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Would you take this in-house job?
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:23 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe I just received an offer to go inhouse, the job is with a small public company in Long Island, legal dept is small, with only 2 other attorneys. Pay is a lowish 115k, I have been told the hours are typically 9-7, which is longer than I expected. I was hoping for 9 to 5.
I am at a v30 nyc corp, T14, ivy undergrad. Would you take this job? I am really on the fence about this one. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:25 PM Author: Plum Odious Antidepressant Drug Goal In Life Do you know the ages of the senior attorney staff? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144112) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:29 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe yes, both are young, I have met with both, they seem nice. GC is about 40 or so, the other guy is maybe 35 or so.
I recognize there are some inherent risks in going to a small company, I may not get along well with the team, etc. but I guess I will also learn more. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:31 PM Author: exhilarant theater half-breed Sounds like shit for NY. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144155) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 7:51 PM Author: Sadistic tripping hall community account I would wait it out and get an inhouse job that starts closer to 200k (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23146789) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 8:46 PM Author: citrine cruise ship LOL, good flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23147073) |
Date: May 6th, 2013 12:26 PM Author: Galvanic associate take that job and you'll probably never make more than 150k ever again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144121) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:30 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe You don't think this will leverage well into another in-house job at a bigger company with higher pay? I am personally fine with making 150k forever btw, but I would like to work only 9 to 5 in that case. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144152) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:37 PM Author: Galvanic associate no. put in a few more years in biglaw then try to go inhouse. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144198) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:06 PM Author: Mahogany parlour psychic FYI - bigger company doesn't necessarily mean bigger pay. It isn't like with law firms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145765) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:30 PM Author: hot reading party answer depends on the industry of the company. if it's something marketable like tech or finance, i'd take it and use it to jump ship after getting some experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144148) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:34 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe Industry is construction. I don't think it's a particularly hot field. I don't necessarily want to stay at this company forever, just want to perhaps leverage this into something better (generally lifestyle-wise, as my beef is more with the 9-7 than with 115k) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144181) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:38 PM Author: hot reading party i would not take the job. construction in-house won't give you options down the road. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144203) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:39 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe So industry matters a lot for inhouse? What industries are good (besides those you have mentioned) and what are bad? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144213) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:46 PM Author: hot reading party no industry is bad as long as you're willing to stay in that industry, but obviously some industries have more companies and options available than others. aside from tech and finance, anything media/entertainment-related and consumer products. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144255) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:29 PM Author: Apoplectic garrison new version industry does NOT matter as much as it's being portrayed here, so long as you get broad experience, at the beginning of your in house career i am in the tech industry in house, and i had callbacks for in house in a completely different industry not two months ago construction in house is going to see employment, real estate, labor, contracts, govt procurement, finance, e comp, and possibly securities and shit depending on what gets thrown your way pretty much any in house is going to want people who can do that |
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Date: May 7th, 2013 9:12 AM Author: vigorous rose cumskin library i am in the tech industry in house, and i had callbacks for in house in a completely different industry not two months ago
AWESOME ANECDOTE BRO |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:30 PM Author: buck-toothed charismatic dopamine 9-7 means 9-10, with regular weekends. 115 is too low. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144151) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:32 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe You meant when they tell you 9-7, it's really 9-10? Do companies really work their people to 10 pm? I have never seen in-house counsels sticking around that late. They also told me weekends are very rare. BS? What do you think is a reasonable pay for the job I described? Maybe I can get them to raise the pay a bit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144163) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:36 PM Author: hot reading party no, in-house is never 9-10 or regular weekend, this person doesn't know wtf they're talking about.
$115k is on the low side, but it's on LI so assuming you lived there, it'd at least be cheaper.
in-house salary is also always negotiable so i would push for something close toward $125k. is there a bonus component to it?
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:38 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe No bonus, but I think it's at least something I can try to get. What is reasonable for a job like this? Typical to get 20%?
I am in the city now, but very likely will move to LI if this job works out. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:43 PM Author: hot reading party 20% sounds high. maybe 10%.
i doubt this construction company has tons of well credentialed v30 corp associates begging to work for them, so i'd try to go for a $10k bonus or simply a higher salary.
i still wouldn't take the job though, as i don't think it opens doors, unless your plan is to stay there forever and take over as GC in 20 years. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:46 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe Thanks. I was hoping to leverage this so I can have more in-house options down the line. Even if I want to stay there forever, it's good to have options so I can leave if I want.
What sort of inhouse jobs open doors? Would a bigger company be better? |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:13 PM Author: hot reading party i dont think a bigger company would necessarily be better but you should be doing the kind of work that is marketable to different companies later on. is this job more veering toward actual construction legal work (like drafting contracts w/ subcontractors) or can you spin it as commercial RE finance work like you're working on loan docs? if you went to a time warner or a GE, nobody would question if you're doing "sophisticated" work (even though legal work in-house is generally a joke, anyway). but if they think you're drafting small-time contracts to build mcmansions for LI guidos, this isn't going to open doors. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144460) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:17 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe since their legal team is small, I was told that I will be working on a whole bunch of different matters, ranging from corp governance, SEC filings/compliance, M&A works, supply contracts, construction contracts, etc. Apparently they have a lot of M&A work. Guys told me about 1/3 is M&A.
I'd think working on a wide range of matters will open doors, even if the company isn't exactly prestigious. What do you think? |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:26 PM Author: hot reading party yes, i think the range of matters will open more doors, but do you really want to be working on M&A in-house for $115k?
i don't know, just sounds stressful. i know guys who are in-house at private equity firms and they work 9-8 but they're making biglaw or close to biglaw salary for those hours and they're typically the guys who were billing 2400-2500/year anyway, so 9-8 is a vast improvement for them. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:33 PM Author: Apoplectic garrison new version agreed it's stressful - how much chance you think this guy has to get a better deal before being pushed out in the next 1-2 yrs? seeing he's going to be doing some real in-demand shit, i'm rethinking the "wait and see" suggestion i gave above but yeah 115K 9-7 is SUPER shitty that I'm almost calling flame |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:46 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe No flame, I am serious.
The senior guys told me they do about 5 M&A deals a year, typically only stay late around closing. I don't know, I have never worked on M&As.
I will be taking a huge paycut, about 35% in real terms (after factoring taxes, etc). My don't exactly have issues with the money. As I mentioned, I have 2 kids, wife also works. I was hoping for more of a lifestyle change. Also I am concerned about my future marketability to other inhouse jobs. I don't want to commit professional suicide, but I do want to go in-house.
You raised another real concern as well, I don't know how much longer I have left at my firm. The thing with law firms is you are cursing yourself when it's busy, then when it slows down you suspect they are trying to shitcan your ass. It's just really stressful either way.
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:48 PM Author: hot reading party i'd say chances are low he gets something better, which is depressing, but such is the nature of having too many biglaw associates but not enough in-house jobs for all of them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144729) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:51 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe I am interviewing for another inhouse job, pay is 150k, work days are typically 10-12 hours, that's in NYC. this is depressing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144748) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:54 PM Author: Mind-boggling home Consider relocating out of NYC. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144765) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:11 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe I haven't seen too many in-house openings outside of NYC, plus, I think they may not want to hire someone straight out of NYC biglaw (just my guess). I'd think they would prefer someone coming from regional biglaw in the local market. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144836) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 6:13 PM Author: Mahogany parlour psychic No. Just no. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23146195) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:13 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe I have another Q for you and anyone inhouse.
At my pre-LS job, I may be in the office 9-6, but I was really just working 50% of the time at best. The rest is spent chatting with people, taking a walk or browsing internet. At a law firm, unless you are padding the shit out of your hours, you are working solid 10-12 hour days. Do inhouse people work more like the former or the later? |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:17 PM Author: hot reading party i work in a small legal dept too (i'm the 3rd, most junior person here) and i think i work 25-50% of the time on average. of course, some days i am actually busy and work straight for 6-7 hrs with an hour for lunch where i usually go to the gym. it's weird but everyone always take lunch here. not billing is very liberating. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144856) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:23 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe You only work 25-50% of the time? That's a really low percentage. Even at my pre-ls job I think I worked about 50%, like, 4-5 hours of real work each day. So inhouse seems really is a piece of cake (I understand this depends on the company, of course) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144897) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:55 PM Author: hot reading party i dont know how typical my situation is either. i have friends who are in-house at various companies and it just seems like things are not as deadline-driven as they are at a law firm and there are rarely, if any, fire drills. you can be given a contract to mark up, but if it's a complicated contract, outside counsel has already marked it up and you're just reviewing, or if it's a run of the mill contract, you have several days to look at it, not stay late to send out comments by midnight.
i report directly to the GC and he gives me projects but it's not a constant flow of stuff like it was at a law firm when i was managing my own cases and just had a constant list of things to do and partners giving me stupid unnessary projects to run up the bill.
my boss works harder than i do (working all day/on calls, etc. from around 7:30-5/5:30pm), but then he makes over $1M/year so given that he's making big firm partner comp for nowhere near the type of big firm hours/stress, it's still a great gig. i'm in finance though, so the comp is much higher than other types of in-house.
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:32 PM Author: Apoplectic garrison new version This is pretty much my situation, too. I watched two old episodes of Tough Crowd with Colin Quinn in the middle of the day today. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144946) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:34 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe Damn bro, that sounds chill. I sometimes watch movies at firm if work is really slow, but on those days I will invariably be concerned about my hours, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144955) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:35 PM Author: Apoplectic garrison new version My only concern is what is my next career move. That's why I was interviewing recently for a different in house job. My options just vested and we could be sold in the next couple years - wanna stay and help grow and get that exp (might try to do a boutique startup firm one day where i just take equity and charge very little in the way of fees, dunno) or try to move up to a higher paying salary position at a preftigious well-known corp money-wise I stand to inherit in a couple decades plus my wife does too and she's a doctor, i recognize it has huge benefits for career planning, but i still on dat careerscared tip |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:39 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe IC bro. My wife is a doctor as well, I'd say that this both hinders and helps career planning. When we move, we will need to find two acceptable/good jobs, that's harder to do than finding just one, but it does open me up to considering jobs that pay shit, like this one. I am really disappointed that the hours are so long though, was really hoping to work just 9-5ish, low stress, and just fuck off all day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144997) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:42 PM Author: Apoplectic garrison new version Same here. We're discussing where to move next, and I'm throwing around NYC, DC, etc. because I want to be around genius people and I feel at the top of the intellectual, if not professional, pile at all times in Texas. But hearing about biglaw associates in MFH struggling to get 115K in-house positions worries the fuck out of me. Makes me want to stay in TX and maybe try to lateral into business side of things. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145011) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:38 PM Author: godawful shrine $115 is low. $150 is low too but probably personal minimum for NYC region. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144204) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:18 PM Author: Mahogany parlour psychic 150 is too low? Then you're limited to very few In-house positions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145847) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:52 PM Author: Primrose infuriating potus volcanic crater lol. don't take this shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144285) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:56 PM Author: Mind-boggling home 9-7 where you always have to be there 9-7 sounds rather shitty. I almost prefer my biglaw schedule (a few more hours, but more flexibility). That's a massive paycut for those hours. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144324) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:07 PM Author: Primrose infuriating potus volcanic crater yea 9-7 is way too long to take that kind of paycut. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144397) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:15 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe What do you think is reasonable pay for this kind of job?
Just for my own information, is 9-7 typical for in-house or is in-house mostly 9-5? |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:36 PM Author: Apoplectic garrison new version 9-5 variable up to 9-7 is typical i hear biglaw partners telling me in house works hours like biglaw, but i just don't see it granted i'm in texas, but i work 40ish hours, and one of my best friends works probably less and makes way way more |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:46 PM Author: hot reading party i would say most metro area in-house jobs are 9-6 or 8-5pm. 9-5 and 9-7 are both common too, but $115k is more a 9-5 sort of pay. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144716) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:45 PM Author: Primrose infuriating potus volcanic crater I don't know how it is for legal specifically, but generally in corporate you don't have regular business hours with meetings and shit past 5. You may have work that you stay late for but it's not supposed to be a regular thing. If it is then you aren't managing expectations properly.
I duno how much stuff should pay. everyone probably lies about this shit. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:06 PM Author: Irate Pale Really Tough Guy Sounds awful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144392) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:31 PM Author: Apoplectic garrison new version if it were 9-5 probably do it but 9-7 LJL hold your horses, keep stackin dat biglaw paypah, and look for something better edit hang on 9-7 doesn't sound that bad actually, in texas we start work at 8, so you're really only putting in an extra hour a day than the "norm" here... |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:29 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe they indicated they are flexible on the beginning of the day, GC sometimes don't come in until 9:30, so I may be able to cut it by 30 minutes.
So in Texas you work 8 to 6? Jesus man, do normal 9-5 8-hour workdays no longer exist? What's the pay there? |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:33 PM Author: Apoplectic garrison new version 9-5 is 7 hours, and I work 8-5 officially but often leave at 3 to hit the gym, then do a little random work in the evenings like draft up policy documents or refine our data retention procedures or something (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144954) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:37 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe ic. do you always take 1 hour lunch? what is the typical pay in texas for this kind of job? maybe I should move to texas and cop dat 3000 sq ft lexus and wife? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144978) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:39 PM Author: Apoplectic garrison new version I usually take a 1hr lunch but no one would care if it took longer or shorter, i am in house with a tech startup, so my situation is extremely atypical for salary, hours, experience, etc. i don't talk about money with people IRL, but based on when i've researched the lateral market, I'd say in house at an established institution can range from 85K (State Bar alert for a university jr associate counsel position recently) to probably 300-400K for GC at a big place, maybe more, dunno |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:24 PM Author: Mahogany parlour psychic Yeah, at my place no one is watching to see when you clock in or out as long as the work gets done. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145910) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:19 PM Author: bateful masturbator site no fucking way man, and you are making me depressed even presenting it as an option.
You are currently making biglaw market, right? Just keep grinding away. You're long term prospects are much better if you wait it out for a job with a larger base. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:30 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe Sorry breh, wish I have better news. LOL
I am making biglaw market, but in a very specific field, like securitization, structured products, etc. I am afraid if I stay here longer, I will either (1) be fired or (2) be pigeon-holed into this field and no longer marketable for inhouse generally. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:43 PM Author: Bespoke pistol menage going to a construction firm isn't going to help you with this problem. you need to get into a good industry if you are considering in-house. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145018) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 3:18 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe I have another interview lined up with another small public company, they are a wholesaler of construction materials. better? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145173) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 3:02 PM Author: Electric Black Point I actually am a real estate attorney so thought I would chime in. Construction law is a very nice little niche field, we have one person at our firm who exclusively handles construction stuff, and nobody else knows shit about it so we rely on him and he basically does his work on his time when he feels like it as an of counsel. As development ramps up, I think this would put u into an excellent niche to obtain an of counsel position being the dude who reads all the construction contracts for the firms real estate clients, and it will be chill because nobody will probably be overseeing what you do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145094) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 3:22 PM Author: godawful shrine why is our profession sps? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145193) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 3:37 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe what does sps stand for? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145253) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 4:16 PM Author: Silver geriatric headpube quadroon Shit, pure shit.
in 2005-06, V30 corporate associates making market were jumping ship like crazy to dat $200k 9-5 in-house. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 4:55 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe dude, welcome to 2008-present/future, things have changed.
I just got this from a recruiter:
"The role offers a base compensation in the mid $100s plus a target all cash bonus; typical work day is approximately 10-12 hours."
Can we say SPS? I think this is worse than the job described in the OP. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:10 PM Author: Mahogany parlour psychic That sounds horrible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145784) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:13 PM Author: godawful shrine could be $130-170k plus 15-20% target bonus
i have heard about nyc region inhouse jobs with base from $160-$225k. usually with about 10-20% target bonus.
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:15 PM Author: Mahogany parlour psychic Yeah but those have a biglaw lifestyle. Why would anyone choose to live like that? So they could drive some luxury car to a nicer house they'll never see? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145820) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:18 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe but dude, the job requires 10-12 hours a day, I think these hours are actually worse than biglaw. I certainly don't work 10-12 on average. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145851) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:17 PM Author: hot reading party ugh i'd take $115k living in LI than $150k working 10-12 hrs/day in NYC.
i still think you should hold out for a better opportunity though. i'd say taking this job would be a lower than median outcome for a V30 corporate associate. it's not quite the pay but more the industry. i know plenty of people taking $125k in-house gigs, but they're at major entertainment studios that are considered highly desirable. i know you will be in a generalist in-house role doing all sorts of things, which is good, but i just think you're going to be competing with ex-biglaw in-house folks at way more prestigious places and people see construction firm and it's just not going to have the same cache as working somewhere else. you may have more substantive experience than the others since you're at a small company, but everyone's going to bs on their resume and play up their roles. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:21 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe I have another interview lined up with a wholesale food distributor. I think their clients are super markets like whole foods, etc. They are also public and small. Better? I like of like the industry, sounds interesting to me. Not sure about marketability, however. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145873) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:22 PM Author: Mahogany parlour psychic Pay? Hours? Generalist position? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145887) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:26 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe Job in Jersey, pay is a little higher 135k, no bonus mentioned. Not sure about hours, I haven't interviewed. I assume not materially better than the one in LI. The inhouse jobs that I have come across often requires 10 hours. FML (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145923) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:28 PM Author: Mahogany parlour psychic I assume you meant 10 years. The salary is fine, just check out working conditions, responsibilities, what your coworkers would be like. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145945) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:26 PM Author: hot reading party so like a smaller scale, more gourmet version of sysco? i think anything where there is more of an emphasis on legal issues involving distribution, marketing, and sales is more versatile. working there may make you marketable in the hospitality/restaurant industry or even consumer products which has a lot of vendor and distribution issues. i think just from the sound of it, i'd be inclined to take that one. but is that the job w/ the 10-12 hrs days? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145929) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:56 PM Author: wine passionate public bath sweet tailpipe yes, more like sysco, but they are smaller and upscale. I have been told their legal dept is small and I will work on a variety of matters, including cap markets, governance/compliance, distribution contracts, supply contracts, etc.
the one requiring 10-15 hours is in NYC with some finance firm. I hope the mini-sysco job won't be so demanding. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 6:06 PM Author: hot reading party i can't imagine mini-sysco to be even as demanding as the construction firm.
the finance firm is interesting b/c finance often has the best bonuses, and it is not unheard of to get 50-100% bonus, in which case you may be matching biglaw market salary. if you can guarantee predictable hours during the work week and no weekends, the money might be worth it. obviously 12 hours is a lot worse than 10 hrs/day so you'd have to figure out what a typical day is. i personally wouldn't take any in-house job where i would leave at 8pm regularly. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:00 PM Author: hot reading party the pre-2008 legal market was unsustainable. like those biglaw firms with 100 entering classes who had to do mass layoffs, the associates getting lucrative in-house and non-legal jobs in 2005-2006 were laid off too once the market crashed. go refresh goinhouse.com and there's maybe ~20 solid listings in a market like NYC at any point and thousands of associates competing for them. things will not come close to being like 2005-2006 for decades, if ever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145721) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:21 PM Author: Mahogany parlour psychic But that is the the conundrum for this guy. He may very well not do better. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145871) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:13 PM Author: Mahogany parlour psychic In-house the details are everything. Remember, there is no standardization and long term your experience is always what will land you your next job. That said, competitive market oversaturated with lawyers. How secure are you at your current place?
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Date: May 6th, 2013 6:02 PM Author: Balding foreskin You should definitely hold out for a better in-house job unless you are being pushed out. The average pay for an in-house lawyer without direct reports (I.e. the seniority level of a typical biglaw refugee) is over 200k. http://www.acc.com/chapters/socal/upload/2011-In-House-Counsel-Compensation-Survey_4-13-11.pdf
My department budgets 300-350k for direct BIGLAW hires these days. Granted that is tax and tax may be idiosyncratic, but it can't be so far off that anything under 200k is a reasonable outcome for a corporate lawyer at a good firm. |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 6:11 PM Author: very tactful lay how soon can one go in-house from biglaw tax? i don't want to stick around for five years, but it seems like that is the minimum. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23146187) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 7:46 PM Author: Balding foreskin I had opportunities after just 2 or 3 years, but that was in a better economy. These days, I'd say 4-5 is a realistic threshold. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23146752) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 7:56 PM Author: hot reading party the averages seem to be very high. since 1/3 of the respondents are GCs and only 21% of the entire acc membership answered, the survey is pretty self selecting. based on my own anecdotal experience interviewing and hearing about salaries from my friends, ~$125k seems the median for socal area, higher in bay area and nyc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23146814) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 8:26 PM Author: Mahogany parlour psychic Yeah, that isn't even close to representative. Plus, a lot of in-house attorneys can be very senior and not have any reports. In-house isn't usually a pyramid like biglaw. It is more like an oval on its side. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23146980) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 9:57 PM Author: Balding foreskin It's a survey. Not everyone answers surveys. They also have pay sorted by experience - for 4-9 years, base is 161k average, so with bonus would be close to 200k. And this is 2011 data, in Southern California, not a region known for paying in-house lawyers that much. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23147750) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 10:52 PM Author: Balding foreskin Why would attorneys with 4-9 years total experience responding to that survey be so highly paid relative to their peers with similar experience?
http://www.todaysgeneralcounsel.com/compensation-survey/ provides a median in-house cash comp of $257k for all levels, which is consistent with the acc survey.
My anecdotal experience is closer to http://abovethelaw.com/2013/04/in-defense-of-in-house-counsel-compensation/ and the comments, but I agree that NYC > Bay Area > SoCal in terms of comp - another reason for the op not to settle for $115k there.
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Date: May 7th, 2013 9:08 AM Author: Mahogany parlour psychic on the ATL comments thread sfinhousecounsel seems to get it right.
"The answer is in the middle. A big city (SF/DC/NYC/LA) in house counsel with 7-10 years experience will come in at mid to high 150s. The big variable is bonus and benefits, which will vary greatly by industry. Commercial banking will be on the low end, dot coms hiogher, with more money in options and bonus. But Bonus will run 20-40% of base salary at the low end, and restricted stock can run another 20-40%. SOme give options, which gives you ahuge upside, but that is rarer now after many options expired worthless in the dot com bust. 401k matching (up to 6% of salary) is common, as is subsidized medical/dental- you pay 50-200 a month single v family. No way will anyone get a pension any more.
So you'll be making in the low to mid 200s to start, working half as hard. After another 10 years, if you move up the managerial chain, you can double that. And you'll be working a 1700 hour year- which means no nights or weekends, or very few, and 6-8 weeks of vacation that you actually take. You will never make partner money, but even in a major city you can live like the 1%. Just not banking millions or maintaining multiple homes. Oh and the spouse mayu have to get a job to support the tennis club and high living. The good news is your kids will know your name. Now if you move to a GC position, then the numbers can go up dramatically, but you will be working MUCH harder for your money."
Now, the vacation at many companies isn't quite that generous right away unless you're including sick time and paid holidays. |
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Date: May 7th, 2013 2:45 PM Author: navy appetizing native liquid oxygen Anything above 25% is a sick bonus, and that high a target plus stock or other LTI is only available to people who are either managers or on the fast track to managing a team. Random IP grinder or softbatch jobs like Marcomm counsel won't ever see this. If you're making 200K in-house you're working harder than 1700/year with six weeks off. E.g. high end tech has been on a hiring binge and pays over 200K all-in for generic biglaw associates, but the hours are typically worse than 9-6. The rest is right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23151352) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 6:07 PM Author: Garnet Therapy Space nope. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23146156) |
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Date: May 7th, 2013 1:42 PM Author: Silver geriatric headpube quadroon LOL at Greetings pretending in this thread like he can roll with the real in-house folks. You should stay in Texas at your "GC" startup job. You won't be able to roll with the lawyers in NYC or DC. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23150965) |
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Date: May 7th, 2013 2:36 PM Author: Cyan adventurous voyeur greetings, the most self regarding cumskin faggot on a bort full of them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23151313) |