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I quit BIGLAW because I wasn't getting paid enough
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Date: November 19th, 2012 3:39 PM Author: mind-boggling overrated national security agency hall This is just my overall philosophy on money/ jobs.
But for $160k, the job demanded way too much. And all that extra money did over say a salary of 50k, was enable me to buy more toys.
It's not life-altering type money. I can maybe get a slightly bigger house, a nicer car. That's it. Wasn't worth it. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 3:48 PM Author: sienna frum university foreskin Any exit options, breh? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22075976) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 3:49 PM Author: mind-boggling overrated national security agency hall I quit a while ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22075982) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 3:52 PM Author: sienna frum university foreskin So what are you doing now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076000) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 3:52 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple This is probably credited. Why kill yourself for $160k when you can make $120k+free meals and ping pong doing nothing as a product manager at some dumb tech company? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076001) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 3:57 PM Author: cheese-eating trailer park gay wizard because YOU can't make 120k+free meals and ping pong doing nothing as a product manager at some dumb tech company. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076038) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:51 PM Author: Ultramarine Hairraiser Church Background Story lol this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076413) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:56 PM Author: At-the-ready school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076451) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 1:06 PM Author: beady-eyed copper address (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22082804) |
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Date: September 16th, 2014 4:41 PM Author: Puce kitchen jewess It was a joke. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#26340443) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 3:57 PM Author: Twinkling personal credit line maybe because the product manager is 40 years old?
u can make 300k in biglaw by then. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:48 PM Author: At-the-ready school cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076387) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 3:56 PM Author: Twinkling personal credit line except the 50k job can grow to 80k max.
while biglaw can grow to 300k. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:48 PM Author: At-the-ready school cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076386) |
Date: November 19th, 2012 3:55 PM Author: Pontificating Idiotic Resort HAHA FAGGOT, YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO GET ANOTHER GOOD JOB AGAIN AND YOU'RE GOING TO DIE ALONE
KILLSELF
KILLSELF
KILLSELF |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:14 PM Author: hilarious kitty cat useless brakes I don't get this - My wife and I combined make around 250k, and we're barely scraping by - and our hope isn't to buy a bigger house someday, it's just to be able to buy any house that isn't in the ghetto. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076165) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:17 PM Author: thirsty comical pervert explain how you barely scrape by with 250K (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076186) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:22 PM Author: hilarious kitty cat useless brakes Right now, any excess money we have goes to loans or to make estimated tax payments. Soon, any such excess will be used to save for a mortgage. Then we'll have day care, cay payment on a second car, possibly private school tuition, college savings, and retirement savings.
My point isn't that I'm poor, but that I'm not soaking in toys and luxuries. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:23 PM Author: Ebony psychic point i make $250k in MFH and save like $70k in a year (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076223) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:25 PM Author: hilarious kitty cat useless brakes are you married with kids? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076242) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:28 PM Author: Ebony psychic point no, but if i was married to my gf i would have more savings. how much is a kid? $20k per year? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076260) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:48 PM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard unless you plan to have a stay at home wife bringing in no income, the going rate for a nanny is $12-15/hour so if you want one for 40 hours/week, you're looking at well beyond $20k just for child care alone. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076388) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:50 PM Author: Cowardly ungodly pisswyrm School's free (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076397) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:51 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple You're basically on your own for childcare for 4.5 years and $20k/yr is a conservative estimate in a big city. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076411) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:52 PM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard i wasn't aware that kids go to school at 0-5 years old. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076414) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:04 PM Author: Cowardly ungodly pisswyrm So if you have 2 kids 2 years apart, let's say that's 7 years over a 40-year career. Hardly something to determine your lifestyle based on.
Especially since you can deduct the dependents, and get a tax CREDIT of $6000/year for child and dependent care expenses (once you have two kids). |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:06 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple Kids completely fuck your personal finances in a myriad of ways. You probably don't truly understand this if you don't have kids. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076513) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:09 PM Author: Lavender step-uncle's house See, I hear a lot of people saying this, but I have yet to experience that.
I may be a bit anomolous in that (a) wife is home with kids, (b) we have pretty ready access to free babysitting & hand-me-downs, and (c) I have no current intention of paying for private school at any level.
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:16 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple (a) $10k/year (this is housework and cooking only, not school/babysitting)
(b) $5k/year
(c) $25k/year per child
And keep in mind that is after taxes, and you enjoy the same tax benefits as anyone else with kids. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:23 PM Author: Lavender step-uncle's house (a) can be a net benefit or net cost, depending on number of kids and the stay-at-home spouse's earning potential, though.
I can't imagine spending $5,000/yr on babysitting. That can't be right.
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:28 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple Yeah, (a) is just my estimate if I didn't have to pay a housekeeper, eat out so much, etc. Obviously no savings if your wife is a private equity masterwoman or something.
Remember that $25k/year is only for school 9am-3pm like 170 days/year. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:47 PM Author: Lavender step-uncle's house "Remember that $25k/year is only for school 9am-3pm like 170 days/year."
Yeah, there's no way I'm paying that when my kids can get edumacated by the finest poli-sci shitheads my local government has to offer for FREE! |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:22 PM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard to qualify for the tax credit, you need to pay for a nanny on the books. most nannies insist on getting paid cash and if you want to get an EIN, they will adjust the cost accordingly to account for withholding, which more than eats up the tax credits. nobody i know who has a nanny does this.
of course, after the 7 years early childcare, you're also saving for $400-500k/year IN STATE california college tuition which will surely be in the case in 20 years. there's also private k-12 private school if you live in a shit urban area. in the alternative, if you want to live in a good school district so you can send your kids to public schools, then be prepared to shell out $300-500k more for a comparable house, which is probably what i'll end up doing. all in all, it's just one huge expense after another. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:29 PM Author: Cowardly ungodly pisswyrm Private school is pure striverism - any neighborhood you'd live in anyway will have good enough schools. Child success is mostly a function of the parents, and if anything, he'll have more of a chance to stand out at Aragon than at Palo Alto High School - it's funny how much supposedly savvy parents confuse correlation with causation.
And guess what, if you have a chill job, your college tuition will be near free - at top privates the cutoff is something like 120k/year. And I'm gonna have to doubt that UC fees + tuition will rise from the current $50,000 to $400,000 inflation adjusted. Plus, who knows, maybe the lazy kid can be responsible for his own damn college loans. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:32 PM Author: Lavender step-uncle's house "And guess what, if you have a chill job, your college tuition will be free"
Wait, I was pretty much with you up to that point. WTF? |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 8:08 PM Author: Cowardly ungodly pisswyrm Top 30 privates universities and LACs are generally providing grants instead of loans to the middle class.
E.g.:
Brown University
If you have a combined household income of less than $100,000, Brown will offer grants instead of student loans; for families making between $100,000 and $150,000, your child’s student loan debt will be capped at a total of $12,000–$20,000 over four years. |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 1:10 PM Author: Lavender step-uncle's house Shit. Not bad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22082846) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:32 PM Author: At-the-ready school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077630) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 12:42 PM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard $400-500/year was actually a typo. it's $400-500k for 4 years. i don't think i can save $1M for 2 kids, but i'd rather not saddle them with $500k of high interest debt and will pay for as much as i can.
as far as your other blanket statements, they don't match w/ reality. my family would never quality for financial aid since my income alone is already over $120k. i live in a nice hood in LA now and would never send my kids to public school here, as the ethnic composition of these schools are 70% mexican and black. it is totally ghetto. i don't think you get how bad the LA public schools are. there are about 3-4 public school districts that are acceptable and the average price of homes in those hoods are at least $1M, generally more. and if you had a combined income of $120K, there's no way in hell you can afford to live in those "good enough" school districts. only in hypo dream world are you both under the financial aid cutoff and yet still be able to afford living in a good public school district.
what lots of poasters who don't live in high COL areas get is that making $300k as a family in LA doesn't make you rich. it just means you're not living paycheck to paycheck and can cover a mortgage in a good public school district and save up partially for college tuition for each kid, not even taking into account your own retirement savings. |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 12:49 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple On $300k in LA you can afford an affluent yuppie lifestyle with private school, nice cars, good restaurants and fancy vacations, plus adequate retirement savings and probably another $40-50k in cash savings if you're conscious about your spending.
It would be really easy to blow it all though. |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 1:09 PM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard it's doable. i'm figuring in a $5-6k/mo mortgage and (hopefully) no private schools. the only thing is that you're basically using up all your money every month and if somebody loses a job or some medical emergency happens, you're totally fucked if you only have $40-50k in savings. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22082834) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 2:55 PM Author: Cowardly ungodly pisswyrm Well, the premise of this thread is that it's NOT worth it to try to make 300K like you, and you seem to be confirming it. The free college is IF you have a chill job, like the OP.
Right now, the cost of Berkeley tuition + health insurance + room and board at a co-op for 4 years is $85,000. Scholarships are available (and guaranteed if you go to a place like UCSB, which has a very good honors college). No matter what your paranoid striver nightmares are, it will never go up to $500,000. The tuition portion of that is $51,000, so it would have to rise by more than EIGHT TIMES AFTER inflation and become almost three times as expensive as private colleges now. Do you realize how unreasonable claiming this makes you sound?
LA does seem like a shitty place to live, no doubt, but given your adherence to reality re UC pricing, I'm going to doubt that there aren't decent suburbs that are affordable. The Bay Area is more expensive overall, but even the cheap suburbs all have solid schools. My parents brought my sibling and me up somewhere more expensive than pretty much anywhere in LA on less than 120k/year, and paid for all our schooling to boot. K-12 was free, college cost me $13,000 with scholarships, law school was free + stipend. |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 4:16 PM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard do you actually know anybody who goes to a UC now in-state? the people of i know (relatives of my friends) pay $30-40k/year for tuition/board/living expenses for cal and ucla depending on their individual situations. the tuition/fees have risen over 300% in the last 20 years and i remember reading articles saying 100% of that was in the last 5 years or so when they kept raising tuition by ~10-20% every year. it's def not out of the question for college in-state to cost $100k/year in 20 years and private colleges will be more. in fact, it's prob a conservative estimate given how retardedly bankrupt this state is.
your experience growing up also doesn't mean i can raise kids the same way b/c real life unfolds in ways that doesn't allow you to do certain things. yes, there LA burbs with good schools and cheaper housing but my job is in LA and i can't move 2 hours away just to get free K-12 education. you also got scholarships to go to college. the UCs (and most top privates college) only give need-based scholarships to entering students and not merit ones. just because you can find in-state costs estimates, tax credits, fin aid rules for private colleges and things that can make life easier doesn't mean that they're things i can take advantage of or anything that comports w/ my situation and those of other yuppies in high COL areas. |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 4:41 PM Author: Cowardly ungodly pisswyrm My sibling is at Berkeley right now, living in a co-op.
And I understand these things are tougher for you - but again, that's the point o this thread. OP has dropped out of the rat race BECAUSE it means he won't HAVE to be a yuppy in a high COL area. Working much harder does not seem to have bought you any additional luxury or security. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:36 PM Author: Self-absorbed national pozpig So your advice is to illegally circumvent employment laws? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077661) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:45 PM Author: Violet filthy gas station sounds like good advice from a lawyer that posts pictures of themselves on an internet board full of weird dudes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077746) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 9:30 PM Author: thirsty comical pervert no grandmas to take care of them? that's what proles do: family (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22078667) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 1:12 PM Author: Lavender step-uncle's house Hey man, if free babysitting is prole, than I am one prole-ass motherfucker. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22082863) |
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Date: September 16th, 2014 6:20 PM Author: disrespectful spot electric furnace CR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#26340946) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:27 PM Author: mind-boggling overrated national security agency hall This is kind of my point though.
My wife and I make 1/2 that now and we aren't really scraping by imo. We don't really have to watch everyday purchases, just the big stuff (like cars or whatnot). Despite paying over 2k in rent, we still have money to save/ invest.
Lifestyle creep is definitely real. In BIGLAW I was spending more. But even living frugally, it just flat out wasn't life altering type of money. And my life altering I'm talking about really mattering - being liquid to the tune of $10-$20 million at least. I guess you could if you were a partner, but the odds are stacked against you in that regard. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:49 PM Author: At-the-ready school cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076390) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:46 PM Author: Cowardly ungodly pisswyrm So he could either barely scrape by at a chill job or "barely scrape by" at an awful BigLaw job - looks like he made the right choice. Obviously the extra money isn't giving you any extra joy or sense of security. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076374) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:53 PM Author: concupiscible bawdyhouse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076421) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:57 PM Author: At-the-ready school cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076457) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 9:38 AM Author: hilarious kitty cat useless brakes My point is that he isn't scraping by at 50k, not if he wants to have a family and not live in a ghetto and not send his kids to a school full of gangbangers
Look, if he's moving to peoria, that's a different matter, and 50k may be enough, but dont think anyone can have a nice middle class family lifestyle in NYC or DC on 50k |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 4:59 PM Author: mauve swashbuckling lay speaking as someone who has both made 120k as a product manager type at a tech startup with free meals/ping pong/40 hour weeks, and 250k as a biglolyer working 60-70 hour weeks, it's a big fucking difference in pay (esp if you have loans)
QOL is much better making 120k. but there's a reason they double your pay |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:00 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple Lol, lawyer logic. "The money you make as a lawyer makes a huge difference in your ability to repay the debt you take out by going to law school. But your quality of life is much lower." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076481) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:01 PM Author: mauve swashbuckling lay apparently there's no other loans in the world other than law school loans - great retard logic (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076483) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:04 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple Law school loans are some of the least retarded loans. If you need to make an extra $130k/yr at a soul-crushing job to pay undergrad loans or a McMansion mortgage you are truly a moron. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076504) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:05 PM Author: mauve swashbuckling lay yeah man just give up $130k a year (typical xoxo college board shitpoaster) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076510) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:07 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple I'm a senior associate and I save that $130k/yr, or at least its equivalent after taxes. If it were all going to some kind of debt payment I would definitely kill self. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076527) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:08 PM Author: mauve swashbuckling lay i dont know why we're even arguing then. asshole. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076533) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:13 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple I'm not arguing, I just think it's hilarious that boomers have scammed so many smart kids into this shit profession. It's basically indentured servitude and all you get is prestige points based on your firm name and some salary figure that is actually pretty pathetic after you take out loan payments and the benefits that are standard at nearly any job other than associate at a law firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076569) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:21 PM Author: mauve swashbuckling lay meh, it worked out fine for me so i'm obviously biased, but it's not like most poli sci shitheads have significantly better options than law school (they sure as hell are not coppin dat 120k PM job, it's more like a 40k publishing or marketing shitjob)
and assuming you get in a decent pratice area at a good (read: lifestyle) firm it sets you up pretty nicely in the long term |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:24 PM Author: Lavender step-uncle's house "it's not like most poli sci shitheads have significantly better options than law school"
Yeah, that's the thing. But once you gain some experience/credibility/prestige points from the law career, it might make a lot more sense to take that to another industry/job (if you've got any transferable skills). |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:56 PM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard i know a lot of useless history/poli sci/english degrees working good jobs (paying $120-150ish 7-8 years in plus better bennies than biglaw due to cheaper health premium, 401k matching, stock options, etc) in marketing, product development, HR, account management, etc. they got paid $30-40k starting out, but by early-mid 30s, they're like a manager or director of some sort still working 8/9-5/6pm.
your typical biglawyer takes 3 years from working, racked up a bunch of debt, sticks it out in biglaw or 3-5 years precisely to pay off debt and then is lucky to go in-house for a $150k F500 job or even a $80-90k govt job starting at 0 net worth once the loans are paid off.
why not just have worked the whole time with significantly better lifestyle for 7-8 years instead going to law school, rack up debt, kill yourself in biglaw only to start over in early-mid 30s and getting paid $25k better than somebody who's at the same company in a corporate position who has your same useless poli sci degree but had a chill lifestyle the whole time?
law school works out for some people, sure, but for even the vast majority of T14 students, i still think it's pretty much a scam and they could've ended up getting a more chill job w/o sacrificing that much money in the long run.
if i wasn't such a lazy shit when i graduated college who went to law school due solely to a good lsat and wanting to delay making any career decisions for 3 years, i would've just gone the route of finding a random job. i could be the operations manager of some random company and that'd be perfectly fine. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 6:54 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple Exactly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077294) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 10:55 PM Author: gaped adventurous set Nope. Not exactly.
That post is complete bullshit and anyone who has worked in a corporate gig out of college knows its bullshit.
Law is a terrible field to go into, but the starting salaries coming out of big law are more than twice what some poli sci shithead is making in his early thirties (and that's at the high end) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 6:55 PM Author: At-the-ready school cr cr cr cr cr
i wish i knew all of this before going to law school. was too fucking lazy to apply to b school |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:28 PM Author: Lavender step-uncle's house I sort of feel the same way, except I didn't take out loans (well, very minimal) to go to law school, so I can't really complain.
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:38 PM Author: Ultramarine Hairraiser Church Background Story meh, assuming equal competence on both sides the law school grad in your hypo should be making 250-300 at an in house role, not 150
granted this is for in demand trasnactional work, shiTTTIgation associates dont count as people |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:39 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple Just do cop that $300k/yr in-house job, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077689) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:40 PM Author: Ultramarine Hairraiser Church Background Story sorry about your tiny pink in house prospects bro. shoulda picked better coming out of lawl school (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077701) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:49 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple It was pre-recession and I just went to the highest ranked firm. Who fucking knew that some firms actively place associates in-house? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077778) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:51 PM Author: Ultramarine Hairraiser Church Background Story yeah i mean in all seriousness/flaming aside, and no offense to you, the type of risk averse overachiever who goes to law school/V5 because everyone else is, is not the proactive type that would do significantly better law school or not (in a world where they didnt go to law school, they end up grindin it out in a middle manager spot some where ala office space). at least in the meantime they make a decent amount of $$$ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077799) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 8:03 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple I actually disagree with that. Boring grinders do well in corporate America. My problem is kind of the opposite - Biglaw allows you all kinds of leeway as long as you're billing hours. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077895) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 8:15 PM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard the thing is that the law school grad has to be in the upper echelons of luck/connections amongst biglawyers who all have the same credentials to get the $250-300k in-house job (competence isn't really an issue). maybe 15-20% of the in-house folks i know make that and they're mostly finance places in NYC or specific companies known for generous comp (google, amazon).
this isn't 2005-2006 anymore. companies are not hiring, particularly not lawyers who generate no revenue. most corporate biglawyer i know (from prestigious firms) are still busting their asses trying to get their foot in the door at some low-mid 100s junior corporate counsel gig at verizon or some huge company where they're competing with 100 other corporate biglawyers for the job that they just listed on the website for HR purposes and the person who ends up getting it has the most inside connections. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 9:05 PM Author: fragrant fat ankles This is CR. You can tell which posters are midlevel/senior associates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22078409) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 10:36 PM Author: Ultramarine Hairraiser Church Background Story so set yourself to go to finance or google/amazons from day 1. anyone with a little foresight/planning can figure this siht out - i have no sympathy for V5 gunner idiots who went M&A/cap markets cause it was the 'prestigious' thing to do and now have no exit options
and strongly disagree on competence - 99% of v5 midlevel/senior associates would not get hired at Google/amazon/fb/etc for their typical in house job (M&A departments excepted). this is speakikng as someone who has/had multiple of these opportunities and know many people with these kinds of opps. lawl competence/experience doesnt mean shit past a baseline - it's about connections, personality, likability, business sense, etc. |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 2:53 AM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard when i say "competence" i mean strictly the ability to do the work, which frankly, everyone can. biglaw skills aren't really translatable or needed in-house so the focus is a lot more on fit and personality. anyway, i don't we're disagreeing that the elusive cushy in-house job is out of reach for, as you say, "99% of v5 associates." where i lose you, however, is when you say 99% of v5 associates wouldn't get hired at desired companies, and yet, it's somehow it's possible to set yourself up for such companies from day 1.
when hiring depends on so many intangibles, it's not actually possible to set yourself up for such a job at the outset because the emphasis is not on developing a certain skill-set. there are simply too many intangible factors like connections, fit, luck, timing, etc. hell, would i have been hired at my current job if somebody on the inside didn't follow my exact UG/law school trajectory? maybe not. i also clicked with one of the execs over some non-work related topics. if i interviewed with somebody else, maybe they'd hate me. who knows.
and this is precisely the point of the thread...that even for the vast majority of elite law school students going into prestigious big firms, you basically end up billing a ton of hours for money that's probably the height of your earnings potential but it ends up being a temporary boost designed to just help pay off your loans. 90% of them don't get that cushy exit option. afterwards, you're happy getting some generic in-house job or working in govt or at a smaller firm. so wtf is the point of it all when even the biglaw elite end up working some mediocre job post-biglaw? even though things worked out for me, i can very easily see how things could be very differently if luck and timing wasn't on my side. |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 12:53 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple Should also acknowledge that the job market has been totally shitty for the past 4 years and that's why people are having so much trouble landing these jobs. In 2007 everyone had the option to go in-house for a relatively small pay cut. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22082701) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 1:05 PM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard agreed. shitty economy goes as part of the timing element you can't control and the economy's going to be shitty for a long time.
it is just absurd though to say that somebody can plan to land a desirable in-house gig with some planning and foresight. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:39 PM Author: mahogany double fault Cr
Nutella is arguably the most level-headed poaster on this god-forsaken board |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:42 PM Author: Arousing Ratface Station this is only credited if she's describing friends from a top flight undergrad. in general, this is not the reality for an average college grad who stays in a ttt job for years on end. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077715) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:43 PM Author: Ultramarine Hairraiser Church Background Story yeah this. you have to control for both sides. your average poli sci shithead that ends up at a dead end 150k in house job after lawl school is not gonna end up making 150k if he just grinds it through. those types top out at like 90k working 40 hours a week (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077726) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 8:18 PM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard i am controlling on both sides.
your average top ivy undergrad poli sci shithead is the exact same person 3-4 years later in the biglaw firm.
i'm not including ttt college/law school/shitlaw in this. if you did, i'd still argue your average outcome from a ttt college being a $50k paralegal is still better than your average outcome from a ttt law school saddled with $150k of debt working a $50k shitlaw job. |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:45 PM Author: At-the-ready school there were a few dumb chicks at my gf's old company (small fashion label) typical sex and city types that started off in nyc, graduated from some of the worst undergrad schools imaginable, dumb as rock, officious shitlibs. they made anywhere from $90k to $130k fucking around on pinterest 10-5 and running their various product lines into the ground like the incompetent idiots they were. i had to show my gf how to use excel, who then had to show her boss, who was responsible for tracking her product through to bdales/barneys etc, how to use excel. made me mad as fuck to think these bitches make more than my future self will make as some loser gov atty or in shitlaw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077744) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 8:24 PM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard speaking of fashion, i have a good friend who was laid off in the 2009 massacre (typical credentials, HYSCCN, v10, etc) who then tried to get into retail merchandising. got a few intvs since she's hot and has connections in fashion but they all dinged her cuz of the JD and said she was over-educated, not experienced enough and hired the floor manager from j.crew who went to hofstra instead. she ended up taking a bunch of fashion internships at 28 for resume value when she could've been doing at 20-21 in college summers. another stupid myth propagated by boomers is how VERSATILE your JD is and how people will be impressed by it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22078090) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 10:43 PM Author: At-the-ready school what does she do now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22079266) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 2:58 AM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard "GC" for a e-commerce "start-up" she knows from HBS connections. it pays shit ($50k), and the company might die if the next funding round doesn't go through, but she can write whatever she wants for the resume and she's hoping that it'll land her a real in-house gig some time soon. she's bounced around a lot in the past few years and this is prob the best gig she's gotten thus far. she also lives w/ 2 roomies in a shitty apt and waitresses on nights and weekends (bottle service tips pays well!) yeah, that's what a t6/v10 resume gets you 5 years out of school.
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Date: November 20th, 2012 12:22 PM Author: At-the-ready school fuck. makes my ungrateful gf seem so lazy, horrible, worthless and useless (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22082544) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 12:28 PM Author: hot chrome haunted graveyard your gf doesn't still have $100k worth of loans though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22082575) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 9:10 AM Author: Boyish Office tbf, a lot of people taking those $40K jobs out of school also end up peaking at $70K or so. Not everyone makes it into management. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22081512) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 11:53 AM Author: Coiffed impertinent corner dingle berry Not everyone makes it to BIGLAW either (in fact, a very small percentage do in overall law students). I think the anti-law school people here (myself included) are for the most part people who attended top UGs and top law schools working at BIGLAW firms who are comparing themselves to their peers who went the non-law route, not some random fat midwestern office manager for a dental office peaking at $70K. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22082411) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 1:16 PM Author: Boyish Office I was talking about people from top schools also. Particularly nutella assuming she'd be some kind of manager making $150K by now. plenty of smart people get stuck careerwise and never get above 6 figures. ARE country it is even worse, companies have no reason to ever promote anyone since they have no where else to go. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22082886) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 6:57 PM Author: At-the-ready school cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077318) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:05 PM Author: At-the-ready school and what do you plan on doing with that extra $130K after tax after u leave biglaw? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077381) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:12 PM Author: Effete buck-toothed temple AAPL stock, multiple properties to live in and rent, squats, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077448) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:06 PM Author: Lavender step-uncle's house lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076518) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 5:08 PM Author: floppy orchestra pit did you approach your boss and ask for a raise? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22076537) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 6:57 PM Author: At-the-ready school wtf man this thread is putting me into a bad mood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077321) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 6:58 PM Author: Passionate stock car black woman boo hoo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077325) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:32 PM Author: Lavender step-uncle's house I think you misunderstand the point of the OP (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077629) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:38 PM Author: Arousing Ratface Station why do lawyers get so defensive in these threads (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22077680) |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 7:40 PM Author: Chocolate tanning salon regret NY to 190! Oh just read OP... |
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Date: November 19th, 2012 9:06 PM Author: house-broken anal brunch reading party I went from TTT college (not xo TTT, literal shit school) to working at a department store to T14 sticker and am now headed to biglaw. Was this worth it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22078419) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 7:27 AM Author: Talented people who are hurt hospital depends on what your grade in organic chemistry was (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22081389) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 9:59 AM Author: Elite Cracking Crackhouse Macaca I have a college buddy who went the non profit route for two years after ug, got into a top bschool and is now in a high level non profit management position making 120K (9-5 hours, no weekends, every holiday off and reduced schedule--30-35 hours--during the summer) at 26. He can move into government or for profit (if he wants more $$) with relatively ease. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22081661) |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 12:44 PM Author: Soul-stirring rigpig flame, but i'll play along if you can live on 50k, good for you at 50k, you cannot save jack shit so you are destined to work until you drop at 160k, you can continue to live as if you make 50k. you can. but you can also save money. a lot of money if you are smart. this saved money gets you closer to retirement very quickly, especially if you are okay with the equivalent of 50k the rest of your life. |
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Date: November 20th, 2012 7:31 PM Author: Galvanic Sable Prole Parlour If you're going to be some nomad banging different girls in every country, then sure, frugality + BIGLAW nest egg + retiring at 40 works well. But if you have a family it's great to have a 9-5 job you find interesting. I love my wife and kid, but I'd killself if I had to be around them 24/7. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#22085353) |
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Date: September 16th, 2014 6:12 PM Author: Laughsome demanding friendly grandma roommate *retires at 45 after twenty years of stress*
*has massive heart attack* |
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Date: September 16th, 2014 5:54 PM Author: Ebony psychic point one insightful exchange:
Lawyer Friend A: man, my in house job is great. It's boring paperwork helping our sales team, but I leave at 5pm every day and make six figures.
Non-Lawyer Friend B: I'm not a lawyer, but I leave at 5pm every day and make six figures too. And I manage a sales team. |
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Date: September 16th, 2014 6:20 PM Author: Know-it-all Sound Barrier sales team manager has more stress and responsbility (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#26340948) |
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Date: September 16th, 2014 6:40 PM Author: razzle light legend faggotry i take it that in this anecdote, managing a sales team is something to aspire to? or least something less boring than paperwork for the sales team? they're both shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#26341029) |
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Date: September 16th, 2014 10:03 PM Author: Ebony psychic point i know a sales manager that makes bank. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#26342241) |
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Date: September 16th, 2014 7:02 PM Author: 180 old irish cottage I love that managing a sales team is considered maeking it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2118099&forum_id=2#26341115) |
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Date: September 16th, 2014 10:03 PM Author: Ebony psychic point so if sales manager isn't making it, what is a commercial in house lawyer?
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