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Would you take this in-house job? (part 2)

Job is in NJ, company is a wholesale distributor of food sup...
bubblegum  05/07/13
how the hell can't a public company see the value in bringin...
..,.,;..;...;:..;.,...;..,..:.,....  05/07/13
What would be reasonable pay for this job, w no bonus, 150? ...
bubblegum  05/07/13
Because in this market they'll got someone out of biglaw for...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/07/13
Related question: would you take this in-house job? Charlott...
pocket 8's  05/08/13
This is better than my options at this point, I will probabl...
bubblegum  05/08/13
I would say that as a 3rd year, you could probably go back t...
....,.  05/08/13
i haven't seen too many people going back to firms after inh...
bubblegum  05/08/13
I was explicitly told it was an option when I left.
....,.  05/08/13
8 to 6 for 125k? No.
;;;;;;...;;;;;..;;  05/07/13
that's what I thought
Titular Head  05/08/13
Probably depends how desperately you want to leave the sucka...
.,,.,...,,......,,.,,,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.  05/07/13
8 to 6 is suckage also. Unless his biglaw experience is a h...
;;;;;;...;;;;;..;;  05/07/13
8 to 6 is not suckage if the work is chill, he has a leisure...
.,,.,...,,......,,.,,,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.  05/07/13
9-6 or 8-5 should be the standard 8 hour day. Looks like th...
bubblegum  05/07/13
8 to 6, I count 10.
;;;;;;...;;;;;..;;  05/07/13
He assumes a 1 hour lunch.
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/07/13
That's a very valid assumption. I have worked prior to law ...
bubblegum  05/07/13
This is right, generally. In fact, on busy days I schedule...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/08/13
I've made it to the office by 8 in biglaw like 5 times in 3 ...
;;;;;;...;;;;;..;;  05/07/13
How often do you leave at 5pm though?
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/07/13
I actually leave around 6 or so quite often. There were str...
bubblegum  05/07/13
I wouldn't assume this won't happen in-house though. Not as...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/08/13
fuck, this is depressing. late night is a concern, particula...
bubblegum  05/08/13
I mean In-house varies far more than big law. But law is ful...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/08/13
obviously this differs from company to company, but i've bee...
nutella  05/08/13
From my discussion with them, it seems they use 3 firms 1 fo...
bubblegum  05/08/13
I have been very slow in recent weeks, which gives me the fe...
bubblegum  05/07/13
Bad feelings like this in biglaw are often warranted.
.,,.,...,,......,,.,,,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.  05/07/13
Wrong bro, these feelings are usually unwarranted, but I can...
bubblegum  05/07/13
depends on your firm. at some firms it's absolutely not warr...
fatpieceofshit  05/08/13
sounds shitty
......,.,.,..,....,,,,,,........,,.,..,.,..,...  05/07/13
it's shit man. If you're making elss than 150k it has to be ...
..:.;:;;::....""...;;..:;;:;;;;  05/07/13
Sounds like a good rule
bubblegum  05/07/13
I think 9 to 6 for 125k could be defend-able. But 8 to 6 wo...
;;;;;;...;;;;;..;;  05/07/13
In NYC I guess...don't know about long island.
.,,.,...,,......,,.,,,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.  05/07/13
this rule is obviously only MFH and similar cities. 100k 9-5...
..:.;:;;::....""...;;..:;;:;;;;  05/08/13
Where are you finding these high hours/low pay inhouse shitj...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/07/13
sounds like market bro. I looked up the employment agreemen...
bubblegum  05/07/13
$125k with no bonus is not great. There should be a bonus c...
....,.  05/07/13
what year are you? that job sounds awful and boring
Non sequitur  05/07/13
3rd yr
bubblegum  05/07/13
It sounds like an AGC job. Given there are 2 lawyers there,...
....,.  05/07/13
Agree w this. I think work isn't bad, but of ourse there ar...
bubblegum  05/08/13
jeez am i the only one who enjoys contract analysis think o...
..,..,.,..:,,:,..,,:::,,..,:,.;.:..:.,:,::,  05/08/13
Yeah, I'm curious to see what that guy thinks in-house attor...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/08/13
i have worked in house and at firms. you know what's an inte...
Non sequitur  05/08/13
Just be product counsel at Google, bro.
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/08/13
(guy who's never worked an interesting job in his life)
Non sequitur  05/08/13
I actually work a very interesting In-house position that I ...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/08/13
i would take this AGC job over a product counsel job. ok ma...
..,.,;..;...;:..;.,...;..,..:.,....  05/08/13
also, this is his description of jobs duties - supply con...
Non sequitur  05/08/13
You are being obnoxious here. 90% corporate In-house positio...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/08/13
you are the one telling me this is an "AGC" job an...
Non sequitur  05/08/13
Tell me about my job and background. Then tell us about your...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/08/13
lol at jr corp counsel being "dead end" yeah mayb...
..,..,.,..:,,:,..,,:::,,..,:,.;.:..:.,:,::,  05/08/13
But it isn't as cool as being a product counsel at google so...
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/08/13
How marketable do you think I will be after staying at this ...
bubblegum  05/08/13
i've interviewed for a product counsel job at google and mad...
nutella  05/08/13
Good post.
.,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.  05/08/13
i've been a lawyer for long enough to know that even that se...
nutella  05/08/13
cr. "interesting work" is boomer OCI flame. unless...
,,,,,,,,.,.........,,,,,,,,,.,.,.  05/08/13
LOL, way to cherrypick a specific job title at Google workin...
,,,,,,...,,,,.,.,.,.  05/08/13
Right. That's a commercial contracts job at Google, which i...
....,.  05/08/13
He doesn't have the job yet, so he doesn't know exactly what...
....,.  05/08/13
was told no litigation work, just manage outside firm
bubblegum  05/08/13
Got it. But that's experience managing litigation with outs...
....,.  05/08/13
Do you think AGC generalist role at small company opens up m...
bubblegum  05/08/13
I'm sorry, but I don't know. I took my role (which is simil...
....,.  05/08/13
fuck, no.
i literally only poast "thank"  05/08/13
Lol no. There are 27 year olds in NJ making that much. They ...
.,.,.,...,..,,,,...,.,,..,..,;.;,.;.  05/08/13
Your wife/gf, if any, probably daydreams about getting bum-f...
bubblegum  05/08/13
OP, any update? I also like how non sequitur got pwned in...
,,,,,,...,,,,.,.,.,.  05/15/13


Poast new message in this thread



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:12 PM
Author: bubblegum

Job is in NJ, company is a wholesale distributor of food supplies to high end supermarkets. Company is public, legal dept now consists of 1 lawyer, slightly older than my self. Pay is 125k, no bonus, hours are roughly 8-6. Was told I will be working on a variety of matters like supply contracts, confidentiality agrmt, SEC matters, M and A, and shitty stuff like contract analysis, risk management and board matters.

I am v30 corp, CCN top quarter. I am not necessarily looking to stay forever. In fact I may move to smaller low COL cities in a year (geographic flexibility in my current practice is limited, i work w structured products). I am hoping this job will open doors to other in house, low stress jobs in those markets. But I may stay, it's not clear at the moment. Take job or try to last another year in biglaw?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151504)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:33 PM
Author: ..,.,;..;...;:..;.,...;..,..:.,....

how the hell can't a public company see the value in bringing a second lawyer inhouse for more than $125k no bonus.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151635)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:35 PM
Author: bubblegum

What would be reasonable pay for this job, w no bonus, 150?



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151644)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 8:29 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

Because in this market they'll got someone out of biglaw for that or even less. Maybe it won't be V30 CCN top 1/4. But good chance they don't really need that and would be equally fine with V100, T14 top 1/2.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23153359)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 9:39 PM
Author: pocket 8's

Related question: would you take this in-house job? Charlotte, $135K, bonus up to $30K, stock options, counsel title. Very stable but somewhat boring industry. Assume Charlotte biglaw 5th year at the moment.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161266)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 9:42 PM
Author: bubblegum

This is better than my options at this point, I will probably take this, however I am just a 3rd yr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161289)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 9:45 PM
Author: ....,.

I would say that as a 3rd year, you could probably go back to your firm (or another) after a year if it turns out it was a mistake.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161311)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 9:51 PM
Author: bubblegum

i haven't seen too many people going back to firms after inhouse. perahps they generally stay inhouse.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161364)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 9:54 PM
Author: ....,.

I was explicitly told it was an option when I left.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161385)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:15 PM
Author: ;;;;;;...;;;;;..;;

8 to 6 for 125k? No.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151516)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 3:50 PM
Author: Titular Head

that's what I thought

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158821)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:17 PM
Author: .,,.,...,,......,,.,,,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.

Probably depends how desperately you want to leave the suckage of biglaw right away. If you stay for another year you will at least make some more money but I wouldn't count on it getting you better in-house offers. In fact you run the risk of not being able to get an in-house offer that is as good. Kind of a gut feeling thing at this point I think, how well did you get along with the interviewers etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151522)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:22 PM
Author: ;;;;;;...;;;;;..;;

8 to 6 is suckage also. Unless his biglaw experience is a higher than average level of suckage, he should stay.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151547)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:25 PM
Author: .,,.,...,,......,,.,,,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.

8 to 6 is not suckage if the work is chill, he has a leisurely lunch and doesn't even think about work after 6 and takes days and afternoons here and there. I don't think it really gets much better than that in the private sector unless you are lower level.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151567)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:27 PM
Author: bubblegum

9-6 or 8-5 should be the standard 8 hour day. Looks like this job requires 9 hours



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151586)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:28 PM
Author: ;;;;;;...;;;;;..;;

8 to 6, I count 10.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151589)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 8:20 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

He assumes a 1 hour lunch.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23153276)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 11:04 PM
Author: bubblegum

That's a very valid assumption. I have worked prior to law school, I take at least 1 hr lunch everyday. Everyone I know not in a law firm or ibank pretty much always take 1+ hr lunch.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23154579)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 3:26 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

This is right, generally. In fact, on busy days I schedule an hour for lunch on my Public calendar. Doesn't always work but it mostly does.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158640)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:28 PM
Author: ;;;;;;...;;;;;..;;

I've made it to the office by 8 in biglaw like 5 times in 3 years. Just sayin.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151587)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 8:20 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

How often do you leave at 5pm though?



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23153283)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 11:08 PM
Author: bubblegum

I actually leave around 6 or so quite often. There were stretches where I bill literally nothing for weeks. Those are stressful as hell, especially when I first started at the firm.

I gonna say, not knowing when you can leave on any given night is one of the biggest annoyances of biglaw. If you know for example that your work day ends at 8, at least you can look at the clock and be happy for a moment: only 2 more hours left, etc. Nothing like this exist in biglaw. You don't know when this shit is gonna end on any given night.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23154609)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 12:12 AM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

I wouldn't assume this won't happen in-house though. Not as often or for as long (I haven't had a single all nighter, for example), but plenty of times when you think 6pm but ends up 8pm.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23155182)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 8:47 AM
Author: bubblegum

fuck, this is depressing. late night is a concern, particularly when you get paid less. can you go into greater detail, how are the late nights (or expectation thereof) different from biglaw?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23156539)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 3:20 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

I mean In-house varies far more than big law. But law is full of fire drills. I still check email right before bed and first thing in the am. For me it is far better than firm life but I definitely wouldn't assume this is like the federal government but with a higher salary.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158604)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 3:48 PM
Author: nutella

obviously this differs from company to company, but i've been at my job for 8 months now and i worked until 7:30 ONCE and that was before closing a major deal in which our outside counsel worked until 3AM. there is also no expectation for reviewing/responding to email after work and on weekends.

if this is a public company, in particular, you already have outside counsel doing the Ks, Qs, and meatier SEC filings and as in-house counsel, you're doing more the oversight. i honestly can't see how you're going to have that many unexpected late nights.

the most deadline driven things in legal are deal closings, whether it's M&A or your company is trying to raise money or sell debt, etc. i just don't see this happening at a food distributor. it is not the same as being at google with an entire army of M&A lawyers buying out any marginally successful app threatening their space or being at a company that's growing rapidly and needs access to money quickly so they're doing a secondary offering (outsourced to law firm anyway). litigation is also deadline-intensive, but again, you have outside counsel for that.

this brings me to the other main factor for the hours -- how much does your company use outside counsel? we use 3 different firms for corporate, lit, and general legal advice on industry regulations/standards. i have a friend in-house at a major fashion retailer that is very cheap and doesn't use outside counsel very much and she has to take to arbitration every time a disgruntled employee at their retail store sues them for discrimination or somebody slips and falls at their store. since she is basically litigation in-house, her hours are rougher and more unpredictable. you should ask this company what is outsourced v. what stays in-house.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158811)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 9:45 PM
Author: bubblegum

From my discussion with them, it seems they use 3 firms 1 for litigation, 1 for SEC stuff and another for capital markets, etc.

They seem to do a fair amount of M&A, they seem to do these inhouse too. Senior guy told me he close about 5 deals a year. Maybe the M&As are very small and hence not worth outsourcing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161318)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:25 PM
Author: bubblegum

I have been very slow in recent weeks, which gives me the feeling that they are trying to stealth me. I don't know if that's the case, but one always get the scares in biglaw when work slows down. I think I can last another year, not desperate yet.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151571)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:42 PM
Author: .,,.,...,,......,,.,,,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.

Bad feelings like this in biglaw are often warranted.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151685)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 5:48 PM
Author: bubblegum

Wrong bro, these feelings are usually unwarranted, but I can't help it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23152375)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 8:50 AM
Author: fatpieceofshit

depends on your firm. at some firms it's absolutely not warranted and just reflects slow biz.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23156547)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:25 PM
Author: ......,.,.,..,....,,,,,,........,,.,..,.,..,...

sounds shitty

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151572)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:27 PM
Author: ..:.;:;;::....""...;;..:;;:;;;; (The D is silent, motherfucker)

it's shit man. If you're making elss than 150k it has to be 9 to 5. make that your rule

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151578)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:33 PM
Author: bubblegum

Sounds like a good rule



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151633)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:35 PM
Author: ;;;;;;...;;;;;..;;

I think 9 to 6 for 125k could be defend-able. But 8 to 6 would piss me off.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151647)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 3:42 PM
Author: .,,.,...,,......,,.,,,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.

In NYC I guess...don't know about long island.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23151686)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 12:13 AM
Author: ..:.;:;;::....""...;;..:;;:;;;; (The D is silent, motherfucker)

this rule is obviously only MFH and similar cities. 100k 9-5 in ARE COUNTRY would be sweet

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23155192)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 8:23 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

Where are you finding these high hours/low pay inhouse shitjobs? Or is that just the market right now?

Also, a places that openly says 8am-6pm every single day will probably have numerous days where you end up there 7-8pm.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23153308)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 11:09 PM
Author: bubblegum

sounds like market bro. I looked up the employment agreement of the only current lawyer at this company, the GC, he only got paid 165k when he joined the company 1 yr ago. He was a 6th yr at Paul Weiss. LOL. I can't remember if the agreement said whether he's getting bonus.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23154618)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 11:45 PM
Author: ....,.

$125k with no bonus is not great. There should be a bonus component.

That said, I don't know the company, so don't know the opportunities to leverage it. I doubt it's a dead end based on how you describe it. I took a similar role (though it's a more developed legal department in a regulated industry) so I'm hopeful it works out.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23154951)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 8:31 PM
Author: Non sequitur ( )

what year are you? that job sounds awful and boring

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23153375)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 11:09 PM
Author: bubblegum

3rd yr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23154626)



Reply

Date: May 7th, 2013 11:36 PM
Author: ....,.

It sounds like an AGC job. Given there are 2 lawyers there, he'll be handling the proxy statement, SEC filings, board meetings, corporate development, executive comp, benefits, etc.

It's as generalist and interesting as in-house gets, with as much responsibility as possible for someone his year. Most times, people his stage take this job at a big F500, but only get one segment of the business and have no interaction with the GC.

I don't understand what else you expect a corporate lawyer to do in-house (or at a law firm) that is "more interesting"? Are you even a practicing lawyer?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23154889)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 12:09 AM
Author: bubblegum

Agree w this. I think work isn't bad, but of ourse there are some crappy stuff in there like contract analysis or creating litigation binders.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23155159)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 3:44 PM
Author: ..,..,.,..:,,:,..,,:::,,..,:,.;.:..:.,:,::,

jeez am i the only one who enjoys contract analysis

think of it this way: reading one presents you with ample evidence that even 60yo lawyers at F100s SUCK BALLS and don't know how to practice law AT ALL

i can't tell you how many times I've seen Ks come in from bigger companies full of ambiguities

hell, even when we were looking at expanded office space, the form L-T agreement failed to define very basic calculations adequately ("for every 1000 feet of leasable space you get Y widgets" was a big offender)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158773)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 12:18 AM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

Yeah, I'm curious to see what that guy thinks in-house attorneys generally do.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23155218)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 3:26 PM
Author: Non sequitur ( )

i have worked in house and at firms. you know what's an interesting in house job? being product counsel for google labs and helping them figure out/mitigate the legal risks associated with self driving cars

you know what's not? what you said

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158632)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 3:28 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

Just be product counsel at Google, bro.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158654)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 3:29 PM
Author: Non sequitur ( )

(guy who's never worked an interesting job in his life)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158667)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 3:35 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

I actually work a very interesting In-house position that I would never describe on here because it is a niche practice. However, OP doesn't have the background for it and I know it, so I'm refraining from being an asshole about it and trying to be helpful. Why don't you tell us what you do? Are you even In-house?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158706)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 4:20 PM
Author: ..,.,;..;...;:..;.,...;..,..:.,....

i would take this AGC job over a product counsel job. ok maybe not one at google, but that is about as cool as it gets.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23159054)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 3:27 PM
Author: Non sequitur ( )

also, this is his description of jobs duties -

supply contracts - so basic commercial shit

confidentiality agrmt - lol

SEC matters - aka roet reporting

M and A - lol, for that one acquisition tehy will make every 3 years (edit: and which will be outsourced to a firm anyway)

and shitty stuff like contract analysis, risk management and board matters - aka, contract management, paralegal, and take notes/minutes at board meetings

it's a shitty job. xoxohth

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158644)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 3:32 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

You are being obnoxious here. 90% corporate In-house positions are mostly like what OP has been applying for. Many include more commercial contacts but otherwise same crap. Your advice to become products counsel at google or apple isn't realistic or helpful.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158682)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 3:33 PM
Author: Non sequitur ( )

you are the one telling me this is an "AGC" job and questioning whether i even practice law (or maybe some other dumbass did). my response is that i have far more legal knowledge, in house knowledge, and general work experience than you.

this is not an AGC job, it's a dead end jr corporate counsel type job. if that's what he wants, great. doesnt make it not a boring job

ur done here

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158688)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 3:39 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

Tell me about my job and background. Then tell us about yours. So far you are talking an awful lot of shit without providing any support. I wonder if this is how you work as well.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158727)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 3:47 PM
Author: ..,..,.,..:,,:,..,,:::,,..,:,.;.:..:.,:,::,

lol at jr corp counsel being "dead end"

yeah maybe if the guy plans to stay at this company and never lateral jfc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158803)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 3:53 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

But it isn't as cool as being a product counsel at google so why bother?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158846)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 7:42 PM
Author: bubblegum

How marketable do you think I will be after staying at this small company doing generalist work for a few years? It's kind of my goal to use this job as a stepping stone to other inhouse jobs.

As mentioned in the OP, my practice at law firm is highly specialized, which limits my geographic flexibility and perhaps also inhouse marketability.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23160355)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 4:06 PM
Author: nutella

i've interviewed for a product counsel job at google and made it pretty far in the process and know people who are product counsel there. it's a bit unfair to compare these 2 jobs b/c it's apples and oranges. one is a generalist position and there are no generalist positions at google. product counsel happens to be one of the more interesting legal jobs at google. meanwhile, you're going to have some corporate lawyers at google just looking at supply chain contracts. would i rather be a generalist or would i rather be an employment lawyer at google reviewing every meritless EEOC claim that comes in? hard to say.

for somebody who is interested in going up the chain in a generalistic role to ultimately become GC, it's better to have the broader exposure to various in-house areas, which is hard to gain when you're going to a large F100 company and your responsibilities are far more limited. particularly if this guy's #2 in legal, it is basically a AGC role.

in any case, i think this guy has an interesting opportunity b/c it is fairly rare to be able to be offered #2 in legal, but obviously this is just an unsexy industry with unsexy legal issues. he could definitely leverage that into an in-house position at a better company in the future though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158926)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 4:07 PM
Author: .,.,...,..,.,.,:,,:,.,.,:::,...,:,...:..:.,:.::,.

Good post.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23158939)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 4:51 PM
Author: nutella

i've been a lawyer for long enough to know that even that sexy product counsel job isn't all that it's cracked up to be. the position i applied for was product counsel for google ad products, and one responsibility was advising business people on consumer protection laws in various countries. zzzzzzzzzzz.

i mean, it's fucking legal work, i've worked on enough high profile cases (omg, bernie madoff!) to know that even the sexiest of legal work all over the newspapers is still fucking legal work and often times boring. even that guy mitigating legal risk on self-driving cars is going to have tedious tasks sometimes.

being in finance in-house, i now work on stuff that is sometimes complex and interesting (how to access a foreign market through derivative investments when direct investments are impossible), but sometimes my days are spent filling out licensing applications and making routine SEC filings. that's just the nature of legal work.

the best you can hope for is to get an in-house job that will set you up nicely, either for lateralling or staying there long-term with good potential for growth. fuck "interesting" work.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23159300)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 5:32 PM
Author: ,,,,,,,,.,.........,,,,,,,,,.,.,.

cr. "interesting work" is boomer OCI flame. unless you get some sad kick out of explaining what you do to someone who's already bored, just find something where you can handle whatever tedious tasks without wanting to killself.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23159590)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 5:53 PM
Author: ,,,,,,...,,,,.,.,.,.

LOL, way to cherrypick a specific job title at Google working on a specific product that like 2 people do.

If you're just a regular junior corporate counsel at Google, the job responsibilities are similarly boring and generic:

https://www.google.com/about/jobs/search/#!t=jo&jid=1124001&

Of course, you're paid better at Google, but that's another story. It's pretty silly to say 99% of in-house work isn't boring.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23159721)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 9:32 PM
Author: ....,.

Right. That's a commercial contracts job at Google, which is a far more common type of job, even at Google, than products counsel. And I fail to see how that type of job (other than the fact that it's Google) opens up any more opportunities than the generalist ACG role at a small public company.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161207)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 9:36 PM
Author: ....,.

He doesn't have the job yet, so he doesn't know exactly what he's going to be doing.

But he'd deal with litigation as it arises, executive compensation, employee benefits, employment agreements, shareholder matters, etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161253)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 9:43 PM
Author: bubblegum

was told no litigation work, just manage outside firm

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161300)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 9:46 PM
Author: ....,.

Got it. But that's experience managing litigation with outside counsel, which would be good to have on the resume down the road.

In your role, you'll be able to engage in these things as much as you want.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161324)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 9:50 PM
Author: bubblegum

Do you think AGC generalist role at small company opens up more inhouse opportunities (non-ibanking) than staying longer at a firm in a specialized field (structured products, etc)?

This is my key concern. I know pay is low and hours are long, I am willing to do this as long as it opens more opportunity.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161359)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 9:58 PM
Author: ....,.

I'm sorry, but I don't know. I took my role (which is similar to yours but different industry) because the previous people leveraged it into a GC gig, so I'm hoping I can do the same.

I know that when I left from Corporate at a law firm, I was giving up some in-house paths, primarily M&A-focused roles at F100 companies.

I don't know what kind of gigs specialized structured finance guys move into.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161418)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 5:55 PM
Author: i literally only poast "thank"

fuck, no.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23159736)



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Date: May 8th, 2013 9:56 PM
Author: .,.,.,...,..,,,,...,.,,..,..,;.;,.;.

Lol no. There are 27 year olds in NJ making that much. They are called state troopers and firemen.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161403)



Reply

Date: May 8th, 2013 9:59 PM
Author: bubblegum

Your wife/gf, if any, probably daydreams about getting bum-fucked by firemen or troopers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23161424)



Reply

Date: May 15th, 2013 1:13 PM
Author: ,,,,,,...,,,,.,.,.,.

OP, any update?

I also like how non sequitur got pwned in this thread with his elitism.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2249689&forum_id=2#23203357)