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The second coming of the WUSTL employment apocalypse
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:27 PM Author: Cruel-hearted Property It's like hogs to the slaughter each year. --- >So for WashU folk, looks like selections were made, and looks like I struck out. Is it really possible not to get a single interview with meh/okay grades(87-90ish), even with ironclad ties, and the top bids on a specific secondary market I know not many people have ties to? I thought there was at least a lotto. >I had a 91.5 with LR at OCI 2 years ago. I got about a dozen interviews, but I was competing against all the top 5% kids as well. This was for the random mid west markets as well, WUSTL doesn't limit bids in an effective way, everyone usually bids on everything. If you're an average white guy with no work experience or brand name undergrad, they probably will pass you over. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=212292&start=25#p6958406 >Is it true that CSO got rid of the oci lottery this year? Someone in the Midwest oci thread had grades 87-90 that didn't get a single interview? At least in the past CSO picked 6/20 slots. >Maybe that person didn't bid everywhere or only for that market (I would guess KC or something like that) or there was a flaw with the resume he uploaded or something? Also they came out rolling so maybe he checked too early? Seems odd to say the least http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=130775&start=3000#p6958984
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:29 PM Author: internet-worthy tank tattoo "We used to have some slots as lottery, hence the bid numbers. I think there was a change this year, likely to appease employers. Not a good look for the school if that person who has a 87-90, median at the least, probably top 1/3, received 0 interviews." LOL |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:35 PM Author: Vibrant Hall WUSTTTL living up to its name, finally. Wonder why people don't call it a trap school like GW or American or whatever (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705759) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:32 PM Author: cerise abusive legal warrant bloodbath a brewin'...jfc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705746) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:34 PM Author: Cruel-hearted Property What's unconscionable is that it's been this way for almost a decade, and each year it's a new surprise to the freshly-minted 2Ls who picked this shithole because a magazine gave it a rank equivalent to the age of most American gymnasts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705755) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:35 PM Author: Ivory massive area Hasn't WUSTL fallen a lot in the last few yrs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705764) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:38 PM Author: Cruel-hearted Property It dropped once and miraculously rebounded the next. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705784) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:36 PM Author: internet-worthy tank tattoo Does WUSTL game the rankings the most? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705766) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:36 PM Author: Vibrant Hall UVA (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705772) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:37 PM Author: internet-worthy tank tattoo They CRUSH in federal clerkship placement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705781) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:38 PM Author: Vibrant Hall i dont know what these words mean only that they game the rankings the most (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705786) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 9:31 PM Author: Turquoise Adulterous Weed Whacker explain how UVA games the rankings (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713470) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 9:34 PM Author: Vibrant Hall Pretty simple LSAT/GPA stuff. Get high LSAT people with shitty GPAs to ED. Easy to get good GPAs to meet median and poach whoever you need to make sure LSAT median is 171 or whatever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713498) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 9:36 PM Author: contagious pisswyrm think they also reported 100% employment one year when no other schools did, not even HYS (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713517) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 9:41 PM Author: Vibrant Hall lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713557) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 9:39 PM Author: Turquoise Adulterous Weed Whacker oh, ok..but nothing about employment stats? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713530) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 9:41 PM Author: Vibrant Hall School funded is BS but it's hard to know which jobs are legit and which aren't. Not fair to say that the entirety of the school funded jobs are garbage, to their credit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713552) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 9:44 PM Author: Turquoise Adulterous Weed Whacker They generally deserve their ranking I think, and they place reasonably well - I can forgive admissions games. Certainly they don't pull the sort of bullshit that GULC, Mich or WUSTL do every year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713579) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 10:02 PM Author: Vibrant Hall They certainly pull worse shit than GULC, imo. I don't know that Mich is gaming it up so much. Ultimately I mean, yes, I agree. They're better than Boalt and Duke but they're worse than Penn. But it's not their fault to play it how they do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713706) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 10:06 PM Author: exciting hairy legs What does Mich do? That no-LSAT program has been over for years IIRC. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713732) |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 11:55 AM Author: talented therapy pretty much the only reason Michigan stays in the T10 is because of "reputation" ratings from greatest generation-era judges and professors that make up more than a third of the score.
on virtually any quantifiable metric they are DNCG level |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 12:00 PM Author: alcoholic senate The 7-14 rankings are determined by rep scores, not whose GPA median is .03 higher or whose LSAT median is 169 instead of 170. The concept of MVP being a separate group ahead of the rest is a pure USNWR contrivance. The only thing that is certain is that GULC, while the #1 law center, is the #14 law school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23724410) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 10:13 PM Author: Cruel-hearted Property Unless UVA is outright lying, most of the jobs they're supporting are "legit." They have overwhelmingly high placement into FTLT employment. They also have relatively high school funding of those FTLT positions. But if you're employed at, say, a law firm of around 20 people who say that they can't pay for your full salary yet, or can only pay for a portion of the salary, or who only accept you by a certain start date because they can't pay you until later and expect you to still work (unless you'd like that delayed start date), then the law school funding the position is quite useful. Of course, if UVA is outright lying that the positions are not "long term" (i.e., expected to last for one year or more), then, of course, we can't rely on the data. |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 11:55 AM Author: alcoholic senate They are "lying" in that their school-funded jobs are temporary positions that they reported as full-time long-term job requiring JD, which is how they topped the list of schools that send the highest percentage of their class to full-time long-term JD-required jobs. Maybe they're not technically lying because the student can stay in the "fellowship" program for more than a year or some such technicality, but it's bullshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23724380) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 10:13 PM Author: Cruel-hearted Property This is what every adcomm is doing in this economy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713772) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:38 PM Author: Cruel-hearted Property George Mason is probably worse. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705788) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:40 PM Author: Cocky filthpig describe (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705794) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:35 PM Author: Ivory massive area I don't see why people care if there is a lottery. Just because schools force people to interview you doesn't mean they will hire you. You just get to sit through 30 interviews with people who don't want to hire you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705758) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:40 PM Author: internet-worthy tank tattoo But my personality comes across incredible in interviews! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705791) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 9:30 PM Author: Ivory massive area This may be fair if you are a busty blonde (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713464) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 10:06 PM Author: Passionate address deer antler tbf personality does matter i bombed the FUCK out of 1L interviews by being extremely academic in my approach to questions (since i almost did a math phd)*** 2L year i fucking crushed it, interviewed great, literally walked out of some interviews (politely, but like 10 mins into chat) when I knew I didn't want to job and STILL got callbacks, etc. |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:47 PM Author: razzmatazz bipolar nibblets I know of a guy who graduated from WashU with great grades and got a NLJ 250 job. Very high class rank, so it was kind of sad to see him at a non V50 type firm. Very social, cool dude.
Funny thing was that his entire life he was not very credentialed academically and just did well enough on the LSAT to get him to WashU. I guess he turned it the fuck on 1L year. |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:48 PM Author: Crawly Motley House Roommate is this school flame (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705856) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:56 PM Author: Dun Impressive Dilemma Toaster no better or worse than umn and other schools in its tier (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23705903) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 7:58 PM Author: razzmatazz bipolar nibblets Top 10-25% probably do fine, but still not as well as 10 years ago
I would genuinely be worried if I were much lower than top 25% |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 9:45 PM Author: Marvelous ruddy university gaming laptop Lol at the idea of NOT being worried because you are top 25% at WUSTTTL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713583) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 8:30 PM Author: alcoholic senate Better than UMN/W&L/Iowa, worse than the top 18 schools + GW/BC/BU/Fordham/ND, usually on par with Emory. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23706221) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 8:31 PM Author: Judgmental Exhilarant Prole Athletic Conference Not so sure they do worse than ND. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23706231) |
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Date: July 23rd, 2013 8:32 PM Author: alcoholic senate ND destroys in artIII clerkships, and even their NLJ250 firm numbers alone are generally a bit better than WUSTL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23706247) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 9:32 PM Author: Ivory massive area It's weird how objectively worse students do better sometimes. Kinda like Cornell students copping biglaw at a very high rate despite being objectively dumber than people who go to UT/Vandy/UCLA (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23713479) |
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Date: August 30th, 2014 5:35 AM Author: mentally impaired out-of-control factory reset button law is fucking retarded (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#26235680) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 2:45 AM Author: internet-worthy tank tattoo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23709063) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 11:48 AM Author: Cruel-hearted Property (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23710196) |
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Date: July 24th, 2013 9:43 PM Author: Mind-boggling sound barrier generalized bond I had seriously never heard of this dump until I looked at usnwr the year I was applying. I'm still not sure it actually exists.
WTF IS A WUSTL? |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 11:41 AM Author: Cruel-hearted Property (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23724268) |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 11:46 AM Author: Beady-eyed buck-toothed goal in life national security agency as far as xoxo obsessions go, mocking WUSTTTL is one of the most accurate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23724307) |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 11:50 AM Author: Excitant buff indian lodge lol MORE QUOTES PLEASES (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23724343) |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 12:13 PM Author: Cruel-hearted Property You'll need a little context for the delusion going on in this exchange. NLJ250 reports 16% WUSTL placement. So then comes: >In all fairness, the actual chance is probably a bit higher than this (closer to 20-25%) since 1. it doesn't include clerks, many of whom already have biglaw lined up, and 2. I'm sure that at least some people who have could have gone biglaw (or even who had an offer) chose to go somewhere else (non-nlj 250 firms and boutiques, pi, government, etc.) http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=198546&start=9900#p6958654 [This is, of course, the sort of "self-selection" myth that many buy. And WUSTL has one of the worst clerkship track records in North America, see http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=1304980&forum_id=2 ] >We probably lose 5% a year from transferring that would have gotten biglaw - We've had at least 4 people that I know of transfer out that will get biglaw. Of the ~196 we had at the start, say we lose ~6 that will get biglaw to transfers, and then we bring in 60 people from TTTT's as transfers that won't get biglaw. We'll have a class of 250 when we graduate. Considering the last class we have statistics on did ~ 27% firms 100+ or federal clerkships, and probably 20% of that class transferred in and probably the same handful of biglaw secure people transferred out, I'd say that our odds are definitely higher than 16%. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=198546&start=9900#p6958924 [Note, first, that we've moved from 16% to "20-25%" to "27%" and more. Note the double-counting logical fallacies. First, he says that the 6 they lose to transfers would have gotten BIGLAW at WUSTL regardless, which is doubtful at best; but then he assumes that if they did get BIGLAW, they would not have taken slots from those who still remained at WUSTL. Second, he says that none of the 60 incoming transfers get BIGLAW, which is also assuredly a false assumption. But that allows him to make the denominator solely students who completed 1L year at WUSTL rather than WUSTL graduates overall.] >I was a little thrown by that too at first. NLJ 250 used to be the "go to" number for biglaw chances a few years ago, but I think the number most people use on TLS as a proxy for biglaw these days is LST's firms of 100+ combined with clerkships. So it's about 26% vs. 42%, based on the c/o 2012 numbers. I'll be very interested to see what my class (2013) looks like, and then 2014. I'm a little nervous about our class since its so big, but I think 2014 and beyond will look pretty solid. The smaller class sizes will help, and I've been hearing that last fall's OCI was a lot better than our OCI. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=198546&start=9900#p6960550 [Here, Romo the Loser insists that the number is 26%, not 16%, and that in the previous year it was 42%, further inflating WUSTL's employment prospects and conflating a previous year's TLS-related metric (42) with the current year's NLJ250 metric (16). And yet, he's still "nervous"? WHY BE NERVOUS!] >I wonder if they'll start reporting people at NLJ 350 now. That is all of the biggest firms down to 112 attorneys, so not too far off the 100+ measure. NLJ 250 goes down to 160. >Even for what it purports to do, NLJ250 is not very reliable. There are entire firms inexplicably absent (including NYC firms with 50-100 SAs), and some of the firms that are represented are inaccurately reported (per people from those firms). There was quite a bit of discussion about it in the NLJ 250 thread from last year, and folks were really surprised at how bad the data was. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=198546&start=9900#p6962244 [Here, Romo the Loser and another begin to UNSKEW THE NLJ. First, the NLJ sample size is too small: even though the next 100 NLJ firms are, by definition, dramatically smaller and hire dramatically fewer associates than the NLJ250, the insist that it must be materially different. Second, Romo alleges that the data is bad, see TLS DATA MASTERMEN who've exposed the NLJ for the fraud that it must be.] |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 12:17 PM Author: Excitant buff indian lodge "and then we bring in 60 people from TTTT's as transfers that won't get biglaw"
LOL |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 12:21 PM Author: alcoholic senate ty brother. Although, with the NLJ 250, every year there are some firms that apparently don't report, so they are slightly understated. A better alternative might be taking the "firms of 250+" number from LST (because this is roughly where the NLJ 250 cuts off, anyway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23724598) |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 9:12 PM Author: internet-worthy tank tattoo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23728322) |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 9:24 PM Author: vigorous associate cuck (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23728369) |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 9:37 PM Author: Cruel-hearted Property Someone share this on TLS. For those unfamiliar with the origin story: http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=1105709&forum_id=2 |
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Date: July 26th, 2013 11:59 PM Author: titillating shitlib public bath DO THE WUSTL! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#23729790) |
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Date: August 30th, 2014 5:33 AM Author: Orchid Electric Furnace Market where was original thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#26235676) |
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Date: August 30th, 2014 5:46 AM Author: seedy nursing home http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=1105709&forum_id=2 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#26235718) |
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Date: August 30th, 2014 5:46 AM Author: Orchid Electric Furnace Market ty cutie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#26235719) |
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Date: February 23rd, 2015 4:12 PM Author: Mint Supple Partner Foreskin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#27377442) |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 3:17 PM Author: Mahogany Mental Disorder Principal's Office Did this shit get better this year? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#27383343) |
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Date: October 9th, 2016 9:03 PM Author: talking church building cumskin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#31600266) |
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Date: July 29th, 2019 6:41 AM Author: Chrome trip dog poop abode (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2319168&forum_id=2#38604487) |