing for the first time.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178742)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:36 PM
Author: ,.,.,.,...,.,.,,.,.,,,.,.,..,.,.,,,,.,.,...,.,.,..

agreed. i was just barely faster than this at first. my aim now is 1 hour per 14 size font double-spaced page. don't know/care how this stacks up.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178764)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:37 PM
Author: .:;..;;.;...,,..,.::.;.;....;:;,,.;;:..;...

formatting also might be a thing. i do 12pt single. If OP is taking that long at 14 double...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178786)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:39 PM
Author: ,.,.,.,...,.,.,,.,.,,,.,.,..,.,.,,,,.,.,...,.,.,..

you do 12? I did 12 and then i clerked for a 90 year old bro who couldnt read 12 point. I got used to 14 point and now i think 12 point is unreadable.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178793)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:39 PM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

i have never done 14. only 12 or 11

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178804)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:41 PM
Author: .,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.

OP here. 12 pt single.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178813)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:36 PM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

idk, i am still learning new areas of law all the time and i can't imagine spending 25-30 hours on a short memo. unless you're told to do this. but doing it out of necessity, i don't get

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178769)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:40 PM
Author: .,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.

OP here. Yeah, what the other dood said is pretty accurate--unfamiliarity w/ Westlaw, Bluebooking, needing to double-check everything, etc.

Even then, I think I'm slower than most. I can't bullshit for the life of me, so if I'm not 100% sure that something I'm writing is correct AND phrased exactly right, I won't put it down. I'm also probably a bit less intelligent than others but can usually compensate with more cogent writing.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178805)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:41 PM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

do you mean single-space? i could understand 6 pages single spaced taking that long

there is an easy way not to forget what cases are about anyways

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178811)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:41 PM
Author: .,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.

Yeah, single.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178817)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:41 PM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

why do u do them single spaced

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178820)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:43 PM
Author: .,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.

firm format

elaborate on the easy way?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178828)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:45 PM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

oh i c

just write a few words on the front page of the case to help you remember

for cases you don't print out, do copy with reference for the different points you want to make and place them in the different sections you want them in

and if your problem is just obsessively looking on westlaw, at a certain point you have to stop and just start writing. once you start writing it's easier to go back in to look for cases to fill in certain specific points

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178854)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:45 PM
Author: .,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.

ty

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178866)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:32 PM
Author: ,.,.,.,...,.,.,,.,.,,,.,.,..,.,.,,,,.,.,...,.,.,..

one thing i've noticed is that there's very few things that haven't already been written -- especially if you're in a big state or are working on federal work. Just find a case on point, find the brief/motion thats aligned with your interests, and copy and paste. bill 4.2 hours then 3.1 hours then 6.3 hours. label it as researching and writing x portion of y assignment. check xo. call a friend.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178729)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:34 PM
Author: ,.,.,.,...,.,.,,.,.,,,.,.,..,.,.,,,,.,.,...,.,.,..

also, you'll get faster. no one expects you to be efficient. they expect you to work hard and turn in good work and work on the efficiency part.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178740)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:40 PM
Author: Circuit City Special (Flash Mob/Forty-Year-Old Soccer Mom (Never Not Real Talk))

When I finish reading a case, I put in bullet format the usefulness of the case. Example:

(1) Addresses the issue of attorney-client privilege and crime-fraud exception;

(2) _____

This helps me to quickly reference materials while writing and avoid having to figure out why I printed a certain case.

Also, if you are facing multiple issues. Be sure to organize your cases according to the issues. You don't want to have just one pile containing all of your cases. Create one pile for issue X, issue Y, etc. If you have a case that overlaps, just print out the first page and put "found in other pile" on the first page reproduction. I only use this if I have a huge ass fucking memo.

If you have an outline, be sure to start placing the case name as support for that particular bullet.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178810)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:42 PM
Author: .,.,,..,.,,.,.,:,,:,...,:,:,...,:,.,.:...:.,:.::,.

ty

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178824)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:48 PM
Author: steve

lol at reading an entire case. If someone hasn't done a note in a bar journal, a summary with analysis in a blog or a law review article on it for you why are you citing it? These days there are so many blogs and so many asshat partners who do nothing more than read every appellate case in their practice area and post about it that you should NEVER have to read a whole case yourself.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178910)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:49 PM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

i like to look at the original source

that said i rarely read the whole case. i skip to the relevant parts

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178935)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:53 PM
Author: Rudolph

I'm a 5th year and a partner asked me the other day how it took me 80 hours to write a fairly simple MSJ. I responded, "because the client pays their bills." Aw man, did we both laugh and laugh.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21178987)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:55 PM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

is this a big law thing. the partners i work for are really mindful of being efficient for the client

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179014)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:58 PM
Author: Rudolph

They are only pretending because you are a summer.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179050)



Reply

Date: July 25th, 2012 11:58 PM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

i'm not a summer

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179058)



Reply

Date: July 26th, 2012 12:00 AM
Author: Rudolph

Oh, are you at a midlaw firm or something where you have to be cost competitive?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179094)



Reply

Date: July 26th, 2012 12:01 AM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

yeah lol. my hours get cut too

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179115)



Reply

Date: July 26th, 2012 12:00 AM
Author: ....:;:......;;.,,...............,.

The thing that's going to fuck you isn't your speed/inefficiency, it's that you can't recall shit. I've found that people always want updates. You need to organize your work in a way such that you can answer questions from the more senior attorneys when they call you out of the blue and ask something about what you're working on. Other than that you'll be ok.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179098)



Reply

Date: July 26th, 2012 12:02 AM
Author: Rudolph

I have a shiTTYy memory, but I avoid the update situation by using email to give unsolicited updates.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179143)



Reply

Date: July 26th, 2012 12:05 AM
Author: .,.,....,.,.,.,:,.,:,...,:::,,...,:,.,.:...,:.::,.

Wouldn't worry about this in biglaw (boutiques and midlaw are a different story). It takes some repetition to figure out how to achieve the right balance between understanding/accuracy and speed. It also takes some time to reduce paranoia from a level at which you proofread emails to partners/clients 20 times to something slightly more manageable.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179177)



Reply

Date: July 26th, 2012 12:06 AM
Author: '''.....'''...'...'.'..'.'.'.'.'.

yeah if it's not biglaw, the partners will just cut your hours, lol and will expect you to make it up

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179188)



Reply

Date: July 26th, 2012 12:07 AM
Author: .,;'.,;'.,.;'.,.;'.,,.;,;.;,.''';[;.,,'

you're going to fail the bar and none of the above are relevant

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2004666&forum_id=2#21179202)