Would you take this in-house job?
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:23 PM Author: Dun razzle gas station
I just received an offer to go inhouse, the job is with a small public company in Long Island, legal dept is small, with only 2 other attorneys. Pay is a lowish 115k, I have been told the hours are typically 9-7, which is longer than I expected. I was hoping for 9 to 5.
I am at a v30 nyc corp, T14, ivy undergrad. Would you take this job? I am really on the fence about this one.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144100) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:29 PM Author: Cobalt Lascivious Meetinghouse Ladyboy
industry does NOT matter as much as it's being portrayed here, so long as you get broad experience, at the beginning of your in house career
i am in the tech industry in house, and i had callbacks for in house in a completely different industry not two months ago
construction in house is going to see employment, real estate, labor, contracts, govt procurement, finance, e comp, and possibly securities and shit depending on what gets thrown your way
pretty much any in house is going to want people who can do that
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144612) |
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Date: May 7th, 2013 9:12 AM Author: Vibrant locale
i am in the tech industry in house, and i had callbacks for in house in a completely different industry not two months ago
AWESOME ANECDOTE BRO
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23149872) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:36 PM Author: Maniacal clear church really tough guy
no, in-house is never 9-10 or regular weekend, this person doesn't know wtf they're talking about.
$115k is on the low side, but it's on LI so assuming you lived there, it'd at least be cheaper.
in-house salary is also always negotiable so i would push for something close toward $125k. is there a bonus component to it?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144192)
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Date: May 6th, 2013 12:43 PM Author: Maniacal clear church really tough guy
20% sounds high. maybe 10%.
i doubt this construction company has tons of well credentialed v30 corp associates begging to work for them, so i'd try to go for a $10k bonus or simply a higher salary.
i still wouldn't take the job though, as i don't think it opens doors, unless your plan is to stay there forever and take over as GC in 20 years.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144237) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 1:46 PM Author: Dun razzle gas station
No flame, I am serious.
The senior guys told me they do about 5 M&A deals a year, typically only stay late around closing. I don't know, I have never worked on M&As.
I will be taking a huge paycut, about 35% in real terms (after factoring taxes, etc). My don't exactly have issues with the money. As I mentioned, I have 2 kids, wife also works. I was hoping for more of a lifestyle change. Also I am concerned about my future marketability to other inhouse jobs. I don't want to commit professional suicide, but I do want to go in-house.
You raised another real concern as well, I don't know how much longer I have left at my firm. The thing with law firms is you are cursing yourself when it's busy, then when it slows down you suspect they are trying to shitcan your ass. It's just really stressful either way.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144718)
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:55 PM Author: Maniacal clear church really tough guy
i dont know how typical my situation is either. i have friends who are in-house at various companies and it just seems like things are not as deadline-driven as they are at a law firm and there are rarely, if any, fire drills. you can be given a contract to mark up, but if it's a complicated contract, outside counsel has already marked it up and you're just reviewing, or if it's a run of the mill contract, you have several days to look at it, not stay late to send out comments by midnight.
i report directly to the GC and he gives me projects but it's not a constant flow of stuff like it was at a law firm when i was managing my own cases and just had a constant list of things to do and partners giving me stupid unnessary projects to run up the bill.
my boss works harder than i do (working all day/on calls, etc. from around 7:30-5/5:30pm), but then he makes over $1M/year so given that he's making big firm partner comp for nowhere near the type of big firm hours/stress, it's still a great gig. i'm in finance though, so the comp is much higher than other types of in-house.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145069)
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Date: May 6th, 2013 2:39 PM Author: Cobalt Lascivious Meetinghouse Ladyboy
I usually take a 1hr lunch but no one would care if it took longer or shorter, i am in house with a tech startup, so my situation is extremely atypical for salary, hours, experience, etc.
i don't talk about money with people IRL, but based on when i've researched the lateral market, I'd say in house at an established institution can range from 85K (State Bar alert for a university jr associate counsel position recently) to probably 300-400K for GC at a big place, maybe more, dunno
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145002) |
Date: May 6th, 2013 2:19 PM Author: charismatic crawly sanctuary
no fucking way man, and you are making me depressed even presenting it as an option.
You are currently making biglaw market, right? Just keep grinding away. You're long term prospects are much better if you wait it out for a job with a larger base.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23144874) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 4:55 PM Author: Dun razzle gas station
dude, welcome to 2008-present/future, things have changed.
I just got this from a recruiter:
"The role offers a base compensation in the mid $100s plus a target all cash bonus; typical work day is approximately 10-12 hours."
Can we say SPS? I think this is worse than the job described in the OP.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145685) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:13 PM Author: beady-eyed ticket booth
could be $130-170k plus 15-20% target bonus
i have heard about nyc region inhouse jobs with base from $160-$225k. usually with about 10-20% target bonus.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145803)
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Date: May 6th, 2013 5:13 PM Author: soul-stirring public bath
In-house the details are everything. Remember, there is no standardization and long term your experience is always what will land you your next job. That said, competitive market oversaturated with lawyers. How secure are you at your current place?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23145804)
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Date: May 6th, 2013 6:02 PM Author: marvelous plaza
You should definitely hold out for a better in-house job unless you are being pushed out. The average pay for an in-house lawyer without direct reports (I.e. the seniority level of a typical biglaw refugee) is over 200k. http://www.acc.com/chapters/socal/upload/2011-In-House-Counsel-Compensation-Survey_4-13-11.pdf
My department budgets 300-350k for direct BIGLAW hires these days. Granted that is tax and tax may be idiosyncratic, but it can't be so far off that anything under 200k is a reasonable outcome for a corporate lawyer at a good firm.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23146143) |
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Date: May 6th, 2013 10:52 PM Author: marvelous plaza
Why would attorneys with 4-9 years total experience responding to that survey be so highly paid relative to their peers with similar experience?
http://www.todaysgeneralcounsel.com/compensation-survey/ provides a median in-house cash comp of $257k for all levels, which is consistent with the acc survey.
My anecdotal experience is closer to http://abovethelaw.com/2013/04/in-defense-of-in-house-counsel-compensation/ and the comments, but I agree that NYC > Bay Area > SoCal in terms of comp - another reason for the op not to settle for $115k there.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23148254)
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Date: May 7th, 2013 9:08 AM Author: soul-stirring public bath
on the ATL comments thread sfinhousecounsel seems to get it right.
"The answer is in the middle. A big city (SF/DC/NYC/LA) in house counsel with 7-10 years experience will come in at mid to high 150s. The big variable is bonus and benefits, which will vary greatly by industry. Commercial banking will be on the low end, dot coms hiogher, with more money in options and bonus. But Bonus will run 20-40% of base salary at the low end, and restricted stock can run another 20-40%. SOme give options, which gives you ahuge upside, but that is rarer now after many options expired worthless in the dot com bust. 401k matching (up to 6% of salary) is common, as is subsidized medical/dental- you pay 50-200 a month single v family. No way will anyone get a pension any more.
So you'll be making in the low to mid 200s to start, working half as hard. After another 10 years, if you move up the managerial chain, you can double that. And you'll be working a 1700 hour year- which means no nights or weekends, or very few, and 6-8 weeks of vacation that you actually take. You will never make partner money, but even in a major city you can live like the 1%. Just not banking millions or maintaining multiple homes. Oh and the spouse mayu have to get a job to support the tennis club and high living. The good news is your kids will know your name. Now if you move to a GC position, then the numbers can go up dramatically, but you will be working MUCH harder for your money."
Now, the vacation at many companies isn't quite that generous right away unless you're including sick time and paid holidays.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2248712&forum_id=2#23149864) |
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