I quit BIGLAW because I wasn't getting paid enough
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: November 19th, 2012 3:39 PM Author: excitant liquid oxygen party of the first part
This is just my overall philosophy on money/ jobs.
But for $160k, the job demanded way too much. And all that extra money did over say a salary of 50k, was enable me to buy more toys.
It's not life-altering type money. I can maybe get a slightly bigger house, a nicer car. That's it. Wasn't worth it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22075904) |
Date: November 19th, 2012 3:55 PM Author: Sick Sapphire Yarmulke
HAHA FAGGOT, YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO GET ANOTHER GOOD JOB AGAIN AND YOU'RE GOING TO DIE ALONE
KILLSELF
KILLSELF
KILLSELF
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076023) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:09 PM Author: Black trump supporter rehab
See, I hear a lot of people saying this, but I have yet to experience that.
I may be a bit anomolous in that (a) wife is home with kids, (b) we have pretty ready access to free babysitting & hand-me-downs, and (c) I have no current intention of paying for private school at any level.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076541)
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:16 PM Author: Passionate genital piercing
(a) $10k/year (this is housework and cooking only, not school/babysitting)
(b) $5k/year
(c) $25k/year per child
And keep in mind that is after taxes, and you enjoy the same tax benefits as anyone else with kids.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076591) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:23 PM Author: Black trump supporter rehab
(a) can be a net benefit or net cost, depending on number of kids and the stay-at-home spouse's earning potential, though.
I can't imagine spending $5,000/yr on babysitting. That can't be right.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076644)
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:22 PM Author: Appetizing tan hospital pocket flask
to qualify for the tax credit, you need to pay for a nanny on the books. most nannies insist on getting paid cash and if you want to get an EIN, they will adjust the cost accordingly to account for withholding, which more than eats up the tax credits. nobody i know who has a nanny does this.
of course, after the 7 years early childcare, you're also saving for $400-500k/year IN STATE california college tuition which will surely be in the case in 20 years. there's also private k-12 private school if you live in a shit urban area. in the alternative, if you want to live in a good school district so you can send your kids to public schools, then be prepared to shell out $300-500k more for a comparable house, which is probably what i'll end up doing. all in all, it's just one huge expense after another.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076639) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 8:08 PM Author: orchid titillating death wish library
Top 30 privates universities and LACs are generally providing grants instead of loans to the middle class.
E.g.:
Brown University
If you have a combined household income of less than $100,000, Brown will offer grants instead of student loans; for families making between $100,000 and $150,000, your child’s student loan debt will be capped at a total of $12,000–$20,000 over four years.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077932) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 12:42 PM Author: Appetizing tan hospital pocket flask
$400-500/year was actually a typo. it's $400-500k for 4 years. i don't think i can save $1M for 2 kids, but i'd rather not saddle them with $500k of high interest debt and will pay for as much as i can.
as far as your other blanket statements, they don't match w/ reality. my family would never quality for financial aid since my income alone is already over $120k. i live in a nice hood in LA now and would never send my kids to public school here, as the ethnic composition of these schools are 70% mexican and black. it is totally ghetto. i don't think you get how bad the LA public schools are. there are about 3-4 public school districts that are acceptable and the average price of homes in those hoods are at least $1M, generally more. and if you had a combined income of $120K, there's no way in hell you can afford to live in those "good enough" school districts. only in hypo dream world are you both under the financial aid cutoff and yet still be able to afford living in a good public school district.
what lots of poasters who don't live in high COL areas get is that making $300k as a family in LA doesn't make you rich. it just means you're not living paycheck to paycheck and can cover a mortgage in a good public school district and save up partially for college tuition for each kid, not even taking into account your own retirement savings.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22082647) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 2:55 PM Author: orchid titillating death wish library
Well, the premise of this thread is that it's NOT worth it to try to make 300K like you, and you seem to be confirming it. The free college is IF you have a chill job, like the OP.
Right now, the cost of Berkeley tuition + health insurance + room and board at a co-op for 4 years is $85,000. Scholarships are available (and guaranteed if you go to a place like UCSB, which has a very good honors college). No matter what your paranoid striver nightmares are, it will never go up to $500,000. The tuition portion of that is $51,000, so it would have to rise by more than EIGHT TIMES AFTER inflation and become almost three times as expensive as private colleges now. Do you realize how unreasonable claiming this makes you sound?
LA does seem like a shitty place to live, no doubt, but given your adherence to reality re UC pricing, I'm going to doubt that there aren't decent suburbs that are affordable. The Bay Area is more expensive overall, but even the cheap suburbs all have solid schools. My parents brought my sibling and me up somewhere more expensive than pretty much anywhere in LA on less than 120k/year, and paid for all our schooling to boot. K-12 was free, college cost me $13,000 with scholarships, law school was free + stipend.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22083468) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:27 PM Author: excitant liquid oxygen party of the first part
This is kind of my point though.
My wife and I make 1/2 that now and we aren't really scraping by imo. We don't really have to watch everyday purchases, just the big stuff (like cars or whatnot). Despite paying over 2k in rent, we still have money to save/ invest.
Lifestyle creep is definitely real. In BIGLAW I was spending more. But even living frugally, it just flat out wasn't life altering type of money. And my life altering I'm talking about really mattering - being liquid to the tune of $10-$20 million at least. I guess you could if you were a partner, but the odds are stacked against you in that regard.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076254) |
Date: November 19th, 2012 4:59 PM Author: arousing mad-dog skullcap area
speaking as someone who has both made 120k as a product manager type at a tech startup with free meals/ping pong/40 hour weeks, and 250k as a biglolyer working 60-70 hour weeks, it's a big fucking difference in pay (esp if you have loans)
QOL is much better making 120k. but there's a reason they double your pay
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076471) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:56 PM Author: Appetizing tan hospital pocket flask
i know a lot of useless history/poli sci/english degrees working good jobs (paying $120-150ish 7-8 years in plus better bennies than biglaw due to cheaper health premium, 401k matching, stock options, etc) in marketing, product development, HR, account management, etc. they got paid $30-40k starting out, but by early-mid 30s, they're like a manager or director of some sort still working 8/9-5/6pm.
your typical biglawyer takes 3 years from working, racked up a bunch of debt, sticks it out in biglaw or 3-5 years precisely to pay off debt and then is lucky to go in-house for a $150k F500 job or even a $80-90k govt job starting at 0 net worth once the loans are paid off.
why not just have worked the whole time with significantly better lifestyle for 7-8 years instead going to law school, rack up debt, kill yourself in biglaw only to start over in early-mid 30s and getting paid $25k better than somebody who's at the same company in a corporate position who has your same useless poli sci degree but had a chill lifestyle the whole time?
law school works out for some people, sure, but for even the vast majority of T14 students, i still think it's pretty much a scam and they could've ended up getting a more chill job w/o sacrificing that much money in the long run.
if i wasn't such a lazy shit when i graduated college who went to law school due solely to a good lsat and wanting to delay making any career decisions for 3 years, i would've just gone the route of finding a random job. i could be the operations manager of some random company and that'd be perfectly fine.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076896) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 10:55 PM Author: wonderful magenta useless brakes hairy legs
Nope. Not exactly.
That post is complete bullshit and anyone who has worked in a corporate gig out of college knows its bullshit.
Law is a terrible field to go into, but the starting salaries coming out of big law are more than twice what some poli sci shithead is making in his early thirties (and that's at the high end)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22079352) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 2:53 AM Author: Appetizing tan hospital pocket flask
when i say "competence" i mean strictly the ability to do the work, which frankly, everyone can. biglaw skills aren't really translatable or needed in-house so the focus is a lot more on fit and personality. anyway, i don't we're disagreeing that the elusive cushy in-house job is out of reach for, as you say, "99% of v5 associates." where i lose you, however, is when you say 99% of v5 associates wouldn't get hired at desired companies, and yet, it's somehow it's possible to set yourself up for such companies from day 1.
when hiring depends on so many intangibles, it's not actually possible to set yourself up for such a job at the outset because the emphasis is not on developing a certain skill-set. there are simply too many intangible factors like connections, fit, luck, timing, etc. hell, would i have been hired at my current job if somebody on the inside didn't follow my exact UG/law school trajectory? maybe not. i also clicked with one of the execs over some non-work related topics. if i interviewed with somebody else, maybe they'd hate me. who knows.
and this is precisely the point of the thread...that even for the vast majority of elite law school students going into prestigious big firms, you basically end up billing a ton of hours for money that's probably the height of your earnings potential but it ends up being a temporary boost designed to just help pay off your loans. 90% of them don't get that cushy exit option. afterwards, you're happy getting some generic in-house job or working in govt or at a smaller firm. so wtf is the point of it all when even the biglaw elite end up working some mediocre job post-biglaw? even though things worked out for me, i can very easily see how things could be very differently if luck and timing wasn't on my side.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22080882) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 8:18 PM Author: Appetizing tan hospital pocket flask
i am controlling on both sides.
your average top ivy undergrad poli sci shithead is the exact same person 3-4 years later in the biglaw firm.
i'm not including ttt college/law school/shitlaw in this. if you did, i'd still argue your average outcome from a ttt college being a $50k paralegal is still better than your average outcome from a ttt law school saddled with $150k of debt working a $50k shitlaw job.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22078042) |
Date: November 20th, 2012 12:44 PM Author: azure love of her life french chef
flame, but i'll play along
if you can live on 50k, good for you
at 50k, you cannot save jack shit so you are destined to work until you drop
at 160k, you can continue to live as if you make 50k. you can. but you can also save money. a lot of money if you are smart.
this saved money gets you closer to retirement very quickly, especially if you are okay with the equivalent of 50k the rest of your life.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22082657) |
Date: September 16th, 2014 5:54 PM Author: stimulating insane meetinghouse
one insightful exchange:
Lawyer Friend A: man, my in house job is great. It's boring paperwork helping our sales team, but I leave at 5pm every day and make six figures.
Non-Lawyer Friend B: I'm not a lawyer, but I leave at 5pm every day and make six figures too. And I manage a sales team.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#26340819) |
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