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I am too slow for biglaw lit

I'm a junior lit/white collar associate and get frequent uns...
beady-eyed therapy marketing idea
  08/08/13
shitlaw
chest-beating jew area
  08/08/13
wrong. pondering over stuff and crafting excellent briefs/ar...
multi-colored sweet tailpipe
  08/09/13
Same here bro. I just like to leisurely think about shit. I'...
violet vengeful laser beams shrine
  08/08/13
This is relevant to my anxieties
mint mad cow disease
  08/08/13
lol
chest-beating jew area
  08/08/13
...
Hairraiser Theatre
  12/21/14
This is really how everyone is. Just gotta deal with it.
Copper Sanctuary
  08/08/13
explain plz.
beady-eyed therapy marketing idea
  08/08/13
He means you're not good. You're not. Your stuff is good if ...
pale angry orchestra pit
  08/09/13
Holy shit, devastating and not flame
Arrogant comical candlestick maker
  08/09/13
titcr. cats need to settle for "good enough". on...
Domesticated odious church building useless brakes
  08/09/13
Not really. My problem has alwayts been the exact opposite. ...
lime cocky quadroon
  08/09/13
This is totally normal. Biglaw sucks and there is no way aro...
swollen locale
  08/08/13
Fair enough but some clearly handle it better than others an...
beady-eyed therapy marketing idea
  08/08/13
Sounds like you have ADHD to me!
racy citrine hall
  08/08/13
adderrall really is cr here
cerise set
  12/21/14
glad I'm not alone in my suckage
Mind-boggling Fluffy University
  08/08/13
Ok so point taken my situation isn't all that unique. What t...
beady-eyed therapy marketing idea
  08/09/13
What kind of shitty are you talking about? Example: Getting ...
beta charismatic halford
  08/09/13
I almost always nail the legal standards. When I have to rus...
beady-eyed therapy marketing idea
  08/09/13
you either know the law so well beforehand that you know exa...
Elite vigorous pit place of business
  08/09/13
I suppose I just hate criticism of my work and am a perfecti...
beady-eyed therapy marketing idea
  08/09/13
LOL at junior litigation work being stressful or having dema...
Very tactful frozen theater really tough guy
  08/09/13
lol corp isn't law. it's being an i-bankers bitch. only liti...
pea-brained filthpig
  08/09/13
lol at corp being law.
pale angry orchestra pit
  08/09/13
Not sure why anyone cares what you consider it to be? It's ...
Very tactful frozen theater really tough guy
  08/09/13
just offer securities / solicit shareholder votes in a publi...
aquamarine forum
  08/09/13
Guys at my high school did it all the time, it was NBD
Obsidian bateful wrinkle
  08/09/13
P R O TIP: Squat.
beta charismatic halford
  08/09/13
How slow are you? Like starting from scratch, how long would...
Histrionic know-it-all athletic conference azn
  08/09/13
This would probably take me a few months.
180 demanding alpha kitty
  08/09/13
hahahahahahahahaha
talking hairy legs trust fund
  08/09/13
I mean, it might only be 20 hours of actual work, but it wou...
180 demanding alpha kitty
  08/09/13
sure. 20 hours of actual work, 50+ hours of billable work, 3...
talking hairy legs trust fund
  08/09/13
If by starting from scratch you mean absolutely no research ...
beady-eyed therapy marketing idea
  08/09/13
Being slow is a significant problem. My experience is that ...
lime cocky quadroon
  08/09/13
what if i am 'slow' because i 'don't do anything'
talking hairy legs trust fund
  08/09/13
Elaborate on how it's a significant problem. I thought the w...
spectacular indian lodge
  08/09/13
When your litigation team is facing a deadline and you can't...
lime cocky quadroon
  08/09/13
Describe what a typical fast turnaround looks like? Are we t...
spectacular indian lodge
  08/09/13
I don't know that there is "typical" work. Litiga...
lime cocky quadroon
  08/09/13
Holy shit. What year (or range) are you? There's no way I co...
spectacular indian lodge
  08/09/13
21 pages in a night is fairly heroic, but bear in mind that ...
talking hairy legs trust fund
  08/09/13
Other than the basic four-part test bullshit legal standard ...
lime cocky quadroon
  08/09/13
cot damn brother, that's well done
talking hairy legs trust fund
  08/09/13
I guess. And today I'm doing jack shit. I'll probably bill...
lime cocky quadroon
  08/09/13
6th yr. But I was doing this shit as a 2nd yr.
lime cocky quadroon
  08/09/13
Was it stressful or just another day in the office?
spectacular indian lodge
  08/09/13
I have always been a cram studier, so I don't usually get to...
lime cocky quadroon
  08/09/13
LSAT? School range? Vault range? Has your speed improved ...
spectacular indian lodge
  08/09/13
168. Made top 20% LR at one of the better non t14 schools. ...
beady-eyed therapy marketing idea
  08/09/13
become a federal judge or academic
Crawly bull headed son of senegal field
  08/09/13
megaposting will hone your mind like a blade
at-the-ready plaza sneaky criminal
  12/21/14
career clerk/slow-paced fed job some other practice group r...
claret swashbuckling psychic
  12/21/14
if you like your job and the pay check that you are receivin...
Diverse stain
  12/21/14


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: August 8th, 2013 3:37 PM
Author: beady-eyed therapy marketing idea

I'm a junior lit/white collar associate and get frequent unsolicited praise for my research and writing skills. Problem: I am slow as shit in understanding law, absorbing how different pieces interlock, applying facts, and crafting exactly what I want to say. When the stars align and I have had plenty of time, I am told my briefs and memos are way ahead of my peers.

I ABSOLUTELY FUCKING SUCK at being organized, managing my time, and juggling multiple matters and expectations, and feel like I constantly annoy partners, senior associates by saying I can't get things done more quickly or worse, turn in something shitty when I have no time. I need my sleep at night, and after 18 months of stress feel demoralized. Where the hell would I go after this?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23803223)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 8th, 2013 3:38 PM
Author: chest-beating jew area

shitlaw

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23803231)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 9:24 PM
Author: multi-colored sweet tailpipe

wrong. pondering over stuff and crafting excellent briefs/arguments is what is not needed in shitlaw.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23811566)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 8th, 2013 3:38 PM
Author: violet vengeful laser beams shrine

Same here bro. I just like to leisurely think about shit. I'm not focused enough to plow through a huge workload.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23803230)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 8th, 2013 3:39 PM
Author: mint mad cow disease

This is relevant to my anxieties

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23803234)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 8th, 2013 3:39 PM
Author: chest-beating jew area

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23803238)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2014 1:46 PM
Author: Hairraiser Theatre



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#26974479)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 8th, 2013 3:41 PM
Author: Copper Sanctuary

This is really how everyone is. Just gotta deal with it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23803245)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 8th, 2013 3:44 PM
Author: beady-eyed therapy marketing idea

explain plz.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23803254)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:14 PM
Author: pale angry orchestra pit

He means you're not good. You're not. Your stuff is good if you take your time--big deal. That's not how life works. to be of value, you need to make people money. This isn't a contest to become the next James Madison-quality writer. It's to be able to churn out a good enough work product in a short period of time. You can't do that apparently.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809128)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:23 PM
Author: Arrogant comical candlestick maker

Holy shit, devastating and not flame

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809173)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 8:15 PM
Author: Domesticated odious church building useless brakes

titcr. cats need to settle for "good enough". once you can identify "good enough", you're golden. That take time ironically enough.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23811205)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:21 PM
Author: lime cocky quadroon

Not really. My problem has alwayts been the exact opposite. I'm fast as shit at writing and research, but occasionally get sloppy. Both are problems.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809164)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 8th, 2013 4:12 PM
Author: swollen locale

This is totally normal. Biglaw sucks and there is no way around it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23803352)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 8th, 2013 4:26 PM
Author: beady-eyed therapy marketing idea

Fair enough but some clearly handle it better than others and I don't see other associates as visibly stressed all the time as me.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23803415)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 8th, 2013 4:19 PM
Author: racy citrine hall

Sounds like you have ADHD to me!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23803378)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2014 1:55 PM
Author: cerise set

adderrall really is cr here

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#26974517)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 8th, 2013 4:28 PM
Author: Mind-boggling Fluffy University

glad I'm not alone in my suckage

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23803424)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 1:46 PM
Author: beady-eyed therapy marketing idea

Ok so point taken my situation isn't all that unique. What types of litigation exit ops are a good fit for someone like me?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23808621)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 1:50 PM
Author: beta charismatic halford

What kind of shitty are you talking about? Example: Getting the law wrong? Not providing enough clarity? Not taking a strong enough stance?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23808644)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 1:57 PM
Author: beady-eyed therapy marketing idea

I almost always nail the legal standards. When I have to rush I sometimes overlook key distinguishing facts in our situation or in the cases I read. Also find it really hard to translate my findings into concrete practical recommendations. Also I instinctively don't give a shit about typos and those show up when I rush.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23808682)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 2:00 PM
Author: Elite vigorous pit place of business

you either know the law so well beforehand that you know exactly what you are going to say where to look

or you just have to sacrifice some quality for efficiency for the time being until you have enough experience

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23808704)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 2:04 PM
Author: beady-eyed therapy marketing idea

I suppose I just hate criticism of my work and am a perfectionist. Problem is I let it become a liability instead of an asset.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23808725)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:00 PM
Author: Very tactful frozen theater really tough guy

LOL at junior litigation work being stressful or having demanding deadlines. You'd be crying at your desk daily if you were doing corp or fin.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809044)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:11 PM
Author: pea-brained filthpig

lol corp isn't law. it's being an i-bankers bitch. only litigation is respected as law. if you aren't doing jury trials or appeals you're not doing shit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809114)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:16 PM
Author: pale angry orchestra pit

lol at corp being law.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809139)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:39 PM
Author: Very tactful frozen theater really tough guy

Not sure why anyone cares what you consider it to be? It's higher value work than litigation.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809286)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:46 PM
Author: aquamarine forum

just offer securities / solicit shareholder votes in a public merger without knowing '33 and '34 Acts, bro

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809323)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:52 PM
Author: Obsidian bateful wrinkle

Guys at my high school did it all the time, it was NBD

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809376)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:00 PM
Author: beta charismatic halford

P R O TIP: Squat.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809047)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:03 PM
Author: Histrionic know-it-all athletic conference azn

How slow are you? Like starting from scratch, how long would it take you to crank out a highly polished 20 page brief on an extremely complicated issue?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809064)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:16 PM
Author: 180 demanding alpha kitty

This would probably take me a few months.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809136)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:19 PM
Author: talking hairy legs trust fund

hahahahahahahahaha

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809155)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:49 PM
Author: 180 demanding alpha kitty

I mean, it might only be 20 hours of actual work, but it would take me months to accumulate those 20 hours in between posting and managing my fantasy sports teams.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809346)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:52 PM
Author: talking hairy legs trust fund

sure. 20 hours of actual work, 50+ hours of billable work, 3 months to complete. seems like the typical lit assignment.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809373)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 6:39 PM
Author: beady-eyed therapy marketing idea

If by starting from scratch you mean absolutely no research on an unfamiliar area of law, It would probably take me 8-10 working days (ideally)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23810551)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:19 PM
Author: lime cocky quadroon

Being slow is a significant problem. My experience is that most slow associates are just really anxious and spend most of their time torturing their writing. Even that can be a problem that sinks someone's long term prospects. But if you're also slow at understanding concepts, chances are you're just not that bright.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809150)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:20 PM
Author: talking hairy legs trust fund

what if i am 'slow' because i 'don't do anything'

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809158)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:23 PM
Author: spectacular indian lodge

Elaborate on how it's a significant problem. I thought the whole point was to be as inefficient as possible.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809174)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:25 PM
Author: lime cocky quadroon

When your litigation team is facing a deadline and you can't be counted on to turn around something quickly, someone else is going to get that work. You'll become the "discovery expert" of your team, which is code for "the guy who we stick with the scut work because he can't be counted on to do anything more".

It is about 99% myth that partners encourage people to milk their hours. And even when that does happen, it's all fine and good until suddenly shit needs to get done NOW. Then it's all about who can produce the goods. IMO, there is SIGNIFICANTLY more value in someone who can produce B+ quality work very quickly than someone who can produce A-level work but needs forever and a half to do it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809198)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:28 PM
Author: spectacular indian lodge

Describe what a typical fast turnaround looks like? Are we talking 20 pages on a complicated topic in a week? Are people really too slow even if they put in the requisite all-nighters, if necessary?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809213)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:32 PM
Author: lime cocky quadroon

I don't know that there is "typical" work. Litigation covers a broad array of shit. But just yesterday I banged out a 21-page TRO filing on a fairly complex set of issues (organization was tricky, the legal issues themselves were middle of the road). We learned about the issue first thing yesterday morning. I started writing at noon. I was done by about midnight (I also went home, had dinner, put my kids to bed, and watched a little tv in the middle). We filed 2 hours ago.

I happen to work in a practice area where I get a lot of super tight deadlines. I basically picked what I do for exactly that reason, because it fits my strengths and tends to be somewhat forgiving of my weaknesses. But this kind of thing isn't unheard of in most areas of lit, even if the stereotypical biglaw lit case is some slow-moving behemoth class action.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809236)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:43 PM
Author: spectacular indian lodge

Holy shit. What year (or range) are you? There's no way I could do something like that. Ever.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809302)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:45 PM
Author: talking hairy legs trust fund

21 pages in a night is fairly heroic, but bear in mind that original legal research and writing likely represented only some small fraction of that

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809311)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:49 PM
Author: lime cocky quadroon

Other than the basic four-part test bullshit legal standard section, every word of it was original. At least 15 pages worth. It wasn't a research heavy brief, and I had a junior associate helping me with a piece of the research.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809343)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:51 PM
Author: talking hairy legs trust fund

cot damn brother, that's well done

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809364)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:58 PM
Author: lime cocky quadroon

I guess. And today I'm doing jack shit. I'll probably bill 4 hours, meaning that my 2-day total will be like 17 hours, which implies to someone who doesn't know me that I just logged two average days.

This is the difference between me and the 2800+ hour strivers. They somehow convince themselves to endure being slammed day after day.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809416)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:49 PM
Author: lime cocky quadroon

6th yr. But I was doing this shit as a 2nd yr.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809348)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:56 PM
Author: spectacular indian lodge

Was it stressful or just another day in the office?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809407)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:59 PM
Author: lime cocky quadroon

I have always been a cram studier, so I don't usually get too "stressed" about facing a tight deadline, but it was certainly taxing. As I just said above, I'm pretty good and fried today. Not doing very much. Will probably go home sometime in the next 45 minutes. Told my kid I'd take her to get ice cream.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809421)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 3:24 PM
Author: spectacular indian lodge

LSAT? School range? Vault range?

Has your speed improved at all in 18 months?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23809186)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 6:36 PM
Author: beady-eyed therapy marketing idea

168. Made top 20% LR at one of the better non t14 schools. Yes I have gotten faster, but the responsibilities are also more.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23810522)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 9th, 2013 9:25 PM
Author: Crawly bull headed son of senegal field

become a federal judge or academic

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#23811576)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2014 1:57 PM
Author: at-the-ready plaza sneaky criminal

megaposting will hone your mind like a blade

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#26974528)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2014 2:14 PM
Author: claret swashbuckling psychic

career clerk/slow-paced fed job

some other practice group requiring deeper analysis on a longer timeframe (i have no fucking clue which groups these are, only that u should stay away from bankruptcy lit / TROs)

if u can't do that, befriend another associate who has complementary skills. i'm decent at blitzing out briefs/fast research and hitting the broad themes, but will occasionally miss some details. i actively try to work with associates who may be slow as fuck but like to wordsmith and obsess over checking stuff.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#26974605)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2014 2:43 PM
Author: Diverse stain

if you like your job and the pay check that you are receiving, my advice to you is to hurry the fuck up.

if you are aware of the issue, it is extremely likely that your supervisors are too. I'm working with a 1-3 year lit associate who is essentially you. two partners have already come to talk to me about this person individually. the general premise is that "Associate X" does great work, but he/she is too damn slow and bills way too much. they are looking to bump this person from the lit team(s).

at this stage, I have invested a ton of time into training associate x, and advocated very strongly for his/her continued inclusion. still, this person continues to move too slowly, and it's looking like it's only a matter of time.

think of it this way: you are not in biglaw to show the world just how special / brilliant you really are. you are there to do a job, and the people you are working for are running a business. they do *not* like writing off time, or otherwise explaining to the GC why you are on the case.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2331712&forum_id=2#26974800)