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Capitalism Inevitably Leads to Greater Concentration of Wealth
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:01 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:05 PM
(and as always, i love the ssm troll move here; brilliant stuff) |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:10 PM
i dont really think the SSM shtick is "brilliant". got old pretty quick |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:13 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:03 PM
Are you going to appeal to moral duty? (LOL YEAH RIGHT!) |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:07 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:08 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:09 PM
No, they want to make mad money, more money than the other guy, so they can DOMINATE the club scene and hit on all the dumb sluts with the big butts. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:12 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:18 PM
Yeah, unequal wealth distribution does tend to result from this, but I guess them's the breaks. Unless you can find some other way of motivating a fallen mankind, I just don't see any alternative to capitalism. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:21 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:21 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:23 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:26 PM
Fwiw, I think Marx was right about a lot of things, especially the effect that capitalism has on the proles, but I just don't see any workable alternative to capitalism. No matter what criticisms you can come up against capitalism, they can always just counter that at least capitalism works, whereas all attempts at Communism or radical socialism have thus far failed. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:27 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:28 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:59 PM
1) you have a system in which the proles are completely dependent upon the capitalists for their livelihoods, yet the capitalists only create jobs incidentally. Their primary motivation is profit, and if they can generate profit by cutting jobs or sending them overseas, they will do that.
2) Because they are only interested in profit, they don't care much about waste or the environment. Worse yet, because the capitalists are in competition with one another, they can't really afford to do anything which might hamper their ability to compete, e.g., reduce efficiency to protect environment. So it would fall to the government to do something, yet in practice they are pro-business and don't want to do anything which might cut even more jobs. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:39 PM
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:43 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:03 PM
what really got me was galbraith's point about how efficient production is not really a primary goal of society in light of the fact that we now have to manufacture demand. this calls into question so many fundamental principles of capitalism.
i also remember reading something about how ricardo, malthus, marx and some other guy all convincingly argued how capitalism was inevitably destined to fail. i'm not scholarly enough to recount each of their arguments. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:27 PM
Thoughts on Robert Nozick's seminal work? |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:44 PM
i think the key issue here is whether "rational" distribution of goods = "fair" distribution of goods. it's as much a scientific question as it is a moral one. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:01 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:26 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:45 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:46 PM |
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Date: August 15th, 2012 10:30 AM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:03 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:06 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:07 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:09 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:09 PM
It's not an aberration when it happens EVERY SINGLE TIME. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:12 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:00 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:10 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:13 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:15 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:18 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:19 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:27 PM
1) Humans are inherently different, this means there will ALWAYS be stratification. It is funny however that the system Marx advocates, socialism, exacerbates this stratification by placing the bureaucrats far above anyone else.
2) Marx claims that the worker can only express labour in the market. This again is totally false. Every entrepreneur who started with $50 in the bank is a counter example.
It is also irrelevant. |
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Date: September 15th, 2012 12:52 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:28 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:15 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:16 PM
Second, markets do not take into consideration the environmental degradation that will arise from purportedly rational economic decisions entirely predicated on profit maximization., |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:20 PM
Give me a distortion that:
a) Is not a result of gov't intereference b) Can be shown to be handled by your socialist model more effectively
"Second, markets do not take into consideration the environmental degradation that will arise from purportedly rational economic decisions entirely predicated on profit maximization.,"
Wrong. Markets do not take into consideration environmental degradation when the GOVERNMENT does not allow legal action on the part of people being polluted. Up until the 1840s if the nearby coal factory was producing pollution that was damaging yourself and your property you could go to the courts and get an injunction on the plant. The gov't however decided that it was in the interest of the "greater good" to not let measly personal property get in the way of industrial development and began to quash these complaints. Pollution is ultimately an invasion of property, if you apply property rights consistently you do have those polluting paying the price for their actions. It is no coincidence that in those times and places where property rights are least defended, namely the USSR as an example, the amount of environmental damage was MUCH higher.
You are dumb and never learn, but for those others reading, if you want to see a good summary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMxgYY_q-AI |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:26 PM
Prices should reflect the marginal cost of the products/services being tendered. Agreed? Well, here is the market distortion. Often times, due to dumping, intellectual property thefts, and other forms of economic distortions waged by capitalist economies (read Wallerstein's theory for more), prices fail to reflect adequate marginal cost, and in fact, the profits elicited become a mechanism for the rich, core countries to dominate the periphery countries that do not have stable democratic institutions.
Third, Public policies (investments, taxes, subsidies, and regulations) should not favor one good or group over others--yet capitalist economies provide the greatest help to the rich and elitist sectors of society to distort real economic performance. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:30 PM
WHAT THE FUCK? So if I spend $100 worth of labour digging mud out of my backyard, putting it in a dump truck and dumping it on your front lawn, that is "worth" $100? Get your fucking illegitimate LTV out of this thread you idiot. Value (i.e what leads to prices) are SUBJECTIVE and having NOTHING to do with the cost of production.
"Third, Public policies (investments, taxes, subsidies, and regulations) should not favor one good or group over others--yet capitalist economies provide the greatest help to the rich and elitist sectors of society to distort real economic performance. "
The only thing I agree with you, but if the gov't has already show itself to be easily hijacked by the elite when it is given power to regulate and invest and control the economy, how is giving it MORE control as you have in a socialist state going to change anything except make it worse? |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:34 PM
So capitalism cannot rectify these inevitable human natural distortions. They simply perpetuate them by reinforcing the wealthy status of others. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:41 PM
1) SSM creates thread making retarded claims 2) I destroy any feeble arguments SSM puts forward 3) SSM reverts back to either his original conclusion with no substantiation, a copy and paste job or something non-sensical.
You are now appealing to this notion of "happiness" which is both logically and empirically impossible to assess as though it supports your stance. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:44 PM |
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Date: October 20th, 2012 1:55 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:27 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:29 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:34 PM
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=2010356&mc=4&forum_id=2 |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:34 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:36 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:37 PM
So capitalism cannot rectify these inevitable human natural distortions. They simply perpetuate them by reinforcing the wealthy status of others. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:38 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:50 PM
Jesus titty fucking christ I hate commies. I hate them as much as I hate religious fundamentalists and largely for the same reasons: they are fucking stubbornly retarded over issues that were settled a long time ago. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:51 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 2:52 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:02 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:04 PM
Any argument that bases itself on something as subjective as "happiness" is utter flame |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:04 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:05 PM
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:10 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:11 PM
The fact that you can even pose this ridiculous line of questioning, free from being carted off to a gulag already makes you truly wealthy compared to your existence under a communist regime.
My father was at a bar. His friend made a joke about Stalin. They were both immediately arrested. My father was questioned for a full day before eventually being released. His crime was laughing.
The other guy was never seen again.
And this was one of the most "liberal" of the iron curtain countries. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:25 PM
But forget about the experiences of repression under Stalinist rule. I am asking you about what sort of things bring you a sense of fulfillment in life. Helping others? Having a loving wife that cares for you? Close and loyal friends? Family values? What? |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:28 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:06 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:05 PM
Bread lines =/= condition for fostering happiness
Surprising I know, but there you have it.
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:23 PM
edit: the conventional wisdom is if you attack capitalism you must therefore be a communist or socialist. conventional wisdom stresses the evils of idleness and bad resource allocation. we relegate one important class of production, that of the public good, to secondary status. we elevate production of private goods above all else despite the fact that we must manufacture demand for private goods to absorb productive capacity. |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:45 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:53 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:54 PM |
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Date: July 31st, 2012 3:37 PM |
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Date: August 1st, 2012 9:15 AM |
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Date: August 1st, 2012 9:18 AM
Congrats. |
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Date: August 1st, 2012 9:19 AM |
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Date: August 1st, 2012 9:21 AM |
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Date: August 1st, 2012 9:19 AM |
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Date: August 1st, 2012 11:11 AM |
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Date: August 3rd, 2012 1:28 PM |